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Citizenship

markthompson - 9-15-2013 at 08:09 PM

It certainly seems like the days of obtaining citizenship easily in Mexico are over. I am having trouble even finding anyone who has been able to obtain Mexican citizenship within the last 6 months to a year. I am hoping to hear from some folks and maybe some recommendations for help. I live in La Paz. It seems that many are in process for the last 6 months, but do not seem to move forward. Please share your positive experiences on who and how you able to be succesful.
Thanks

Marla Daily - 9-16-2013 at 06:40 AM

Here is my ongoing and current situation:

For 8 months, I have been emailing the citizenship attorney in Mexico city, Gilberto Pineda, recommended on this board by others. He has copies of my documents, and his last email of August 7 states:

ESTOY ASIENDO UNA REVICION Y QUE ME AUTORICEN LA RECEPCION POR LOS CAMBIOS QUE A ABIDO LE CONTESTO CON CALMA MAS TARDE POR FAVOR.

I think he is saying he is reviewing the documents, and hopes the documents he submitted will get the approved stamp of reception (which is the first step before processing the application - according to the mexican government system), and saying that there have been lot's of changes lately. (I imagine within the government offices).

I've emailed him since, but no reply.

shari - 9-16-2013 at 07:22 AM

hmmmm...sounds like Gilbert is saying there have been new changes that may affect your solicitude and he is waiting to see if they will receive it....

I do know that when the government changed to PRI, things all over the country grinded to a halt because it's a whole new ball game with lots of new changes. But if anyone can get it through, it's Gilberto.

Mark, I suggest you do NOT seek citizenship via the La Paz office...it is known as the graveyard of citizenship requests as very very few ever go through and die a slow death in a ream of paperwork. Contact Gilberto if you want to be successful at getting citizenship...maybe U2U Marla with for his number.

BajaBlanca - 9-16-2013 at 08:16 AM

GILBERTO PINEDA

gpcpineda@hotmail.com or call him in Mexico City at
55 5529-8701 and cell phone 045 55 5419-6812

markthompson - 9-16-2013 at 08:38 AM

We tried emailing a few times to Sr Pineda with no response. We just wanted to start the process

DENNIS - 9-16-2013 at 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by markthompson
We just wanted to start the process

I'm only being curious when I ask, and if it's overly personal, please disregard, but what are your reasons for pursuing citizenship?

mtnpop - 9-16-2013 at 09:31 AM

In watching this thread my question was are you getting citizenship or the resident permanent card (old imagrado) status ????
I thought they were still different and that to go to citizenship you had to take some kind of Mexico history test along with speak fluent Spanish..
Maybe I have not researched it far enough myself..
I also am not sure the advantage or why to seek citizenship...

monoloco - 9-16-2013 at 09:40 AM

The only advantage that I can see is the ability to hold title to land in the restricted zone. Shari is spot on about La Paz being the graveyard of citizenship applications.

[Edited on 9-16-2013 by monoloco]

DavidE - 9-16-2013 at 09:57 AM

I had a rabbi, and I feel strongly that had not Ismael made phone calls, and tutored me I would not have stood a chance.

Is it worth it? Each person has to study the pros and cons and make up their mind.

The PRI technocrats started this krap with Miguel de La Madrid. Then Carlos Salinas de Ladrón amplified it. They're back and it's going to get worse. Ismael who is a Delagado Federal says México is talking about imposing a graduating scale of required minimum bank balances, increasing to fifty thousand pesos over a period of a few years. Then filing with SAT yearly a tax on income of extraneous residente permanentes. Some people laughed when I reported the PRI was considering a VAT imposed on groceries and medicines. The PRI is considering imposing IVA on LABOR. Whether it be for building a house, or repairing a flat tire. I have no idea whether or not these discussions are going to lead to new taxes, but I fear the taxing has just begun.

shari - 9-16-2013 at 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by markthompson
We tried emailing a few times to Sr Pineda with no response. We just wanted to start the process

When I dealt with Gilberto....he wasnt answering emails, you had to contact him by phone. His daughter was helping in the office but perhaps she is on her own now....call him.

DENNIS - 9-16-2013 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
but I fear the taxing has just begun.

If Slim were audited and corrected, a large part on Mexico's fiscal problems could be solved.

CortezBlue - 9-16-2013 at 12:32 PM

I have a question??

I am wondering what cirummstances has lead any of you who are looking to get Mexican Citzenship?

I have my Perm Residence card and considered getting Citezenship, but until they get the Fidicomiso issue resolved I am happy with my status.

