BajaNomad

fisheries

gringorio - 9-13-2013 at 09:30 PM

Hi everyone,

I know it's been a long while since I've been a consistent part of this community. Despite this absence I have never stopped thinking of, or educating myself on issues related to Baja California MX and the Sea of Cortez. I would love to learn more from the so many of you who are so clearly passionate for what Baja California, the Sea of Cortez and its people bring to you, provide for you and the opportunities you create and use to give back to the communities and the environment of this region.

I'd like to ask for your perspectives and opinions on the long-term changes you have seen and experienced personally. I'm thinking ten years or more, in the areas of commercial vs. recreational fishing, land development and acquisition, the role of environmental organizations in creating biological reserves and protecting endangered species, the role of law enforcement related to these issues (upholding existing laws etc.) and any other perspectives you have related to the 'management' of the entirety of Baja California and Sea of Cortez as both an 'ecosphere', the biological, landscape and human community. I'm thinking of the region from the Colorado River Delta to Tijuana on the Pacific side of the Peninsula.

I am hoping to hear many perspectives. My goal with these questions is to see, 'feel' and understand how tourists, expats, fisherman, land managers and administrators perceive this region and its value as a natural resource for human communities and as important biological reserves.

Looking forward to your replies!

Greg

1026071190-1.jpg - 32kB

vandy - 9-14-2013 at 06:14 AM

" I'm thinking of the region from the Colorado River Delta to Tijuana on the Pacific side of the Peninsula."

What about all the rest of Baja's coast?

Let's see; in 27 years fishing's gone way downhill, development's gone way up, the biological reserves have little to do with sustaining species (look at Loreto Bay, where they allow gill-netting of spawning yellowtail), law enforcement seems to involve trying to collect fines/fees...

Just like the rest of the world, money talks.

One of the more amusing things I've seen is the push for gold mining near/in the Sierra La Laguna Biosphere reserve, with massive demonstrations seeming to block mines in sensitive areas.
As far as I can tell, they are just ploys by the mining companies to boost share prices, as the actual availability of gold is minimally conducive to mining.

Even more amusing is when there ARE enough minerals to mine and huge funds are raised to start operations.
The usual Mexican efficiency at separating investors from their money stops forward progress. Look at Santa Rosalia.

Commercial fishing methods are still inefficient enough to leave us some fish, but give it a dozen years...
"Look, I caught a barrilete!!! AND a puffer!!! Feast tonight!"

That said, it's still the best place in the world that I can drive to.

Osprey - 9-14-2013 at 07:33 AM

Greg, if there is any water at all still flowing into the SOC from the Colorado river system we are about to lose that --- a new water plan for the SW calls for the curtailment of 20 to 30% water release from Glen Canyon dam. This fall the system will run that much less water from Laughlin to the SOC which will hurt Phoenix and all places south of there.

chuckie - 9-14-2013 at 07:34 AM

There can be no question that sport fishing has gone downhill steadily for years. This year at Mulege was the worst I can remember in over 3o years. Species of fish we used to catch with some regularity now seem non existent. Yellowfin tuna- wahoo are examples. We can now go days on the water without catching anything. What causes this? I dont know. There seem to be many more commercial boats than in the past, and way more gill netting by locals.
Development? The flood situation in Mulege has put a big damper on much happening here. Lots of homes for sale or abandoned. Its clear that in some areas something is prompting new business. Along hiway 1, some places appear prosperous. Big developments come and go, but the big footprint places to me, are a negative. (old school)
Economics of living in Baja are not favorable anymore with lots of stuff costing way more than Norte. My biggest expense is gasoline for my boat, and I find myself budgeting for fishing trips. The tradeoff is I seldom drive my truck, using a quad for errands and such.
The confusion in immigration law and the unforseen consequences have many people nervous as well.
AND we must face the fact that the old timers are getting older, and doing reality checks on things like medical, family etc.
Baja is a wonderful place but until the Mexican government cleans up its act on the above issues, thing will continue to slide.
The question posed by the originator of this thread is complex, and the answers more so.

David K - 9-14-2013 at 08:03 AM

Hi Greg,

We have missed you and your web pages for quite some time, so it is with great pleasure to see you back online!

The ocean is most of the earth, lets hope that volcanoes, tsunamis, and earthquakes don't destroy sea life at any greater rate than the animals of this planet would, including man doing stupid or unnecessary things.

Keep up the good work and welcome back!

Geo_Skip - 9-14-2013 at 08:31 AM

You have that right vandy. Small and mid-sized mining companies engage in stock manipulation using prospective resources backed by a fake computer model (who can argue against "Statistics"?) to sell suckers on the stock and push the price up.


If the gold deposit really existed, a major mining company would BUY it.

If it smells the tiniest bit funny, IT Is A SCAM!

The Baja is seeing several of those right now (due to the gold price). The USA and Canada are swamped with scam promoters.

KaceyJ - 9-14-2013 at 08:35 AM

Greg ,

good to see you back,

30 years ago fishing was a reason to go to Baja

Now, we just use it as an excuse .

kc

chuckie - 9-14-2013 at 08:44 AM

+10 ;D

monoloco - 9-14-2013 at 08:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
There can be no question that sport fishing has gone downhill steadily for years. This year at Mulege was the worst I can remember in over 3o years. Species of fish we used to catch with some regularity now seem non existent. Yellowfin tuna- wahoo are examples. We can now go days on the water without catching anything. What causes this? I dont know. There seem to be many more commercial boats than in the past, and way more gill netting by locals.
Development? The flood situation in Mulege has put a big damper on much happening here. Lots of homes for sale or abandoned. Its clear that in some areas something is prompting new business. Along hiway 1, some places appear prosperous. Big developments come and go, but the big footprint places to me, are a negative. (old school)
Economics of living in Baja are not favorable anymore with lots of stuff costing way more than Norte. My biggest expense is gasoline for my boat, and I find myself budgeting for fishing trips. The tradeoff is I seldom drive my truck, using a quad for errands and such.
The confusion in immigration law and the unforseen consequences have many people nervous as well.
AND we must face the fact that the old timers are getting older, and doing reality checks on things like medical, family etc.
Baja is a wonderful place but until the Mexican government cleans up its act on the above issues, thing will continue to slide.
The question posed by the originator of this thread is complex, and the answers more so.
Skeeter will probably be along any minute to tell you that there is still plenty of fish in the SOC, and that you just don't know where to look for them.:lol:

David K - 9-14-2013 at 09:12 AM

Anybody here read Ray Cannon's book?



