BajaNomad

Spectator identified at Baja 500

Ken Cooke - 6-1-2013 at 09:18 PM

The spectator was identified who died this morning due to injuries sustained after being hit by a vehicle participating in the Baja 500 off-road race.

The Municipal Police report indicated that the victim was identified as Jorge Armando Vital Files, 39. A minor named Marco Antonio "N", 11, was injured.


Ken Cooke - 6-1-2013 at 09:23 PM




[Edited on 6-2-2013 by Ken Cooke]

bajadogs - 6-1-2013 at 09:26 PM

Some day this has to stop. Disgusting.

Frank - 6-1-2013 at 09:35 PM

I thought I saw someone get hit on the video DK posted. On edit...I was wrong, it was a motorcycle rider who split between to spectators.

[Edited on 6-2-2013 by Frank]

Ken Cooke - 6-1-2013 at 09:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajadogs
Some day this has to stop. Disgusting.


This will take extra volunteers to keep spectators away from sections of the race course where accidents such as this one have a higher probability of happening. I have not read anything in the English-speaking media about this - yet.

Bajaboy - 6-1-2013 at 09:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by bajadogs
Some day this has to stop. Disgusting.


This will take extra volunteers to keep spectators away from sections of the race course where accidents such as this one have a higher probability of happening. I have not read anything in the English-speaking media about this - yet.


Volunteers or just let Darwin figure it out
:(

bajadogs - 6-1-2013 at 10:02 PM

By the time it gets regulated for safety you may as well race in the US. The glory is gone. Disgusting.

Barry A. - 6-1-2013 at 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by bajadogs
Some day this has to stop. Disgusting.


This will take extra volunteers to keep spectators away from sections of the race course where accidents such as this one have a higher probability of happening. I have not read anything in the English-speaking media about this - yet.


Volunteers or just let Darwin figure it out

:(


Exactly!!!! There are consequences for our actions-------who in their right mind would be in a position to be runover by a race car unless they really did not care much what happened as long as they got that thrill??

Barry

mtgoat666 - 6-1-2013 at 10:09 PM

Darwinism ridding the knucklehead and knuckle dagger genes from the pool, it's all good!

bajadogs - 6-1-2013 at 10:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Darwinism ridding the knucklehead and knuckle dagger genes from the pool, it's all good!


BS - I don't think "it's all good" that a Mexican bystander was crushed by a Baja 500 racer.

Disgusting!

Ken Cooke - 6-1-2013 at 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajadogs
By the time it gets regulated for safety you may as well race in the US. The glory is gone. Disgusting.


Disgusting? Only in the more populous sections of the race course would this need to be regulated for safety.

Ateo - 6-1-2013 at 10:28 PM

It's never good to see someone die. That could've been........anyone or someone's kid........who knows??

Best to promote safety, and I saw a ton of that on the race course today.

This is a dangerous race for sure.

[Edited on 6-2-2013 by Ateo]

bajadogs - 6-1-2013 at 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by bajadogs
By the time it gets regulated for safety you may as well race in the US. The glory is gone. Disgusting.


Disgusting? Only in the more populous sections of the race course would this need to be regulated for safety.


How would the sponsors go about that?
It will happen again and again.
Disgusting. Again and again.

Ken Cooke - 6-1-2013 at 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajadogs
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by bajadogs
By the time it gets regulated for safety you may as well race in the US. The glory is gone. Disgusting.


Disgusting? Only in the more populous sections of the race course would this need to be regulated for safety.


How would the sponsors go about that?
It will happen again and again.
Disgusting. Again and again.


For starters, SCORE could hire volunteers (preferably from the local communities) to ask spectators to stay a safe distance from certain turns, etc. I know how hard it is to police events - I helped run a Jeep club once.

Bajaboy - 6-1-2013 at 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by bajadogs
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by bajadogs
By the time it gets regulated for safety you may as well race in the US. The glory is gone. Disgusting.


Disgusting? Only in the more populous sections of the race course would this need to be regulated for safety.


How would the sponsors go about that?
It will happen again and again.
Disgusting. Again and again.


For starters, SCORE could hire volunteers (preferably from the local communities) to ask spectators to stay a safe distance from certain turns, etc. I know how hard it is to police events - I helped run a Jeep club once.


