BajaNomad

Rumors of my demise exaggerated

Iflyfish - 11-22-2013 at 03:44 PM

I have not been on Nomads for a while. Just returned from extensive stay in Panama. Very involved in two Gender related projects that are filling my time pretty well. I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate my BajaNomad amigos and all the great discussions and personal help and support that I have received. Life is good in the slooow lane!

Iflyfishconmibajaamigos

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 03:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
I have not been on Nomads for a while. Just returned from extensive stay in Panama. Very involved in two Gender related projects that are filling my time pretty well. I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate my BajaNomad amigos and all the great discussions and personal help and support that I have received. Life is good in the slooow lane!

Iflyfishconmibajaamigos



Good to see you here again, Rick. Do we call you Rickolena now?
Fine by me. :saint:

Iflyfish - 11-22-2013 at 04:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
I have not been on Nomads for a while. Just returned from extensive stay in Panama. Very involved in two Gender related projects that are filling my time pretty well. I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate my BajaNomad amigos and all the great discussions and personal help and support that I have received. Life is good in the slooow lane!

Iflyfishconmibajaamigos



Good to see you here again, Rick. Do we call you Rickolena now?
Fine by me. :saint:


I have not changed my Gender I have however learned to appreciate the Complexity of Gender. I have not had to have any courage to claim my gender. This is not the case for millions of people who were born different than myself. I admire the fortitude that it takes to be different than others in such a fundamental way.

I have been in the Mental Health field for 45 years now where I have worked with countless numbers of these people and their families.

I am doing public presentations related to the Complexity of Gender as well as directly helping LBGTQ people, their families and people who care about them. I explore the complex Language of Gender, the Biology of Gender and Gender in Adolescence.

Anyone interested in hosting a presentation on the Complexity of Gender can U2U me and we can make arrangements.

Iflyfishconmilbgtqamigos

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 04:37 PM

OK.....so I guess Rickolenabonita is out...at least for now.

Good to see you back anyway.

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 04:52 PM

Hey Rick.....have you ever considered a RuPaul laboratory...or maybe a field trip?
I'll bet this would engender [whoops...close...huh] a lively discussion here.

You should have been here a few days ago when we discussed understanding, and crap like that when it's shoved down peoples throats. [oooops....another off-color reference]

Anyway...I look forward to your future input.[Ohh golly...there I go again. Forgive me my sins]

motoged - 11-22-2013 at 04:54 PM

Welcome back. Your area of interest and activity is certainly an important one....for those "directly" involved, and those who will benefit from a better understanding of such issues and the challenges and struggles involved.


From Wikipedia:

Sex and gender distinction:

The distinction between sex and gender distinguishes sex, the biological makeup of an individual's reproductive anatomy or secondary sex characteristics, from gender, an individual's lifestyle (often culturally learned) or personal identification of one's own gender (gender identity).[1][2] This distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions and others do not."

Some folks here would likely benefit from developing a deeper understanding of the topic...as you may see ....some folks just don't have a clue....but lots of opinions.

[Edited on 11-22-2013 by motoged]

[Edited on 11-22-2013 by motoged]

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 05:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged

The distinction between sex and gender distinguishes sex,



Sometimes, I'm overwhelmed by profundity. Is this one of those times?
Maybe not. :lol::lol:

Ateo - 11-22-2013 at 05:11 PM

I missed you on here amigo. Glad you are continuing in your efforts to help your fellow humans. It's a tough road being alive. Some of us have it easier than others. I'm interested in hearing what you been up to down in Panama.

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged


Some folks here would likely benefit from developing a deeper understanding of the topic...



Give me one practical reason why? So they would agree with you?

I'm glad you reopened this conflict of interest. I do have things I haven't expressed all of my feelings as yet.
Lots more to say.....hit the like button and I'll give you an earful.

