BajaNomad

Something you won't see in Baja

motoged - 10-8-2013 at 11:05 AM

Don't know whether it is cooling or warming, but this is pretty awesome:

http://www.wimp.com/glaciercalving/

[Edited on 10-8-2013 by motoged]

Calving Baja style

durrelllrobert - 10-8-2013 at 11:28 AM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCXosJAW-f4‎

vgabndo - 10-8-2013 at 12:53 PM

Well, clearly the glacier is retreating at a wildly accelerating rate. What amazing footage. Until the size comparisons, I had no idea what I was seeing! "Boiling" water to make the footage of the tsunami in Japan 3/11 look weak and unimpressive!

How long before humans will find it expedient to put tugs on some of the manageable bergs and tow that fresh water to places where the people have money but are dying of thirst?

motoged - 10-8-2013 at 01:12 PM

Perry,
Yes, water is the next "Big Thing" regarding natural resources. The oil boom up here in Canada is ready to exploit huge natural gas reserves in BC and Alberta....so all the effing fracking needed for that will likely destroy a lot of existing water resources....leaving money with the corps and gov'ts....but greatly diminished water resources.

On top of that, our current laws don't adequately protect water being taken without controls....and the "Free Trade " agreement also gives our water away. I will be dead by the time all that "Perfect Storm" hits....but those remaining won't have a fun time, I am afraid.


But the power of that glacier movement reminds us of our insignificance.

DavidE - 10-8-2013 at 01:54 PM

Which brings to mind...

" Dr. Ian Malcolm: Gee, the lack of humility before nature that's being displayed here, uh... staggers me.

Donald Gennaro: Well thank you, Dr. Malcolm, but I think things are a little bit different then you and I had feared...

Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, I know. They're a lot worse.

Donald Gennaro: Now, wait a second now, we haven't even seen the park...

John Hammond: No, no, Donald, Donald, Donald... let him talk. There's no reason... I want to hear every viewpoint, I really do.

Dr. Ian Malcolm: Don't you see the danger, John, inherent in what you're doing here? Genetic power is the most awesome force the planet's ever seen, but you wield it like a kid that's found his dad's gun.

Donald Gennaro: It's hardly appropriate to start hurling generalizations...

Dr. Ian Malcolm: If I may... Um, I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here, it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could, and before you even knew what you had, you patented it, and packaged it, and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now

[bangs on the table]

Dr. Ian Malcolm: you're selling it, you wanna sell it. Well...

John Hammond: I don't think you're giving us our due credit. Our scientists have done things which nobody's ever done before...

Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.

John Hammond: Condors. Condors are on the verge of extinction...

Dr. Ian Malcolm: [shaking his head] No...

John Hammond: If I was to create a flock of condors on this island, you wouldn't have anything to say.

Dr. Ian Malcolm: No, hold on. This isn't some species that was obliterated by deforestation, or the building of a dam. Dinosaurs had their shot, and nature selected them for extinction.

John Hammond: I simply don't understand this Luddite attitude, especially from a scientist. I mean, how can we stand in the light of discovery, and not act?

Dr. Ian Malcolm: What's so great about discovery? It's a violent, penetrative act that scars what it explores. What you call discovery, I call the rape of the natural world.

Dr. Ellie Sattler: Well, the question is, how can you know anything about an extinct ecosystem? And therefore, how could you ever assume that you can control it? I mean, you have plants in this building that are poisonous, you picked them because they look good, but these are aggressive living things that have no idea what century they're in, and they'll defend themselves, violently if necessary.

John Hammond: Dr. Grant, if there's one person here who could appreciate what I'm trying to do...

Dr. Alan Grant: The world has just changed so radically, and we're all running to catch up. I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but look... Dinosaurs and man, two species separated by 65 million years of evolution have just been suddenly thrown back into the mix together. How can we possibly have the slightest idea what to expect?

John Hammond: [laughing] I don't believe it. I don't believe it! You're meant to come down here and defend me against these characters, and the only one I've got on my side is the blood-sucking lawyer!

Donald Gennaro: Thank you.

motoged - 10-8-2013 at 02:05 PM

David,
Uhhhhh, you working on a screenplay ?

An arcane reference?

vgabndo - 10-8-2013 at 02:16 PM

David, they're getting closer, and you are too old to out-run them. Just eat the Jello and enjoy it.

Sorry for the highjack.




[Edited on 10-8-2013 by vgabndo]

motoged - 10-8-2013 at 03:32 PM

I guess I missed that movie...:biggrin:

bledito - 10-8-2013 at 04:36 PM

get the movie soilent green.

David K - 10-8-2013 at 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bledito
get the movie soilent green.


WE HAVE LESS THAN 9 YEARS UNTIL THIS!!!



:lol: (Al Gore must have watched this when he was getting ideas?)

motoged - 10-8-2013 at 06:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bledito
get the movie soilent green.


