BajaNomad - Orcas Attacking a Fin Whale In Bahia de La Paz

Orcas Attacking a Fin Whale In Bahia de La Paz

monoloco - 7-28-2013 at 07:05 AM

Amazing video:
http://youtu.be/3HmDmqLl6WA

mtgoat666 - 7-28-2013 at 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
Amazing video:
http://youtu.be/3HmDmqLl6WA

the charter boat operator was following whales too close,... In one scene you can see fresh propeller scar on fin whales back. Fin whale was probably already stressed out, boat chasing whale probably did not help his stress level, eh?

monoloco - 7-28-2013 at 01:47 PM

I agree, charter boats often get too close. I've seen 5 or 6 boats at a time harassing gray whales off Cabo trying to jockey for a good viewing position.

Bajahowodd - 7-28-2013 at 04:06 PM

I have always been dismayed by the love of the Orca. It is the singular whale that eats flesh, i.e. other whales. My wonderful friends, the California Grey whale adapted to this truth by finding safe venues to reproduce and birth.

At Laguna Ojo de Liebre, the fact that it is relatively shallow makes it a safe haven. Orcas, by nature, dive deep to enable them to have the speed with which they attack their prey. They cannot do that in Liebre.

So, it has often saddened me that while I'm having this "high" as I'm petting these beautiful creatures in the lagoon, I fear for them as they exit.

Sadly, often, the orcas wait outside and attack the calves when they leave on their trek North with their mothers.

I really hate Sea World because they canonize the cannibal Orcas with plaques and t-shirts and even license plate frames that proclaim "I love Orcas".

Sadly, the Orca appears to be the "prettiest" of the whale family, and are easily trained.

But, I do not love Orcas.

Mexitron - 7-28-2013 at 04:19 PM

Life feeds on life---is it any less despicable than a pack of wolves taking down a bison or a lion taking out a water buffalo? or for that matter a pet dog eating a squirrel? I don't "like" it either but it seems to be the way the world is. The whales were fine, all things considered, until we decimated their numbers, far more damage than the orcas have ever done.

Orcas, Sea World and "Blackfish" documentary

Whale-ista - 7-28-2013 at 04:37 PM

Sea World "trains" orcas by starving them, isolating them from other whales, and denying them food until they perform the desired behavior. I don't consider that training, I consider it torture.

They also use captive breeding and then remove young whales from the mother a few weeks after birth, long before they would naturally separate. Anyone who has observed the close, tactile relationship of gray whales in the Baja lagoons would know how abnormal this is.

I'm a native San Diegan who gave up on sea world many years ago after watching clearly psychotic behavior on display by large intelligent marine mammals locked in tiny aquariums. It was too disturbing to see these animals in captivity.

I'll pay money to travel to see them in the lagoons or offshore, but never again in tanks.

The new documentary highlights the behavior of an orca that has now killed 3 trainers. Sea World is working hard to disprove the Information. Search for "Blackfish" for more details but be forewarned, it is gruesome.

DianaT - 7-28-2013 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
Life feeds on life---is it any less despicable than a pack of wolves taking down a bison or a lion taking out a water buffalo? or for that matter a pet dog eating a squirrel? I don't "like" it either but it seems to be the way the world is. The whales were fine, all things considered, until we decimated their numbers, far more damage than the orcas have ever done.

Yes, nature is not always a pretty thing to watch. It can be so difficult to watch not only predator taking down prey, but the internal battles among predators, like a wolf pack killing a former alpha female because there is a new alpha.

But as you point out in the example of the whales, there is one animal on this planet who dominates in the area of destroying other species for economic or simply sport reasons.

Whale-ista, I dislike Sea World for those reasons. I always hated zoos, even as a child. I hated to see the animals caged. Admittedly, it is a bit different in some places where only orphaned or injured animals are taken in and the zoos participate in saving species, for instance the California Condor.

[Edited on 7-31-2013 by DianaT]

Barry A. - 7-28-2013 at 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Yes, nature is not always a pretty thing to watch. It can be so difficult to watch not only predator taking down prey, but the internal battles among predators, like a wolf pack killing a former alpha female because there is a new alpha.

But as you point out in the example of the whales, there is one animal on this planet who dominates in the area of destroying other species for economic or simply sport reasons, even in the case of humans against humans. Some predators live on this forum.

Whale-ista, I dislike Sea World for those reasons. I always hated zoos, even as a child. I hated to see the animals caged. Admittedly, it is a bit different in some places where only orphaned or injured animals are taken in and the zoos participate in saving species, for instance the California Condor.

[Edited on 7-28-2013 by DianaT]

I agree. My sister Lived right across from "Sea World" for years, and never attended for the reasons you all state, and I never did either. Ditto for the San Diego Zoo, one of the best in the world, but it disturbs me greatly to be there, as does the Monterey Aquarium--------My kids feel the same way, tho undoubtably influenced by me..

Its all very unsettleing. We do hunt birds and deer, and fish, occasionally-------but even that is somewhat disturbing to me, and I almost never do even that anymore.