Osprey - 11-22-2013 at 05:13 PM

Welcome back Rick. Need you here where we can learn more. My folks told me that as soon as I could walk I was dressing up in little suits like a lawyer. I've mostly grown out of it down here in the Sur cause of the heat.

Was that genes or something I saw, felt, smelt?

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 05:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey

Was that genes or something I saw, felt, smelt?



Maybe it was Gene, your first gym mentor.
Are you still wearing running shoes that curl up at the toes?

Ateo - 11-22-2013 at 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by motoged


Some folks here would likely benefit from developing a deeper understanding of the topic...



Give me one practical reason why? So they would agree with you?

I'm glad you reopened this conflict of interest. I do have things I haven't expressed all of my feelings as yet.
Lots more to say.....hit the like button and I'll give you an earful.


A practical reason?

So they don't continue to misunderstand their fellow humans and write hurtful things on forums. Calling people you don't understand "Fruits, Fairies, and Pool Boys" denigrates them. People kill themselves after being belittled by friends, family, and the general public. People read what you write. Do you want to bum them out or make them happy? Life's short, and shorter even for some of us. That's my practical reason -- to not bum people out. You asked. That's my answer.

Osprey - 11-22-2013 at 05:35 PM

D, I don't have running shoes. I have skipping shoes but I don't wear them when I fish. I don't want to look funny out there. It's no big deal, I'm comfortable with who we are most of the time.

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 05:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo
So they don't continue to misunderstand their fellow humans and write hurtful things on forums.



BS...This is a Baja forum, not a sexual cesspool nursery school.



Quote:
Calling people you don't understand "Fruits, Fairies, and Pool Boys" denigrates them.



More BS. That's how some of them address each other. Are they going to dictate what I say when it's what they say? Is the "N" word exclusivity seeping into the fag fairy poolboy community?
I'll say what I want to say.



Quote:

People kill themselves after being belittled by friends, family, and the general public.



Don't blame me for their frailties. Perhaps they should grow a pair before they decide to go against mainstream society.


Quote:
People read what you write. Do you want to bum them out or make them happy?




Couldn't care less, or any more than they care about me....which is zero.




Quote:
Life's short, and shorter even for some of us. That's my practical reason -- to not bum people out. You asked. That's my answer.



You answered nothing and no one but yourself.



.

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by DENNIS]

motoged - 11-22-2013 at 06:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
....Couldn't care less, or any more than they care about me....which is zero.....[Edited on 11-23-2013 by DENNIS]


Dennis,
You cranky hateful ol' fart....not a very nice "welcome back" for someone.

Clearly you have VERY little caring for others....and that makes me wonder if you care for yourself ( I imagine your reply will be something about what a good relationship you think you have with yourself...)

I don't know if you personally know Iflyfish (I don't know if that person is male or female....or on the spectrum in between [said respectfully Iflyfish]), but do you care if he/she is offended by your responses?

Funny is one thing....rude and hateful hostility is another.

Take a good look inside, pal....find out what's eating your soul and expel it.....just not here....your putrefaction has stunk the place up enough.

:light:

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 06:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged

I don't know if you personally know Iflyfish (I don't know if that person is male or female....


His name is Rick....as mentioned. What does that tell you except that your extrapolation of detail is in need of repair.

motoged - 11-22-2013 at 06:40 PM

No, D Head....your interpolation is.:lol::lol:

And you have yet to answer my question....or is that too complicated for you shriveling brain (dementia is a b-tch, eh?!)

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by motoged]

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 06:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
but do you care if he/she is offended by your responses?




No.




Quote:
Originally posted by motoged

Funny is one thing....rude and hateful hostility is another.



Point out "rude and hateful. Qualify your renditions or quit calling me nasty names. You're beginning to hurt my feelings.
========================================



Now...answer mine. Point them out specifically.