Oh, I saw that years ago....just wasn't aware it had anything worthwhile to quote :lol:

Kinda like Al Gore jabs :biggrin:

But, we shouldn't dis Al too much....I hear that we can thank him for this interwebby thing that allows us to be keyboard philosophers and commandos :light:

Thanks , Al.....Just one thing: Where IS the place that connects all these people with all that info.....caverns in Colorado? ;D

como?

EdZeranski - 10-8-2013 at 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
....so all the effing fracking needed for that will likely destroy a lot of existing water resources....


You have facts for that or sources? I'm still looking but haven't found any non political info (frack bashing the norm) that has engineering data supporting fracking as being bad. The stuff is already in the ground. Down in the desert we have to be careful with aquifers but much of what I've read seems to be from "occupy types" who hate working people.

EdZ

motoged - 10-9-2013 at 12:54 AM

Ed,
I think fracking IS a political issue as it has been demonstrated that it disturbs aquifers. I will let you do your own research rather than spoonfeed you as I am a working man and don't have time to do your work for you.

When you take a minute and Google the subject, you will find a lot of information (some provided by your government) that isn't concocted by liars.

Isn't "frack supporting" a political position?

[Edited on 10-9-2013 by motoged]

David K - 10-9-2013 at 01:03 AM

I thought it was a technological discovery to access the natural resources under our own land instead of being at the mercy of some dictator and financing terrorists.???

I want freedom from foreign oil or at least non-North American oil... Wouldn't it be great for our economies if we could tell Saudi and the others to drink their damn oil, that we have plenty of reserves that will take us to the point we will not need it for energy anymore.

paranewbi - 10-9-2013 at 04:40 AM

"When you take a minute and Google the subject, you will find a lot of information (some provided by your government) that isn't concocted by liars."

Yea, but all you need is a divining rod to discern what is 'truth' and what are 'lies'. ESPECIALLY when it comes to "your government''.

you guys crack me up!

Katiejay99 - 10-9-2013 at 05:41 AM

Hey DavidE - I just watched Jurrasic Park again the other day so as I was reading what you wrote I could "see" them talking.

durrelllrobert - 10-9-2013 at 08:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Ed,
I think fracking IS a political issue as it has been demonstrated that it disturbs aquifers. I will let you do your own research rather than spoonfeed you as I am a working man and don't have time to do your work for you.

When you take a minute and Google the subject, you will find a lot of information (some provided by your government) that isn't concocted by liars.

Isn't "frack supporting" a political position?

[Edited on 10-9-2013 by motoged]


Friking fraking isn't just for Canadians anymore :lol:

motoged - 10-9-2013 at 09:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Friking fraking isn't just for Canadians anymore :lol:


That's for sure. It is a technological problem shared by the planet.

Extraction of natural resources is bound to produce some garbage and unpleasant side effects. The question is that of the overall "costs" of such utilization....."What is it worth to you? "

toneart - 10-9-2013 at 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Friking fraking isn't just for Canadians anymore :lol:


That's for sure. It is a technological problem shared by the planet.

Extraction of natural resources is bound to produce some garbage and unpleasant side effects. The question is that of the overall "costs" of such utilization....."What is it worth to you? "

:yes:...what Motoged said!

Water is more precious than oil! When it is contaminated or gone, then so are we. It is worth discussing, but when David K adds his Tea Bagger rhetoric (as he always does), it spoils the discussion. It gives the Wingnuts here (the usual ones who have taken David K's lead) license to pollute the Nomad forum waters.

It is why I rarely participate, here or on Off Topic. Why bother? They will never get it, and this is not the intellectual sanctuary where weighty matters can be discussed.

You may deduce that I don't like them, or their Anti-American terrorist representatives in the House.

motoged - 10-9-2013 at 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
[..... and this is not the intellectual sanctuary where weighty matters can be discussed....


Tony,
Thanks for the reminder ;D I slip from time-to-time and try to voice dissent/common sense/ a different possible perspective.

But wasn't that glacier calving powerful? :coolup:

I first posted it with a comment "I hope this doesn't turn into a political debate", but that post was deleted/lost....

I just really wanted folks to see something never recorded before that might make them say, "Wow ....cool !"

toneart - 10-9-2013 at 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
[..... and this is not the intellectual sanctuary where weighty matters can be discussed....


Tony,
Thanks for the reminder ;D I slip from time-to-time and try to voice dissent/common sense/ a different possible perspective.

But wasn't that glacier calving powerful? :coolup:

I first posted it with a comment "I hope this doesn't turn into a political debate", but that post was deleted/lost....

I just really wanted folks to see something never recorded before that might make them say, "Wow ....cool !"


Yes, the video was amazing. The video, with the overlay of Manhattan, really helps us to get a true perspective of how powerful and vast this phenomenon really is.

