BajaNomad - Punta Banda B C Mx.

Punta Banda B C Mx.

J.P. - 6-28-2013 at 08:54 AM

They are still at it a group of deep pocket Lawyers are in the process of trying to take over Rancho Packard . They Tried to illegally take possession of 5 Hectares and were removed by a court order. the court awarded them the property. but they didn't follow procedures to legally take over the property. It appears the court order that interrupted the takeover may only be a temporary fix.
Other than the on site panic this has created the local Baja No Bad News Committee has swept it under the carpet for fear of upsetting the local community It made the Mexican news el Vigia yesterday.

mtgoat666 - 6-28-2013 at 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.
They are still at it a group of deep pocket Lawyers are in the process of trying to take over Rancho Packard . They Tried to illegally take possession of 5 Hectares and were removed by a court order. the court awarded them the property. but they didn't follow procedures to legally take over the property. It appears the court order that interrupted the takeover may only be a temporary fix.
Other than the on site panic this has created the local Baja No Bad News Committee has swept it under the carpet for fear of upsetting the local community It made the Mexican news el Vigia yesterday.

if it's news worthy, provide the link to article, tell the story,... the info you provided is cryptic tidbits, can't really figure out what you are talking about (i suppose locals know what you are talking about?)

J.P. - 6-28-2013 at 04:01 PM

It all stems from a long going law suit the group was awarded possession of 5 hectares of land in Rancho Packard which affects 8 residents Homes the group appeared the afternoon of june 27 to take possession of the land they were awarded but did so illegally . the owners went to court and got a last minute injunction to stop the eviction process. there is a pending suit in court that involves a additional 5 hectares and will affect another 10 residents the entire area of Rancho Packard is roughly 20 Hectares which adjoins PUNTA BRAVA

[Edited on 6-29-2013 by BajaNomad]

J.P. - 6-28-2013 at 04:28 PM

Well this is about as bad as it gets. several people we know well are in danger of losing every thing they have.
In response to Goat asking for LINKS I don't need any I am a eye witness to what happened here.

[Edited on 6-29-2013 by BajaNomad]

DENNIS - 6-28-2013 at 04:39 PM

If this expropriation goes down, I may as well burn my house. It'll put an end to Punta Banda as a relocation destination maybe....forever.
All of Baja will suffer.

J.P. - 6-28-2013 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
If this expropriation goes down, I may as well burn my house. It'll put an end to Punta Banda as a relocation destination maybe....forever.
All of Baja will suffer.

Exactly the thing that makes me the maddest the people we know as the no bad news every thing is Rosy committee are trying to keep a lid on it they don't want to frighten anyone

mtgoat666 - 6-28-2013 at 05:03 PM

how long is the "long running" lawsuit? did the current occupants move in before or after the lawsuit started?

sorry my request for a link got your nose out of joint, but you mentioned an article in news and i wanted to read it, won't ask again!

[Edited on 6-29-2013 by BajaNomad]

J.P. - 6-28-2013 at 06:02 PM

I have liver here 11 years every one involved thought it was settled. the link you asked for Dennis provided the article was in El Vigia most of the residents moved here assuming it had been settled. this place has the reputation of being one of the safest and reputable owners. This current action came as a shock to everyone.

[Edited on 6-29-2013 by BajaNomad]

DENNIS - 6-28-2013 at 06:08 PM

I'm fully convinced the Law Schools are educating future lawyers in "Predatory Law."
The Ejidos will be their primary employer, and others, such as in this case, will freelance.

chuckie - 6-28-2013 at 06:14 PM

Stuff like this is why I would NEVER own property in Mexico..I am a renter..

BajaNomad - 6-29-2013 at 08:10 AM

http://www.elvigia.net/noticia/intentan-desalojar-siete-fami...

DENNIS - 6-29-2013 at 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad
http://www.elvigia.net/noticia/intentan-desalojar-siete-fami...

I posted this link in this thread yesterday, and now it's gone. What's up with that?