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by DENNIS]

wessongroup - 11-22-2013 at 06:45 PM

SF 15+ ... :lol::lol:

Here's ME in my "skipping shoes" ... was a rough night after the "parade" :biggrin:




Dennis is just out of the picture ... to the left

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by wessongroup]

Timo1 - 11-22-2013 at 06:47 PM

Smelt ???

I CAUGHT A COUPLE SMELT THIS MORNING

s0RRY CAPS...what's going on with this laptop ??

DJL - 11-22-2013 at 06:54 PM

Welcome back !!!

We sooooo need to talk flies , sometime -

D.~:D

motoged - 11-22-2013 at 08:00 PM

Sometimes a conversation is worth while if it displays an ability to reason.

And sometimes it doesn't.


unreasonable

adjective: unreasonable

1.
not guided by or based on good sense.
"she knew she was being unreasonable, but she resented his domesticity"
synonyms: uncooperative, obstructive, unhelpful, disobliging, unaccommodating, troublesome, awkward, contrary, difficult, tiresome, annoying, vexatious;
obstinate, obdurate, wilful, headstrong, pig-headed, bull-headed, intractable, intransigent, inflexible, mulish;
irrational, illogical, opinionated, biased, prejudiced, intolerant, blinkered
"an unreasonable old woman"
unacceptable, preposterous, outrageous, ludicrous, absurd, senseless, nonsensical, irrational, illogical;
excessive, immoderate, extreme, disproportionate, undue, inordinate, exorbitant, extortionate, extravagant, intolerable, unconscionable;
unnecessary, unjustified, unwarranted, uncalled for;
informalover the top, OTT, steep
"the bill placed unreasonable demands on industry"
beyond the limits of acceptability or fairness.
"an unreasonable request"

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by motoged]

DENNIS - 11-22-2013 at 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Sometimes a conversation is worth while if it displays an ability to reason.



Glad to see you begin the self-purging process. Perhaps we can look forward to a meaningful dialog when your cleanse is complete.

Ateo - 11-22-2013 at 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged

Funny is one thing....rude and hateful hostility is another.


Exactly.

fishbuck - 11-22-2013 at 08:27 PM

So he's talking about the gender of the fish he caught while in Panama... right?;)

motoged - 11-22-2013 at 08:33 PM

Iflyfish,
I am sorry to have messed with your return note....

Panama gets good reviews....I am not a fisherman, so can't talk about that....

However up here in Kamloops we are famous for trout....even appear to have a type with that name on it....pink flesh and yummy.





http://www.bcadventure.com/ronnewman/kamloops.phtml

Kgryfon - 11-22-2013 at 09:20 PM

Welcome back, Iflyfish!

Kgryfon - 11-22-2013 at 09:26 PM

Dennis, no one is shoving this down your throat as you keep saying. You are actively seeking out posts that mention LBGTQ related topics and then shoving your view down everyone's throats, blowing them up with your vitriol. If you don't like it, why don't you just skip the post and move on?

And go ahead, throw a bunch of silly insults at me now per your standard operating procedure.

Skipjack Joe - 11-22-2013 at 09:28 PM

A couple of remarks:

A. Iflyfish is very familiar with kamloops trout.

B. Regarding that Dennis is not a caring man. This may be a good time to remember thaw the contributed more for both Talkbaja when he was assaulted and Sally's daughter during her fight against cancer than almost everyone here. Certainly the most when considering his income. So that's not a good reason.

As for me. I'm still lost with 'the complexity of gender'.

Iflyfish - 11-23-2013 at 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
A couple of remarks:

A. Iflyfish is very familiar with kamloops trout.

B. Regarding that Dennis is not a caring man. This may be a good time to remember thaw the contributed more for both Talkbaja when he was assaulted and Sally's daughter during her fight against cancer than almost everyone here. Certainly the most when considering his income. So that's not a good reason.

As for me. I'm still lost with 'the complexity of gender'.


I have had the privilege of being towed in my pontoon boat by a 10# Kamloops trout. Nice pic above of what one can find in BC. Beautiful fish!