Barry

Mexitron - 7-28-2013 at 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whale-ista
Sea World "trains" orcas by starving them, isolating them from other whales, and denying them food until they perform the desired behavior. I don't consider that training, I consider it torture.

They also use captive breeding and then remove young whales from the mother a few weeks after birth, long before they would naturally separate. Anyone who has observed the close, tactile relationship of gray whales in the Baja lagoons would know how abnormal this is.

I'm a native San Diegan who gave up on sea world many years ago after watching clearly psychotic behavior on display by large intelligent marine mammals locked in tiny aquariums. It was too disturbing to see these animals in captivity.

I'll pay money to travel to see them in the lagoons or offshore, but never again in tanks.

The new documentary highlights the behavior of an orca that has now killed 3 trainers. Sea World is working hard to disprove the Information. Search for "Blackfish" for more details but be forewarned, it is gruesome.

Agreed on the dislike of aquariums!

shari - 7-28-2013 at 06:47 PM

actually Orcas are dolphins not whales but yeah, they are the macho biker type cetacean for sure...and like some human hunters they attack just for the fun of it...not because they are hungry.

the propeller cuts werent fresh I dont think because they were white which is scar tissue so they probably werent from that boat...also whales being attacked by Orcas will try to get under a boat in hopes of staving off an attach...maybe that's what it did

I used to live on my boat anchored out in Oak Bay next to Seaworld in Victoria BC but I had to move because I was so disturbed by Orcas who would hang around and cry for their loved ones incarcerated behind the net pens...really sad....I just dont buy the logic that whales in captivity are the ambassadors of the species...it's educational...blah blah blah

free Willy and send him to Asuncion Island to cull some of the sea lions!

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by shari]

liknbaja127 - 7-28-2013 at 06:58 PM

Shari, you are the whale lady! Love your posts on this stuff! you are the
ambassador for the whales. cant wait for next year, to see you and your
daughter again. never been to sea world, dont see the need. same for the zoo's. good video!

shari - 7-28-2013 at 07:23 PM

why thank you...I am already scheduling next seasons trips and look forward to Sirena guiding with me too.

I have been involved in whale protection for over 2 decades which I must say Mexico is more advanced than Canada and the States in that area. I cut my teeth in whale research learning from my amigos Drs.J im Darling, John Ford and Graeme Ellis who were the first guys to come up with the idea of photo identifying whales...which came about because Graeme worked as a fisheries observer on Bob Wright's (owner of the aquarium in Victoria) live capture boats...he was capturing whales right there on Vancouver Island so the captives families would go and visit them. Graeme was sickened by the horrible method used in rounding up whales, how they injured so many and basically terrorized them.

Graeme had an inkling that there were far less Orcas than they thought there were so he came up with the idea of photo ID'ing them so they could count them...which they did and they discovered that there were waaaaaay less than they figured...only 330...which made a very strong case for stopping the live capture there...which they did!!!! Yay team! although now they just go to Iceland or wherever where it is still allowed. Then Mr. Wright went into the whale watching business with his boats...how ironic eh.

whale harassment is a controversial issue very near to my heart and a very difficult one & hard to enforce...I have been fired at jobs trying to insist on better protection...bottom line is that whale watching is big business and their first concern is NOT the whales safety. & well being by any means.

DianaT - 7-28-2013 at 07:36 PM

As I stated, I do have problems with the idea of zoos, but some do serve some good. A good Baja example is the Pronghorn in the Vizcaino that used to range all the way down the peninsula. On the reserve, there was concern about the gene pool and the Los Angeles Zoo became involved. They came to the preserve and did genetic testing for the selective breeding program. The Houston Zoo and the San Diego Zoo have also been actively involved in saving the species.

Then there is the Belize Zoo which is a wonderful place. Orphaned animals were rescued and given a home; orphaned for many reasons including being used in movies and TV specials. And it is VERY educational about protecting the animals in the wild where orphaned and semi/domesticated or habituated animals cannot survive.

While it sounds heroic and grandiose to paint all zoos for land and sea animals as HORRIBLE, it ignores a lot of good in the areas of preservation.

DianaT - 7-28-2013 at 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari

whale harassment is a controversial issue very near to my heart and a very difficult one & hard to enforce...I have been fired at jobs trying to insist on better protection...bottom line is that whale watching is big business and their first concern is NOT the whales safety. & well being by any means.

Others explain why you were fired very differently --- more than one side to the story.

It appears that at least some of the places in San Ignacio are quite concerned with the safety of the whales, like Kuyima and the many researchers who are there every year. It is quite controlled.

Yes, whale watching is a money making venture for some, including you. And whale watching is probably what has increased awareness and has helped saved the whales.

John

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by DianaT]

willardguy - 7-28-2013 at 07:49 PM

don't forget snuffy the seal! :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnDH1va7iC0

Sea world protest (video reports)

Whale-ista - 7-28-2013 at 07:51 PM

http://www.10news.com/news/protest-held-outside-seaworld-san...

shari - 7-28-2013 at 08:02 PM

Yes John..."others" say alot of things...but I was there and know the truth...not the spin that was put on it...and there has been more than one occasion outside of Mexico where speaking out in defense of whales has not been a popular stance.