You don't hire volunteers:?:

Ken Cooke - 6-1-2013 at 10:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy

You don't hire volunteers:?:


You don't??? :?:

Volunteers in Parks

Bob H - 6-2-2013 at 08:34 AM

How sad.... and disgusting

[Edited on 6-2-2013 by Bob H]

David K - 6-2-2013 at 08:38 AM

Death sucks... and none of us can avoid it. The only question is when. Hopefully we have some choice in that and rather it be to avoid danger or enjoy danger, it is a choice we can make.

rts551 - 6-2-2013 at 09:03 AM

Sad....but I don't get the disgusting part.

The most dangerous part of our racing has been watching out for spectators (and what they do). Some do stupid things, to include endangering the racer. Over the course of a desert race, policing spectators is impossible to do. In the most crowded area and where traffic is a concern, policing (police or volunteers) does occur.

I hate to see this kind of thing happen, as the sport, not the spectator gets the black eye. Same happens in many sports, sad...but disgusting?

Barry A. - 6-2-2013 at 09:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Death sucks... and none of us can avoid it. The only question is when. Hopefully we have some choice in that and rather it be to avoid danger or enjoy danger, it is a choice we can make.


Well stated, David. I wish I had said that. :light:

I think we all remember the Race trajedy near Barstow a few years ago when many were killed and injured---------and the blow-back against the Race Sponsors from the people in general--------Races are dangerous, and even more so when you choose to stand or sit near the race-course, a personal choice.

Our hearts go out to the relatives and friends of these death and injuries in the Baja 500, and elsewhere-----THEY are the real victims I am thinking. My son, my son-in-law, and my brother-in-law were there at that race (one of them a racer--Brady Turner) and I worry constantly until it is over. I still have no feedback from them.

Barry

BajaRat - 6-2-2013 at 09:50 AM

The race is the super bowl of Baja California and every one knows whats going on. It's Thrilling to some of us and most people are hyper vigilant on the days surrounding the event. I doubt this person was on a tortilla run and had been caught off guard by the race, more likely a spectator that just HAD to be that close....... to death in this case and luring minors into a false sense of security. The fact is some people have a disregard for racers, bystanders and their own lives and THATS DISGUSTING Dogs.

P.S. If you don't like swimming stay out of the water........... some of us love it ! :cool:

[Edited on 6-2-2013 by BajaRat]

DianaT - 6-2-2013 at 10:21 AM

I am not a fan of offroad racing for lots of reasons, but we have many friends both gringo and Mexican who love it and it would be impossible to police the entire course; it just won't happen and there will continue to be accidents.

Over and over we have seen spectators not being careful and taking very dangerous risks, and we have seen drivers engaged in very unsafe driving especially in Ensenada.

There are problems on both sides that do not include everyone involved.

So very sad for the family and friends.

BajaBlanca - 6-2-2013 at 10:45 AM

RIP

rts551 - 6-2-2013 at 11:18 AM

by Elizabeth Vargas

A viewer of the Baja 500 that is not identified died this day after being hit and killed by one of the cars of race cars in the BAJA 500 yesterday.
Besides the adult injured an 8-year-old relative of the deceased was not.
The crash site is out of the Colonia Popular 89, where shortly before a dangerous curve where the accident occurred, the retaining wall had been moved by one of the cars.
Also others had skidded, despite which, keep spectators away from protected areas invaded the area crossed by the race cars which led to the tragedy.
The race car driver named Kevin Price (1610), from San Jose California, was arrested while they undertake the necessary inquiries.

Correcamino - 6-2-2013 at 11:39 AM

Here's a story from La Voz de la Frontera, June 2 (today).

http://www.oem.com.mx/lavozdelafrontera/notas/n3004526.htm

Writer doesn't seem to have a real up-beat attitude about race safety in general or the incident in particular - like the fact that landowner's grandma had to move because of the annual danger.