How about Gene Kira's follow up book?



Some others that told of the way it was...















Aqsurfer - 9-14-2013 at 10:30 AM

Hola Greg,

Baja is lost and the gulf is in a very perilous situation. Earlier in the year I gave a lecture at the Aquarium of the Pacific entitled The Fall of the Sea of Cortez. In it I discussed over-fishing impacts by decade and the efforts to save the peninsula from 2000-2008. I first became involved in conservation efforts in Baja during the campaign to stop Mitsbishi's industrial salt project at Laguna San Ignacio during the mid/late 1990s. From 2000 to 2005, I led the effort to stop the Escalera Nautica and structured the land conservation deal at Laguna San Ignacio in 2005. Critical mistakes and hubris at the NGO director level cost millions of acres on the peninsula. Baja is lost despite these victories.

The link to the lecture I gave at the Aquarium of the Pacific is:

http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/multimedia/player/lecture_a...



The situation is extremely on the water right now is dire. There has been a big shift in fishing effort by commercial interests. These guys are targeting fish reserved to sport fishers under Article 68 of Mexico's Fisheries Law. The big target is dorado - thousands of tons per year (the problem has been growing each year). I am working with Vince Radice and Minerva Saenz on addressing the issue. Check out the documentary A fish Made of Gold produced by French television Talassa3 on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZstAPZqDYmQ


Peace,
Aaron

DavidE - 9-14-2013 at 11:05 AM

God I hate to say this but I can grab my rod and reel, either the one for the "lancha" (they don't know what the word "panga" means down on the mainland) and catch 10 times the fish or twenty times (how does one "percentage" getting fish versus being skunked?) in the open ocean?

"They" would have to close the gulf for ten years to all forms of fishing to allow the stocks to replenish. This is not going to happen and within a few years the Gulf of California is going to be barren. What is the percentage of extraneous that "Come to Baja" to fish, and would not come if the fish go away? I don't know but for the welfare of the Mexicans I am fearful. The last trip over to the other side I saw a monster mid-water dragger, a trawler rigged to tow a huge net dropping to 300' in depth. This vessel was black with a white superstructure. It tows the net at a speed of around six knots. Few fish escape the net's "sock". A vessel like this can "harvest" twenty to thirty tons of fish per pull. To a depth of three hundred feet. Yellowfin Tuna depth. What a sad, sad development this is. It would have killed Ray Cannon and other early day peninsula lovers to had know what this has come to. The gulf is going to become as aesthetic as The Salton Sea. Thousands of hopes and dreams for retirees dashed. Poverty, and hunger for the Mexicans.

Osprey - 9-14-2013 at 11:09 AM

I think I can show you what's gonna happen. I wrote a book about the Sea of Cortez (unpublished) which begins in 1997 and ends in 2032. Each chapter is a snapshot of what we will see if nobody changes anything -- that is, if we just keep on keepin' on.

It's free. U2U me with your Eaddress and I'll zip it to you. Title is A Sensitive Sea. Some Nomads have read it and said they liked it but that it was not prophetic because by the time I finished it many of the things had occurred and it became a history book.

chuckie - 9-14-2013 at 11:21 AM

I didnt say there were no fish, I said it was way worse than it used to be..big difference.....

Aqsurfer - 9-14-2013 at 12:00 PM

DavidE,

Those trawlers working the gulf are permitted for sardine but as you saw they are going after anything that they can haul in. Mexican fisheries at the highest levels are aware of what's going on. The last relatively healthy fish populations are reserved to sport fishers (article 68 - dorado, marlin, sail fish, swordfish, rooster, and tarpon).

Alot of the dorado illegally caught in the gulf ends up in the US in violation of US law. The Lacey Act makes it illegal to transport across state or international boundaries, any species that is illegal to take/catch/kill in its original jurisdiction. We are about to start actions in both countries to address this.

On the opposite end of the spectrum are the small-scale fishers (riberenos). These guys know full well what the situation is but in their desperation are also contributing to the decline. Permit cloning is huge problem. The owner of a permit recruits others to fish under his permit and they have to buy in. Cloned shark permits are the most common. One cloned permit may have a dozen or more pangas working and none of their catch is registered/logged. Absolutely no accounting.

Peace,
Aaron

Peace,
A

Aqsurfer - 9-14-2013 at 12:49 PM

Hola Nomads,

I will be presenting a lecture next week (Thursday Sept 19, 6pm) at San Diego State's Coastal and Marine Institute Laboratory. (address below). I will be discussing the issues discussed in this post.

Fall 2013 Seminar Series


Please join us for the Fall Seminar Series at the Coastal and Marine Institute Laboratory!


All seminars will take place at the Coastal and Marine Institute Laboratory from 6-6:50pm. Refreshments and snacks will proceed each seminar from 5:30-6:00pm in the CMIL lobby. The purpose of the seminar series is to showcase research conducted at SDSU and the Coastal and Marine Institute Laboratory (CMIL) as well as host researchers from other institutions in our field.