I believe whale watching can and is done in a respectful way in many areas and as I said Mexico leads the pack in whale protection regulations. I agree 100% that experiencing whales in the wild helps raise awareness and save whales. I am not against whale watching by any means but I also know first hand how it impacts whales...and know that it CAN be done properly if the will is there.

I sold my whale watching company in Canada because I just couldnt bear the increase in pressure on the whales in the feeding grounds...way too many boats that interfered with feeding by getting in the middle of a feeding pattern....I began to feel guilty about participating in the debacle. Luckily here in baja, the regulations are generally adhered to which is something to be proud of.

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by shari]

DianaT - 7-28-2013 at 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari

I sold my whale watching company in Canada because I just couldnt bear the increase in pressure on the whales in the feeding grounds...way too many boats that interfered with feeding by getting in the middle of a feeding pattern.

So the pressure from the lawsuit against your business in Canada had nothing to do with it? Did you ever finalize the judgement?

John

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by DianaT]

shari - 7-28-2013 at 08:09 PM

what on earth are you talking about John?

DianaT - 7-28-2013 at 08:15 PM

Shari, your whale watching business in Canada was sued by a client --- don't you remember? You lost the lawsuit. At one time you told us that you thought it was not a legitimate lawsuit because the pregnant lady was warned that it would be a rough ride, but the court did not see it that way. Is that when you sold the business and headed for the border?

Law Suit

John

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by DianaT]

shari - 7-28-2013 at 08:33 PM

Oh my goodness John...is this an orca attack? I think you need to get your facts straight before making accusations and is this really the place to attack me? but OK, I'll bite...back.

In the very early years of the whale watching industry we all made mistakes. I thought I had my bases covered by having good insurance even though it wasnt a regulation to have it. The incident you are referring to went like this....oh yeah and there never was anyone pregnant in this story.

Each time we seated passengers in the rigid hull zodiacs, we ask if there is anyone with back problems or are pregnant....nobody said diddly squat. Then we allow people to sit where they want and often suggest that older people sit at the back and tell people the front is the bounciest place.

So on the west coast there are big waves and the zodiac can be a rough ride at times...long story short...the zodiac came down hard over a wave and the woman in the front suffered a back injury that was very well handled by our guide.

I went to the hospital with the woman...she was hurt and I spent alot of time with her afterwards and we became friends and she said it was her own damn fault and knew it was no fault of the guide or our company.

Well, someone later council-ed her on suing us because insurance would cover it. Well, it just so happened that that particular guide had only been working with us a short time and unbeknownst to me he wasnt covered by our insurance. I just plain did not realize I had to list each guide separately...my bad.

So, it was a very expensive lesson...we settled out of court for 10 grand...end of story...and after that got people to sign waivers. That was in the early days of my company John and we never had another incident again and it was a very successful business....so to answer your "question" John...NO NO NO...that was not why I sold my business and headed for the border...not even close.

sheesh

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by shari]

DianaT - 7-28-2013 at 08:52 PM

Shari, your response has little resemblance to the story you originally told us --- but that is not surprising. And yes, according to the lawsuit, it was a bad back, not pregnancy as you told us.

Orca attack? No, just questioning the inconsistent versions of your stories. They are different every time.

John

shari - 7-28-2013 at 08:54 PM

wow...a blast from the past...thanks John for reminding me of the details...my memory sucks for sure...I remember wanting to settle out of court but it went to trail after all and she won all right...ya win some ya lose some....but that was not why I sold the business.

and we did install a grab bar after that and people were constantly bumping their chins on it and it was as much of a risk of someone knocking themselves out and we padded the seats better...so we learned from this accident which is how businesses evolve and learn from their errors...zodiac whale watching is an adventure sport with inherent risks...as all whale watching is really. Things can go very wrong very quickly on the ocean in the company of wild whales.

shari - 7-28-2013 at 08:58 PM

John...seems like your memory may be as poor as mine is...sorry I'm not 100% consistent in something that happened 20 years ago in another lifetime....good night all....sorry for the highjack amigos....carry on.

Barry A. - 7-28-2013 at 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by shari

So, it was a very expensive lesson...we settled out of court for 10 grand...end of story...and after that got people to sign waivers. at was not why I sold my business and headed for the border...not even close.
That was in the early days of my company John and we never had another incident again and it was a very successful business....so to answer your "question" John...NO NO NO...th
sheesh

In Court Settlement

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by DianaT]

John (aka Diana T)------why in the world are you doing this??? Your bringing all this up out of Shari's past is beyond reason, to me, and of no consequence other than to injure----inexplicable!!!!

I personally hate these kinds of suits, and always have, irrespective of the Courts findings.

What a travesty!!!

Barry

LancairDriver - 7-28-2013 at 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

In Court Settlement

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by DianaT]

I'm as amazed as Barry. Why here?

BajaRat - 7-28-2013 at 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Yes, nature is not always a pretty thing to watch.

