Fishing and Spearfishing trip report Nov 2013

How old do you think this one is.....

I'm all for free divers, if that's how they're still called. And all divers that shoot photos are good too. I don't worry about nice fish speared. What does concern me is the inshore netters that clean a rock in one fell swoop. They kill everything. That's just sick and there is nothing being done about it. At least in my area. Here's this mornings rapers

Oh BTW that was a really great report

Im from reality. I am the one that dives and is in the water down here ALL THE TIME. Im the person that gets the contracts to do fish counts for SAGARPA. Im the person that gets the contracts to clean up old nets and poacher debris from CONANP. Im the guy that they collect fish heads from to find out how old stuff is cause the "researchers" cant find the fish. I know how many fish are down there because i can see them. I read the link in order to understand what you were talking about. All I saw as far as their research was that they went diving once a year in a few spots in Loreto. Claiming that Loreto is the only place that they spawn and aggregations are only 30 fish. Thats the lamest research Ive ever heard of. Those research techniques are a joke. Ive seen spawning aggregations of HUNDREDS of fish. Gulf and Leopard grouper. In multiple spots. Year after year. That link states that the grouper population has fallen by 50% starting in 2001. That is simply not the case. Ive dove with them freediving, on a rebreather, and on SCUBA. They bolt at SCUBA bubbles and thats probably the most inaccurate way to survey them.

Also the link states that they are a commercial fish. Thats rubbish. I know hundreds of fishermen and NONE of them target Cabrilla. Netting them is next to impossible and they are only netted as a bycatch. Setting a net in a grouper habitat is a sure way to get your gear in the rocks and loose your set. Then I get called by the govt to come pull the leftovers. All commercial fishermen I know of target pelagic fish.

Yellowtail
Bonita
Sierra.
White Sea Bass
etc.

Long lines for sharks, dorado, and snappers.

Trawlers for shrimp, halibut,and rays.

dont know a single commercial person who targets Grouper. The only way to get grouper commercialy is to illegally harvest them at night with a speargun on a hooka rig.

As a professional guide licensed in Mexico with full insurance, port captain registration, and permits I can assure you that I preach conservation, have a one fish per trip limit on Gulf grouper, a no take policy on Golden Grouper and a strict 5 fish per day limit per customer. I can fully appreciate your thoughts on conservation. So I guess my point is that I feel that Im trying to do my part. And so if ya dont know now ya know....

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ Oh BTW that was a really great report

Thanks!! I hear ya on those inshore net guys

As part of our cleanup work with CONANP we find lots of discarded nets still deployed or half sunk on the bottom, full of dead stuff. I see them in tight to the islands where they are not supposed to be all the time.

It sucks.

Quote:

Originally posted by gonetobaja As a professional guide licensed in Mexico with full insurance, port captain registration, and permits I can assure you that I preach conservation, have a one fish per trip limit on Gulf grouper, a no take policy on Golden Grouper and a strict 5 fish per day limit per customer. I can fully appreciate your thoughts on conservation. So I guess my point is that I feel that Im trying to do my part. And so if ya dont know now ya know....

Joe,

First off I can tell your a man of reason and measured response. I appreciate you not jumping to too many conclusions and name calling. Its a refreshing thing to see.

I would like to disagree with your analogy. Although eloquent it does not apply IMO. Elephant hunters and other hunters of animals that take them for the sole reason of a body part, head, paw, or tooth, that have no interest in the consumption of the animal are not in the category of hunter that I am in. I have no trophies in my house, and eat every bite of every fish that I harvest.

The habitat that we are discussing is the ocean. Its not privately held, and is regulated by the Govt of Mexico. In order to conserve fish stocks, Spearfishing is allowed in Mexico only while breath hold diving, and only with rubber band powered guns. In addition, the legal take for a spearo is half of a hook and like fisherman. Yes its true, while a normal rod an reel sportsman can have 10 fish per day, myself and my customers are only allowed 5. Also a spearfishing is the only method of harvest that provides no by catch or other harmful effects to the environment. There will be no sea lions with TADY 45s in their mouth, their will be no Seabirds with plugs in their face, no other species of fish will be affected during the harvest. I wont accidentally gut hook the wrong fish, or snap off my hook and leave 15 ft of 80lb clear mono dangling over the reef. A spearo has the ability to locate a certain species of fish, at a certain size, make a clear decision that the fish they see is the one they want to harvest and then take it. Of course that is if you are lucky enough to be able to sneak up on one, because things have been trying to eat it alive from the time it was a little fish egg. Me with my fins on is a large and bulky scary thing that makes fish scatter. I spook about 20 for every one I get. Im lucky to get 3 when I go out.

Relating to grouper taking care of their young, Ive never heard of that. Spawning aggregations that I have personally witnessed are not spawning beds. The breeding happens in the open water well off the bottom, and the fertilized eggs are left to drift in the current, with the hatched fish fry to fend for themselves. I see grouper from 4 inches to 50 lbs all the time and have never witnessed a grouper of any sex taking care of its young. This observation is only for the Gulf of California grouper population. I dont have the experience in other places to make an overall assumption. With the eggs and sperm of hundreds of grouper in a spawning aggregation all mixed up and in a current I find it very hard to imagine how a female grouper could locate, identify and collect her eggs, and or young and provide them with any rearing protection.

