BajaNomad

GRETCHEN SMITH...

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DENNIS - 10-10-2013 at 05:27 PM

PLease...please listen to all parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WIDO8VeyHQ&feature=share...



.



[Edited on 7-6-2014 by DENNIS]

redmesa - 10-10-2013 at 05:54 PM

Holy chit! She is my hero. What an awesome person! Thanks Dennis for sharing. I hope to meet her someday.

aguachico - 10-10-2013 at 06:27 PM

Thanks for sharing that.

monoloco - 10-10-2013 at 06:33 PM

Wow, how barbaric, no one should ever have to go through that. There is certainly no shortage of incompetence when it comes to the Mexican justice (or lack thereof) system. It makes it glaringly obvious why most Mexicans are reluctant to report crimes or become involved. I don't believe that her experience was unique. Why is it that they can keep someone who's innocent of any crime for 4 days, but when they catch someone red handed breaking into someone's house or stealing their electric cable, they can only hold them for 48 hours?

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by monoloco]

DENNIS - 10-10-2013 at 07:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Wow, how barbaric, no one should ever have to go through that. There is certainly no shortage of incompetence when it comes to the Mexican justice (or lack thereof) system.




Barbaric...fer sure.
I've made two efforts to post this on the Punta Banda Bulletin Board, but due to their censorship policy toward me specifically, as well as the owner, Kathleen Taormina's [aka bajabound 2005 here on the board] involvement with the Baja Image Committee, she won't put it up.
It's a fair and balanced crap fest of restaurant ads there.
May Gawd help the outsider who may be looking for truth of the area on that board.

monoloco - 10-10-2013 at 07:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Wow, how barbaric, no one should ever have to go through that. There is certainly no shortage of incompetence when it comes to the Mexican justice (or lack thereof) system.




Barbaric...fer sure.
I've made two efforts to post this on the Punta Banda Bulletin Board, but due to their censorship policy toward me specifically, as well as the owner, Kathleen Taormina's [aka bajabound 2005 here on the board] involvement with the Baja Image Committee, she won't put it up.
It's a fair and balanced crap fest of restaurant ads there.
May Gawd help the outsider who may be looking for truth of the area on that board.
Why would anyone even bother to read such a shamelessly biased message board?

shari - 10-10-2013 at 07:20 PM

wow, very scary. It is heinous she didnt get a translator. I hope this video gets some attention and hell is raised over her illegal incarceration which in time hopefully will help get some changes made in the Rosarito police department ...how foreigners are treated....and Mar did not die in vain.

DENNIS - 10-10-2013 at 07:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Why would anyone even bother to read such a shamelessly biased message board?



I read it. It used to be our local newspaper, but now it's toilet paper. It's become a standard reply on the rag when people dislike an opinion, that the poster should shut up because we're all guests here and shouldn't complain.
These brain-deads out here would probably do the same if they saw these videos.
The owner, Ms. Taormina, is the worst offender for putting up with it, as well as her egregious censorship, but there's not much left to the board anyway. All discussion has drifted over to Facebook leaving the format to local restaurants and their redundant ads, and freeloaders wanting something for nothing.



.





[Edited on 10-11-2013 by DENNIS]

DENNIS - 10-10-2013 at 07:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS




Barbaric...fer sure.
I've made two efforts to post this on the Punta Banda Bulletin Board, but due to their censorship policy toward me specifically, as well as the owner, Kathleen Taormina's [aka bajabound 2005 here on the board] involvement with the Baja Image Committee, she won't put it up.
It's a fair and balanced crap fest of restaurant ads there.
May Gawd help the outsider who may be looking for truth of the area on that board.



Well....they just posted one of them. I appreciate that. Thank you. [Kathleen reads this]

BajaLuna - 10-10-2013 at 08:28 PM

OMG. I don't know why this happened to Gretchen with the Rosarito PD, I don't know why she was put through this horrible inhumane experience after everything she did to help, ....but I do know that Mar was very fortunate to have her with him.

Gretchen, I am lighting a candle for your healing! You did the right thing for Mar!

woody with a view - 10-10-2013 at 08:48 PM

we used to love Rosyrito back in high school, before the pier, before papas and beer.....

it is a shhite-hole, par excelance! i prefer passing thru TJ to rosyrito anyday.

EnsenadaDr - 10-10-2013 at 09:07 PM

I don't think anyone with any foresight would run to someone especially in Mexico as a visitor on a visa that was involved in a shooting. The best thing a person can do is take cover and let the police handle it. For someone to run to someone's side AFTER the fireman got to the scene seems extremely suspicious and would make the police think the person had been involved. The victim could have had a gun as well and it could have been very well a drug deal gone wrong. People please. You wonder why people get killed in Mexico. When you see trouble or in this case hear gunshots, run the other way. The man had a person by his side somewhat trained in emergency rescue (a fireman), if he needed medical attention a lay person running over to help him would not help and would arouse suspicion. Yes we all love Mexico but we are smart enough to stay out of firing range in this type of situation. Who knows if the guy had powdered sugar he was trying to sell for $30,000 instead of uncut cocaine and got shot trying to scheme someone out of money. I am not disputing that this woman was mistreated in a Mexican jail. But why she would run out as the Green Beret of Rosarito is just an overwhelming thought. Miss Gretchen Smith has many many videos to her credit about Rosarito on You Tube, and also claimed a sighting on Mr. Patton just a few days ago. She is an artist, yet appears to have taken on the role of a medic or Doctor. Why she chose to get caught up in this situation is beyond me. If there had NOT been someone in the area, I could understand it. Why someone would run in the direction of where there had been gunfire is completely incomprehensible to me. She also mentions screaming in Spanish but mentions bombadero, no wonder no one understood her.

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by EnsenadaDr]

BajaLuna - 10-10-2013 at 09:23 PM

It's hard to say what anyone would do in this same situation. Could she have been in danger in this situation on the beach, possibly. Sometimes people just do what feels instinctual to do in the MOMENT, Sometimes they don't have time to think of the what if's or analyze it, or be afraid....obviously she felt called to help. Her intentions were good. We don't know the reasons she was suppose to be there to help a dying man, but obviously she made a self-less decision. I commend her bravery and her service to her fellow man.

mtgoat666 - 10-10-2013 at 09:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I don't think anyone with any foresight would run to someone especially in Mexico as a visitor on a visa that was involved in a shooting. The best thing a person can do is take cover and let the police handle it. For someone to run to someone's side AFTER the fireman got to the scene seems extremely suspicious and would make the police think the person had been involved. The victim could have had a gun as well and it could have been very well a drug deal gone wrong. People please. You wonder why people get killed in Mexico. When you see trouble or in this case hear gunshots, run the other way. The man had a person by his side somewhat trained in emergency rescue (a fireman), if he needed medical attention a lay person running over to help him would not help and would arouse suspicion. Yes we all love Mexico but we are smart enough to stay out of firing range in this type of situation. Who knows if the guy had powdered sugar he was trying to sell for $30,000 instead of uncut cocaine and got shot trying to scheme someone out of money. I am not disputing that this woman was mistreated in a Mexican jail. But why she would run out as the Green Beret of Rosarito is just an overwhelming thought. Miss Gretchen Smith has many many videos to her credit about Rosarito on You Tube, and also claimed a sighting on Mr. Patton just a few days ago. She is an artist, yet appears to have taken on the role of a medic or Doctor. Why she chose to get caught up in this situation is beyond me. If there had NOT been someone in the area, I could understand it. Why someone would run in the direction of where there had been gunfire is completely incomprehensible to me. She also mentions screaming in Spanish but mentions bombadero, no wonder no one understood her.

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by EnsenadaDr]


Remind me to not be in need when you are near!

BajaLuna - 10-10-2013 at 09:28 PM

it's always easy to call the plays after you know how the game is going to turn out.

not saying this was a game, but ya know what I mean, eh.

DENNIS - 10-10-2013 at 09:31 PM

Some people just have bigger balls than others and handle fear differently.

JoeJustJoe - 10-10-2013 at 09:32 PM

I have been torturing myself by watching those YouTube videos that Dennis put up by Tall Artist, and although her heart seems in the right place, because she was one of the first to help that Rosarito life guard when he was fatally shot and killed.

But I also can't help but think the Rosarito police were in the right when they arrested her, and she certainly at the very least contributed to her arrest and lengthy stay in prison for a few reasons including her becoming unglued at the crime scene, and then later in prison, and some of this she admitted to in the video.