But as you point out in the example of the whales, there is one animal on this planet who dominates in the area of destroying other species for economic or simply sport reasons, even in the case of humans against humans. Some predators live on this forum.

[Edited on 7-28-2013 by DianaT]

Wow ! Got an axe to grind John . I've noticed over the years you guys troll Shari every chance you get. I've enjoyed many of your trip reports but your passive aggressive BS is not your best stuff. Why don't you settle your differences with her in person and stop dragging her name through the mud. Your right " nature is not always a pretty thing to watch " " even in the case of humans against humans " :no:

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by BajaRat]

motoged - 7-28-2013 at 11:19 PM

So...is John Diana T or Diana's other half....or what? :?:

And I heard a while back that Diana (or whoever hides behind that name) had some differences with Shari.....but this Tofino story doesn't really present Shari as having done something wrong...as much as the nurse's desire to sit up front contributed to her misadventure....(thin-skull injury for an adventure traveler).

Shari....next time I am in your barrio you better warn me about crossing the street, watching out for scorpions, and god help you if I get the stomach rumbles if I eat anything in BA.... :saint:

dtbushpilot - 7-29-2013 at 06:12 AM

Don't look now but someone's a$$ is showing....

DianaT - 7-29-2013 at 06:30 AM

No one said Shari did anything wrong ---- it was just the story she told us as to why she left the business.

I love it when I hear that we have some differences with Shari, heard from whom? :lol:

Ni modo, she made a lot of money from us and should be happy. And no, that is not an axe to grind, we are not unhappy with our decision to pay her both when we bought our place and again when we sold our place. She earned it on the one end and it was necessary on the other.

On with the stories.

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by DianaT]

motoged - 7-29-2013 at 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
No one said Shari did anything wrong ---- it was just the story she told us as to why she left the business.

I love it when I hear that we have some differences with Shari, heard from whom? :lol:

.....
[Edited on 7-29-2013 by DianaT]

Your innuendo suggests that Shari is somehow unscrupulous, dishonest, and dishonourable.....all traits that have not appeared in any of my experiences with her. Whatever your beef is, it seems underhanded to hijack the whale thread by conjuring up your legal document thread to suggest Shari has been dishonset.

"Heard from whom?" ....It was a U2 message from a Nomad familiar with BA news, politics, and such....and NOT from Shari....that person;'s privacy will be respected....a concept you may not apply in your personal vendettas :light:

DavidE - 7-29-2013 at 01:30 PM

This forum sure as hell is not abrasive enough to grind one's axe on. Or at least it shouldn't be. I'm still trying with a gigantic lack of success to connect an orca attack on a finback whale in La Paz, with arbitration. The finback got an injury attorney or sumthin'?

Mexitron - 7-29-2013 at 01:35 PM

Davide--yes the finback got a cetacean for speeding.

DavidE - 7-29-2013 at 02:03 PM

Slipped the azul a fin did he to avoid going to the commandancia?

mtgoat666 - 7-29-2013 at 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
Davide--yes the finback got a cetacean for speeding.

he should have flashed his badge to get out of cetacean:

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by mtgoat666]

[Edited on 7-29-2013 by BajaNomad]

DavidE - 7-29-2013 at 03:15 PM

That would drive my granddaughters insane! Then they'd spend the next hour wrestling and crawling all over the inside of the car after all that sugar and colorantes buzzed them.

motoged - 7-29-2013 at 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
Davide--yes the finback got a cetacean for speeding.

Brilliant !!!! :lol:

Bajahowodd - 7-29-2013 at 05:01 PM

Obviously, John and DianaT who had been part time residents and owners in Asuncion had some form of falling out with Shari. Although I have no idea whether John uses Diana's ID to post on here, I actually doubt it. So, the very fact that Shari began the rebuttal addressing John......

At the end of the day, I really don't care. I have had cordial relations with both Sgari and Diana.

BajaLuna - 7-30-2013 at 09:52 AM

I really find this thread so disheartening. And I'm really disturbed by it. It went from whales to lawsuits and then to even more disturbing...the house commission. The house was on the market for quite a long time, as many houses in this economy are, both in Mexico and the U.S, eh. It may not have sold when it did if it hadn't been for Shari, I say that with all honesty. We as a perspective buyer came to buy vacant land and let a house evolve eventually with time..live in our RV, build a garage..and go from there..we looked at several houses in a few towns, but because we weren't in a hurry as we are on the 5-year retirement plan, we really wanted to just build something for cash along the way. But sometimes magic happens and you know what they say..life is what happens to you while you are busy making plans. Shari took us to see alot of properties, and also we spent much time and talked an awful lot with Shari about the costs of building vs buying this particular house, we were there a week talking real estate with her and Shari's input on that was essential to our decision making as she knows the ins and outs of building there in BA and the costs. Not to mention that we were able to get information on how we could change a few things with the house in order for it to work for us, IE expanding the shed/garage, which was one of our concerns. Shari got the house sold, that is the jest of it, and for that she deserved to be reimbursed for her time and effort, because that's the right thing to do. In Mexico things are different, sometimes one person sells the house and then another tends to the deal the rest of the way from there IE pushing the legal paperwork through, it's just the way it is there in some cases, but even just selling a house is a job too, being a former Realtor myself, I can vouch for that...and it too deserves to be compensated. In the end I will say this...it was a pleasant experience all the way around working with Shari..and because of her, the house was sold, Yayy! We are happy campers, and we are grateful to Shari! I highly recommend working with Shari!