I enjoyed Panama a lot. This was my second trip. Panama is fascinating in that one can easily experience cosmopolitan urban living, quality high elevation jungle living and both Atlantic and Pacific environs. I love the mix of Latin and Caribbean cultures.

The fishing in Panama can be spectacular, a YouTube search will get you into it. I fly-fished for Peac-ck Bass with poppers and that was a blast!! World class salt water species are to be found off both coasts.

The cuisine of Panama is not as rich as Mexico with its 56 distinct Languages/Cultures and it's diverse geography engendering a multifaceted cuisine.

I posted this thread to let my fellow Nomads know that I was still alive and doing well. I had a request to post from a Nomad friend who told me that someone was concerned because they have not seen me post on this site, a site I have been very engaged with. I wanted to let people know what I was up to and that I am ok.

As to the content of my work, it is interesting and informative to note how even the mention of my work with gender provokes vitriolic homophobic rhetoric and a personal questioning of my gender. I admire this Nomad for putting out loud what many feel inside and publicly demonstrate by their behavior toward LBGTQ people. In this way I believe that this dialogue is informative.

This is the gauntlet that LBGTQ people have to run in their lives. It is not one that I have had to run since I identify myself as Heterosexual or Cissexual and Cisgender. I have not had to deal, until now, with people or myself questioning my gender. I find it offensive, though I would be proud to be called LBGTQ if I were of those genders.

I do not have to be black to support Civil Rights. I do not have to be female to support equal rights for women. I do not have to be Mexican to support immigration reform. I do not have to be LBGTQ to support their civil rights.

I want to be clear that I support efforts to understand and support LBGTQ people and their courageous efforts toward the development of their full civil rights and legitimate identities. I want also to be clear that I am available to present to any group that is interested what I have learned about the Language and Biology of Gender. I am engaged in Public Education to help people clarify what to most is a very confusing and perplexing issue.

I am a Social Worker who has made a career of helping to alleviate suffering. I have been in this field for over 45 years. I believe that it is important for people to understand the Complexity of all of our Genders and to address the crisis faced by LBGTQ youth.

30-40% Tried Suicide
20-40% Homeless Youth
28% Drop High School
26% Evicted from Home
34% Report Abuse
stats from Phoenix PFLAG

One can argue statistics but my reading of the literature tells me that these stats are indicative of the scope of the problem.

Salud

Iflyfishconminomadamigos

motoged - 11-23-2013 at 12:20 PM

Idon'tflyfishbutIridemotosallaroundgreatfishinglakesinBC could be my new Nomad handle, but I would need to have a snooze after each entry :biggrin:

I look forward to a trip to Panama in a few years by moto and enjoy the notion of that multicultural blend...

I am also a social worker by education and a therapist by avocation....as it is a vehicle for my journey on learning how to be a human being. Maybe if I took up flyfishing I could work on my impatience that pops up on occasion :light: ;D.

Your area of interest is challenging enough with the specific community itself, never mind negotiating those threatened by it.

Thank you for doing such important work.

Anytime you are up this way again to have a trout troll you around a lake, I would welcome you and maybe learn a thing or three :cool:

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by motoged]

Iflyfish - 11-23-2013 at 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Idon'tflyfishbutIridemotosallaroundgreatfishinglakesinBC could be my new Nomad handle, but I would need to have a snooze after each entry :biggrin:

I look forward to a trip to Panama in a few years by moto and enjoy the notion of that multicultural blend...

I am also a social worker by education and a therapist by avocation....as it is a vehicle for my journey on learning how to be a human being. Maybe if I took up flyfishing I could work on my impatience that pops up on occasion :light: ;D.

Your area of interest is challenging enough with the specific community itself, never mind negotiating those threatened by it.

Thank you for doing such important work.