After watching the first video, I'm already suspecting something, and by the second video, she herself confirms my deep suspicions about her. ( I have not watched all four videos, but I watched most of the first two, and jumped around the third and fourth video to get a good sense on where she was going with the video series)

If you have read some of my posts, you'll know I'm not a fan of police officer tactics in the USA or Mexico, but I understand the tactics used by the police, especially in the states. ( cops won't take crap period, and you'll never win a fight against a cop for verbally abusing them, even if you think you're right)

I have no doubt that if the very same thing happened in the US, that she also would have been at the very least arrested and probably would have been locked up about the same amount of time, but the circumstances would have been a little different in the US.

Hopefully, after watching the video, and reading about this incident, others will be able to see what I'm talking about, and if not. I'll be back to explain it.

There are two sides to every story, and one of the things I like to do, is put my feet in the other persons shoes, because it really help me gain perspective on the other side of the story.

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]

DENNIS - 10-10-2013 at 09:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

Remind me to not be in need when you are near!


Careful what you wish for, can-eater.

DENNIS - 10-10-2013 at 09:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I'll be back to explain it.




Please, Joe. You've said quite enough.

EnsenadaDr - 10-10-2013 at 09:43 PM

That's not my point. If no one was there and if I was a trained medical professional I would go. But someone who hasn't had one iota of medical background for over 20 years and hears gunshots, why have 2 fatalities instead of one? I understand the logic of the Mexican police being suspicious. Should we all be lemmings and follow each other off the cliff? What about safety measures? If there are gunshots I don't think you should go out to the beach period. Leave that responsibility to law enforcement or trained officials. As a medical professional I would not advise anyone untrained unless it was a dire emergency where no help was available to run out in a potentially fatal environment. I would be putting people in harm's way to suggest they do what this woman did. She saw someone going for more help, and one fireman was by her side. It's not about having huevos, it's about knowing your limitations and avoiding a potentially fatal situation.

EnsenadaDr - 10-10-2013 at 09:49 PM

Joe I agree with you. I understand myself why the Rosarito Police arrested her as well. I am not a fan of police stories, but these guys were trying to do their job. Their tactics after the fact were just about what I have heard about Mexican jails, this is nothing new. She should have hired a Mexican attorney, and all Americans need to have a good one, in case they get caught up in this type or any type of legal or criminal situation whether it is their fault or not.
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I have been torturing myself by watching those YouTube videos that Dennis put up by Tall Artist, and although her heart seems in the right place, because she was one of the first to help that Rosarito life guard when he was fatally shot and killed.

But I also can't help but think the Rosarito police were in the right when they arrested her, and she certainly at the very least contributed to her arrest and lengthy stay in prison for a few reasons including her becoming unglued at the crime scene, and then later in prison, and some of this she admitted to in the video.

After watching the first video, I'm already suspecting something, and by the second video, she herself confirms my deep suspicions about her. ( I have not watched all four videos, but I watched most of the first two, and jumped around the third and fourth video to get a good sense on where she was going with the video series)

If you have read some of my posts, you'll know I'm not a fan of police officer tactics in the USA or Mexico, but I understand the tactics used by the police, especially in the states. ( cops won't take crap period, and you'll never win a fight against a cop for verbally abusing them, even if you think you're right)

I have no doubt that if the very same thing happened in the US, that she also would have been at the very least arrested and probably would have been locked up about the same amount of time, but the circumstances would have been a little different in the US.

Hopefully, after watching the video, and reading about this incident, others will be able to see what I'm talking about, and if not. I'll be back to explain it.

There are two sides to every story, and one of the things I like to do, is put my feet in the other persons shoes, because it really help me gain perspective on the other side of the story.

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]

BajaLuna - 10-10-2013 at 09:51 PM

I agree with some of what you said, JoeJustJoe, she was arrested partly for going off the rails. She was emotional no doubt, she just witnessed a murder and watched a man die, hard to get your composure after that and she probably had a lot of adrenlen running through her. And cops don't take crap. But she shouldn't have been in there that long, and more than likely would not have been in that long in the U.S...48 hours IF on a weekend arrest perhaps. IF they had just found out what her involvement was from the get-go and did their job as professionals, you know like basic things like gathering information, then things would have been cleared up sooner rather than later. They didn't even really question her till days after the arrest. Wouldn't you think if they had really felt she was quilty/a valid suspect, that they would have interrogated her immediately?

She wanted to identify the man, sketch his picture but they wouldn't let her. It was all about power and control, and maybe even more so, wanting to silence her for a few days.

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by BajaLuna]

BajaLuna - 10-10-2013 at 09:56 PM

well an attorney would have been ideal IF one was allowed a phone call! what's the point now, to get your pound of flesh out of the Rosarito PD? Not going to happen! Her video hopefully will go a long ways to give others a heads up about the corrupt PD there.

EnsenadaDr - 10-10-2013 at 09:58 PM

Luna my thought is this. If this lady went berserk you immediately suspect an association with the victim. It could have been a drug deal or some crime gone wrong. She could have been involved. Most murders are crimes of passion with over 90% of murderers being closely related to the victim. They were trying to break her down to admit something most likely. Using tactics they use in the US, albeit in not so nice situations. We have all heard about the conditions in Mexican jails, so respect the Mexican police and don't mouth off to them. No one is perfect in this world. But realize you aren't going to get hotel accommodations or the Hotel Coral in Downtown Rosarito holding tank.
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna
I agree with some of what you said, JoeJustJoe, she was arrested partly for going off the rails. She was emotional no doubt, she just witnessed a murder and watched a man die, hard to get your composure after that and she probably had a lot of adrenlen running through her. And cops don't take crap. But she shouldn't have been in there that long IF at all, and more than likely would not have been in that long in the U.S...48 hours IF on a weekend arrest perhaps. IF they had just found out what her involvement was from the get-go and did their job as professionals, you know like basic things like gathering information, then things would have been cleared up sooner rather than later.

I mean come on...they KNEW she was not the murderer. And more than likely they knew who was, because they knew she wanted to identify the man, sketch his picture but they wouldn't let her. It was all about power and control, and maybe even more so, wanting to silence her for a few days.

BajaLuna - 10-10-2013 at 10:09 PM

If no one was there and I wasn't a trained professional (I'm not a medical professional), it wouldn't have mattered, I probably would have jumped in, not to administer medical help...but just because someone does not have a medical background does not mean they aren't there for other reasons, like holding someone's hand while they are dying, That is a very important job too, to just BE with someone and comfort them. She wasn't thinking of herself, she acted intuitively, that's obvious! I just hope if I ever needed help, a helping spirit would appear! She certainly paid her karma forward 10-fold!

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by BajaLuna]

bajabound2005 - 10-11-2013 at 07:01 AM

actually, I DON'T read nomad anymore; someone sent this to me. only saw that ONE AND ONLY "attempt" at your post of this on pbbb, which WAS posted. keep your crappy comments to yourself or say them directly to me.

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS




Barbaric...fer sure.
I've made two efforts to post this on the Punta Banda Bulletin Board, but due to their censorship policy toward me specifically, as well as the owner, Kathleen Taormina's [aka bajabound 2005 here on the board] involvement with the Baja Image Committee, she won't put it up.
It's a fair and balanced crap fest of restaurant ads there.
May Gawd help the outsider who may be looking for truth of the area on that board.



Well....they just posted one of them. I appreciate that. Thank you. [Kathleen reads this]

monoloco - 10-11-2013 at 07:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
That's not my point. If no one was there and if I was a trained medical professional I would go. But someone who hasn't had one iota of medical background for over 20 years and hears gunshots, why have 2 fatalities instead of one? I understand the logic of the Mexican police being suspicious. Should we all be lemmings and follow each other off the cliff? What about safety measures? If there are gunshots I don't think you should go out to the beach period. Leave that responsibility to law enforcement or trained officials. As a medical professional I would not advise anyone untrained unless it was a dire emergency where no help was available to run out in a potentially fatal environment. I would be putting people in harm's way to suggest they do what this woman did. She saw someone going for more help, and one fireman was by her side. It's not about having huevos, it's about knowing your limitations and avoiding a potentially fatal situation.
Did you even watch her video? She saw the shooter run away and went to help the victim. I would hope that anyone would do the same thing. For her efforts, in she became a victim of some very unprofessional police officers, who were obviously not interested in investigating the crime. Once she was in custody, she was denied many of her basic rights, one of which, the right to contact her consulate, is a violation of article 36 of the Vienna Convention. I think you are very sick to be blaming the victim here, and being an apologist for a corrupt and unprofessional police department. There was absolutely no excuse for this woman being treated the way she was.