BajaLuna - 7-30-2013 at 09:57 AM

Gratitude goes a longgg ways, people!

Skipjack Joe - 7-31-2013 at 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari

I used to live on my boat anchored out in Oak Bay next to Seaworld in Victoria BC but I had to move because I was so disturbed by Orcas who would hang around and cry for their loved ones incarcerated behind the net pens...really sad....

Why was this thread 'hijacked'? It appears to be due to the above statement. I read this as saying the she moved away from the vicinity of Seaworld (to avoid hearing the plaintive cries), not to leave the country entirely. She's not saying here that she left for mexico due to the 'brutality' of 'aquariums'.

Interestingly enough, there has been a great deal of recent anger over the hijacking of this thread. Yet nobody seemed to be concerned about the hijack until it took a turn they didn't like. Some of the very people that talked about the 'inhumanity' of zoos later complained about the thread being hijacked.

Regarding the morally superior ways that animals are treated by Mexicans: I witnessed a very similar episode at La Cuesta De La Ley a couple of years ago. A group of Mexicans in 2 trucks had driven a herd of wild asses into a box canyon and were roping them into the trucks. The 2 trucks did not have enough room in them for all of the animals and some were forced to lay down on the bed of the truck while others stood on to of them. Now I know what you're thinking - how could one hoofed animal stand on top of another without crushing it's innards. Well, they actually seemed to be aware of this and placed their weight on legs that were on the bed and used other legs to maintain balance. It just seemed so barbaric. But what made me think of this thread were the young donkeys that were still being weaned and had strong bonds with their mothers. The Mexicans never bothered to chase these ones down. They followed their mothers of their own free will to the trucks. They never wanted freedom. They just wanted to be with their mothers. The real problem was when they had to separate them from their mothers and load them in the different trucks. Both mother and youngster became very emotional. The youngster cried out and the mother became far more aggressive and tried to escape to get back to their foals(?). This didn't bother the Mexicans either because they knew the mothers would not leave their young and didn't have to be chased. Truly it was difficult to watch and I felt a fair amount of anger towards these people. I never learned what eventually happened to these asses.

However, I also realize that perhaps this is just the worldview of a city slicker. It's my understanding that this is a common scene on every ranch throughout the US and that mother and youngster eventually do adjust and accept their new reality.

motoged - 7-31-2013 at 10:13 AM

Originally posted by shari

I used to live on my boat anchored out in Oak Bay next to Seaworld in Victoria BC but I had to move because I was so disturbed by Orcas who would hang around and cry for their loved ones incarcerated behind the net pens...really sad....

Skip,
Shari is referring to moving her boat out of the harbour....not to leaving Canada for Mexico is my understanding of her comment.

Folks all over the planet mistreat critters....so the hijack seemed to be over sour grapes and donkeys..... :biggrin:

Years ago I watched a father playing in the surf in Puerto Angel (Oaxaca) with his daughter aged about 4-6 years while mom sat on the beach watching. Dad had the family dog (German Shepherd mutt about 5 months old) in the water and was dunking the dog "playfully" until the dog drowned.....he looked a bit sheepish when he saw me watching....his daughter had a look on her face that I won't ever forget.

They all left the area with the dog laying at the water's edge

DavidE - 7-31-2013 at 12:31 PM

Hi Jack!

But on the other hand, an adopted Mexican mutt makes the most loyal pet you can ever imagine. They seem to never, ever forget how fortunate they are. Fell into knee high clover and smile about it.

Animals and humans both can be intentionally cruel. It is hard to bear. A local cat discovered just how big a sucker I am for hungry animals. A month later she is fat and sassy and she gives the local golden lab "kisses".

Maybe the best way is to lead and display examples of kindness so locals can see the results for themselves.

Barry A. - 7-31-2013 at 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Hi Jack!

But on the other hand, an adopted Mexican mutt makes the most loyal pet you can ever imagine. They seem to never, ever forget how fortunate they are. Fell into knee high clover and smile about it.

Animals and humans both can be intentionally cruel. It is hard to bear. A local cat discovered just how big a sucker I am for hungry animals. A month later she is fat and sassy and she gives the local golden lab "kisses".

Maybe the best way is to lead and display examples of kindness so locals can see the results for themselves.

Exactly------lead by example---------always the most non-judgemental way to teach, I think. I applaud you, DavidE.

