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gringorio
Senior Nomad
Posts: 812
Registered: 4-10-2004
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Member Is Offline
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fisheries
Hi everyone,
I know it's been a long while since I've been a consistent part of this community. Despite this absence I have never stopped thinking of, or
educating myself on issues related to Baja California MX and the Sea of Cortez. I would love to learn more from the so many of you who are so clearly
passionate for what Baja California, the Sea of Cortez and its people bring to you, provide for you and the opportunities you create and use to give
back to the communities and the environment of this region.
I'd like to ask for your perspectives and opinions on the long-term changes you have seen and experienced personally. I'm thinking ten years or more,
in the areas of commercial vs. recreational fishing, land development and acquisition, the role of environmental organizations in creating biological
reserves and protecting endangered species, the role of law enforcement related to these issues (upholding existing laws etc.) and any other
perspectives you have related to the 'management' of the entirety of Baja California and Sea of Cortez as both an 'ecosphere', the biological,
landscape and human community. I'm thinking of the region from the Colorado River Delta to Tijuana on the Pacific side of the Peninsula.
I am hoping to hear many perspectives. My goal with these questions is to see, 'feel' and understand how tourists, expats, fisherman, land managers
and administrators perceive this region and its value as a natural resource for human communities and as important biological reserves.
Looking forward to your replies!
Greg
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vandy
Senior Nomad
Posts: 538
Registered: 10-10-2003
Member Is Offline
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" I'm thinking of the region from the Colorado River Delta to Tijuana on the Pacific side of the Peninsula."
What about all the rest of Baja's coast?
Let's see; in 27 years fishing's gone way downhill, development's gone way up, the biological reserves have little to do with sustaining species (look
at Loreto Bay, where they allow gill-netting of spawning yellowtail), law enforcement seems to involve trying to collect fines/fees...
Just like the rest of the world, money talks.
One of the more amusing things I've seen is the push for gold mining near/in the Sierra La Laguna Biosphere reserve, with massive demonstrations
seeming to block mines in sensitive areas.
As far as I can tell, they are just ploys by the mining companies to boost share prices, as the actual availability of gold is minimally conducive to
mining.
Even more amusing is when there ARE enough minerals to mine and huge funds are raised to start operations.
The usual Mexican efficiency at separating investors from their money stops forward progress. Look at Santa Rosalia.
Commercial fishing methods are still inefficient enough to leave us some fish, but give it a dozen years...
"Look, I caught a barrilete!!! AND a puffer!!! Feast tonight!"
That said, it's still the best place in the world that I can drive to.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Greg, if there is any water at all still flowing into the SOC from the Colorado river system we are about to lose that --- a new water plan for the SW
calls for the curtailment of 20 to 30% water release from Glen Canyon dam. This fall the system will run that much less water from Laughlin to the SOC
which will hurt Phoenix and all places south of there.
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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There can be no question that sport fishing has gone downhill steadily for years. This year at Mulege was the worst I can remember in over 3o years.
Species of fish we used to catch with some regularity now seem non existent. Yellowfin tuna- wahoo are examples. We can now go days on the water
without catching anything. What causes this? I dont know. There seem to be many more commercial boats than in the past, and way more gill netting by
locals.
Development? The flood situation in Mulege has put a big damper on much happening here. Lots of homes for sale or abandoned. Its clear that in some
areas something is prompting new business. Along hiway 1, some places appear prosperous. Big developments come and go, but the big footprint places to
me, are a negative. (old school)
Economics of living in Baja are not favorable anymore with lots of stuff costing way more than Norte. My biggest expense is gasoline for my boat, and
I find myself budgeting for fishing trips. The tradeoff is I seldom drive my truck, using a quad for errands and such.
The confusion in immigration law and the unforseen consequences have many people nervous as well.
AND we must face the fact that the old timers are getting older, and doing reality checks on things like medical, family etc.
Baja is a wonderful place but until the Mexican government cleans up its act on the above issues, thing will continue to slide.