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 07:50 AM

Where are you getting me blaming the victim? I don't think we should blame the police either. She said if someone had been there 5 minutes early they could have saved this guy's life. First of all she is complaining about a few minutes' lapse in response from the police. What do you think they were doing? They were assessing the situation for danger and other people around that could have weapons. I am not blaming her. I am saying you need to look at the whole situation in its totality. You had a shooting, it could have been a group effort, and her complaining that she was "holding his guts" in and he was gurgling at the mouth leads me to believe this man was beyond repair. Screaming that the police didn't come immediately which was only about 5 minutes is understandable because like I said they were assessing the situation. Look what happened to Ron Hoff and his wife. They decided to be Good Samaritans and check their neighbors' house. They got almost killed in the process. If there had not been gunfire, yes, by all means go to the beach and help out the person if they were alone. But leave a crime scene to the professionals. What do you think if Ron and his wife called the police first? They would have not been left for dead. BTW, 5 minutes more would have not made a difference with the victim, he was obviously bleeding uncontrollably and would not have made it to the hospital in an ambulance ride. I am not agreeing with the way she was treated either. Doesn't it always have to be all or nothing in an opinion? There were a lot of grey areas to this situation.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 07:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
actually, I DON'T read nomad anymore; someone sent this to me. only saw that ONE AND ONLY "attempt" at your post of this on pbbb, which WAS posted. keep your crappy comments to yourself or say them directly to me.




Now Now....you can control my speech on your board, as you often do with silent censorship.....but not here. You blatantly allow some of the frustrated housewife winos to attack and pile up on me, but refuse my defensive replies to such.
Can't do that here. Stay tuned.

You really should close down that board. It's dead from irrelevance and over exposure to restaurant ads....which NEVER change.
I'm sure the door is now closed for me, but if I make an effort to post, and it's silently rejected, like so many of my efforts are, I'll mention it here....every time, but you don't read here so what do you care.

monoloco - 10-11-2013 at 07:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Where are you getting me blaming the victim? I don't think we should blame the police either. She said if someone had been there 5 minutes early they could have saved this guy's life. First of all she is complaining about a few minutes' lapse in response from the police. What do you think they were doing? They were assessing the situation for danger and other people around that could have weapons. I am not blaming her. I am saying you need to look at the whole situation in its totality. You had a shooting, it could have been a group effort, and her complaining that she was "holding his guts" in and he was gurgling at the mouth leads me to believe this man was beyond repair. Screaming that the police didn't come immediately which was only about 5 minutes is understandable because like I said they were assessing the situation. Look what happened to Ron Hoff and his wife. They decided to be Good Samaritans and check their neighbors' house. They got almost killed in the process. If there had not been gunfire, yes, by all means go to the beach and help out the person if they were alone. But leave a crime scene to the professionals. What do you think if Ron and his wife called the police first? They would have not been left for dead. BTW, 5 minutes more would have not made a difference with the victim, he was obviously bleeding uncontrollably and would not have made it to the hospital in an ambulance ride. I am not agreeing with the way she was treated either. Doesn't it always have to be all or nothing in an opinion? There were a lot of grey areas to this situation.
You are totally being an apologist for the egregious behavior of the Rosarito police. There is absolutely no excuse for the way they treated Gretchen, animals in the pound receive more humane treatment than she did.

Do something

bajaguy - 10-11-2013 at 08:00 AM

I posted this on the Talk Baja board, it is reposted here with permission from me...........
*********************************
It is all good and well to post our complaints and problems on this board and other Baja related boards, but we are preaching to the choir.

From personal background and experience, the more noise one makes to various press outlets and elected and appointed officials on both side of the border, things will change. Nobody likes bad press or politicians breathing down your back.........write the letters, make the calls.

These boards are a great source of information, but complaining on these boards doesn't solve the problem.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 08:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy

It is all good and well to post our complaints and problems on this board and other Baja related boards, but we are preaching to the choir.



Better preaching to the choir than talking to the wall......not to mention, there's a vulnerability issue to be considered for those of us who live down here.

redmesa - 10-11-2013 at 08:28 AM

I think Gretchen was very compassionate, brave but fool hearty. Unfortunately, I find myself avoiding any issues or conflicts in Baja that do not directly involve me because I just think I would do more harm than good with my meager knowledge of the language and culture. Secondly, she allowed her heart to take over her reason when a paramedic arrived that was the signal for her to back away-- the responsibility should have been passed , be it for the good or bad it is not anymore her call. We have seen on the board in the past what tragedies can be fall an innocent helping person --so I think the word is caution when approaching a potentially dangerous situation anywhere in the world. First rule of any aid is to assess the environment and establish your safety. Obviously, the police did not understand the behaviour of Gretchen but normally in Canada they would have put her in the police car to calm down and then questioned her. For her to be left in a cell for 72 hours is absolutely horrible and cruel but fighting with a police person is always a bad idea. It is always a losing situation even when you can speak the language. This is just a heart wrenching story and I feel so sorry for the innocent victims.

bajaguy - 10-11-2013 at 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy

It is all good and well to post our complaints and problems on this board and other Baja related boards, but we are preaching to the choir.



Better preaching to the choir than talking to the wall......not to mention, there's a vulnerability issue to be considered for those of us who live down here.





Ya know Dennis, it's like the lottery.........if you don't play, you can't win.

And if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Doing nothing but posting on the Baja boards does not solve anything......be passive or be agressive

shari - 10-11-2013 at 08:42 AM

I think atrocities such as this are important to be discussed and learned from....from all angles. Perhaps someone may contribute a valuable idea or input to help make some changes so that others may not suffer the same fate.it cant hurt anyway.
thank you Dennis for posting this and being the big man who apologizes when necessary.

durrelllrobert - 10-11-2013 at 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by aguachico
Thanks for sharing that.


Only 4 videos out of the 223 she has posted on Utube. Always in the right place at the right time to see something and claim it as her own story?

wessongroup - 10-11-2013 at 08:57 AM

Great JOe ... you be the "Lifeguard" in this case .... :biggrin::biggrin:

Thanks Dennis

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 08:59 AM

I think there is an apology in order for calling Kathleen's friends a bunch of frustrated housewife winos, that comment was not necessary. There are plenty of closet homebody male boozers in Punta Banda as well. I have been a victim of The Wrath if I decide to stick up for my point of view here as well. If a woman does not go along with the flow, they are singled out to be a victim of derision and/or veiled warnings. I enjoy the postings on the PBBB and yes I agree with Dennis that more balanced news should be available, but hitting below the belt is not necessary, especially to a woman from a man. I give Kathleen a lot of credit for getting herself in tip top shape and doing probably what no woman her age in the community has done by riding in the Rosarito Ensenada bicycle race. On this one fact alone Kathleen deserves a token of respect. It seems to me that if we don't do what others want sometimes we get a severe tongue lashing. I agree with Shari as this situation is something we can learn from definitely.

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by EnsenadaDr]

monoloco - 10-11-2013 at 09:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Quote:
Originally posted by aguachico
Thanks for sharing that.


Only 4 videos out of the 223 she has posted on Utube. Always in the right place at the right time to see something and claim it as her own story?
Even if she was combative or interfered with the police, it does not excuse the treatment that she received in the Rosarito jail. Even the most heinous criminals deserve basic human rights when incarcerated, The fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate is particularly disturbing.

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 09:10 AM

Is this the first time you have heard of this Monoloco, living in Mexico?
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Quote:
Originally posted by aguachico
Thanks for sharing that.


Only 4 videos out of the 223 she has posted on Utube. Always in the right place at the right time to see something and claim it as her own story?
Even if she was combative or interfered with the police, it does not excuse the treatment that she received in the Rosarito jail. Even the most heinous criminals deserve basic human rights when incarcerated, The fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate is particularly disturbing.

BajaRat - 10-11-2013 at 09:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I think there is an apology in order for calling Kathleen's friends a bunch of frustrated housewife winos, that comment was not necessary. There are plenty of closet homebody male boozers in Punta Banda as well. I have been a victim of The Wrath if I decide to stick up for my point of view here as well. If a woman does not go along with the flow, they are singled out to be a victim of derision and/or veiled warnings. I enjoy the postings on the PBBB and yes I agree with Dennis that more balanced news should be available, but hitting below the belt is not necessary, especially to a woman from a man. I give Kathleen a lot of credit for getting herself in tip top shape and doing probably what no woman her age in the community has done by riding in the Rosarito Ensenada bicycle race. On this one fact alone Kathleen deserves a token of respect. It seems to me that if we don't do what others want sometimes we get a severe tongue lashing. I agree with Shari as this situation is something we can learn from definitely.