:light:

Barry

Mexitron - 7-31-2013 at 01:03 PM

Lead by example....so that's why my landscape crew wants to go home two hours early---they've been watching me! :lol:

willardguy - 7-31-2013 at 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron
Lead by example....so that's why my landscape crew wants to go home two hours early---they've been watching me! :lol:

Its "do as I say, not as I do"! :lol:

Barry A. - 7-31-2013 at 01:27 PM

Personally, I wish that John (DianaT) would go back and delete his sorta 'off-topic' personal posts about Shari-----------in my opinion they are in very poor taste and mean-sprited, and having them just sit there on this thread is offensive and hurtful to Shari and Juan, and potentially harmful to their business's in Bahia Asuncion.

All these barbs and opinions aimed at Shari by John really bothers me------and seems so useless, and so potentially damaging--------WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE POINT OF THEM????

The more I think about this, the more upsetting it gets to me.

Please, John, just remove them and let the damaging comments disappear and die !?!?!?!?! :light:

Barry

Kgryfon - 7-31-2013 at 01:35 PM

I agree with Barry. Off-topic and mean-spirited.

mtgoat666 - 7-31-2013 at 01:44 PM

speaking of Orcas, go see "Blackfish" http://youtu.be/_C7Le65dCuU

DavidE - 7-31-2013 at 01:49 PM

Keep posting something -else- and it will disappear on its own. Please don't keep breathing life into it.

Positive thoughts are contagious and bring good vibes. Turn your thoughts to how you can help your favorite Mexican family or person.Do they need clothes, dishware, or school uniforms for the kids?

Barry A. - 7-31-2013 at 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Keep posting something -else- and it will disappear on its own. Please don't keep breathing life into it.

Positive thoughts are contagious and bring good vibes. Turn your thoughts to how you can help your favorite Mexican family or person.Do they need clothes, dishware, or school uniforms for the kids?

I agree, David, but unfortunately it will not "disappear" until it is physically removed-------the thread and the individual posts will live forever in "thread-land" for all to see, and continue causing damage, I think.. Preferrably, John will remove them, but if he does not I hope that Doug will.

Shari & Juan do NOT deserve this !

Barry

BajaLuna - 7-31-2013 at 02:17 PM

I agree! I U2U to have it removed. Because I don't think it is conducive to a community vibe at all. It really felt icky. I know I'm new here, and am not a part of any history here, and I barely even know these people but Diane's always been nice to me and I had envisioned her coming over to her old house and us talking over coffee...and Shari I barely even know her either..it wouldn't matter to me if it happened to Shari or anyone else here..I will stand up for something that is sooo utterly wrong because that is who I am. And I don't know and don't care to know what this is all about, but seriously for someone to go out of their way to hunt down on the net someone's past, present that in front of god and everyone, close friends, etc is not cool at all. We all make mistakes in our past when we are young, so what! And some of us aren't proud of things we have done! Hey everyone disagrees with people at times, and people don't share the same beliefs but that's what keeps it all interesting, diversity!! and I try and honor people's opinions and rights to free speech but this was way beyond differing opinions that are presented here on the boards, it was hurtful, harmful, malicious, and slanderous. And no good can come out of any energy like that for anyone. I felt it all the way up here..and it felt icky. Hey maybe try conflict resolution, wow what a novel concept! I seriously, came to the conclusion I can't be a part of any community that allows that kind of energy. I thought it was "peace, love, and fish tacos"! The Adminstrator of this board needs to delete this thread and I think it would be nice if monoloco or whoever it was that posted the original post about the whales, reposts that orca post because it was a good thread and deserved further conversation! sheesh people get a grip!

NONE OF IT IS WORTH ENCOURAGING THIS!

DavidE - 7-31-2013 at 02:40 PM

This subject needs permanent weed killer to eradicate IMHO

BajaLuna - 7-31-2013 at 02:42 PM

It needs to be removed.

willyAirstream - 7-31-2013 at 02:47 PM

Or just change the original subject line to

Orcas, Dianna T and John, Attacking a Fin Whale, Shari, in Bahia Asuncion

Shari is a great person , running a good biz and a asset to her community.

motoged - 7-31-2013 at 02:59 PM

I would not be offended ....and would be pleased to see my comments disappear with this thread....aside from the initial orca/fin whale link post.

And feel good about my posts remaining "to create balance" if the thread remains.

I have deleted some of my posts which have been snarky and rude, so am somewhat self-regulating :light:

DavidE - 7-31-2013 at 05:08 PM

Orcas prefer and actually attack to gain access to the whale's tongue. Female orcas attack sperm whales for their ambergris which they rub behind their ears*. Whale oil lit most homes in the 18th century, and ambergris was used until Whaling was banned as a very expensive and vital ingredient in the most hoity-toity French perfumes. Whale oil was used in automobile automatic transmission fluids well into the 1970's and was considered to be an "irreplaceable" anti-wear additive.

*Not the sperm whale's ears, dummy!

Skipjack Joe - 7-31-2013 at 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE POINT OF THEM????

Barry

The point is that the author felt there was an element of hypocrisy in the statement that the area was left due to the plaintive cries of captured orcas when the business was aborted due to a lawsuit. It's clear that this hit a nerve to the reader and resulted in the post.

Hope this makes it clearer Barry.