Races

J.P. - 6-2-2013 at 11:48 AM

I am neither a Fan Nor a Foe of the races, For the most part the core bunch of the racers seem to be well organized and well financed. The trouble lies with the Wannabe's from both sides of the border Racing around in their Hatchet Job trucks and cars with no respect for the law or safety of the general public.trying to appear as part of the event.
If you watch the races in the rest of the world even in the State's with all the Engineering and Safety percaution's in place Spectators get killed and Injured .

vgabndo - 6-2-2013 at 12:06 PM

Life is already dirt cheap in much of the world. In my grand daughter's life time sea level rise will displace 150 million people around the Indian sub-continent alone. I predict that life will get cheaper and cheaper. Blood sport seems to be on the rise. In America we can make a good judgement about a person's race by the type of weapon used to murder them! (Handguns for blacks, semi-auto long guns for hispanics, and shotguns for whites: FBI)
Life is cheap, and half of all Americans believe they are going to rapture before they would naturally die. (Pew)

Is Mexico much different? Will the family wail in shame that they didn't teach their kids not to play in race traffic, or simply sob Vaya con Dios. They will suffer. I'm sorry for that.

I think there are sociological reasons behind people watching a race from the outside of a curve. I think Dawkins would agree that the reptilian brain ( and we all have at least one of those) KNOWS better than to fight a fast moving car. This may not be explained by any crude form of Darwinianism.

I judge that conspicuous consumption is rare in the Mexican culture, and when it comes to a dirt road near them...

like moths to a flame they come, and with predictable results.

[Edited on 6-2-2013 by vgabndo]

Barry A. - 6-2-2013 at 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Life is cheap, and half of all Americans believe they are going to rapture before they would naturally die. (Pew)



"rapture"--------the state of being carried away with joy or love

Please explain your "Pew" reference above---------I would hope that ALL people would experience "rapture" many times "before they die". How is this connected to why people would risk everything to be in obvious harms way? Is it THAT exciting??

Personally, when I have watched a desert race, I am constantly horrified that somebody is going to crash right in front of me. I don't go to the races anymore because of this fear.

Barry

Ateo - 6-2-2013 at 12:42 PM

I think he's referring to a Pew Study, not a smelling pew. =)
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Life is cheap, and half of all Americans believe they are going to rapture before they would naturally die. (Pew)



"rapture"--------the state of being carried away with joy or love

Please explain your "Pew" reference above---------I would hope that ALL people would experience "rapture" many times "before they die". How is this connected to why people would risk everything to be in obvious harms way? Is it THAT exciting??

Personally, when I have watched a desert race, I am constantly horrified that somebody is going to crash right in front of me. I don't go to the races anymore because of this fear.

Barry

Correcamino - 6-2-2013 at 12:47 PM

It seems these tragic accidents are - and always will be - part of off-road racing unless they decide to change drastically the way it looks - US or MX. Don't know if the fans would tolerate it. Here's an article about a VERY serious accident from 2010 here in SoCal. Eight killed.

Off-road Racing Accident Kills 8

This video of that horrible mishap gives you general idea of the "Road Warrior" atmosphere. Note spectators attempting to self-police and regulate over-enthusiastic/drunk fans (with little success).

Ateo - 6-2-2013 at 01:17 PM

I would NEVER stand that close, even after 4 beers.

Much Ado

MrBillM - 6-2-2013 at 01:47 PM

About Not Much.

The spectators KNOW (or certainly Should know) the risk.

Life goes on.

Minus One.

Slash X Cafe Memorial

Ken Cooke - 6-3-2013 at 06:52 PM

woody with a view - 6-3-2013 at 07:21 PM

it's their race, let them cheer! sometimes chiite happens on the OUTSIDE of a turn....

Bajaboy has it right. it sucks that a guy died.

liknbaja127 - 6-3-2013 at 07:50 PM

Hate to see this, but going to be very hard to police, most the people
love it down there. we watch the same thing last sept. in San Quitin.
there were flag men at the crossing, but the people would not listen!
very sorry for the family

mtgoat666 - 6-3-2013 at 08:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by liknbaja127
Hate to see this, but going to be very hard to police, most the people
love it down there. we watch the same thing last sept. in San Quitin.
there were flag men at the crossing, but the people would not listen!
very sorry for the family


Seems to me the promoters (and racers) are responsible. Or is that why they (gringos) run races in Mexico, because in USA people are held responsible for their intentional or unintentional actions and in Mexico you are allowed to man slaughter with little or no penalty?:?:

P.s. are gringos promoters immune from liability in USA courts if they create and advertise the races from their homes in USA? How do promoters get insurance for these events? Seems with a death rate of 1 to 2 people per year or per race they would be uninsurable, eh?