Email: mebsa.cmil@gmail.com

Phone: (619) 594-1308

Address:

Attn: MEBSA

Coastal and Marine Institute Laboratory
4165 Spruance Road
San Diego, CA 92101

Driving Directions from downtown San Diego:
1. Take the exit onto I-5 N toward Los Angeles
0.8 mi
2. Exit onto W Hawthorn St
0.8 mi
3. Turn right onto N Harbor Dr
2.2 mi
4. Turn right onto Mc Cain Rd
0.2 mi
5. Take the 1st left onto Spruance Rd
Destination will be on the left
0.1 mi

CMIL
4165 Spruance Rd
San Diego, CA 92101

DaliDali - 9-14-2013 at 01:34 PM

I was reading on Bloody Decks the other day about a tourist angler fellow, bragging and boasting that he used a 7 cubic foot freezer, ran by a generator in the back of his truck, to keep his catch frozen during his trip. And a vacuum sealer to seal em all up.

Others used smaller propane operated freezers then 150 quart Igloos......all for packing with filets of fish.

I know it's legal, based on a daily catch limit......but my gawd!!

the precentages

DaliDali - 9-14-2013 at 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
There can be no question that sport fishing has gone downhill steadily for years. This year at Mulege was the worst I can remember in over 3o years. Species of fish we used to catch with some regularity now seem non existent. Yellowfin tuna- wahoo are examples. We can now go days on the water without catching anything. What causes this? I dont know. There seem to be many more commercial boats than in the past, and way more gill netting by locals.
Development? The flood situation in Mulege has put a big damper on much happening here. Lots of homes for sale or abandoned. Its clear that in some areas something is prompting new business. Along hiway 1, some places appear prosperous. Big developments come and go, but the big footprint places to me, are a negative. (old school)
Economics of living in Baja are not favorable anymore with lots of stuff costing way more than Norte. My biggest expense is gasoline for my boat, and I find myself budgeting for fishing trips. The tradeoff is I seldom drive my truck, using a quad for errands and such.
The confusion in immigration law and the unforseen consequences have many people nervous as well.
AND we must face the fact that the old timers are getting older, and doing reality checks on things like medical, family etc.
Baja is a wonderful place but until the Mexican government cleans up its act on the above issues, thing will continue to slide.
The question posed by the originator of this thread is complex, and the answers more so.

Skeeter will probably be along any minute to tell you that there is still plenty of fish in the SOC, and that you just don't know where to look for them.:lol:


10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-14-2013 at 02:16 PM

Gentleman and Scholars and you to Monoloco!!

Aqsurfer: Before going on with this discussion would you please give us a Resume , such as "Time on the Waters of the Sea Of Cortez", Educational background, Universities Attended. AGE.
Most on this board are famliliar with my Experience on the Cortez.
Arriving for my first visit in my little Cessna170b in October 1968 leaving fulltime in 2001. Many trips fishing since that time.

The first few years where different to some extent as there was decline in the fisheries due to many reasons. Commercial fishing in selected area, The taking of the Sierra for Fertilizer, The over fishing near San Felipe of the Totuva, The Japanese being run out of the Sea . The massive taking of the Squid etc.
Recently the decline in the Sport Fishing resulting in the "Less Fish reported being caught.",the decline of the Panga and old time mexcano Fisherman.


Also we must include the new fangled Electronic Fishing. which cause Fisherman to come back to a good Spot to find no Fish:They have Moved!!"

See next Post

Skeet/Loreto

Skeet/Loreto - 9-14-2013 at 02:29 PM

Next I will suggest to Agsurfer. the following:
Get yourself a fair sized boat that you can stay on and that you can take along a Panga. Very limited Electronic Gear.
Learn to dive and Snorkel take a good underwater camera as well as fishing gear. A Penn 4/0 with 20/40 lb lb Test and a Penn 6/0 with 120 Lb.
Go meet and Hire Alvarro Murillo of Loreto to go with you and tell him I sent you.

Have Alvarro take you to The Point North of San Nicholas and Investigate the places he took me over the years to the Isla of San Jose to the South.

Note: At San Nicholas I watched as they took out all the Sierra
.now they are coming back!!

The fish are still in the Sea of Cortez and will always be there. They come and go just like the Sharks, Whales and all others. Recently I observed the fish on the top of the water in Thousands, which I had not seen in the past 5 years.

I have snorkled recently at Del Elfonso Island and seen Millions of fish. And Gentleman where do you think the Fish that Bill Erhart is catching on the Pacific Side are coming from??????? In and out of the Sea on Cycle

Next Post
Skeet.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-14-2013 at 02:39 PM

I lived at San Nicholas full time for 4 years with the Murillo Family, I lived in Loreto for 16 years full time, I owned and operated a Panga for 27 years, I and my Wife built Rancho Sonrisa on the Beach out North, It is now gone. Sad for me.
I fished many , many days, the largest fish caught was a 800 Lb Dusky Shark, his teeth hanging on my wall.

In the past 10 years there has been many
Spam" Stories about Fishing the Sea of Cortez, one the Worst story coming out of the Sacramento Calif. Paper, I think in 1998.
The change in our Culture has also had something to do with those Phoney Stories.
People Tell any kind of Lies to gain Donors and Members, trying to Scare them and make them think the Sky is Falling etc.

If you want to know the Truth you must go out and Investigate and report FACTS!!