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by EnsenadaDr]



Please don't play the enlightened or holy er than thou crap, you are as highly opinionated as any of us and if one was to venture to the dark side off topic board they would see you are well versed in insults and vile language.
Poor me ain't workin Doc :rolleyes:

JoeJustJoe - 10-11-2013 at 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
That's not my point. If no one was there and if I was a trained medical professional I would go. But someone who hasn't had one iota of medical background for over 20 years and hears gunshots, why have 2 fatalities instead of one? I understand the logic of the Mexican police being suspicious. Should we all be lemmings and follow each other off the cliff? What about safety measures? If there are gunshots I don't think you should go out to the beach period. Leave that responsibility to law enforcement or trained officials. As a medical professional I would not advise anyone untrained unless it was a dire emergency where no help was available to run out in a potentially fatal environment. I would be putting people in harm's way to suggest they do what this woman did. She saw someone going for more help, and one fireman was by her side. It's not about having huevos, it's about knowing your limitations and avoiding a potentially fatal situation.
Did you even watch her video? She saw the shooter run away and went to help the victim. I would hope that anyone would do the same thing. For her efforts, in she became a victim of some very unprofessional police officers, who were obviously not interested in investigating the crime. Once she was in custody, she was denied many of her basic rights, one of which, the right to contact her consulate, is a violation of article 36 of the Vienna Convention. I think you are very sick to be blaming the victim here, and being an apologist for a corrupt and unprofessional police department. There was absolutely no excuse for this woman being treated the way she was.


What are you talking about? The police arrested the alleged shooter of the Mexican lifeguard who was killed by a Mexican surfer who went by the nickname "El Acapulco" and was known as a jerk, and bully who often got in augments and fights with others.

The police did their job, while this crazy women was yelling at them and demanding they they go chase the shooter and arrest him.

The police acted like any other police department when confronted by a crazy obvious unbalanced person going off the rails.

At the very least read the facts of the case before making your comments, and I would also suggest watching the women on her own YouTube video for clues about her mental condition
________________________________________________.


http://rosaritoenlanoticia2.blogspot.com/2013/10/asesinan-bo...



http://www.afntijuana.info/seguridad/21716_capturan_asesino_...

From Google translate part of the article:


Francisco Castro Trenti, director of Public Security of Playas de Rosarito, reported that at approximately 8:45 am on Friday, right on the beach and about five meters from the house where lifeguard was killed after an altercation Tejeda day earlier with a man surfing, who has been identified as the "Acapulco" by the eyewitnesses.

After a verbal fight, according to the investigation, Sanchez said Tejeda was threatened with death by the surfer, who even followed him in his hour of food at a restaurant where they continued the fight and insults.

The next day, while some practiced these sports and exercised, "The Acapulco" came to insult the lifeguard was on its route monitoring, and a moment later pulled a gun that shot straight to Tejeda, who died while being transferred to the hospital.

The police chief stated that municipal units began a search of the culprit through the details of the multiple witnesses who said, helped capture the man the next day.
He announced that after his arrest, the surfer was made available to the relevant authorities and will be presented today the judge to determine what follows.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 09:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I give Kathleen a lot of credit for getting herself in tip top shape and doing probably what no woman her age in the community has done by riding in the Rosarito Ensenada bicycle race.


That's only because she's sixty years younger than her peers in PB.
By the way...it's not a race. It's a "ride."

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 10:00 AM

It is all in the context Rat. I don't think you should be threatened if you decide to state your opinion. Dennis has a point and I owned up to that. I would like to see more realistic news being posted on the PBBB and Dennis tries to do that. We all get angry to a degree. I didn't know you were a reader of the dark side, BTW. I state my opinion, and I am no longer a member of the Dark Side for the same reason. I stated my opinion and was crucified for it. So it seems to be a trend on these boards.
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaRat
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I think there is an apology in order for calling Kathleen's friends a bunch of frustrated housewife winos, that comment was not necessary. There are plenty of closet homebody male boozers in Punta Banda as well. I have been a victim of The Wrath if I decide to stick up for my point of view here as well. If a woman does not go along with the flow, they are singled out to be a victim of derision and/or veiled warnings. I enjoy the postings on the PBBB and yes I agree with Dennis that more balanced news should be available, but hitting below the belt is not necessary, especially to a woman from a man. I give Kathleen a lot of credit for getting herself in tip top shape and doing probably what no woman her age in the community has done by riding in the Rosarito Ensenada bicycle race. On this one fact alone Kathleen deserves a token of respect. It seems to me that if we don't do what others want sometimes we get a severe tongue lashing. I agree with Shari as this situation is something we can learn from definitely.

[Edited on 10-11-2013 by EnsenadaDr]



Please don't play the enlightened or holy er than thou crap, you are as highly opinionated as any of us and if one was to venture to the dark side off topic board they would see you are well versed in insults and vile language.
Poor me ain't workin Doc :rolleyes:

BajaLuna - 10-11-2013 at 10:04 AM

It's good to get other's opinions, it allows us to see other perspectives and not be so dug into our own. I understand Doc's point of view and I agree with some of what she is saying, I can see how the Police might have thought she was involved, although they didn't investigate what her involvement even was until days later which is just mind-boggling to say the least. And I agree with just about ALL of what monoloco is saying, although I think her getting hysterical before being arrested, and then her combativeness once she got to the jail did not do her good, but once in jail there was no excuse for the way she was treated, I mean not being able to call the embassy or a friend that's just wrong and I too feel there is a lot we can learn from this situation as Shari is saying. I personally probably would have helped the victim without a thought, that would have been my first inclination but that's just me. After reading these posts I might think twice about doing that now in Mexico. Sad though that as fellow human beings we might have to think twice of what the negative consequences could be if we did help another fellow human being in Mexico.

durrelllrobert - 10-11-2013 at 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Quote:
Originally posted by aguachico
Thanks for sharing that.


Only 4 videos out of the 223 she has posted on Utube. Always in the right place at the right time to see something and claim it as her own story?
Even if she was combative or interfered with the police, it does not excuse the treatment that she received in the Rosarito jail. Even the most heinous criminals deserve basic human rights when incarcerated, The fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate is particularly disturbing.


If you Google Life Guard killed at Playas Rosarito you will only find the story on the Fulano Info site, the Maggie's Madness site and the Talk Baja site. The later has the articles from the local press and they say nothing about n American woman being at the scene or being arrested (which may be understandable). It also states that he died at the hospital; not on the beach:

http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLi...de-muerte.html

Someone named Stacy Taylor also posted this on his blog:

http://stacytaylor.com/category/mar-tejada/

After watching that scene unfold from my 10th floor ivory tower, I wandered down to street level to see what I could find out.
By the time I reached my deck, a small crowd had gathered near a lifeguard tower at the tide line. A red haired woman appeared to be cradling the head of a man who was lying in the sand.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 10:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy




Ya know Dennis, it's like the lottery.........if you don't play, you can't win.


Going up against a Mexico police establishment isn't a game, and the winning percentage of lotteries is a scary analogy.
Quote:

And if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Doing nothing but posting on the Baja boards does not solve anything......be passive or be agressive



I can stand plenty of heat and you know it.
What seems futile down here is fighting other people's fights and being left to swing alone in the wind.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 10:18 AM

One more thing........although I believe the vid is credible, we can only accept that on faith and emotion alone. We still don't really know what went down.
That isn't enough for me to join a million man march to DF.

And..if it is BS, I'd nominate this woman for an academy award.

willardguy - 10-11-2013 at 10:19 AM

so where does gary patton fit into all of this? understandably with all that's transpired gary is on gretchen's back burner, but before all this, gretchen has seen the photos, was or wasn't it gary?

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
so where does gary patton fit into all of this? understandably with all that's transpired gary is on gretchen's back burner, but before all this, gretchen has seen the photos, was or wasn't it gary?


It was mentioned she verified his ID with the fotos. Don't know if that's fact either.

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 10:26 AM

I personally have my doubts. This woman is a sensationalist, she said there was "period blood" on the wall of the jail, come on people, how can you tell that? Once again how she was treated was not right, but pushing and physically fighting policemen to get into the cell is crazy. She was lucky she wasn't beat up or shot.

TMW - 10-11-2013 at 10:38 AM

It's called reaction. People react differently in the heat of the moment. I once went after two guys trying to steal my neighbors car after they broke his side window. It was after midnight and they took off. Later I thought wow I could have been shot and killed. But at the time I never thought about my safety. I once jumped into the ocean fully dressed to save a kid that had fallen in from a rock cliff. I just reacted. Turns out he could swim and was OK, really didn't need my help.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TW
It's called reaction. People react differently in the heat of the moment. I once went after two guys trying to steal my neighbors car after they broke his side window. It was after midnight and they took off. Later I thought wow I could have been shot and killed. But at the time I never thought about my safety. I once jumped into the ocean fully dressed to save a kid that had fallen in from a rock cliff. I just reacted. Turns out he could swim and was OK, really didn't need my help.