[Edited on 6-4-2013 by mtgoat666]

Bajaboy - 6-3-2013 at 09:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by liknbaja127
Hate to see this, but going to be very hard to police, most the people
love it down there. we watch the same thing last sept. in San Quitin.
there were flag men at the crossing, but the people would not listen!
very sorry for the family


Seems to me the promoters (and racers) are responsible. Or is that why they (gringos) run races in Mexico, because in USA people are held responsible for their intentional or unintentional actions and in Mexico you are allowed to man slaughter with little or no penalty?:?:

P.s. are gringos promoters immune from liability in USA courts if they create and advertise the races from their homes in USA? How do promoters get insurance for these events? Seems with a death rate of 1 to 2 people per year or per race they would be uninsurable, eh?

[Edited on 6-4-2013 by mtgoat666]


man slaughter...you're really reaching...like for your ankles

Ken Cooke - 6-3-2013 at 09:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

Seems to me the promoters (and racers) are responsible. Or is that why they (gringos) run races in Mexico, because in USA people are held responsible for their intentional or unintentional actions and in Mexico you are allowed to man slaughter with little or no penalty?:?:

P.s. are gringos promoters immune from liability in USA courts if they create and advertise the races from their homes in USA? How do promoters get insurance for these events? Seems with a death rate of 1 to 2 people per year or per race they would be uninsurable, eh?

[Edited on 6-4-2013 by mtgoat666]


SCORE runs only races in Mexico - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Score_international

Individual racers purchase insurance, and the event has an insurance policy applicable in Mexican territories.

People do Dumb Things

MrBillM - 6-3-2013 at 10:07 PM

And (sometimes) Die.

Even up in El Norte.

There were some fans killed at a race just a few years back up in Johnson Valley when a car went off-course.

Stuff happens.

Out on Highway 62, we lose a pedestrian now and then who fails the Darwin test.

And, of course, the Usual Suspects respond with a cry for more signals, though we seem to lose them (crossers) at the same rate as back when there were NO signals.

One of the last daredevils squashed was just a short distance from an existing signal.

A shame, BUT ....................

mtgoat666 - 6-3-2013 at 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by liknbaja127
Hate to see this, but going to be very hard to police, most the people
love it down there. we watch the same thing last sept. in San Quitin.
there were flag men at the crossing, but the people would not listen!
very sorry for the family


Seems to me the promoters (and racers) are responsible. Or is that why they (gringos) run races in Mexico, because in USA people are held responsible for their intentional or unintentional actions and in Mexico you are allowed to man slaughter with little or no penalty?:?:

P.s. are gringos promoters immune from liability in USA courts if they create and advertise the races from their homes in USA? How do promoters get insurance for these events? Seems with a death rate of 1 to 2 people per year or per race they would be uninsurable, eh?

[Edited on 6-4-2013 by mtgoat666]


man slaughter...you're really reaching...like for your ankles


Well, I don't watch racing, so really don't care, but here's my 2 cents,...

It seems like criminally negligent involuntary manslaughter. Racers and promoters know their activities are unsafe and they disregard caution and maintain high speed among spectators close to course. Really, the drivers are the pros who have not been drinking, they should show more responsibility than the drunks along the course. Involuntary manslaughter. PREVENTABLE death. If promoter cannot create a course that drivers can drive safely without murdering spectators, then the drivers are to blame for racing in conditions they clearly know are unsafe to people near road. Ultimately, the driver is responsible, and he can slow when he sees unsafe conditions,... The drivers know they are driving unsafe lay, they are ultimately at fault when they kill someone. It's not like they don't know, it has happened many times before.

My 2 cents, and worth more than you paid for it!

Peace out!

Peace, love and fish tacos!

p.s. watch out!

[Edited on 6-4-2013 by mtgoat666]

rts551 - 6-4-2013 at 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by liknbaja127
Hate to see this, but going to be very hard to police, most the people
love it down there. we watch the same thing last sept. in San Quitin.
there were flag men at the crossing, but the people would not listen!
very sorry for the family


Seems to me the promoters (and racers) are responsible. Or is that why they (gringos) run races in Mexico, because in USA people are held responsible for their intentional or unintentional actions and in Mexico you are allowed to man slaughter with little or no penalty?:?:

P.s. are gringos promoters immune from liability in USA courts if they create and advertise the races from their homes in USA? How do promoters get insurance for these events? Seems with a death rate of 1 to 2 people per year or per race they would be uninsurable, eh?