The UC red list science is good in some areas. Fish age, Length, Age that they are reproductive, all good science based on solid scientific theory and analysis. Constants that can be measured. The fish count however is a joke. A person, any person, comes down to an area once per year and trys to determine how many fish are there? Its like telling how many birds are in your area by coming to a couple of sections of one park, once a year, and looking at birds for an hour or so. Then using that numeric input for extrapolation on the entire state of CA. Its just not accurate or representative of the entire population. The representative sampling of the population is flawed due to the lack of diversity in location sampling. I think science is great, when its done properly. And it is Science and breeding programs that can bring back a species that has been poached almost to extinction. The Totuaba breeding program at the University of Ensenada is a great example of that.


On the issue of Poaching as not being a reason for the dwindling of species, again the location, habitat and ultimate control is different. The issue is the same however. In our area the Totuaba is being poached at an alarming rate. A boat that is out netting up Totuaba because they can get thousands of dollars each is much like an Elephant poacher killing off a herd of elephants in order to sell the truck load of tusks for thousands of dollars. So poaching is a direct cause of widespread reduction in certain types of animals that are desired by the black market trade.

As far as not being a conservationist, I would like to submit to you this photo of a poached Totuaba that I recovered during a recent operation with the Mexican Parks Branch CONANP. It still has the rock in its mouth used to sink the body and hide the evidence.



These are the stray drift nets that were found on the bottom and the interstitial tidal areas during amphibious, and sub surface patrols that I conducted.



I am not involved in enforcement in any way, I am only operating in this capacity in order to clean up the environment in which I make a living.

Among the things I also remove are old lures and tangled bunches of mono thrown into the water. I find plenty of dead birds with fishing hooks in their face. Its with that information that I feel that your assumption that hook and line fishing is somehow more sporting and less harmful to the environment than legal spearfishing to be incorrect.

Poachers are not much for cleaning up their mess, old nets get thrown over the side, broken fuel containers are left on islands or dumped into coves. Much of our cleanup work, although supervised by Govt observers at all times, is voluntary.

Im actually doing something about helping the environment in my area. The fact that Im a licensed, insured, and registered operation that is working directly to remove hazardous items in the form of old nets and poaching debris left behind, proves that not only do I follow the law to the letter, I am a conservationist as well.

The bag limits are there for a reason. The limits in Mexico are more conservative than the USA. Its the poaching actions such as turtle nets, totuaba poaching, and inshore nets, as well as over take of animals commercially that cause the long term demise of the species. Not the recreational spearo or fisherman.

The pressure on endangered species comes from overseas, it is those black markets that drive the price and thus the motivation for people to take animals that are endangered or threatened.

Leopard Grouper, and Gulf grouper are not in that category IMO. But more importantly, its also the opinion of the Mexican Govt who regulates the fishery. As far as the golden grouper, I have no idea why it turns that color, it may have something to do with spawning, or feeding or maybe not. But because I dont know why they turn that color and therefore what damage I may cause by taking one, I dont harvest them. I leave them to the population to serve whatever purpose they are there for. For a person to discount the natural color change as nothing, with no evidence to support it and then harvest it, is not a responsible way to manage your fishery. There are plenty of grouper in the Gulf of California, no reason to harvest one that may play some role in the overall welfare of the species I like to harvest.

The new paved road has done nothing to increase tourism and fishermen. We still have the same amount of trouble getting customers as when the road was dirt. It does however make it easier for PROFEPA to get here and do patrols as well as offering easier access for military units that are now all over. Before it was easy to poach the area because it was so remote, now its harder.


Tonight for dinner Im gonna have some grouper. Because unlike an elephant that ends up a bloody corpse with its tusks hacked off, left to rot in the sun....my hunting ends up looking like this.

Crab and cream cheese stuffed grouper wrapped in bacon, with alfredo sauce, wild mushroom ravioli and sauteed asparagus paired with a nice chardonay....




Cmon Joe, you know that looks good.....

Fish

Thank you Capt.

Quote:

Originally posted by gonetobaja How old do you think this one is.....

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco Quote: Originally posted by gonetobaja How old do you think this one is..... Wow, that's a beauty.

Nice conversation. Thanks.

Wife caught and released this one.

nice color fish

Quote:

Originally posted by gonetobaja Quote: Originally posted by monoloco Quote: Originally posted by gonetobaja How old do you think this one is..... Wow, that's a beauty. Gracias Monoloco...I have to admit its the biggest one Ive ever harvested. All others were under 20kilos. These big guys seem always to be too deep for me to get to, and landing one while freediving can be.....well.....kinda hard. You dont even really see them above 80 ft for most of the year. Winter when it starts to get cold is when they can get up shallow every now and then.

bLACK SEA BASS

I think that they are on the protected list for a Long time..besides most the guys that hook'um with line/hook almost always get "rocked"...I gave up spear fishing long ago...I can shoot a rifle but cant hit anything with a speargun !! I have learned a lot about fish while diving and snorkeling...so cool to act like a fish !! Now ,, BUGS !! that's a nother story !!!