[Edited on 6-29-2013 by DENNIS]

absinvestor - 6-29-2013 at 08:41 AM

Chuckie- I have always said that I wouldn't buy anything in Mexico that I could not afford to walk away from. In the mid 90's I tried to buy a beach house in Punta Banda from a gal in Arizona. She assured me that land ownership was not in dispute etc. Other "owners" in the same area told me the same ie "you'll never have to worry about property in this area and you better buy now because prices will be going up!!" One trip to an attorney in Ensenada told me differently. I decided not to buy the house but agreed to rent it for a couple of years. Three years later the person that bought that house after I moved out (believing the prior owner) was evicted during a raging rain storm. I have since purchased a couple of places in Mexico. I always do my due deligence but my opinion has not changed and I will never buy anything that I can not afford to walk away from. There are too many examples of land lease payments being doubled (or worse) or owners are forced to leave due to some land dispute (not only in Punta Banda.) In many instances, it is much cheaper to rent than to buy and there are many rentals in most areas. Many people visit an area and believe they have found their paradise and any delay in purchasing will let the deal of a lifetime slip away!! (Me included.)What I have found is that after a couple of years the initial infatuation fades ie paradise in the summer (Baja Norte) might be freezing in the winter or paradise in the winter (Baja Sur) might be miserably hot and humid in the summer. (A location with a cooling breeze on a beautiful spring day becomes a place with gale force winds at a different time of the year or a place with no bugs during the dry season becomes inundated with flies and nats after the rainy season arrives.) It is much easier to find someone wanting to sell even at a loss (after owning for 2 or 3 years) than it is to find someone who wouldn't sell after those same 2 or 3 years. Mexico is a beautiful place but those thinking they have found a once in a lifetime deal that they need to purchase today (or lose it) most times regret that hasty decision. Although I have purchased, renting for at least a couple of years is not a bad way to go. The house, or one similar, that one considered buying a couple of years ago will probably be available at a lower price.

cliffh - 6-29-2013 at 08:42 AM

Is this the peninsula by the old hotel ? Cliffh

J.P. - 6-29-2013 at 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliffh
Is this the peninsula by the old hotel ? Cliffh

No it's at km.17 0n the La Bufadora highway about 3miles east of the Blowhole

Next door to the new Tiger Woods Golf Course

[Edited on 6-29-2013 by J.P.]

DENNIS - 6-29-2013 at 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad
http://www.elvigia.net/noticia/intentan-desalojar-siete-fami...

I posted this link in this thread yesterday, and now it's gone. What's up with that?

Never mind. I figured it out. I inadvertently linked to the sewage treatment site.
Sorry.

chuckie - 6-29-2013 at 03:49 PM

ABSI? I have "owned" 2 homes in Mulege in the 30+ years I have lived here. Without going into agonizing detail, after I sold them,(Ididnt own the land) the folks that bought them after "buying the land" are now 7 and 10 years into getting that done...lotsa lawyers, lotsa money, no title....Another good friend went thru exactly what is happening in PB..Bought land, built house 8 years later some dude shows up with papers....(lawyer) and bye bye....Due diligence? Crystal ball....good luck..nuff said...

Bajahowodd - 6-29-2013 at 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
Stuff like this is why I would NEVER own property in Mexico..I am a renter..

Technically, the folks at Rancho Packard (Dennis, JP and others) do not own property. They lease it. So, however much they may have expended in money, blood, sweat and tears to provide great living for themselves, it drains down the sink hole, if the land owner/ lessor either loses their rights via some lawsuit, or just merely sells the land.

Purchasing property is something altogether different.

DENNIS - 6-29-2013 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Technically, the folks at Rancho Packard (Dennis, JP and others)

Not me. I'm in Lomas Del Mar. Totally different.

Terry28 - 6-29-2013 at 04:25 PM

Think Buenaventura, just south of Mulege...and see how that turned out....I know, I was one of the unlucky ones...

DianaT - 6-29-2013 at 04:55 PM

I do think the walk away rule is the ONLY way to go for ejido land or leased land. Too many cases of huge rent raises and property disputes.

We felt relatively safe with the bank trust, but we did own a part of our property through a Preste Nombre which is never a safe thing even though we used one of the most trustworthy people in Asuncion. For us, it all worked out well.

I feel really badly for the people who have lost out and there will be more. It is really unfortunate that these land disputes often take years and years. I know owners who have pretty well forgotten that there is a dispute until the axe falls. :no:

DENNIS - 6-29-2013 at 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
We felt relatively safe with the bank trust, but we did own a part of our property through a Presta Nombre which is never a safe thing.........

Illegal, actually, but if the deal got jambed up, the only loser would be the foreigner.......of course.

Quote:

It is really unfortunate that these land disputes often take years and years. I know owners who have pretty well forgotten that there is a dispute until the axe falls. :no:

Mexicans have Oriental patience. They have been taught well how to wait.

J.P. - 6-29-2013 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

It is really unfortunate that these land disputes often take years and years. I know owners who have pretty well forgotten that there is a dispute until the axe falls. :no:

Mexicans have Oriental patience. They have been taught well how to wait.