You can share my foxhole any time.

TMW - 10-11-2013 at 10:47 AM

Thanks

JoeJustJoe - 10-11-2013 at 10:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
so where does gary patton fit into all of this? understandably with all that's transpired gary is on gretchen's back burner, but before all this, gretchen has seen the photos, was or wasn't it gary?


There is a new Nomad member that goes by the handle of Tall Artist, which is Gretchen's artist nickname she calls herself. ( Tall Artist only made one post)

More than likely it's some ex Nomad member having a little fun, because they saw the same problems with her as I did, and so doubt it's really Gretchen.

But then again in part III of Gretchen's "Youtube" video she admits she is bi-polar and is off her meds in jail. And this could also explain why she sees people who aren't really there.

If you watch the YouTube video closely like I have now did. You'll see a few problems with Gretchen's perceptions.

Now I'm not calling BS on Grethen's whole story, but clearly she has a few problems going on, and I believe the Rosarito police acted like any other police department when confronted with a combative arrested suspect going absolutely nuts, and sometimes that involves ignoring or delaying Constitutional rights a suspect might be entitled too, that's until at least they calm down and start action like a rational person. Police have ways of getting around those pesky Constitutional rights, and that includes cops in the USA. ( Now I respect human and Constitutional rights but I also know how the police operate on both sides of the border)



[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]

greengoes - 10-11-2013 at 10:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Quote:
Originally posted by aguachico
Thanks for sharing that.


Only 4 videos out of the 223 she has posted on Utube. Always in the right place at the right time to see something and claim it as her own story?


Maybe she is Maggie?

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 10:59 AM

The heat of the moment should have nothing to do with it. If someone is attending the wounded especially in a very dangerous situation, and in this case, someone took off on his moto to get someone else, leave it alone. If there is no one helping, OF COURSE help the guy. But you aren't needed at this point, period. Just think if Zimmerman had done what the police told him to do after he reported Trayvon. STAY AWAY!! Sometimes the police have some good ideas.

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 11:01 AM

We both have our suspicions as to who Maggie and Greengoes are, and unless they are both willing to meet in a well lighted place and prove who they are, we will all go on thinking who we know they are.
Quote:
Originally posted by greengoes
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Quote:
Originally posted by aguachico
Thanks for sharing that.


Only 4 videos out of the 223 she has posted on Utube. Always in the right place at the right time to see something and claim it as her own story?


Maybe she is Maggie?

tripledigitken - 10-11-2013 at 11:04 AM

Did I miss the apology part?

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
But then again in part III of Gretchen's "Youtube" video she admits she is bi-polar and is off her meds in jail. And this could also explain why she sees people who aren't really there.



Bi-Polar isn't delusional, and if she was off meds for three days, she wouldn't be morphing into a rubber-room case. meds take a long time to build up in the system as well as wear off to a point of personality change.

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 11:07 AM

Dennis, this woman might have a borderline schizophrenic disorder which would not be apparent unless she was placed under extreme emotional stress, we don't know what her mental disability in totality is.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
But then again in part III of Gretchen's "Youtube" video she admits she is bi-polar and is off her meds in jail. And this could also explain why she sees people who aren't really there.



Bi-Polar isn't delusional, and if she was off meds for three days, she wouldn't be morphing into a rubber-room case. meds take a long time to build up in the system as well as wear off to a point of personality change.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr

Dennis, this woman might have a borderline schizophrenic disorder


Yeah yeah....she might have polio too. :fire:

DavidE - 10-11-2013 at 11:19 AM

I learned early on, to keep my cool around Mexican cops. It is almost suicide to dump on a cop verbally. I have seen eyeball-to-action cops draw a firearm when an unarmed drunk starts in with the most insulting of of groserias. Mexicans are by virtue more emotional then gringos and combine emotion with macho and bro' you got el problemo if you back them in a corner with insults.

Run TOWARD gunshots when a person has no idea what is going on? Having been in the middle of one balacera with my granddaughters I can tell you running TOWARD gunfire never entered my mind.

I have administered primer auxilios (first aid) to victims of two automobile accidents. The earliest one happened on that "razorback" stretch of Mex 1 south of El Rosario where it follows the top of a ridgeline for several miles. A car flipped, ejecting the driver. The car and passengers went down into the canyon. A Caminos Y Puentes showed up. I was bent over the victim, blood on my hands and on my shirt. He had gone out a window or to be more accurate, through a window. I could smell beer. I looked up. The cop had a hand on his holster as he approached. I looked at him pointed a thumb to my chest and said clearly "Medico!" His hand came off his holster. After I staunched the scalp and shoulder wound bleeding, the cop asked me which car was mine - the second one back, southbound. The young man was lifted into the back of a pickup truck, and it turned around and headed for the hospital. The cop of course took my name and driver license number. Before he let me go he checked with a couple other motorists to make sure I had not been involved. "You said you were a medico", the cop noted. Apparently it was the correct thing to say. Not doctor, medico.

The balacera happened in a Bodega Aurrera parking lot. Pop-pop-pop-poppity-pop-pop-pop. A ricochet chip of concrete hit me in the forehead. The girls were terrorized with fear. Pilar held my teeshirt to my forehead as I drove to La Mira for stitches. The doctors freaked out when I entered la clinica. Head wound. Bad bleeding. My chest and pants were soaked with blood.

It's one thing to stand back and TALK about a shooting and quite another to be involved in one.

I have forced myself for decades so that NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCE when the cops arrive, I shake their hand gently and greet them. Damned right it's hard. Damned right it's smart.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DavidE
I have forced myself for decades so that NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCE when the cops arrive, I shake their hand gently and greet them.


In San Diego, that gesture could get you shot around fifty times. :o

JoeJustJoe - 10-11-2013 at 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
But then again in part III of Gretchen's "Youtube" video she admits she is bi-polar and is off her meds in jail. And this could also explain why she sees people who aren't really there.



Bi-Polar isn't delusional, and if she was off meds for three days, she wouldn't be morphing into a rubber-room case. meds take a long time to build up in the system as well as wear off to a point of personality change.


Dennis have you ever seen a women go into a bi-polar rage? Maybe perhaps you yourself Dennis went into a bi-polar rage? Well, if you have, you're it isn't pretty to see. In my suburban neighborhood. I live by drug dealers, and one of their roommates is a young pretty women who from time to time goes into a bi-polar rage, and either me, or one of our other neighbors call the police on her, and they come and arrest her, and tell her she is going to be held for psychiatric evaluation, and a few days later she is back in her house again, and this repeats again every few weeks.

I have no doubt if this women acted up in the US that she too would have been arrested and held 72 hours for some kind of psychiatric evaluation. Her screams for Constitutional rights would have been ignored too.

In the video I think she said it took the cops 40 minutes to get her in the jail because she was fighting back, and she also cut her foot.

Does this sound like a normal rational women Dennis?

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

I have no doubt if this women acted up in the US that she too would have been arrested and held 72 hours for some kind of psychiatric evaluation. Her screams for Constitutional rights would have been ignored too.


She may have, however, been able to clean herself and been fed.
Quote:

Does this sound like a normal rational women Dennis?



A what???

willardguy - 10-11-2013 at 11:36 AM

bi-polar, sensationalistic, schizophrenic redhead that might have a knack for spinning yarns? the perfect nomad! :coolup:

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 11:39 AM

It's everyone's choice right here, RIGHT NOW, on this board to decide to stay in Mexico or to leave, and get what they think they deserve in Mexico and go back to the United States. Either as a temporary or permanent guest. No one here is going to change the system, overnight, or in 20 years. I say let the police do their job and don't interfere. If you don't like it, go back to the US. There are many good things about Mexico, just don't act belligerent to the Mexican police and end up in a Mexican jail. Anyone knows that, even Gretchen. They are not pretty. And with good reason. Ending up in a Mexican jail is a good crime deterrent, where in the US it is a relative country club. Enjoy what Mexico has to offer and stay out of trouble. No one is twisting your arm to live or visit there.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

I have no doubt if this women acted up in the US that she too would have been arrested and held 72 hours for some kind of psychiatric evaluation. Her screams for Constitutional rights would have been ignored too.


She may have, however, been able to clean herself and been fed.
Quote:

Does this sound like a normal rational women Dennis?



A what???

JoeJustJoe - 10-11-2013 at 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Dennis, this woman might have a borderline schizophrenic disorder which would not be apparent unless she was placed under extreme emotional stress, we don't know what her mental disability in totality is.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
But then again in part III of Gretchen's "Youtube" video she admits she is bi-polar and is off her meds in jail. And this could also explain why she sees people who aren't really there.