I say "Wow...cool! :yes:

vgabndo - 10-9-2013 at 12:13 PM

Affordable Care Act

How about this is a "huge power grab" by WE THE PEOPLE. Obama ran on a platform of healthcare reform. He soundly trounced the multi-millionaire bankster who finally rose to the top of that bus full of marooons who ran in the GOP primary. (remember the 'best and brightest' of the Republican Party?) We the people voted overwhelmingly for Obama and the ACA. The TeaBaggers, while abandoning the rest of their jobs, have tried 41 times to reverse the will of the people, and they have failed 41 times. Now they are going to hold their breath and shut-down the government until their MINORITY view is suddenly declared to be the majority.
The level of delusion that has beset these radicals is pretty clear to see when we watch them blame the Democrats and Obama for not being able to deliver a budget. We the People want the ACA, we voted for it. If it is a bad idea, we'll pay for it. Just like we are paying for the EXTREME error in judgement which placed George W. Bush in power for 8 years. Also remember that the military deserter G. W. Bush, was elected by a conservative Supreme Court, NOT THE PEOPLE.

The TeaBaggers lost this fight over the ACA fair and square; all the way through the (conservative) Supreme Court. Time ran out, the buzzer went off, it is time for the Palen types and their 10% approval rating to STFU and start applying the will of the people.

And, about fracking being non-polluting. Ask yourself why if you run the rapids through the Green River you will have to bring every drop of drinking water with you in your pack. No amount of purification can make that water fit to drink any more according to my friend who just returned from running the Green. Not long ago, it was still OK to purify and drink, but the thousands of fracking wells, OK'd by Dick Cheney's SECRET Halliburton energy negotiations in 2001, are now threatening the purity of not just the Green, but the Colorado also.

Chaney's secret pro-industry gathering was supposed to be about sustainability, but only 7 of 105 recommendations addressed clean, sustainable energy.

What it DID do was make a crap load of money for the big five oil companies and all the Congressmen they pay.

retailvsoilprofits-revised2.jpg - 18kB

Mexitron - 10-9-2013 at 12:47 PM

The other thread was moved to Off-Topic motoged. The scale of the calving is mind-numbing. Imagine what it was like to be there in person. What a planet!

bufeo - 10-9-2013 at 01:08 PM

We've been fortunate enough to be present at a couple of small (tiny by comparison to that video) glacial calvings and they were mind-boggling.

Also, of more interest to us, we witnessed two "calvings" of Isla San Luis off Punta Bufeo. They were impressive. Both times large portions of the east end of the island broke off into the water. I know they are not the same thing as the glaciers, but the similarities of the phenomena nevertheless elicited comparisons by us amateurs at the time.

Allen R

motoged - 10-9-2013 at 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
The other thread was moved to Off-Topic motoged. The scale of the calving is mind-numbing. Imagine what it was like to be there in person. What a planet!


Thanks....didn't think to look there :coolup:

And I just did (could not see it....no big deal)....

Boy the Off-Topic forum is sure a cess-pool....:o

[Edited on 10-9-2013 by motoged]

Barry A. - 10-9-2013 at 01:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo

And, about fracking being non-polluting. Ask yourself why if you run the rapids through the Green River you will have to bring every drop of drinking water with you in your pack. No amount of purification can make that water fit to drink any more according to my friend who just returned from running the Green. Not long ago, it was still OK to purify and drink, but the thousands of fracking wells, OK'd by Dick Cheney's SECRET Halliburton energy negotiations in 2001, are now threatening the purity of not just the Green, but the Colorado also.



As a point of possible interest----------I was the "Inner Canyon Management Ranger" for Dinosaur Natl. Monument for the years 1971 thru 1974 which included the Green and Yampa Rivers. For all that time, the rivers were totally off-limits for drinking for a variety of complicated reasons. I ran those rivers for 5 months a year almost every week, and we ALWAYS hauled ALL our drinking water with us, and recommended that everybody else do the same. This even applied to Jones Creek, a major side canyon of the Green within the Park and a popular camping spot for river trips.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, the Eastern Sierra creeks that run down into Owens Valley were all declared undrinkable back when we lived there (1947 to about 1995) and yet for that entire time, all culinary water taken from Oak Creek near Independence was taken directly unfiltered and untreated from the creek and none of us, or our guests, EVER got sick.

Go figure???? Science in action!?!?!?!? You just never know. :O :lol:

Barry

motoged - 10-9-2013 at 02:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
.....all culinary water taken from Oak Creek near Independence was taken directly unfiltered and untreated from the creek and none of us, or our guests, EVER got sick. Barry


Yeah, but do you glow in the dark.....yet? :biggrin:

Barry A. - 10-9-2013 at 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
.....all culinary water taken from Oak Creek near Independence was taken directly unfiltered and untreated from the creek and none of us, or our guests, EVER got sick. Barry


Yeah, but do you glow in the dark.....yet? :biggrin:


that's a different subject--------apples and oranges????---------and we don't talk about that. :O

Barry