The question posed by the originator of this thread is complex, and the answers more so.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64757
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Hi Greg,
We have missed you and your web pages for quite some time, so it is with great pleasure to see you back online!
The ocean is most of the earth, lets hope that volcanoes, tsunamis, and earthquakes don't destroy sea life at any greater rate than the animals of
this planet would, including man doing stupid or unnecessary things.
Keep up the good work and welcome back!
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Geo_Skip
Nomad
Posts: 154
Registered: 5-15-2009
Location: Alta California and......../
Member Is Offline
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You have that right vandy. Small and mid-sized mining companies engage in stock manipulation using prospective resources backed by a fake computer
model (who can argue against "Statistics"?) to sell suckers on the stock and push the price up.
If the gold deposit really existed, a major mining company would BUY it.
If it smells the tiniest bit funny, IT Is A SCAM!
The Baja is seeing several of those right now (due to the gold price). The USA and Canada are swamped with scam promoters.
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KaceyJ
Nomad
Posts: 391
Registered: 10-7-2011
Location: there
Member Is Offline
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Greg ,
good to see you back,
30 years ago fishing was a reason to go to Baja
Now, we just use it as an excuse .
kc
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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+10 
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by chuckie
There can be no question that sport fishing has gone downhill steadily for years. This year at Mulege was the worst I can remember in over 3o years.
Species of fish we used to catch with some regularity now seem non existent. Yellowfin tuna- wahoo are examples. We can now go days on the water
without catching anything. What causes this? I dont know. There seem to be many more commercial boats than in the past, and way more gill netting by
locals.
Development? The flood situation in Mulege has put a big damper on much happening here. Lots of homes for sale or abandoned. Its clear that in some
areas something is prompting new business. Along hiway 1, some places appear prosperous. Big developments come and go, but the big footprint places to
me, are a negative. (old school)
Economics of living in Baja are not favorable anymore with lots of stuff costing way more than Norte. My biggest expense is gasoline for my boat, and
I find myself budgeting for fishing trips. The tradeoff is I seldom drive my truck, using a quad for errands and such.
The confusion in immigration law and the unforseen consequences have many people nervous as well.
AND we must face the fact that the old timers are getting older, and doing reality checks on things like medical, family etc.
Baja is a wonderful place but until the Mexican government cleans up its act on the above issues, thing will continue to slide.
The question posed by the originator of this thread is complex, and the answers more so. |
Skeeter will
probably be along any minute to tell you that there is still plenty of fish in the SOC, and that you just don't know where to look for them.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64757
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Anybody here read Ray Cannon's book?
How about Gene Kira's follow up book?
Some others that told of the way it was...
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Aqsurfer
Junior Nomad
Posts: 78
Registered: 7-6-2004
Member Is Offline
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Hola Greg,
Baja is lost and the gulf is in a very perilous situation. Earlier in the year I gave a lecture at the Aquarium of the Pacific entitled The Fall of
the Sea of Cortez. In it I discussed over-fishing impacts by decade and the efforts to save the peninsula from 2000-2008. I first became involved in
conservation efforts in Baja during the campaign to stop Mitsbishi's industrial salt project at Laguna San Ignacio during the mid/late 1990s. From
2000 to 2005, I led the effort to stop the Escalera Nautica and structured the land conservation deal at Laguna San Ignacio in 2005. Critical
mistakes and hubris at the NGO director level cost millions of acres on the peninsula. Baja is lost despite these victories.
The link to the lecture I gave at the Aquarium of the Pacific is:
http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/multimedia/player/lecture_a...
The situation is extremely on the water right now is dire. There has been a big shift in fishing effort by commercial interests. These guys are
targeting fish reserved to sport fishers under Article 68 of Mexico's Fisheries Law. The big target is dorado - thousands of tons per year (the
problem has been growing each year). I am working with Vince Radice and Minerva Saenz on addressing the issue. Check out the documentary A fish Made
of Gold produced by French television Talassa3 on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZstAPZqDYmQ
Peace,
Aaron
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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God I hate to say this but I can grab my rod and reel, either the one for the "lancha" (they don't know what the word "panga" means down on the
mainland) and catch 10 times the fish or twenty times (how does one "percentage" getting fish versus being skunked?) in the open ocean?