Bi-Polar isn't delusional, and if she was off meds for three days, she wouldn't be morphing into a rubber-room case. meds take a long time to build up in the system as well as wear off to a point of personality change.


Bingo, you know EnsenadaDr I was thinking the same thing, but I don't want to be sued, so it's only an opinion that a tragic event like this could trigger some type of serious underlying mental condition if a person already has a known mental disorder. I'm sure you have been schooled in brief psychiatric evaluations like I have EnsenadaDr, and at least you know who to refers these type of people to, if you suspect some type of mental condition.

One thing that I found weird in the YouTube videos, is this women talked about going on a walk with her dogs. Later in the video she admits the dogs are homeless beach dogs, and she talks about the dog chasing the lifeguards truck. Most homeless dogs that I see in Mexico, don't have the energy to go chasing trucks like other crazy well fed dogs. I'm even wondering if the dogs are even walking with this women unless she is feeding the dogs.

I know this is a minor thing to bring up, but it repeats itself. She also claims the alleged shooter was a well dressed weight lifter who just didn't lift circuit gym weights, but rather he lifted the barbells and must have did squats for those well developed legs.

If you saw the picture of the shooting suspect, he has a big gut, and he is out of shape! ( I could see the police looking for a well dressed muscle man, and it turns out the suspect didn't fit her description at all)

At the very least this woman's perception is way way off, and she would have made a terrible witness in my opinion, although she was right there.



[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
just don't act belligerent to the Mexican police and end up in a Mexican jail.

Hysteria isn't belligerence. It's a reaction born of frustration.
Quote:
Enjoy what Mexico has to offer and stay out of trouble. No one is twisting your arm to live or visit there.



Ohh goody. Some more of the "love it or leave it" BS.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I'm even wondering if the dogs are even walking with this women unless she is feeding the dogs.


Of course, this has a lot to do with everything.

JoeJustJoe - 10-11-2013 at 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I'm even wondering if the dogs are even walking with this women unless she is feeding the dogs.


Of course, this has a lot to do with everything.


It all adds up Dennis, and it paints a picture of somebody that may not be playing with a full deck.

Here is a picture of the alleged shooter Mexican surfer below. Does this guy fit Gretchen's physical description she gave in the "YouTube" video? What other things did Gretchen get wrong, or not tell us?


greengoes - 10-11-2013 at 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
bi-polar, sensationalistic, schizophrenic redhead that might have a knack for spinning yarns? the perfect nomad! :coolup:


Overqualified. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

monoloco - 10-11-2013 at 12:23 PM

I think that some of you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter or not if Gretchen is a bi-polar flaming nut case who became combative, abusive or argumentative, the police were within their rights to detain her, but they didn't have the right to abuse her in detention. She still has rights, even in Mexico, the fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate or anyone else is particularly chilling in light of the many people who disappear without a trace in this country. Those of you who are rationalizing the actions of the Rosarito police are the ones who are truly sick, have a little compassion, because this could just as easily happen to you.

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 12:25 PM

So what are you going to do about it Monoloco?
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I think that some of you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter or not if Gretchen is a bi-polar flaming nut case who became combative, abusive or argumentative, the police were within their rights to detain her, but they didn't have the right to abuse her in detention. She still has rights, even in Mexico, the fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate or anyone else is particularly chilling in light of the many people who disappear without a trace in this country. Those of you who are rationalizing the actions of the Rosarito police are the ones who are truly sick, have a little compassion, because this could just as easily happen to you.

JoeJustJoe - 10-11-2013 at 12:26 PM

Here we have a witness to what happened after the shooting from some American Blogger.

He seems to back up some of what Gretchen said, especially about the slow moving police, locked gates, but it also looks like the paramedics did what they could considering the gate was locked, and that caused a problem. ( again cops are trained medical medics, and they have every right to secure the area and make sure there aren't any other shooters around)

The witness also noted that Grenchen, "at first she was ignored, but as she became increasingly agitated and confrontational the cops had had enough. She was then physically restrained, handcuffed, and hauled away." ( again just about any cop when confronted by such a person would arrest or even shoot such a person if they become combative)

The blogger in my opinion is just another clueless American about Mexican culture. The problem is when they learn just a little about the Mexican culture, they apply it to the whole Mexican culture, and not a subculture where it actually belongs. Most Mexicans are Catholic and show the same type of emotions as American Catholics to the death of others. The annual Day of the Dead ceremonies, is just that, it's a annual ceremony, and the American blogger makes too much of it. What a dummy!:
________________________________________
From the blog:

I was washing the morning dishes last Friday when I heard gunshots from the beach below my balcony. Fireworks are blasted around here, as they are throughout Mexico, morning, noon, and night. But these were not the concussive booms I’ve grown accustomed to, but instead the “pop, pop, pop” you hear about in witness accounts of shootings. By the time I reached my deck, a small crowd had gathered near a lifeguard tower at the tide line. A red haired woman appeared to be cradling the head of a man who was lying in the sand.


Within a couple of minutes, a lifeguard truck appeared at the scene and sirens could be heard from the Bomberos station two blocks up the street. After about five agonizing minutes, an ambulance finally arrived at the locked gate to the parking lot that fronts the beach. The woman in the sand below was now bellowing hysterically for help. Unable to get past the gate, the ambulance waited outside the parking lot while lifeguards lifted the body onto the bed of their pickup and hauled him close enough to the ambulance where he could then be safely transferred. Unfortunately by now, two police cars blocked the ambulance’s retreat. Rosarito cops were wandering around listlessly, seemingly in no hurry to move their cars. The red-headed woman was beseeching the police to hurry up and get the flock out of the way. Another couple of minutes passed before the ambulance was finally allowed to speed away. As more police officers arrived, I could hear the woman below screaming “Why didn’t you do more? What is wrong with you?!” At first she was ignored, but as she became increasingly agitated and confrontational the cops had had enough. She was then physically restrained, handcuffed, and hauled away. Out by the waterline, a small pool of blood was soaking into the sand.

The victim of the shooting was named Mar Tejeda, a local lifeguard/fireman and surfer. He lived next door to my building in a small house adjacent to the beach. Mar Tejeda died that morning from gunshot wounds, shortly after arriving at a local hospital. I did not know him, but he and I would occasionally exchange pleasantries in one of my many walks around the neighborhood.

The red haired woman’s name is Gretchen Smith. A few days later she posted her account of what happened on her Facebook page:

_____________

Much has been made of Mexican’s attitude toward death. The bizarre rituals during the annual Day of the Dead ceremonies, where loved ones bring the deceased’s favorite foods and personal items to the cemetery seem from the outside like a joyous, not somber, celebration. Mexicans are said to show bravado when confronting death, to except its inevitability more readily then their northern neighbors, to laugh in the face of death. Shops all over Mexico specialize in hand crafted figurines of skeletal figures, the riotous and

http://stacytaylor.com/living-in-mexico/mar-tejeda/

monoloco - 10-11-2013 at 12:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
It's everyone's choice right here, RIGHT NOW, on this board to decide to stay in Mexico or to leave, and get what they think they deserve in Mexico and go back to the United States. Either as a temporary or permanent guest. No one here is going to change the system, overnight, or in 20 years. I say let the police do their job and don't interfere. If you don't like it, go back to the US. There are many good things about Mexico, just don't act belligerent to the Mexican police and end up in a Mexican jail. Anyone knows that, even Gretchen. They are not pretty. And with good reason. Ending up in a Mexican jail is a good crime deterrent, where in the US it is a relative country club. Enjoy what Mexico has to offer and stay out of trouble. No one is twisting your arm to live or visit there.
Wow, for a doctor, you certainly don't show much compassion.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Here is a picture of the alleged shooter Mexican surfer below.






If this guy's a surfer, I'm a Navy Seal. :lol::lol:

monoloco - 10-11-2013 at 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So what are you going to do about it Monoloco?
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I think that some of you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter or not if Gretchen is a bi-polar flaming nut case who became combative, abusive or argumentative, the police were within their rights to detain her, but they didn't have the right to abuse her in detention. She still has rights, even in Mexico, the fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate or anyone else is particularly chilling in light of the many people who disappear without a trace in this country. Those of you who are rationalizing the actions of the Rosarito police are the ones who are truly sick, have a little compassion, because this could just as easily happen to you.
Well, I don't live any where near Rosarito so probably nothing, but if it happened to a member of my community, myself and many others here would be standing up for Gretchen and demanding answers of why she was treated so poorly. I certainly wouldn't be making excuses for the inhuman treatment she received.