Canuckian geography lesson...

windgrrl - 7-31-2013 at 08:13 PM

Oak Bay, Victoria, (sea world) and Tofino (location of the said business) are located 1/2 days drive away from each other on opposite sides of Vancouver Island, BC, Canada and a world away from Baja.

:biggrin:

:

[Edited on 8-1-2013 by windgrrl]

Barry A. - 7-31-2013 at 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE POINT OF THEM????

Barry

No, it does not, but thanks for trying SKipJack. Shari knows what really happened, and frankly it is none of our business. For John to challenge her on this thread or on this board in the way that he did is childish and dangerous, IMO, especially considering the possible injury to Juan and Shari's business. Unless that is John's purpose, none of John's injurious declarations and revelations make any sense to me, and in fact seem very mean-sprited and irrevelant.

As I have said many times-----"we all are hypocrits", sometimes on purpose and other times by mistake or forgetfulness.

Further, I do not see how you can come to the conclusion that "-----the business was aborted due to a lawsuit". That's pure speculation, and not based on the Court Document as I read it, nor Shari's explanation---------i.e. another mean-sprited declaration with the intent to injure.

What's wrong with you guys??

Barry

Skipjack Joe - 8-1-2013 at 12:34 AM

Sorry Barry. These days I rarely find anything you write that I agree with:

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Shari knows what really happened, and frankly it is none of our business.

Barry

None of our business? What are we allowed to discuss according to your viewpoint? Please tell us when it is our business to talk about something and when it is not.

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

For John to challenge her on this thread or on this board in the way that he did is childish and dangerous

Childish and dangerous? That's not supporting or reputing anything with facts. That's just your judgment based upon on your conclusions. And those that you don't agree with are childish and dangerous.

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Further, I do not see how you can come to the conclusion that "-----the business was aborted due to a lawsuit". That's pure speculation, and not based on the Court Document as I read it, nor Shari's explanation---------i.e. another mean-sprited declaration with the intent to injure.

I don't know if we're reading the same words. I believe shari stated that the she lost the lawsuit (settled out of court) and closed the business. As I recall her guide did not have the insurance coverage she expected and therefore it fell on the company to cover the costs. Please reread.

And speaking of speculation - most of your posts about a mean-spirited declaration with the intent to injure - is speculation. THAT is pure speculation. You have no idea, absolutely no idea, what were the motives for those posts. Yet you accuse the poster of the same. At least he provided a link to a document to support his thinking. What are you offering?

What I really think you're unhappy about is that this thread doesn't have the tone that you feel this forum should have. Like any reputable magazine there are stories that should be left out to meet certain standards. Well, I actually agree with that. But not in the manner you're going about.

shari - 8-1-2013 at 08:21 AM

I did not state that I closed my business because of this lawsuit...John did....there were many factors that contributed to my decision to sell and we were doing very very well at the time...the main one was I didnt feel good about whale watching anymore as there were far too many boats disturbing a very small local population of whales, Tofino was growing in a direction that I wasnt comfortable with, I was loving Baja more than Tofino and was ready to make the change to living here full time....most people know I would be happy to discuss this privately but I agree it really isnt anyone's business why I sold.

You know what bothers me most about this whole thing? Many baja lovers want to participate in the forum but are afraid to because they worry about being attacked and abused. I feel terrible that this incident will add to their fears and less people will post their thoughts, dreams, concerns etc.

The health & quality of Baja Nomads forum depends on the members and I urge people to please post their experiences so that the board is vibrant, useful and interesting. I tell them that WE the members are responsible for the “tone” of the forum and new blood would breath new life into the board.

I learn so much from the people in this sandbox and in return hope that my posts are helpful or inspiring. Many people tell me how great the information is here and how they read it every day but wouldn’t dare write anything for fear of being smeared or abused and I am ashamed that this happens. So, as much as it disturbed me personally that I was attacked…it was an attack on the Nomad community too for this is exactly the type of abuse that most people want to avoid.

So, I’m sorry all you Nomads…hopefully something positive may come of it. It would truly be a better board if this behavior was not tolerated. We all have beefs with people but here is not the place to flesh them out.

As Baja Luna said…gratitude goes a long way…so I give thanks to those of you who were brave enough to comment and to those who supported with me privately with hugs, dinner and kind words of encouragement. I really appreciate it.

mtgoat666 - 8-1-2013 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Tofino was growing...

back in the day we used to do a lot of kayaking starting from Tofino, paddling northward through the islands up to the hot springs. really fun place for multi-day kayak trips! We always took really big tarps because it invariably rained and tarps were only way to create some dry ground to enjoy the rainy days. feasted on oysters/clams off the beach every night. yum

Skipjack Joe - 8-1-2013 at 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari

…hopefully something positive may come of it.

The lesson is that it's really unrealistic to be a presence on a public board like this for years and not expect one's past life to be examined. That's not going to happen and should be expected. Calling it evil, destructive, or a defamation is not, in my opinion, the best way to deal with it. Just present the honest facts and things move on. Hiding facts ("It's not anyone's business") does not help one's cause.