"They" would have to close the gulf for ten years to all forms of fishing to allow the stocks to replenish. This is not going to happen and within a
few years the Gulf of California is going to be barren. What is the percentage of extraneous that "Come to Baja" to fish, and would not come if the
fish go away? I don't know but for the welfare of the Mexicans I am fearful. The last trip over to the other side I saw a monster mid-water dragger, a
trawler rigged to tow a huge net dropping to 300' in depth. This vessel was black with a white superstructure. It tows the net at a speed of around
six knots. Few fish escape the net's "sock". A vessel like this can "harvest" twenty to thirty tons of fish per pull. To a depth of three hundred
feet. Yellowfin Tuna depth. What a sad, sad development this is. It would have killed Ray Cannon and other early day peninsula lovers to had know what
this has come to. The gulf is going to become as aesthetic as The Salton Sea. Thousands of hopes and dreams for retirees dashed. Poverty, and hunger
for the Mexicans.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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I think I can show you what's gonna happen. I wrote a book about the Sea of Cortez (unpublished) which begins in 1997 and ends in 2032. Each chapter
is a snapshot of what we will see if nobody changes anything -- that is, if we just keep on keepin' on.
It's free. U2U me with your Eaddress and I'll zip it to you. Title is A Sensitive Sea. Some Nomads have read it and said they liked it but that it was
not prophetic because by the time I finished it many of the things had occurred and it became a history book.
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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I didnt say there were no fish, I said it was way worse than it used to be..big difference.....
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Aqsurfer
Junior Nomad
Posts: 78
Registered: 7-6-2004
Member Is Offline
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DavidE,
Those trawlers working the gulf are permitted for sardine but as you saw they are going after anything that they can haul in. Mexican fisheries at
the highest levels are aware of what's going on. The last relatively healthy fish populations are reserved to sport fishers (article 68 - dorado,
marlin, sail fish, swordfish, rooster, and tarpon).
Alot of the dorado illegally caught in the gulf ends up in the US in violation of US law. The Lacey Act makes it illegal to transport across state or
international boundaries, any species that is illegal to take/catch/kill in its original jurisdiction. We are about to start actions in both
countries to address this.
On the opposite end of the spectrum are the small-scale fishers (riberenos). These guys know full well what the situation is but in their desperation
are also contributing to the decline. Permit cloning is huge problem. The owner of a permit recruits others to fish under his permit and they have
to buy in. Cloned shark permits are the most common. One cloned permit may have a dozen or more pangas working and none of their catch is
registered/logged. Absolutely no accounting.
Peace,
Aaron
Peace,
A
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Aqsurfer
Junior Nomad
Posts: 78
Registered: 7-6-2004
Member Is Offline
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Hola Nomads,
I will be presenting a lecture next week (Thursday Sept 19, 6pm) at San Diego State's Coastal and Marine Institute Laboratory. (address below). I
will be discussing the issues discussed in this post.
Fall 2013 Seminar Series
Please join us for the Fall Seminar Series at the Coastal and Marine Institute Laboratory!
All seminars will take place at the Coastal and Marine Institute Laboratory from 6-6:50pm. Refreshments and snacks will proceed each seminar from
5:30-6:00pm in the CMIL lobby. The purpose of the seminar series is to showcase research conducted at SDSU and the Coastal and Marine Institute
Laboratory (CMIL) as well as host researchers from other institutions in our field.