Anytime you are up this way again to have a trout troll you around a lake, I would welcome you and maybe learn a thing or three :cool:

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by motoged]


Thanks for the kind invitation, one that I may take you up on. I love the Kamloops area, "Fish a Lake a Day for as Long as you Stay" is the phrase I associate with this lovely community.

Iflyfisheh?!

Pompano - 11-23-2013 at 01:13 PM

Welcome back from Panama, a favored place for me, too...although a mite humid in certain locales.

Here's an Up North fishing invitation, Rick.

Casting is free-style. A book & pillow would be handy.


vgabndo - 11-23-2013 at 01:15 PM

Hey Rick, I knew you were OK. I got your FB posting but hadn't got around to responding. I am engineering my move to BA, and my shoe-string budget is beating me like like a sadist!

My men's group, the ManKind Project is as inclusive as any I know and our leadership exhibits the diversity that is men's sexuality. I am proud that they have had the guts to recognize how nature plays tricks with gender, and that the compassionate way to help men find the answers they seek, is to first teach honor, commitment, and accountability, then give men a place to be themselves. We are now initiating men into the Project who have had a vagina all their lives.

DENNIS, I see you as the guy in the red jacket in this film made by Irish school boys. I wouldn't want to be that young man, and I sure wouldn't want anyone to think, today, that I still held such phobias.
I respect a lot about you. Not this.

http://www.upworthy.com/the-simple-beautiful-gesture-that-ca...

DENNIS - 11-23-2013 at 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo

I respect a lot about you. Not this.



Not what? Specifically, not what?
I didn't look at whatever it is you linked here. I'm not interested in comparisons, or whatever it's supposed to be.
I'll stand behind everything I say and own it, so forget your conjecture, suppositions and innuendo, and just show me, unequivocally, what it is you take issue with!!

I'm really gettin' sick and tired of you, amongst others here, convicting me without being able to give verified reason.
Put up...or shut up.




.

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by DENNIS]

motoged - 11-23-2013 at 01:43 PM

Dennis,
You have not been convicted by anyone but yourself. Your opinions expressed are your :"convictions" that you proudly stand behind/in front of. It is not a legal issue but, rather, is one of beliefs:


conviction
kənˈvɪkʃ(ə;)n/

noun: conviction; plural noun: convictions

1. a formal declaration by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law that someone is guilty of a criminal offence.
"she had a previous conviction for a similar offence"
synonyms: declaration/pronouncement of guilt, sentence, judgement More
"she will appeal against her conviction"
antonyms: acquittal

2. a firmly held belief or opinion.
"she takes pride in stating her political convictions"
synonyms: belief, opinion, view, thought, persuasion, idea, position, stance;
(article of) faith, credo, creed, tenet, dogma
"his deeply held political and religious convictions"
the quality of showing that one is firmly convinced of what one believes or says.
"she had been speaking for some five minutes with force and conviction"
synonyms: certainty, certitude, assurance, confidence, sureness, positiveness; More
no shadow of a doubt
"she spoke with conviction"
antonyms: uncertainty, doubt


You assert your entitlement to voice your opinions and have clearly presented them as hateful judgements against others. You have ridiculed, insulted, and proudly attacked those of a different "persuasion" than folks of your ilk. The proof you seek is in your posts....just read them.

Iflyfish - 11-23-2013 at 01:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano
Welcome back from Panama, a favored place for me, too...although a mite humid in certain locales.

Here's an Up North fishing invitation, Rick.

Casting is free-style. A book & pillow would be handy.



I love that pic, pothole fishing! Love it. Glad to see you are still onboard! Panama can be very hot and humid, have to choose the best time of year. When it is not too hot/humid it is wonderful!

Iflyfishconmipanamanianamigos

Iflyfish - 11-23-2013 at 02:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Hey Rick, I knew you were OK. I got your FB posting but hadn't got around to responding. I am engineering my move to BA, and my shoe-string budget is beating me like like a sadist!