I will not "Cheat, Lie, nor Steal from you. I will answer any Question to the Best of my Knowledge and Experience.

vandy - 9-14-2013 at 02:51 PM

HMMMM...When I hear Skeet, all I can think of is..
"PULL!":lol:

Aqsurfer - 9-14-2013 at 03:13 PM

Hola Skeet,

Happy to provide some background. I have been a longtime visitor of the Bajanomad site but have not joined until recently. I try to stay away from petty and personal sqaubles that seem to develop on forums - don't need the bs. The following is not intended as a peeing contest, you asked for background.

I grew in Imperial Beach to parents who were avid sportfishers and baja rats. My extended family has lived for generations in San Diego, San Francisco, LA, Tijuana, Ensenada, Todos Santos and La Paz. The first time that I traveled the length of the peninsula with my family from San Diego to Cabo overland was during the winter of 69-70. My family have been friends with some big names in baja fishing including Tony Reyes, the Mora family of San Nicolas, and Lalo Marques of Ensenada ( I could go on but don't see the point, but you asked). I have spent plenty of time on the water and know the difference between throwing hooks and fishing. We have also owned plenty of very nice fishing boats over the years - with lots of time in the gulf.

I have 25 years of ocean lifeguard exerience and am certified as a Rescue Diver, Rescue Boat Operator, PWC Operator, the list goes on. All of these skills I have used to play in baja and the gulf. I have started 5 lifeguard programs in Baja.

I have surfed for 40 years - all over the world including everywhere in Baja.

Education: degrees in History, Political Science, & Juris Doctor (law).

I led a great team including Rodrigo Jara and Fernando Ochoa in stopping the the Mexican government's $1.7 billion Escalera Nautica project (27 resort-marinas). In 2005, I led the effort to permanently protect the last pristine gray whale birthing lagoon on the planet - Laguna San Ignacio. I structured the landmark conservation deal that has generated a significant income stream for the community. Last year with Rodrigo Jara, we put together the strategy to stop Sempra energy's proposed massive industrial scale wind farm in the Sierra Juarez. Also last year, I worked collaboratively with Ensenada's longline fleet in addressing a growing issue of incidental bycatch of federally protected Layson Albatross. The albatross recently established a new colony on Isla Guadalupe (where I have also fished and dived, non-charter). We were able to resolve the issue win-win by deploying tori lines (a tecnique developed by japanese fishers to prevent sea bird bycath). There is plenty more I can add but these are the highlights.

Right now I am working with Vince on the dorado issue. I can tell you that the gulf is in trouble. The spigot on delta is shutting off. Towns are growing into cities - poaching, crime, pollution etc etc. Fishers from other parts of mex are now moving to the gulf. ask the guys on the boats. Commercial fishers are currently very seriously shifting fishing effort and the Mex government - puez ni que decir.

Hope this provides some background.
Peace,
Aaron

chuckie - 9-14-2013 at 03:29 PM

The island is "Ildefonso" south of Mulege...yes there are fish. No there arent as many. I can also recount tales of 20years ago..71 Dorado in one day, Yellowfin tuna till my arms were sore..Like it or not, its no more..Thats reality..

Skeet/Loreto - 9-14-2013 at 03:34 PM

Thank you! Aaron:

You have spent many hours in your efforts.
For your information after 3 years in the Navy,2 years in the combat Zone, I got out and went to Fresno Stafe for a Degree in Criminal Investigation/Police Science. 3 years as Special Investigator Hollywood, 2 years in south Central LA, Decided I did not want to be a Police man ended up as Aviation Accident Investigator , Claims Investigator for the Western Nevada Brothells.

.Aaron I do not have respect for the Sierra Club nor the Global Warming Fiascos.
The investigators lied, changed Numbers and info.

You will need to get out on the Water and spend some time,

I agree that Baja is being ruined on the Beach with all the Ugly Americans and Canadians moving in and being AHoles.
that is the reason I left and came back to Texas.

Good luck on your "Investigation as to the Ruining of the Sea,
I do not agree with you but in this world you sure have the right to Speak.

Skeet

Aqsurfer - 9-14-2013 at 03:45 PM

Hola Skeet,

Thanks for your thoughts and acknowledging that reasonable people can disagree. We have spent considerable time (decades on the gulf) - Vince is on the water daily and I get on it 2-3 times a month. We have very strong evidence of what is going on and things are definitely bad.

We hope to mke a difference.

Peace,
Aaron

woody with a view - 9-14-2013 at 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aqsurfer
Hola Skeet,

Happy to provide some background. I have been a longtime visitor of the Bajanomad site but have not joined until recently. I try to stay away from petty and personal sqaubles that seem to develop on forums - don't need the bs. The following is not intended as a ******* contest, you asked for background.

I grew in Imperial Beach to parents who were avid sportfishers and baja rats. My extended family has lived for generations in San Diego, San Francisco, LA, Tijuana, Ensenada, Todos Santos and La Paz. The first time that I traveled the length of the peninsula with my family from San Diego to Cabo overland was during the winter of 69-70. My family have been friends with some big names in baja fishing including Tony Reyes, the Mora family of San Nicolas, and Lalo Marques of Ensenada ( I could go on but don't see the point, but you asked). I have spent plenty of time on the water and know the difference between throwing hooks and fishing. We have also owned plenty of very nice fishing boats over the years - with lots of time in the gulf.

I have 25 years of ocean lifeguard exerience and am certified as a Rescue Diver, Rescue Boat Operator, PWC Operator, the list goes on. All of these skills I have used to play in baja and the gulf. I have started 5 lifeguard programs in Baja.

I have surfed for 40 years - all over the world including everywhere in Baja.

Education: degrees in History, Political Science, & Juris Doctor (law).