Email: mebsa.cmil@gmail.com
Phone: (619) 594-1308
Address:
Attn: MEBSA
Coastal and Marine Institute Laboratory
4165 Spruance Road
San Diego, CA 92101
Driving Directions from downtown San Diego:
1. Take the exit onto I-5 N toward Los Angeles
0.8 mi
2. Exit onto W Hawthorn St
0.8 mi
3. Turn right onto N Harbor Dr
2.2 mi
4. Turn right onto Mc Cain Rd
0.2 mi
5. Take the 1st left onto Spruance Rd
Destination will be on the left
0.1 mi
CMIL
4165 Spruance Rd
San Diego, CA 92101
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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I was reading on Bloody Decks the other day about a tourist angler fellow, bragging and boasting that he used a 7 cubic foot freezer, ran by a
generator in the back of his truck, to keep his catch frozen during his trip. And a vacuum sealer to seal em all up.
Others used smaller propane operated freezers then 150 quart Igloos......all for packing with filets of fish.
I know it's legal, based on a daily catch limit......but my gawd!!
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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the precentages
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by chuckie
There can be no question that sport fishing has gone downhill steadily for years. This year at Mulege was the worst I can remember in over 3o years.
Species of fish we used to catch with some regularity now seem non existent. Yellowfin tuna- wahoo are examples. We can now go days on the water
without catching anything. What causes this? I dont know. There seem to be many more commercial boats than in the past, and way more gill netting by
locals.
Development? The flood situation in Mulege has put a big damper on much happening here. Lots of homes for sale or abandoned. Its clear that in some
areas something is prompting new business. Along hiway 1, some places appear prosperous. Big developments come and go, but the big footprint places to
me, are a negative. (old school)
Economics of living in Baja are not favorable anymore with lots of stuff costing way more than Norte. My biggest expense is gasoline for my boat, and
I find myself budgeting for fishing trips. The tradeoff is I seldom drive my truck, using a quad for errands and such.
The confusion in immigration law and the unforseen consequences have many people nervous as well.
AND we must face the fact that the old timers are getting older, and doing reality checks on things like medical, family etc.
Baja is a wonderful place but until the Mexican government cleans up its act on the above issues, thing will continue to slide.
The question posed by the originator of this thread is complex, and the answers more so.
|
Skeeter will probably be along any minute to tell you that there is still plenty of fish in the SOC, and
that you just don't know where to look for them. |
10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Gentleman and Scholars and you to Monoloco!!
Aqsurfer: Before going on with this discussion would you please give us a Resume , such as "Time on the Waters of the Sea Of Cortez", Educational
background, Universities Attended. AGE.
Most on this board are famliliar with my Experience on the Cortez.
Arriving for my first visit in my little Cessna170b in October 1968 leaving fulltime in 2001. Many trips fishing since that time.
The first few years where different to some extent as there was decline in the fisheries due to many reasons. Commercial fishing in selected area, The
taking of the Sierra for Fertilizer, The over fishing near San Felipe of the Totuva, The Japanese being run out of the Sea . The massive taking of the
Squid etc.
Recently the decline in the Sport Fishing resulting in the "Less Fish reported being caught.",the decline of the Panga and old time mexcano Fisherman.
Also we must include the new fangled Electronic Fishing. which cause Fisherman to come back to a good Spot to find no Fish:They have Moved!!"
See next Post
Skeet/Loreto
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Next I will suggest to Agsurfer. the following:
Get yourself a fair sized boat that you can stay on and that you can take along a Panga. Very limited Electronic Gear.
Learn to dive and Snorkel take a good underwater camera as well as fishing gear. A Penn 4/0 with 20/40 lb lb Test and a Penn 6/0 with 120 Lb.
Go meet and Hire Alvarro Murillo of Loreto to go with you and tell him I sent you.
Have Alvarro take you to The Point North of San Nicholas and Investigate the places he took me over the years to the Isla of San Jose to the South.
Note: At San Nicholas I watched as they took out all the Sierra
.now they are coming back!!
The fish are still in the Sea of Cortez and will always be there. They come and go just like the Sharks, Whales and all others. Recently I observed
the fish on the top of the water in Thousands, which I had not seen in the past 5 years.
I have snorkled recently at Del Elfonso Island and seen Millions of fish. And Gentleman where do you think the Fish that Bill Erhart is catching on
the Pacific Side are coming from??????? In and out of the Sea on Cycle
Next Post
Skeet.
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