My men's group, the ManKind Project is as inclusive as any I know and our leadership exhibits the diversity that is men's sexuality. I am proud that they have had the guts to recognize how nature plays tricks with gender, and that the compassionate way to help men find the answers they seek, is to first teach honor, commitment, and accountability, then give men a place to be themselves. We are now initiating men into the Project who have had a vagina all their lives.

DENNIS, I see you as the guy in the red jacket in this film made by Irish school boys. I wouldn't want to be that young man, and I sure wouldn't want anyone to think, today, that I still held such phobias.
I respect a lot about you. Not this.

http://www.upworthy.com/the-simple-beautiful-gesture-that-ca...


Wonderful video amigo! Thank you very much for sharing this and about how your men's group is now initiating men of GBQ men as we;; as men with ambiguous sex organs ....we all exist on a continuum of genes, sex and hormones. The first 4 weeks of our life we are ALL female. Differentiation of our brain and the morphing of our tissues that result in our internal and external sex organs occur after this. Stereotypical Male and Female brains are anatomically different. There is however a great deal of differentiation based upon the timing of androgenization.

It is fear of difference that underlies xenophobia, racism and homophobia. The more we know that less likely we are to be caught in these self limiting paradigms.

I understand homophobia, it's really, really hard to get our heads around how others can be so seemingly different than ourselves.

I am pleased and excited to hear about your pending move to BA, what a gift you are to that community and the community that you are leaving!! I look forward to more time with you amigo!

Iflyfishconmiasuncionamigos

motoged - 11-23-2013 at 02:17 PM

Roger,
Are you bobbing for fish, muskrats, or a moose out there? ;D

And what are you using for bait? Mosquitoes?



Pompano - 11-23-2013 at 02:40 PM

Moose!...MOOSE? We only use them for the HUGE WALLEYES up here.

BajaRat - 11-23-2013 at 02:51 PM

Senor Rick ! Que Paso my good friend ! We can get back on topic shortly ...... But how bout a couple good shots of Panama :bounce:
Hope we can all get together sooner than later

motoged - 11-23-2013 at 02:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano
Moose!...MOOSE? We only use them for the HUGE WALLEYES up here.


:lol::lol::lol:

Timo1 - 11-23-2013 at 02:57 PM

Moto

If you want big fish on a fly , then get on up to scuitto lake and troll a big black fly

RAINBOWS TO 20 POUNDS i'VE HEARD (oops)

I have only seen a 12 pounder from there

Fish to the left of the island in the bay

DENNIS - 11-23-2013 at 03:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Dennis,
You have not been convicted by anyone but yourself. Your opinions expressed are your :"convictions" that you proudly stand behind/in front of. It is not a legal issue but, rather, is one of beliefs:





Still, nothing from the PC prosecutors.
Gee...I don't believe just like you, so I'm suffering a defect of which you won't/can't explain?
Why don't you lay your cards on the table so we all can see them and quit tossing around your red herrings to make readers stray from the point.
Again.....point out my errors of fact...not your fiction that you think the world should adhere to.

WHERE WAS I WRONG???

If my delivery seemed indelicate, that should be your prosecutorial stance, but don't paint me as a villain just because it doesn't coincide with your world view.

You, Jon and Perry are being hatchetmen for the counter culture, insisting it should be mainstream....for no other reason, in my opinion, that it's the PC thing to do.
I'm not quite ready for that degree of acquiescence solely because I'm told to be by the gay community.....or you....or anyone else.


Anyway.....show me...........don't scold me, at least not without a sassy spanking. :lol:

motoged - 11-23-2013 at 03:18 PM

Timo,
I have been along it's banks up to my arse in flooded road on the bike...

I used to fish when I was a kid in Manitoba, but haven't got back to it since I discovered motos :tumble:





I will start the campfire and melt some butter in the pan for all that trout you bring ashore :biggrin:

Ateo - 11-23-2013 at 03:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS


You, Jon and Perry are being hatchet men for the counter culture, insisting it should be mainstream....for no other reason, in my opinion, that it's the PC thing to do.