I led a great team including Rodrigo Jara and Fernando Ochoa in stopping the the Mexican government's $1.7 billion Escalera Nautica project (27 resort-marinas). In 2005, I led the effort to permanently protect the last pristine gray whale birthing lagoon on the planet - Laguna San Ignacio. I structured the landmark conservation deal that has generated a significant income stream for the community. Last year with Rodrigo Jara, we put together the strategy to stop Sempra energy's proposed massive industrial scale wind farm in the Sierra Juarez. Also last year, I worked collaboratively with Ensenada's longline fleet in addressing a growing issue of incidental bycatch of federally protected Layson Albatross. The albatross recently established a new colony on Isla Guadalupe (where I have also fished and dived, non-charter). We were able to resolve the issue win-win by deploying tori lines (a tecnique developed by japanese fishers to prevent sea bird bycath). There is plenty more I can add but these are the highlights.

Right now I am working with Vince on the dorado issue. I can tell you that the gulf is in trouble. The spigot on delta is shutting off. Towns are growing into cities - poaching, crime, pollution etc etc. Fishers from other parts of mex are now moving to the gulf. ask the guys on the boats. Commercial fishers are currently very seriously shifting fishing effort and the Mex government - puez ni que decir.

Hope this provides some background.
Peace,
Aaron


Welcome to the jungle, sir!

From one waterman to another!

Bubba - 9-15-2013 at 01:43 PM

Have to agree. I've seen a decline in the number and grade of fish caught on the East Cape over the past 20 yrs.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-15-2013 at 03:20 PM

Aqsurfer"
For your information Pantex, the place where they Demolish Bombs just announced the building of the largest Wind Generator s in the US.It will be built on their property to the North of amarillo. The people here are very excited as they realize the Jobs and Money it will bring.

Aqsufer the Sea of Cortes is not going to be ruined unlss somehow they can close off the Opening from La Pas to the Mainland. There is talk now of bringing water from Canada down the Colorado and into the Sea. It would sure open up all that good land around Los Mochas and beyond.

Good Luck

Skeet

gringorio - 9-15-2013 at 11:04 PM

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for your replies! Sorry for the late response: Been dealing with a flooding house and being trapped in the hills above Boulder, CO. Over 18" of rain in three days has been reported in areas of this storm. Crazy!

I really appreciate everyone's reply to my initial question and thoughts. Native Mexicans, full time alien residents, tourists, and commercial and recreational fishermen, NGO's and scientists are, I feel, all an integral part of the input diagnostics required to filter out and focus on the many important pieces of this issue in general terms. If the diagnostics are faulty, then so too are the conclusions. This points to the need for accurate reporting of catches and consistent and timely law enforcement among other things.

Same too for the science behind the conclusion of the reported trends. Since science is more structured and more often peer reviewed, I mostly tend toward believing scientific studies published in peer-reviewed literature over anecdotal reports.

It is a complex issue, but you, we, are all of that complexity!

That said, based on over a decade of field work (as a field biologist on the ground recording data on birds, mammals, plants and marine reptiles) with various species, I also see the point of view of the 'boots on the ground': the farmers, ranchers, recreational fishermen, the sailors, the tourists, the biological field technicians ...

*That* said, I also have seen, too often, a disbelief in the scientific method expressed in the news and various forums. As if it is some sort of voodoo used to secure a paycheck, in that it allows for lying and cheating to support some preconceived notion or agenda and continued employment. I have personally been involved with multiple academic, State and Federal projects with academic, State and Federal Principal Investigators who never once 'bent' the data to fit their own preconceived notions or agendas, or continued employment, for that matter.

I decided to make this post because I first and foremost love Baja and the Sea of Cortez with all my heart, more than any place on Earth. I love the people, the landscapes and all its critters, from land to sea. I came to love them because I first experienced Baja and the Sea with a preconceived notion, one built on my own imagination. Once I spent time there that notion was demolished because the Sea, the desert and the people showed me what Baja and the Sea really were - diverse, loving, harsh, truthful, challenging and welcoming.

My first experience with the Sea was in 1974, as a kid at Rocky Point. My last experiences were a few kayak trips, alone and with my brother in the Sea along the Baja Peninsula and Colorado River Delta, with some field work and other adventures there in between.

Along with what you all have already shared, I still feel there is more, more personal anecdotes of what was and what is. Even if those two things are the same and nothing has changed, as Skeet implies. I hope to have my own 'what was and what is' story soon enough.

I'd love to hear more from all of you old hands and new hands too, what your observations are. Agreeing to disagree along the way if needed ...

Greg

DSC_8364 the wall.jpg - 35kB

Skipjack Joe - 9-16-2013 at 12:25 AM

Greg,

As you know the peninsula and it's surrounding waters is being destroyed due to poor stewardship by it's owners.

I want to relate a phone conversation I just had with my buddy in Juneau, Alaska. He was just cited $100 by Fish and Game for breaking the law while crab fishing. His crime? He used those small plastic lock downs to hold down the gates to the cages where the crabs are removed. He was told that he needed to use biodegradable material so that if the pot is lost all attachments will rot in short order.

That is why alaska remains the way it does and why baja is declining rapidly. Alaskans care.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-16-2013 at 06:29 AM

Gringorio:
I support your efforts!

Yes the Sea has changed since I started fishing with Alvarro Murillo in 1968.
There are nay changes and causes but to say that the Sea is Ruined is not true, There are many old areas where the fish have declined and many new Aeas where fish have increased or comeback after be fished out.

I think it will necessary for someone to do a "Steinbecl/Ricckets Investigation of the Sea then take acions to change.

"Common Sense " is the best!!!

David K - 9-16-2013 at 09:18 AM

Hi Greg,

I hope you weather the flooding without much damage...

Did enough of the Colorado rains fall on the western drainage of the mountain to charge the Colorado River so that it might fill Lake Mead and/or allow the dams to open their flood gates and 'flush' water all the way to the Gulf of California, again?