I am just curious what the reason(s) are that you all have?

DavidE - 9-16-2013 at 12:34 PM

With the PRI back in power, any attempt to corral an even bigger power grab by Slime would be like having had Sam Giancana chair the House Select Committee on Organized Crime.

The PRI is going to tax, they are going to rob, and coerce, and rig. My laughing answer? Require Mexican politicians to undergo a polygraph exam in Switzerland by the Swiss. They should do this with USA politicians as well. Hook the "wrong answer" clips to their .... Then make sure megawatts of power are available because the power system would be in for a Trial-By-Fire.

They should start off the exam by a trial. Test the Municipio Mulege delegacion. The resulting mushroom clouds would pretty much screw up tiny Switzerland, though. Blow the freakin' polygraphs all the way to Madagascar.

oladulce - 9-16-2013 at 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CortezBlue
I have a question??

I am wondering what cirummstances has lead any of you who are looking to get Mexican Citzenship?

I have my Perm Residence card and considered getting Citezenship, but until they get the Fidicomiso issue resolved I am happy with my status.

I am just curious what the reason(s) are that you all have?

We've dumped more money than we should have in to this Baja "dream house" and eliminating capital gains taxes when we sell it are a huge factor and our motivation for pursuing citizenship someday. I can't find the info that says what the requirements are now for citizenship? Do you have to hold a Permanente for a certain number of years?

DavidE - 9-16-2013 at 03:38 PM

Yes. Just like holding an FM-2 used to be.

citizenship

markthompson - 9-16-2013 at 04:00 PM

I was told you only needed to hold a Residente Permanente long enough to take the card from 1 hand and give it to SRE with the other. In other words, you just have to have the status, no time length before you are elgible to apply.

chippy - 9-16-2013 at 04:08 PM

Its nice having both but was it worth the pain? Jurys still out on that one. But as my neighbor says "great now you can get screwed by both governments".

[Edited on 9-16-2013 by chippy]

Eli - 9-16-2013 at 05:39 PM

Quote:

My reason for becoming a citizen of Mexico was, (and still is), it is my home, my father is buried here, my grandkids were born here, all my family is here, my life is 100 percent invested in Mexico. With the exception of going North with Dad for a couple of weeks about 10years ago for meds, I have not been state side for 24 years. I may go back North for a visit someday, but I would not hold my breath waiting to see that happen.
The freedom to not have to show income, which in my case is way below the minimum required. I can run my tiny business without proving my right to do so. And of course having an opinion about Anything without looking over my shoulder, all add up to a peace of mind that was so worth the hassle I went thru 9 years ago in order to get that little piece of paper. I never looked back, this is where I belong.

bajajudy - 9-16-2013 at 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch

I will pursue this, too, once I am fluent in Spanish. I have been told even without Spanish proficiency I would be able to do this but I don't feel right about that.

[Edited on 9-16-2013 by soulpatch]

None of my business but if you are over 60 you don't have to take the test.

CortezBlue - 9-16-2013 at 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oladulce

Quote:

I am under the impression that you don't need to have citizenship or even permanent residence to get a tax break. For example, my neighbors sold their home about 3 years ago. They only had an FM3 and they were told that if they had an FM2 they could save capital gains. They got their FM2, sold the casa and paid no taxes.

As far as getting citizenship while holding a PR card, I think I can do it at any time, but really have no interest in get citizenship.

BajaBlanca - 9-16-2013 at 10:39 PM

Gilberto does answer emails much more often now.

The only reason he might NOT answer is if you wrote him in English. He is a firm believer that if you want to become a citizen, you must be conversant in Spanish. He will only deal with his clients in Spanish.....

Marla Daily - 9-17-2013 at 06:24 AM

I can't speak for others, but all of my emails are in Spanish only.
I'm awaiting a response to my emails of Sept. 5 and Sept. 17.
Maybe mañana?

Pescador - 9-17-2013 at 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

I'm only being curious when I ask, and if it's overly personal, please disregard, but what are your reasons for pursuing citizenship?

Well, here are the most common reasons. You become a Mexican citizen with all of the rights and responsibilities. You can own land, run a business, have equal footing in court, vote, become involved in what is going on locally or even nationally if you so choose.

DENNIS - 9-17-2013 at 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Pescador

Quote:

You can own land, run a business,

Soo....attaining citizenship is kinda like joining an investment club?
I always thought their would be a more emotional reason, like love of country, or something silly like that.