BajaLuna - 8-1-2013 at 09:41 AM

well said, Shari!! There's that old adage..."when one in the village is harmed the whole village is harmed"! And for the good of the whole, things like this should not be allowed. This place is awesome and has so much needed and valuable information for traveling in Baja, living in Baja etc and so many experienced and wise people contribute essential information out of the goodness of their hearts and their passion and love of Baja. I feel like I found a jewel in a treasure box when I found these boards, and I learn so much from all of you and I am veryyy appreciative to all of you...but sometimes the vibe of the boards keep many of us at a distance. And that's really sad because we may be loosing even more valuable information, stories, and experiences that could benefit all of us even more. The bottom line is, this kind of stuff should not be allowed or tolerated and whoever is in charge of monitoring, should not allow it, especially when there is complaints asking for their involvement. I'm all about Peace, love, and fish tacos but stuff like this really turns me off and something like this is not healthy for the overall well being of the forum or the public who happens upon these boards and truly is not in the spirit of community, IMHO! Check your STUFF at the door, and be kind to one another, we all have so much to exchange in a good way with one another!

DavidE - 8-1-2013 at 09:57 AM

To try and make SOMETHING POSITIVE of this...

When I was running a hotel on the cliff overlooking the Pacific Ocean in Michoacan I did something wholly un-Mexican: I offered four months rent for the price of three payable in advance. My kids yelled "That's Nuts (Es Loco)"

But the fact was pure math, the hotel did not rent rooms 75% of the time, far from it. The 3/4 deal was a heck of a lot better than nothing and Brenda had steady breakfast customers and Jesus sold langostas like crazy.

One day two couples arrive. Both from Canada.

They saw the offer posted on the office counter. The rented rooms for 2 nights. Unbeknownst to me they wandered around the village the following day asking about my reputation. David and spouse did not speak all that good of Spanish but Teri (Teresa) Bob's wife is Mexicana, a chilanga from Mexico City.

The next evening they came in a plunked down a wad of peso notes several inches high. "Done Deal!" they both exclaimed. "We asked a dozen people, at three stores and several enramadas (palm frond restaurants)".

Then David, explained. "I am always suspicious of folks". He whipped out a wallet with badge (Gold Shield) and I.D. "Special Investigator Revenue Canada". He went on to explain they all lived in Ottawa. In the succeeding four months we became good friends and I learned a very stout lesson...

If I want to check up on someone, especially some extraneous businessperson living in Mexico I do my homework now and once in awhile I get a nasty shock or really pleasant surprise. The local Mexicans know more, gossip more and are willing to share opinions freely.

David and spouse are hoping to come to Asuncion in October or November for a week. You'll recognize him immediately: Tall, thin, balding (don't tell him I said that!) with a meticulously groomed bright red handlebar mustache. David sells online a natural product to cure yeast infections "I have a money back guarantee - I wouldn't do business any other way".

My point is this - do not be prematurely judgmental! Nor go around depending on blind faith. There are many sides to a story. I put my faith in "la gente" for information concerning Mexico and its residents. They know this country the best - BY FAR!

redmesa - 8-1-2013 at 10:32 AM

Back to Orcas...the seaworld of the pacific in Victoria, B.C closed in 1992 because of a death of an attendant. They forgot that the Blackfin is a predator by nature and not to be taken as a benign creature. Their whales were relocated to other aquariums until they all had premature deaths. Having lived on the north coast for many many years I have had the opportunity to see the Orcas in the wild and in a seaworld setting. The difference in the way they look and behave is shocking. The first time I was out on a fish boat and saw a pod of Orcas the skipper said "note the fins and how straight they are in the wild and then look at the ones in an aquarium."
The Vancouver aquarium still has dolphins and belugas in captivity but there is more and more a movement to eliminate this captivity.

DavidE - 8-1-2013 at 10:53 AM

I can imagine living in a glass box, being fed MRE's and seeing orcas circling the box going "Ooooooo look! Rap on the glass and see if it does something human".

One of the more humane confinements is the San Diego Zoo for terrestrial animals. Several years ago I saw a Tiger stand, stretch outrageously with tongue sticking way out and curling, and then start playing with a "tiger toy".

IMHO a well constructed animal park is a lot more humane. But for aquatic animals especially ultra-intelligent dolphins and orcas I am not at all satisfied that they can tolerate or endure any form of confinement.

To see happy, free gray whales is a treat. When proud mommas push their newborn calves over to pangas so both can be petted and ogled is quite a stirring experience. The whale population is exploding, and all humans had to do is not attempt to confine them or use them for transmission fluid additive. Thank you very much.

monoloco - 8-1-2013 at 01:42 PM

The best thing we can do is to not patronize Sea World and other businesses that display captive marine mammals and do what we can to educate others about the dark side of these ventures. They are in business solely to make a profit, if people are aware they will vote with their feet and these operations will cease to exist.

BajaLuna - 8-1-2013 at 02:42 PM

I'm with ya there, monoloco! I rarely go to zoo's or aquariums because of the animals in cages and I feel my money is my voice!