DavidE - 9-16-2013 at 09:41 AM

It's not just the gulf. Ancient aquifers are being sucked dry and there is absolutely no way to replenish them. Absolutely no sophistication in trying to reclaim gray water in the capes region. Again in a dozen years maybe less, the peninsula is going to have the aesthetics of The Salton Sea. Then the "Big Migration" begins where the gente move to the mainland. Talk about lack of planning - coconut palms could be planted in nice beaches. They require fresh water for only a short time, then they suck seawater while stuck in the most impoverished looking beach sand you can imagine. Huge plantations of coconut palms could shade beaches and make many camping areas a lot more attractive to a lot more people. You ought to hear the comments by RV'ers on the mainland...

"I do not like to camp in Baja California because there is NO SHADE. It's much prettier here."

And so it goes...

Cypress - 9-16-2013 at 09:54 AM

Wish all of you Sea of Cortez fishermen luck. I've seen the light and moved on to fishing grounds that are protected , where the fishing is getting better each year. The pelagics come and go, but the "canary in the coal mine" are the resident reef fish; snapper, grouper, etc. Everything, given time, if not totally extinct can make a comeback.

redhilltown - 9-16-2013 at 11:39 PM

Cypress nails it. The sustainable fishing future of the Sea of Cortez is up to the Mexicans and hopefully others that care. In a relative sense, no other body of water in the world could be more easily protected and fishing rules enforced...but I ain't holding my breath.

gringorio - 9-20-2013 at 10:27 AM

David,

I'm afraid most of the water fell on the eastern slope of the Rockies... That much rain on the western slope would have been great but still probably would not have come close to filling up 'Lake Fowell' much less made it to the Sea =0(
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Hi Greg,

I hope you weather the flooding without much damage...

Did enough of the Colorado rains fall on the western drainage of the mountain to charge the Colorado River so that it might fill Lake Mead and/or allow the dams to open their flood gates and 'flush' water all the way to the Gulf of California, again?

new book

gringorio - 9-20-2013 at 10:30 AM

Along this subject there is a new book out. It's called 'Telling Our Way to the Sea' by Aaron Hirsh. Friends have given good feedback about it.

I'll start reading my copy soon ...

durrelllrobert - 9-20-2013 at 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
I can also recount tales of 20years ago..71 Dorado in one day, Yellowfin tuna till my arms were sore..Like it or not, its no more..Thats reality..


Maybe that's why?

chuckie - 9-20-2013 at 04:17 PM

On the Dorado day we were fishing around a dead whale, 2 of us...al lbut 3 of those fish went back....If you had ever caught a big Yellowfin tuna , it onle takes a couple to make your arms sore....cheap shot....

durrelllrobert - 9-20-2013 at 04:30 PM

Hola Aaron. You wrote I have been a longtime visitor of the Bajanomad site but have not joined until recently" and since your profile says "member since 7-6-2003" it made me a little curious so I checked you out on the members list. Sure enough that is when you joined but more significantly it says that your site is Wildcoast Costa Salvaje (costasalvaje.com). COSTASALVAjE is an international conservation group whose mission is to conserve marine and coastal ecosystems and wildlife. Thats a very good organization. What is your position there?

shari - 9-20-2013 at 04:41 PM

As many of you know central baja has very strong fishing cooperativas that have won international awards for sustainable stewardship of this area for lobster & abalone...something everyone is proud of here...bravo.

They spend alot of money on protecting thier resource with excellent "vigilancia"...patrols to keep poachers out of their concessions and respect quotas and reproductive periods. Net fishing was supposed to be banned this year but we still are seeing halibut nets around.

We also live in a biosphere reserve which is a grand concept but does have it's drawbacks for the local people. For example, people who have been fishing here for generations who used to take visitors fishing...would like to get into the sport fishing industry but find it next to impossible to do so.

The permit process is so expensive & complicated that few of them are successful which is a shame as they are very knowledgeable fishermen & great guides. But they simply cant get through the red tape and would need much more business to make even a small profit taking into account the high cost of obtaining permits. Many have tried & failed which I feel is a flaw in the system.

As the fisheries of the world decline, the village folk may need to look to a new type of fishery....smaller limits or catch & release sport fishing and I think government should make it more accessible to the local people.

DianaT - 9-21-2013 at 07:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari


We also live in a biosphere reserve which is a grand concept but does have it's drawbacks for the local people. For example, people who have been fishing here for generations who used to take visitors fishing...would like to get into the sport fishing industry but find it next to impossible to do so.

The permit process is so expensive & complicated that few of them are successful which is a shame as they are very knowledgeable fishermen & great guides. But they simply cant get through the red tape and would need much more business to make even a small profit taking into account the high cost of obtaining permits. Many have tried & failed which I feel is a flaw in the system.
....


They are quite limited in their ability to compete as most of them have limited English skills so they do not have the access to all the free internet advertising in English and the bulk of the clients are English speakers.


[Edited on 9-21-2013 by DianaT]

DavidE - 9-21-2013 at 08:45 AM

I remember RV'ers canning hundreds and hundreds of jars of yellowtail on gulf beaches then screaming when the marinas came around and confiscated the canning equipment and canned fish.

They took it home, at some, gave even more away and let more than a little go bad and it had to be hauled to the dump. I saw this happen with my own eyes from hooking to dumping - and it disgusted me.

So when midwater draggers show up to complete the job I just shake my head. I am assured by the sons of friends that the Sierra Nevada wilderness areas are still superb - like the Yosemite North Boundary Sister Lakes Area.

The "Sea of Cortez" is finished. Kaput. If they wipe out the humbolt squid for use as fertilizer there goes the dorado. Might as well go fish the Otay Lakes.