It' not like we didn't know the possibility of it happening I can stand on my front deck and see the spit . hopefully in my lifetime it may never reach the part of the property we live on if and when it does for me I think the length of time and the beautiful location I live in the experience has already been worth what I spent here.
For others maybe not.

absinvestor - 6-29-2013 at 09:09 PM

Chuckie- I agree- my main point regardless of due deligence etc etc I won't buy anything in Mexico that I can not afford to walk away from. I also know of Americans that have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours fighting for what they considered to be their rights (in Mexico.) I'm sure there must be a couple but I personally don't know of any that were happy with the result.

chuckie - 6-30-2013 at 03:23 AM

That has always been the rule BUT BUT, it is not just about the money.Its about being uprooted, having your life interupted, sometimes with no place to go...AND altho most people talk the talk, they dont walk the walk..They end up with way more invested than they can just leave. And are then forced to fight to keep it, almost always a losing battle here. Renting shares some of the same risks, but , in your head you KNOW its not yours. Crap shoot....

Osprey - 6-30-2013 at 06:16 AM

Clarifying “Walk-Away” in Baja

Almost any realty post on the forum will have the admonishment “I wouldn’t buy anything in Mexico that I could not afford to walk away from.”

Rather than offer suggestions against that view it might be time to open it up and look inside. It is overbroad and so general as to be very strange advice. Allow me to state the situation in other words to explain my position.

How about :

1. “I wouldn’t pay cash for a $250,000 dollar house in Mexico unless I had plenty of money and could easily get along without that money so the risk of losing it doesn’t bother me.”

2. “I wouldn’t pay cash for a $250,000 dollar piece of land, business, yacht or airplane in Mexico unless I had plenty of money and could easily get along without that money and/or the property/equity so the risk of losing it doesn’t bother me.”

3. “I would never marry a woman in Mexico unless I knew that if I felt like it, I could just leave her.”

4. “I would never buy food in Mexico unless I had enough money to buy more if it spoiled and not miss the money I originally spent.”

5. “I would never bet any amount on anything in Mexico unless it was a sure thing.”

I have a lot more but you get the picture. Maybe some of you don’t get the picture. Let me know and I’ll do another clarification for your deep, deep feelings about investing in retirement and/or vacation opportunities in Italy, France, Turks and Caicos, Zimbabwe, Barstow, wherever.

chuckie - 6-30-2013 at 06:37 AM

Barstow? OK....

vandenberg - 6-30-2013 at 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
Barstow? OK....

Of course, the prime retirement spot, halfway between Tinseltown and Lost Wages. What could possibly be better?
And nice and warm too. :biggrin:

DianaT - 6-30-2013 at 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
Chuckie- I agree- my main point regardless of due deligence etc etc I won't buy anything in Mexico that I can not afford to walk away from. I also know of Americans that have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours fighting for what they considered to be their rights (in Mexico.) I'm sure there must be a couple but I personally don't know of any that were happy with the result.

Walk-away is definitely a subjective concept with a different very personal meaning for everyone and includes many intangible emotions.

[Edited on 6-30-2013 by DianaT]

absinvestor - 6-30-2013 at 08:18 AM

Osprey clarified exactly my feelings on "walk away." For me the amount is way under $250000 (more like $15000-$20000.) And Chuckie is correct on it's not just about the money. Many years ago a friend was kicked out of Santispac-He had to figure out where he could go and how he could "move" a fully assembled and furnished "palapa." Some walked away and some found another location. (Neither choice easy to make.) A beach community south of Mulege( fairly recently) had their "lease payments" increased from around $2500 per year to over $5000 per year. Many have built beautiful homes that can't be moved. Most will "eat" the increase since it is the least of two evils. The fact that most had a contract with many years left at the $2500/yr lease didn't help when the landlord said "tough" pay the increase or move out.

DianaT - 6-30-2013 at 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
Osprey clarified exactly my feelings on "walk away." For me the amount is way under $250000 (more like $15000-$20000.) And Chuckie is correct on it's not just about the money. Many years ago a friend was kicked out of Santispac-He had to figure out where he could go and how he could "move" a fully assembled and furnished "palapa." Some walked away and some found another location. (Neither choice easy to make.) A beach community south of Mulege( fairly recently) had their "lease payments" increased from around $2500 per year to over $5000 per year. Many have built beautiful homes that can't be moved. Most will "eat" the increase since it is the least of two evils. The fact that most had a contract with many years left at the $2500/yr lease didn't help when the landlord said "tough" pay the increase or move out.