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 12:36 PM

Really? and who would you go to to complain?
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So what are you going to do about it Monoloco?
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I think that some of you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter or not if Gretchen is a bi-polar flaming nut case who became combative, abusive or argumentative, the police were within their rights to detain her, but they didn't have the right to abuse her in detention. She still has rights, even in Mexico, the fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate or anyone else is particularly chilling in light of the many people who disappear without a trace in this country. Those of you who are rationalizing the actions of the Rosarito police are the ones who are truly sick, have a little compassion, because this could just as easily happen to you.
Well, I don't live any where near Rosarito so probably nothing, but if it happened to a member of my community, myself and many others here would be standing up for Gretchen and demanding answers of why she was treated so poorly. I certainly wouldn't be making excuses for the inhuman treatment she received.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 12:41 PM

This is getting ridiculous.

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 12:43 PM

You are saying I'm talking BS about if you don't like it go home, so here I am trying to listen as what we can do to change the system and you don't like that either. Monoloco might have some good suggestions.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
This is getting ridiculous.

JoeJustJoe - 10-11-2013 at 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I think that some of you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter or not if Gretchen is a bi-polar flaming nut case who became combative, abusive or argumentative, the police were within their rights to detain her, but they didn't have the right to abuse her in detention. She still has rights, even in Mexico, the fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate or anyone else is particularly chilling in light of the many people who disappear without a trace in this country. Those of you who are rationalizing the actions of the Rosarito police are the ones who are truly sick, have a little compassion, because this could just as easily happen to you.


Mexico says it's respects the Mexican Constitution, and I have already heard from other people who live in Rosarito, and they say they have a giat 30' x30 " poster in the Rosarito police department for Americans. The poster says that if you're American and arrested you have a right to call the American consulate, and I'm also told Rosarito police respect people's human and Constitutional rights as well as they can.

But police are human beings too, and if this women is going off the rail, that she just about admitted when she was first put in prison. She just isn't going to be able to make any calls, until she calms down. I'm sorry, when you are arrested in the US or Mexico, the police don't just hand you the phone to call your consulate. ( not that the phone call going to help out over minor problems) They are going to put you in a padded room, until you calm down, and aren't a threat to yourself, others, and the community.

You're only getting one side of the story, and that's the woman's side, and even she admitted a judge came to her jail cell. Obviously the Judge determined he was going to give her a little more time out, and she may have had her day in court before a judge right there, and therefore her Constitutional honored, we of course don't know, because we haven't seen any documents from either side.

What's this about a translator? I bet over 90 percent of the judges speak English in Baja, and a good number of the police speak English. This women, although might have poor speaking Spanish skills, probably knows more Spanish than she lets on, she was able to put a few Spanish sentences together, and that would indicate she probably knows more Spanish than she claims.

Frankly a lot of things she was talking about wasn't credible, and she seems to really seems to be suffering from a lot of paranoids thoughts of getting raped, getting drugged and thinking the police department is going to do bad things to her, when in reality they probably wanted her to be quiet, and start acting sane. She was so paranoid of getting raped, she had thoughts of biting off Mexican cops penises!


Monoloco wrote: because this could just as easily happen to you.

I guess so if you go into a bi-polar rage, accusing the police of everything, and order them to do what you say,although you don't speak the local language, and you tell the cops to go chase the bad guys, and plug this guys bullet holes with your fingers. And then when you are arrested you put up a fight against the police in prison by kicking, hitting, and screaming!

Yeah, I guess this could happen to anyone.



[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]

monoloco - 10-11-2013 at 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Really? and who would you go to to complain?
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So what are you going to do about it Monoloco?
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
I think that some of you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter or not if Gretchen is a bi-polar flaming nut case who became combative, abusive or argumentative, the police were within their rights to detain her, but they didn't have the right to abuse her in detention. She still has rights, even in Mexico, the fact that she was denied the right to contact her consulate or anyone else is particularly chilling in light of the many people who disappear without a trace in this country. Those of you who are rationalizing the actions of the Rosarito police are the ones who are truly sick, have a little compassion, because this could just as easily happen to you.
Well, I don't live any where near Rosarito so probably nothing, but if it happened to a member of my community, myself and many others here would be standing up for Gretchen and demanding answers of why she was treated so poorly. I certainly wouldn't be making excuses for the inhuman treatment she received.
One thing I have learned from living here is that the authorities don't appreciate bad press, here in Todos Santos the local economy depends on foreign residents and tourists, so when there is a problem it is fairly easy to get the mayor and the governor to listen to the concerns of the foreign residents. The ministerio publico has been replaced twice here in the last year due mainly to complaints from the foreign residents about poor performance. If enough people make noise about it, maybe the next person will be treated better, if nobody complains, nothing will change. It's imperative that foreigners are at least given their right to contact their consul when arrested, the fact that Gretchen wasn't, is a clear violation of international law, and should not be taken lightly.

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 12:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
You are saying I'm talking BS about if you don't like it go home, so here I am trying to listen as what we can do to change the system and you don't like that either.


First....you get rid of Mordita. Then, the cartels.
Now...fix the economy and bring back tourism.
Only then will you be prepared to change the legal system. :lol:

Well dressed?

durrelllrobert - 10-11-2013 at 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe


I know this is a minor thing to bring up, but it repeats itself. She also claims the alleged shooter was a well dressed weight lifter who just didn't lift circuit gym weights, but rather he lifted the barbells and must have did squats for those well developed legs.

If you saw the picture of the shooting suspect, he has a big gut, and he is out of shape! ( I could see the police looking for a well dressed muscle man, and it turns out the suspect didn't fit her description at all)


[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]


This is part of something posted on Talk Baja:

Apparently the surfer was changing out of his wetsuit and was naked in front of the Lifeguard's wife- and she called him. The Surfer and lifeguard got into an argument about it and the next day the El Acapulco guy came back and killed him. Nothing to do with lifeguarding. Just street-chatter of course.


bajagrouper - 10-11-2013 at 01:00 PM

She says she fought off police attempts to place her in a jail cell for 40+ min., and all she had was a small cut on her foot, I think if I was battling police for 40 min., I might have arms cut and bruised and maybe some face or head injuries....

I can understand her reasoning for not drinking the opened half full water bottle, but 2 episodes later when she explains she can not eat the rice provided with her hands because they are still covered in dried blood, I believe I would have tried to wash the blood off with the 1/2 bottle of water....

1. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations

monoloco - 10-11-2013 at 01:03 PM

The right to consular access is guaranteed under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations,2 a multilateral treaty signed by over 100 countries, including the United States. You may also have this right under a bilateral (two-party) treaty between the United States and your country of nationality. Article 36(1) of the Vienna Convention reads as follows:
(1) consular officers shall be free to communicate with nationals of the sending State and to have access to them. Nationals of the sending State shall have the same freedom with respect to communication with and access to consular officers of the sending State;
(2) if he so requests, the competent authorities of the receiving State shall, without delay, inform the consular post of the sending State if, within its consular district, a national of that State is arrested or committed to prison or to custody pending trial or is detained in any other manner. Any communication addressed to the consular post by the person arrested, in prison, custody or detention shall also be forwarded by the said authorities without delay. The said authorities shall inform the person concerned without delay of his rights under this sub-paragraph;
(3) consular officers shall have the right to visit a national of the sending State who is in prison, custody or detention, to converse and correspond with him and to arrange for his legal representation. They shall also have the right to visit any national of the sending State who is in prison, custody or detention in their district in pursuance of a judgment. Nevertheless, consular officers shall refrain from taking action on behalf of a national who is in prison, custody or detention if he expressly opposes such action.3

JoeJustJoe - 10-11-2013 at 01:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajagrouper
She says she fought off police attempts to place her in a jail cell for 40+ min., and all she had was a small cut on her foot, I think if I was battling police for 40 min., I might have arms cut and bruised and maybe some face or head injuries....

I can understand her reasoning for not drinking the opened half full water bottle, but 2 episodes later when she explains she can not eat the rice provided with her hands because they are still covered in dried blood, I believe I would have tried to wash the blood off with the 1/2 bottle of water....


I say the Rosarito police showed great restraint. If this happened with the US border patrol, or the Fullerton police department in California, they probably would have beat the crazed women to death.

What is she doing fighting anyway? She is a older women, going up against a gang of strong men cops? She couldn't possibly win, no matter how she far she flies off the handle. Her paranoia about the Rosarito police are not facts, but her own paranoid thoughts. She has no business bringing up stories about other prisons inmates telling her she is probably going to be raped in prison for fighting back. From looking at her video, that's looks like a very remote possibility especially since she puts up such a good fight and acts crazy as all hell over attempts to have her jailed! I have no doubt she would try to bite it off!