Don't worry about Biospheres. When a million pesceros start hammering at gobernacion "ways" will be found to violate the biospheres as well. Limited fishing, less enforcement. The sardines are getting wiped out - fast. The cooperativas are begging for customers. It won't be long before sardines are netted for fertilizer to keep the boats working.

DianaT - 9-23-2013 at 07:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
.....

Don't worry about Biospheres. When a million pesceros start hammering at gobernacion "ways" will be found to violate the biospheres as well. Limited fishing, less enforcement. The sardines are getting wiped out - fast........


The Biosphere is not an easy concept. We would like to think of it as a well protected reserve, but a part of it includes economic and commercial development. Also, it is VERY understaffed and underfunded and as far as some of those commercial fishing boats from the mainland, well often the money and influence are taken care on the mainland.

The work the local Reserve has done has been good work, BUT far from perfect and with way more to go and there are always conflicting agencies involved with different goals. Shoot, there was talk for a while of an oil refinery being built on part of the ejido land, but fortunately it did not happen.

As far as fishing goes, I have heard from a number of locals who want to preserve the fisheries how much they resent outsiders who come and fish and take home ice chest after ice chest full of fish. Maybe it makes a difference, and maybe it doesn't, especially in light of the commercial fishing boats.

[Edited on 9-23-2013 by DianaT]

Skipjack Joe - 9-23-2013 at 07:38 AM

The number of calico bass being fished in that area is more than those kelp beds can sustain. The beds around San Roque and the islands aren't large enough for the amount of fish the tourists are bringing back. Those fish were never targeted by the locals until tourists started to appear in bigger numbers.

gringorio - 9-30-2013 at 06:12 PM

Thanks everyone for your feedback to my question. Really interesting answers. All of you have so much information and history on the Sea. I have to say, the observations shared here are a bit depressing. :no:

Aqsurfer - 10-2-2013 at 04:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Hola Aaron. You wrote I have been a longtime visitor of the Bajanomad site but have not joined until recently" and since your profile says "member since 7-6-2003" it made me a little curious so I checked you out on the members list. Sure enough that is when you joined but more significantly it says that your site is Wildcoast Costa Salvaje (costasalvaje.com). COSTASALVAjE is an international conservation group whose mission is to conserve marine and coastal ecosystems and wildlife. Thats a very good organization. What is your position there?


Hola Robert,

Guess its time to edit my profile. I have not worked for wildcoast since 2005. I was fired 2-days after securing the financing (millions of dollars) for the Laguna San Ignacio Conservation Alliance project (LSICA). After firing me, the director of wildcoast took credit for a project that he had nothing to do with. The real heroes were Miguel Vargas of Pronatura, Fernando Ochoa of Derecho Ambiental del Noroeste, and myself. I structured the conservation strategy, wrote the project proposal, secured the financing, and together with the Miguel and Fernando made it happen. A lot of credit also goes to Joel Reynolds and Jacob Scherr. They had NRDC join the LSICA, they were critical to the project's (limited success). I say limited because only one of the six ejidos have signed conservation agreements since 2005. Though I am proud to say that this project definitively killed the Mitsubishi Salt project - it was lurking in the shadows for many years. I am currently writing a book about what happened and why Baja is lost.

The sad thing is that this didn't have to happen. The other place that the wildcoast director blew it at was at the Ejido la Purisima (1-million acres including the entire Bahia Concepcion peninsula and the San Gregorio wetland south of San Juanico). Working with Miguel Vargas, we structured conservation strategies that were fair to the ejidos, could have provided them with significant funding sources and created ejido focus on environmental stewardship. In 2002, the ejido La Purisima overwhelmingly voted in favor of our conservation agreement. I submitted a memo outlining the agreement, timeline and funding requirements. wildcoast's director informed me that he was not going to submit the project for funding. No reason has ever been given. Carlos Slim now owns the 125,000 acre Bahia Concepcion peninsula. Muy triste.

I outlined what happened during these critical years during my lecture at the Aquarium of the Pacific. Here is the link to the webpage where you can stream it, let me know what you think:

http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/multimedia/player/lecture_a...

Peace,
Aaron

ps. off to Bahia Asuncion with the lifeguards on Tuesday.

David K - 10-2-2013 at 04:47 PM

Thank you for that inside look into an eco organization that rakes in $$$ in the name of the environment.

I am wondering, can't a Mexican born organization have better results, so it doesn't appear like do-gooders from other countries are telling the locals who they can sell land to?

Wildcoast (I thought) was trying to keep development out of the Seven Sisters area by buying the coast? After so many years collecting funds, they have bought only 2 miles of the 200 mile coast, last I read???

Thank you for joining Nomad and sharing your experiences!!

Aqsurfer - 10-2-2013 at 05:38 PM

Hola David,

The money is public record and should be available on their website. If you can't find it, email them directly and ask for it.

Mexican NGO.

Up until 2005 when I was fired, wildcoast was working with a very good Mexican NGO, Pronatura. The true partnership broke apart on very bad terms and wildcoast formed costa salvage (a mexican ngo, led by its american counterpart). The problem with Pornatura is that they never recovered from the tragedy of the Ejido La Purisima. I refer to that catastrophic error by wildcoast's director as the Ghost of Bahia Concepcion. I talk about all this in the Aquarium of the Pacific lecture. Check it out.

They have been buying surfing points. The problem with their strategy is that they should have worked out deals that included entire ejidos instead of selective land purchases. A couple of things here. First, the initial round of purchases were made during the global economic catastrophe and the height of the narco violence. If you thought things were bad in the US, Mex got hit far worse = desperate people. That meant unequal bargaining power in land negotiations, the director bragged about it. Here is what he told a KPBS reporter.

http://www.wildcoast.net/media-center/news/525-environmental...