[Edited on 6-4-2013 by mtgoat666]


man slaughter...you're really reaching...like for your ankles


Well, I don't watch racing, so really don't care, but here's my 2 cents,...

It seems like criminally negligent involuntary manslaughter. Racers and promoters know their activities are unsafe and they disregard caution and maintain high speed among spectators close to course. Really, the drivers are the pros who have not been drinking, they should show more responsibility than the drunks along the course. Involuntary manslaughter. PREVENTABLE death. If promoter cannot create a course that drivers can drive safely without murdering spectators, then the drivers are to blame for racing in conditions they clearly know are unsafe to people near road. Ultimately, the driver is responsible, and he can slow when he sees unsafe conditions,... The drivers know they are driving unsafe lay, they are ultimately at fault when they kill someone. It's not like they don't know, it has happened many times before.

My 2 cents, and worth more than you paid for it!

Peace out!

Peace, love and fish tacos!

p.s. watch out!

[Edited on 6-4-2013 by mtgoat666]


You are thinking like the Gringo that you are. It ain't Kansas Toto.

In Mexico you are responsible when you put your self in harms way.

Curt63 - 6-4-2013 at 09:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551

In Mexico you are responsible when you put your self in harms way.


Exactamente!

Lizard Logic ?

MrBillM - 6-4-2013 at 12:50 PM

From VGA:

"..........I think Dawkins would agree that the reptilian brain ( and we all have at least one of those) KNOWS better than to fight a fast moving car..............."

I've seen an awfully lot of Flattened Snakes and Lizards on the roads over the years.

Who (apparently) failed the test.

rts551 - 6-5-2013 at 07:24 PM

from a local news paper. I don't know ow much more racing we will be doing at this cost.


"Ensenada • pilot Kevin Price, who killed a spectator Saturday morning capsized during the race off road Baja 500, had to pay bail of 300 thousand pesos for their freedom. It left free at 20:00 hours yesterday.

According to information from the Office of the State Attorney, charge that is imputed to him is culpable homicide against Jorge Armando Vidal of 39 years of age and negligent injury on a child of ten, which is out of danger. CoPilot was unharmed from the accident.

The incident occurred at 12:45 hours after advance 11.5 kilometers of dirt road after the exit, when entering a curve of the colony rose Magallón, turned in an area where dozens of fans were.

The area in which the accident occurred is considered as dangerous by the residents of the place because in previous years they witnessed how children were injured for the same reason.

This warning was ignored by the same fans of just that, like others, are exposed to the danger of being reached by these contestants vehicles that go against the clock.

It is estimated that the value of a vehicle with the characteristics of the Price, has a cost in the market of between 30 and 45 thousand dollars."

woody with a view - 6-5-2013 at 07:31 PM

the spectators knew "The area in which the accident occurred is considered as dangerous by the residents of the place because in previous years they witnessed how children were injured for the same reason." yet they have no fault?

stupidity should be painful.....

mtgoat666 - 6-5-2013 at 08:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
the spectators knew "The area in which the accident occurred is considered as dangerous by the residents of the place because in previous years they witnessed how children were injured for the same reason." yet they have no fault?

stupidity should be painful.....


The law says yield and slow for pedestrians! Any normal human knows if you see kids, slow down! Doh!

Bajaboy - 6-5-2013 at 08:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
the spectators knew "The area in which the accident occurred is considered as dangerous by the residents of the place because in previous years they witnessed how children were injured for the same reason." yet they have no fault?

stupidity should be painful.....


The law says yield and slow for pedestrians! Any normal human knows if you see kids, slow down! Doh!


On a race course:lol: Any normal human knows to keep their kids away from a busy street let alone the Baja 500:?:

Group dedicated to Baja race safety

Ken Cooke - 6-29-2013 at 05:18 PM

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=67977&pag...

Pacifico - 6-29-2013 at 08:14 PM

It is a tragedy that someone died at the race.

However, I have been to plenty of these races over the years and on numerous occasions have witnessed locals getting as close as possible to the race cars; even attempting to touch them as they pass!

At what point is someone responsible for their own actions and use common sense? Common sense would dictate not to be on the outside of a corner and to not put oneself in harm's way and be where a race car might veer off of it's intended line. Safety is found in distance.

Common sense isn't so common...