Quote:

have equal footing in court,

Equal to whom or what? We all know equality is a bought and paid for commodity.
No fun tickets...no justice.

Quote:

vote

Why?

Quote:

become involved in what is going on locally or even nationally if you so choose.

it seems a common misconception that we, as foreigners, aren't even allowed to have an opinion when it comes to the running of Mexico.
Allow me to share a well guarded secret....we are allowed that, and I freely indulge in that activity, forming my own opinions, about most everything, including politics, and even with citizenship, I couldn't be more free to do that.

Now...if you want to include running for office....I'm not so sure even citizenship will allow that.

At any rate, US citizens who earn citizenship in Mexico will never....as in never....be anything more than second class citizens, at best.
To Mexicans, being "Mexican" involves a lot more than having the proper paperwork. It's more an identification of ancestral blood lines.

OK....that's my rant for the day.

Didja know, Sam's Club here sells Tecate Lite for 102 Ps [tax included] per 12 Pak? That's 60 Ps less than Villarino's tienda. I need to borrow a big truck.
SALUD

.

[Edited on 9-17-2013 by DENNIS]

greengoes - 9-17-2013 at 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador

Correct me if I am wrong on these points........

Quote:

You can own land, run a business,

Having a Permente card allows you to own through Fido's and you can apply for the lucrativa option if you want to beat your head against the wall to make dinero down here.

Quote:

have equal footing in court,

oh yea, just what I need, equal footing in a Mexican court. Enough dinero and a good abogado will get you more than equal footing.

Quote:

vote

Even as a naturalized Mexican citizen I do believe you will never get the right to vote. That is reserved for citizens by birth.

If I am wrong on these points please let me know and possibly include links to corroborate the rebuttals.

Eli - 9-17-2013 at 09:45 AM

Quote:

I am registered to vote, and I am naturalized.

greengoes - 9-17-2013 at 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli

Even as a naturalized Mexican citizen I do believe you will never get the right to vote. That is reserved for citizens by birth.

If I am wrong on these points please let me know and possibly include links to corroborate the rebuttals.

I am registered to vote, and I am naturalized.

Thank you. Another bit of wrong information put to rest.

Bill Collector - 9-17-2013 at 10:12 AM

We are registered to vote, and we are naturalized. We have actually voted twice.

redmesa - 9-17-2013 at 10:17 AM

I think it would have been great if along with NAFTA they had given the option of a North American Citizenship rather like the EU.

DENNIS - 9-17-2013 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redmesa
I think it would have been great if along with NAFTA they had given the option of a North American Citizenship rather like the EU.

If our countries had equitable economies, they probably would have, but we don't, so they couldn't.

DavidE - 9-17-2013 at 10:26 AM

Not able to vote? Oh my god I have to find an office of the IFE quick and tell them my vote did not count. I am also a socio del ejido y sindicato de mangeros de Michoacan.

Capital gains & immigration status

oladulce - 9-19-2013 at 06:43 AM

Cortez Blue, this article is interesting regarding Mex Capital gains on real estate for foreigners http://yucalandia.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/capital-gains-taxes-on-mexican-properties/

Sounds like some laws have changed but it's still up to the interpretation of the notario you use for your property sale. If you can prove 5 yrs of full time residency you may find a notario who will allow the cap gains exemption on a Res Perm visa.

The question I've yet to get answered: how will we prove we've been full time residents when we have no electricity, water bills, street address or any of the typical receipts? It's an ongoing problem for us in this system which considers utility bills like a holy grail.

I had a brainstorm when we went whale watching this year. At Lopez Mateos there's a guy who takes your photo before you start your whale tour. When you return to the dock he's got a memento- your picture framed, dated, and complete with a spyhopping whale photoshopped next to your boat. Next time we get crap about not having a utility bill to prove we live here full time, I'll dump an armload of consecutive years of cute whale watching photos on their desk. (Sorry for the drift off).

The Yucalandia article also mentions you will have "converted your fide to an escritura before selling your property"- I hadn't thought about that factor in the timeline. Reports here sound like the citizenship process is currently bogged down. Add the amount of time it will take for your bank to release your fide and it'll probably take a couple years minimum. We're still waiting to go back to INM for fingerprints to process our Res Permanentes so we don't even have those yet, but we better start looking at the Citizenship procedure now.

Mula - 9-19-2013 at 06:49 AM

I have had a post office box in Loreto since 2006 when I came to Baja.
I use that for proof of length of time here.
I had to provide rent receipts/lease to prove a residence some where in the Municipality of Loreto -.