They should have used the Laguna San Ignacio Alliance model. Basically, a one-time significant direct payment to each ejido member and the establishment of a conservation trust fund, in exchange for ejido-wide conservation agreements. This type of conservation agreement provides communities with an annual payment that can be used for micro-credit programs, educational grants for their kids, medicinal grants to the elderly, etc. If you ever go whale watching in San Ignacio, talk to the folks there about their trust fund and how it is being used.

Second, selective purchases only start mass lands sales. The money from these purchases was probably spent within a short period of time - the usual stuff, a new truck (broke down within a year, need a new one), new appliances/furniture for the misses, loans to friends/family and a nice trip somewhere. Money is quickly gone but lots more land to sell.

Watch what happens, a paved road is in the works. During a surf trip years ago, I came across a road surveying crew in the 7-sisters. We stopped and talked to the crew. They said they were surveying the future road through Rancho Santa Catarina to Santa Rosalillita. They also said that the Gonzaga road would be built first - one down, one to go.

Not good.
Peace,
Aaron

fishbuck - 10-2-2013 at 07:26 PM

It ain't all bad folks. Take a look.

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/showthread.php/516916-WFO!!...

[Edited on 10-3-2013 by fishbuck]

gringorio - 10-2-2013 at 08:26 PM

Since most, if not all, of you who responded to my initial inquiry, I have to ask: Why does it seem recreational fishermen seem to think their activities have little or no effect on fish populations. Personally, I assume that recreational fishing has an affect on wild fish populations as well as does commercial fishing.

Is there any recent data on the mortality rates of commonly targeted "catch and release" sport fish?

fishbuck - 10-2-2013 at 09:35 PM

Casting a pretty wide net on that aren't you?
Big diference between a guy fishing from a tin boat and a San Diego party fishing boat in terms of "recreational" fishing don't you think?
Quote:
Originally posted by gringorio
Since most, if not all, of you who responded to my initial inquiry, I have to ask: Why does it seem recreational fishermen seem to think their activities have little or no effect on fish populations. Personally, I assume that recreational fishing has an affect on wild fish populations as well as does commercial fishing.

Is there any recent data on the mortality rates of commonly targeted "catch and release" sport fish?

gringorio - 10-2-2013 at 09:52 PM

Hi Fishbuck,

I don't know how wide the net can be cast, but I suspect it includes all players.

I am thinking that it doesn't matter if a recreational fisherman or a commercial fisherman catches (and kills) reproductively active fish. Or catches a fish before it can reproduce. Both circumstances lead to the same end: No new fish.

If the situation in the Sea as is dire as most have said in this thread, then recreational fishermen also have to take responsibility for the decline as well and not just blame the commercial fisheries. (I do recognize commercial fisheries, gill-netting etc. have a large impact).

In other words: Everyone is to blame and everyone (who takes part in fishing the Sea) should take responsibility for the decline and help take action in a way that reverses the trend.

So, back to the last question asked in another way: What impact does the recreational fishery have on fish populations in the Sea of Cortez?

mtgoat666 - 10-2-2013 at 09:53 PM

Catch and release! No one who cares about the environment and the resources takes home so much fish they need a second freezer in the garage!

I like wild coast. They have a good message, and an interesting vibe that seems to connect with youth. No org is perfect, good thing that most do much more more good than bad.

fishbuck - 10-2-2013 at 10:08 PM

These are good points for sure. All one has to do is look north of the border to know what will eventually happen to the waters off Baja and SOC.
An example is the rockfish of the California coast. This is strictly a recreation fish but even it is nearly wipped out forcing closure of some areas where they spawn just to make sure they can survive.
The recreational boats will achor on top of the rockpile where these fish live everyday and haul out as many as they can. The fish are tiny because as soon as 1 reaches legal size it is put in a fish sack. Any undersize fish will be caught a little later in the season.
The so called sustainable fishery can probably exist but who gets to say what is sustainable?
Your scientist or mine?
I mean the Tuna Club is on Catalina Island but good luck finding a tuna anywhere out there. There are a few being chased by hundreds of boats.
Don't know if it is true but I've heard stories that tuna and yellowtail were thick just outside Newport Harbor.
Where are they now?

monoloco - 10-2-2013 at 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gringorio
Since most, if not all, of you who responded to my initial inquiry, I have to ask: Why does it seem recreational fishermen seem to think their activities have little or no effect on fish populations. Personally, I assume that recreational fishing has an affect on wild fish populations as well as does commercial fishing.

Is there any recent data on the mortality rates of commonly targeted "catch and release" sport fish?
I've been seeing some big impact here the last few days. There are thousands of dorado right now in this area, and I've been witnessing gross overfishing by both gringos and Mexican pangeros. I had one pangero tell me straight out that he already had 70 fish in the boat, and this was at 10:30am, I have seen several gringos bring in 15+ dorados, unfortunately about 75% of the fish being taken are big females that are engorged with roe. It breaks my heart to see the resource being hammered like this, especially since it's so easy to ID and release the females. It's really sad that people who depend on the sea for their livelihood could be so short sighted.

Osprey - 10-3-2013 at 06:00 AM

Mother nature's miracle fish. Female dorados lay up to 400,000 eggs in the open ocean every six weeks. When the eggs become fry they can, at times, increase their weight by 10% a day.

Sea farmers, fishermen, are like farmers anywhere. If you had a garden that produced that often and grew that fast you would harvest it every time the crop was ready to be eaten, sold, packaged, shipped.

The other wonder here is why men, Mexico and others have waited so long to annihilate them completely. We are so lucky to enjoy this wonder we can only count our blessings and do what we can, on every level, to preserve this treasure. Go gringorio!