There are many great reasons for Americans to "buy" or lease property in Baja even with all the risks, if they are aware of all the risks.

One mistake we have seen over and over is that the American thinks that any real estate deal is just like it is north of the border.

And one sure cannot depend on some who call themselves realtors as some of them know very little and/or practice the concept of disclosure with lies of omission.

[Edited on 6-30-2013 by DianaT]

monoloco - 6-30-2013 at 08:42 AM

Quote:

It is incredibly short sighted to invest in expensive improvements on a chunk of leased property in a country where the maximum legal term for a lease is ten years. A person has to be in denial to not realize what will transpire when their ten years are up.

BajaBlanca - 6-30-2013 at 09:51 AM

Such a shame that this indeed happens over and over and over.

The good thing about our area (La Bocana), is that the titled land is easy to research and clear because everyone is still alive who possibly owned the land originally.

J.P. - 6-30-2013 at 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Such a shame that this indeed happens over and over and over.

The good thing about our area (La Bocana), is that the titled land is easy to research and clear because everyone is still alive who possibly owned the land originally.

In our case I know several people that have been here 20+ years and although there is a rental increase in the contract it has rarely ever happened, I am on my 2nd contract and the rate is the same. most of the residents have watched the family grow up and regard them as family. This is as bad of a thing or worse for the family as it is the residents.
In a lot of cases People regard the owners of these property's as rich people but reality they are liken to the dry land wheat farmer. Land Rich and Dollar Poor

[Edited on 6-30-2013 by J.P.]

Paulina - 6-30-2013 at 10:17 AM

To J.P. and others involved, I'm sorry to hear of this happening. The thought of "having to walk away" is always in the back of my mind. Something we don't want to have to think about, and hope it never happens to us or our neighbors.

Regarding the walking part, I think I would be running. I would be trying to gain as much distance as I could before the propane tanks blew, if you get the picture...

Best regards,
P>*)))>{

deportes - 6-30-2013 at 10:38 AM

Very sorry for those impacted and thankful to the BN forum for the information. I am a couple of years away from retiring and could have fallen into the property ownership trap. Now I will definitely rent first and decide later.

Thanks.

Juan.

SFandH - 6-30-2013 at 10:46 AM

I'm following this thread closely because I'm dreaming about a house in BCS someday soon. Has anybody heard of somebody getting into a real estate dispute of some type when the real estate in question is bought via a fideicomiso with of course the approval of the bank and the local notario?

If so, I'd like to know the details.

[Edited on 6-30-2013 by SFandH]

Osprey - 6-30-2013 at 10:49 AM

Now permit me to rectify my clarification. Now the deep feeling might be better stated by the fearful "I wouldn't buy, RENT OR LEASE anything in Mexico that I could not afford to walk away from". At your leisure you may edit my clarification yourself simply by thinking about paying $250,000 cash OR PAYING CASH OUT AT VARIOUS INCREMENTS STILL HAVING DOLLARS YOU PAID AT RISK OF LOSS AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE. I'm prepared to start all over if you'll just describe all the other many ways you can lose it all in Mexico.

Lindalou - 6-30-2013 at 11:01 AM

Quote:

We were one of the lucky people that lost their palapa at santispac. Actually we were lucky because inside of the palapa was a fairly nice travel trailer, extra fridgs, stove generators solar panels and such that we were able to sell and got most of our money back. We hadn't lived there long enough to fix it up the way we wanted so we weren't in a lot of money like some were. Most of them relocated to coyote Bay.

woody with a view - 6-30-2013 at 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulina
To J.P. and others involved, I'm sorry to hear of this happening. The thought of "having to walk away" is always in the back of my mind. Something we don't want to have to think about, and hope it never happens to us or our neighbors.

Regarding the walking part, I think I would be running. I would be trying to gain as much distance as I could before the propane tanks blew, if you get the picture...

Best regards,
P>*)))>{

i like that girl! :light:

Osprey - 6-30-2013 at 12:18 PM

Woody, do you like gringo arsonists or just arsonists in general?

chuckie - 6-30-2013 at 12:48 PM

I think you better rectify that clarification....or clarify that rectification or...

LancairDriver - 6-30-2013 at 12:58 PM

Quote:

I can't imagine a more appropriate response to this calculated ripoff.

Bajahowodd - 6-30-2013 at 04:05 PM

But the PRI is back in power! Happy days return!

chuckie - 7-1-2013 at 08:12 AM

Dont forget Punta Arena...