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw I think that they are on the protected list for a Long time..besides most the guys that hook'um with line/hook almost always get "rocked"...I gave up spear fishing long ago...I can shoot a rifle but cant hit anything with a speargun !! I have learned a lot about fish while diving and snorkeling...so cool to act like a fish !! Now ,, BUGS !! that's a nother story !!!

Capt.
The one in the pic is a true Golden Grouper.

the Golden or Yellow Snapper looks like this. Almost the exact same color. I eat those all the time. They come up shallow in the winter. they are so dang good....I think Im gonna go get me 5 as soon as the wind mellows out....whenever that is....

I was wrong about you, gonetobaja. You're a good man. And a reasonable one.

But I still believe that you shouldn't go after those big groupers. Enough said.

Yes, that food does look good, but I'm watching my waistline. Trying to not reach Woody's proportions

I think your assessment of the future of the groupers at the Enchanted Islands is too optimistic. Give the new highway a few years.

You are probably right about groupers having planktonic larvae. You've never seen a female with a large school of young ones next to it's head? Like largemouth bass?

Good day to you sir.

Gotobaja

Please don't hit the Mero, If you have ever swam with them their like giant puppy dogs, no fear and no sport, to their demise on the NOB side.
Gonetobaja, nice pescado senor.

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe I was wrong about you, gonetobaja. You're a good man. And a reasonable one. But I still believe that you shouldn't go after those big groupers. Enough said. Yes, that food does look good, but I'm watching my waistline. Trying to not reach Woody's proportions I think your assessment of the future of the groupers at the Enchanted Islands is too optimistic. Give the new highway a few years. You are probably right about groupers having planktonic larvae. You've never seen a female with a large school of young ones next to it's head? Like largemouth bass? Good day to you sir.

huh

Capt.

The fish that was caught and released by Gatoloco was a Golden Grouper. It has the fine scales and is a leopard grouper that looks like a glowing banana. The one I am holding up on the left next to the grouper is a Golden or Yellow Snapper. The scales much larger, the head far more pointed. Also it has the typical snapper like teeth in the front. Although underwater they are a brilliant orange/yellow and are almost the same color as the golden grouper. In my area they are found in the winter in heavy rock formations. I get them to around 12 lbs.

Yellow Snapper.
Its a favorite target for my kids.


and my customers





I dont have any pics of golden grouper. That one Gatoloco let go was a golden grouper for sure. Its good luck to leave them alone.....and its BAD luck to kill one. Another reason I dont allow them to be taken on my boat. Its not a logical reason, maybe not even sane, but I never claimed to be either.....

hard to catch fish

I was talking "chino miro" aka clown fish...maybe a lb or two at best...wire leader,, no weight and toss out part of a crab..within seconds any thing strang..Hook set.. then you have to wait up to a minute and then yank...these lil buggers have Pic fins that are solid musle and jam them selfs in the crevices and you think you snagged..not so..and im talking on the rocks at your feet in the wash..one of the best lil fish for eating imo...better than trigger or sheephead and that's hard to beat...Has anyone here caght one ????? K&T

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw I was talking "chino miro" aka clown fish...maybe a lb or two at best...wire leader,, no weight and toss out part of a crab..within seconds any thing strang..Hook set.. then you have to wait up to a minute and then yank...these lil buggers have Pic fins that are solid musle and jam them selfs in the crevices and you think you snagged..not so..and im talking on the rocks at your feet in the wash..one of the best lil fish for eating imo...better than trigger or sheephead and that's hard to beat...Has anyone here caght one ????? K&T

There Ya go

I hear ya on this one. With divers in the water its just not safe to be driving boats and trolling around them. I bet it sucks to go out there and see that. AT least you have the courtesy to do the right and safe thing. Ive seen boats argue with each other over the same rock or kelp paddy for that matter so I wouldnt say that all rod and reel fishermen share your sharing attitude.

Its a trade off. In a boat your dry and warm, can drink some coffee or beer, listen to the radio, and cover lots of miles trolling. With freedive spearfishing you have to be in the water, fighting the current, being cold, getting stung in the face by jellyfish, and hope you see a fish close enough, that is the right kind to harvest.

I compare it to the morning commute. People in cars get to be warm, listen to the radio, and sip coffee. The people that ride motorcycles can cut the lane and get to work faster. It makes the car drivers upset sometimes, but the motorcycle rider has to sacrifice comfort for a better chance at getting to work faster. He dosent get to drink coffee or be warm or relax. So its a trade off. I suppose those that are willing to get in the water have a more uncomfortable, harder time getting fish than the person in the boat. But that is the choice of the individual. If my dive boat pulls up to a rock and its got lots of boats already there, I leave. If a diver gets in the water in that circumstance then they are the ones that are being dicks.

Fortunately for me, I never see people on my spots.


I think you should go out and get some gear and become one of us.....

Come to the dark side.......

Quote: Originally posted by dizzyspots

found Dale over on FB...still running a boat and charter..launches at Papa's and still has the castle in Puertecitos