The not drinking an unopened bottle in Mexico, is something I hear about all the time. It's just common paranoid thoughts from a lot of Americans in Mexico. The truth is Americans should worry less about getting drugged, and they should pay more attention to getting themselves drunk, which is a far more common problem than getting a date rape drugged spiked in your drink. I have busted a few drunks on other sites over this, where they claimed they were drugged more than three times, but what really probably happened is this person fell into a drunk stupor more than three times, and he was robbed while drunk and asleep.



[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]

shari - 10-11-2013 at 01:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaLuna
It's good to get other's opinions, it allows us to see other perspectives and not be so dug into our own. After reading these posts I might think twice about doing that now in Mexico. Sad though that as fellow human beings we might have to think twice of what the negative consequences could be if we did help another fellow human being in Mexico.


Yes, its very sad to think we must think twice about helping people but unfortunately that IS a reality of living in Mexico. I have been here for around 20 years and am still learning what and what is not acceptable here.

I learned that you will get into BIG trouble if you move a body after death...or if you are helping someone and they die in your car/house etc. So one must think about these things when confronted by a situation like this.

For example it is illegal to even argue loudly in public( let alone with the policia)..I figure in hopes of preventing escalation of things in a hot blooded culture. But I thought that in the event of an arrest, the police are obligated to provide a translator..I used to get called all the time in Guerrero Negro to come in and translate for the cops. I'm sure there are lots of english speaking people in Rosarito that could have been called which leads me to believe that there was some sort of cover up/corruption issue here. Like Baja Luna said, they may have just wanted to get rid of her for awhile....this is also a sad reality. Whatever the reason, her human rights were violated and I hope she takes her case to the human rights branch there to be investigated.

Gretchen has only lived here a short time and is obviously compassionate albeit emotional...so one cant blame her for not knowing what was culturally acceptable in this situation.

I wonder if she will stay in baja after this:?:

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 01:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajagrouper
I believe I would have tried to wash the blood off with the 1/2 bottle of water....


It would be a good time to be resourceful.
I was in an Ensenada cell awaiting deportation and there was some guy with a killer case of GI distress. The toilet was a hole in the ground and no such thing as TP.
Around that time, the human rights groups had convinced the city that they should start feeding the inmates something, which turned out to be a bowl of water soup and some old tortillas...still somewhat pliable.
The guy with the "runs' asked me if I had some TP, which I didn't, so I handed him a half dozen of the tortillas and told him to use these.
He looked at the tortillas...then at me like I was nuts, but did what he had to do.
It worked fine.

¿An Oxymarooon?

DavidE - 10-11-2013 at 01:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

I have no doubt if this women acted up in the US that she too would have been arrested and held 72 hours for some kind of psychiatric evaluation. Her screams for Constitutional rights would have been ignored too.


She may have, however, been able to clean herself and been fed.
Quote:

Does this sound like a normal rational women Dennis?



A what???




Now Dennis...........

I remember seeing a video of an "individual" named Rodney King, that would not obey cops. Mexicans have a name for people that antagonize cops...

"Piñata"

EnsenadaDr - 10-11-2013 at 03:17 PM

Wow and she is a Christian artist. Well, BajaRat I never claimed to be a devout Christian but I don't think I would say what Joe quoted her saying here, I come from the East Coast and my Dad was from Brooklyn so I did pick up some favorite East Coast quotes, but never did say that even to any man I was mad at. From what I understand she is around 40 years old, I guess Joe considers that "old". She also considers herself beautiful and able to go from rugged to formal in a moment's notice.

Here is her web page:

http://bajaartists.com/gretchen-m-smith/
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by bajagrouper
She says she fought off police attempts to place her in a jail cell for 40+ min., and all she had was a small cut on her foot, I think if I was battling police for 40 min., I might have arms cut and bruised and maybe some face or head injuries....

I can understand her reasoning for not drinking the opened half full water bottle, but 2 episodes later when she explains she can not eat the rice provided with her hands because they are still covered in dried blood, I believe I would have tried to wash the blood off with the 1/2 bottle of water....


I say the Rosarito police showed great restraint. If this happened with the US border patrol, or the Fullerton police department in California, they probably would have beat the crazed women to death.

What is she doing fighting anyway? She is a older women, going up against a gang of strong men cops? She couldn't possibly win, no matter how she far she flies off the handle. Her paranoia about the Rosarito police are not facts, but her own paranoid thoughts. She has no business bringing up stories about other prisons inmates telling her she is probably going to be raped in prison for fighting back. From looking at her video, that's looks like a very remote possibility especially since she puts up such a good fight and acts crazy as all hell over attempts to have her jailed! I have no doubt she would try to bite it off!

The not drinking an unopened bottle in Mexico, is something I hear about all the time. It's just common paranoid thoughts from a lot of Americans in Mexico. The truth is Americans should worry less about getting drugged, and they should pay more attention to getting themselves drunk, which is a far more common problem than getting a date rape drugged spiked in your drink. I have busted a few drunks on other sites over this, where they claimed they were drugged more than three times, but what really probably happened is this person fell into a drunk stupor more than three times, and he was robbed while drunk and asleep.



[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe]

tripledigitken - 10-11-2013 at 04:11 PM

It appears to me that some posters here are enjoying tearing this woman down. Her only sin was fighting with police whose credibiliy is questioned by most anyone who follows the history of that organization.

Anyone with half a brain knows that these posts are potentially forever on the internet. I quess you wouldn't mind your grandkids reading some of this.
Rant over.

Ken

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 04:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tripledigitken
Rant over.



And appreciated.
People here, trying to sound like they have some effing insight as to what "really" happened behind closed doors....it's beyond ridiculous.
I don't know...they don't know....and probably never will.

monoloco - 10-11-2013 at 04:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by tripledigitken
Rant over.



And appreciated.
People here, trying to sound like they have some effing insight as to what "really" happened behind closed doors....it's beyond ridiculous.
I don't know...they don't know....and probably never will.
True, but the one thing that is clear is that holding someone incommunicado for 72 hours, without charges, and basic needs, is beyond egregious.

BajaLuna - 10-11-2013 at 04:47 PM

I agree, Ken.

Character assassination is not cool. And questioning her integrity of a woman nobody knows who was just expressing HER truth and how she saw things go down, and was just trying to be a good citizen in helping a dying man. She admitted she was bi-polar, but I don't see how that has anything to do with her being questionable in her integrity...so what if she is bi-polar?...does that lessen her credibility? Bi-polar people can be good witnesses ya know, they can tell the truth from THEIR perspective, and just because she is bi-polar does not mean she might be schizophrenic, GEEZ. And so what if she is schizophrenic, does that make her story less true? I always go by my gut feeling with people, from the get-go when she came onto the scene at BN to say she had an encounter with Gary, I felt she was honest. Give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise! Tearing a woman to shreds because she told HER truth, is really so unfair. And then saying she was "paranoid" of being raped in a jail in Mexico, that was soooo uncalled for.....of course she was worried about that...she IS a woman Helllooooo I would have been FREAKED out about being raped too, what woman wouldn't have been? She is a woman alone, surrounded by a bunch of shady men who have proven they are unprofessional by raping another woman while she was in that jail... you betcha I would have been one freaked out woman too. Excuse me...the possibility of rape is NOT paranoia, it is real, it happens every day of every minute, in every country, and it is not to be minimized, sorry but that really upset me. I will stand up for any of my Sisters, American Mexican white brown or black bi-polar or not, in any country, who are in a situation such as this and shares her inner most fear of being raped in a jail in Mexico or anywhere. She had every right to fear being raped.

Gretchen, if ya ever come on these boards again, email me, I would love to see your art and buy you lunch! Stay strong, girl!

DENNIS - 10-11-2013 at 04:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
True, but the one thing that is clear is that holding someone incommunicado for 72 hours, without charges, and basic needs, is beyond egregious.


That is not crystal clear, monoamigo. It's no better than purported.
We can't go to war on unsubstantiated facts. The accuser has to clearly point the finger. We can't do that in her absence.

redmesa - 10-11-2013 at 05:01 PM

I think we can all agree that what happened was a cluster F...K and some one died and others were abused for whatever reason. It probably would take a United Nations Human Rights Investigation to find out what happened and who needs to be helped and who needs to be shamed.
Lesson I learned from this is do not freak out...stay calm, back off. Oh that is what I have always done in the presence of guns.

BajaLuna - 10-11-2013 at 05:11 PM

well said, redmesa!
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