I'm not insisting that you become gay Dennis or that being gay should be mainstream. It's not a counter culture -- it's part of human culture since the beginning of our evolution as a species. I'm not asking you to be PC. Being PC just to be PC is bull in my book. I'm asking you to see that your language here affects people. Do you want to hurt people? I'm asking you to have some compassion for other human beings.

If you had a gay kid and he was bullied at school, how would that make you feel? Wouldn't you want to stand up for him/her? I know, your issue lies with this somehow being unnatural and gays not being able to procreate, so seeing this differently is complicated.

If there was something different about you and people harassed you for it, all your life, to the point of physical violence, wouldn't you hope for some understanding and empathy from others? I would stand up for you.

DENNIS - 11-23-2013 at 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo

I'm not insisting that you become gay Dennis



Ohhh...well, that's different. I thought I was being seduced. Gee....what a relief. Should I cancel my order for assless chaps?



.

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by DENNIS]

Ateo - 11-23-2013 at 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo

I'm not insisting that you become gay Dennis



Ohhh...well, that's different. I thought I was being seduced. Gee....what a relief. Should I cancel my order for assless chaps?



.

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by DENNIS]


Keep those things on backorder man. You never know when you may need assless chaps.

DENNIS - 11-23-2013 at 04:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo




Keep those things on backorder man. You never know when you may need assless chaps.



I didn't realize they were made for the wearer's convenience so much as the wearer's best butty. :lol:
WaddooI know? I'm a heartless gay hater. :lol:



.

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by DENNIS]

fishbuck - 11-23-2013 at 05:23 PM

Ok, seems like we're making progress here. Anyone else having anything to add to today's group session?

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo




Keep those things on backorder man. You never know when you may need assless chaps.



I didn't realize they were made for the wearer's convenience so much as the wearer's best butty. :lol:
WaddooI know? I'm a heartless gay hater. :lol:



.

[Edited on 11-23-2013 by DENNIS]

monoloco - 11-23-2013 at 05:23 PM

I'll be glad when the LGBT's have the right to be just as miserable in their relationships as heterosexuals, then maybe we won't have to hear about it constantly, plus, it will give a needed boost to the legal profession.

DENNIS - 11-23-2013 at 06:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ateo

I'm not asking you to be PC. Being PC just to be PC is bull in my book. I'm asking you to see that your language here affects people. Do you want to hurt people? I'm asking you to have some compassion for other human beings.





Soooo...it's not what I said, but the way that I said it. Do your amigos in loving arms here...Sr.Ged and Perry agree with this?
Am I no more than inarticulate......or am I despicable for my core feelings....as they have suggested?

I await their most studied replies.....if capable.
I doubt so. They never had a case to begin with.

vgabndo - 11-23-2013 at 06:42 PM

Dennis, I don't want to scold you, and it certainly isn't my job to school you, but I care enough about you to wish that your life was as full as it could be. I was brought-up homophobic and remained that way for the majority of my life. I married a woman, later in life, who was the most color and gender blind person I'd ever known. She introduced me to people, and later I got into men's work which brought me into contact with a wider range of people. I treasure my gay friends and they add a lot to my life. I can't imagine wasting any energy at all being negative about them when they are such a positive influence to me and in my community. I have a transgender friend who was for years a logger in the woods. She lives in a town of 3500 people where everyone remembers him as a ski shop owner. She has more huevos than any man I know.

DENNIS - 11-23-2013 at 07:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Dennis, I don't want to scold you, and it certainly isn't my job to school you, but I care enough about you to wish that your life was as full as it could be. I was brought-up homophobic and remained that way for the majority of my life. I married a woman, later in life, who was the most color and gender blind person I'd ever known. She introduced me to people, and later I got into men's work which brought me into contact with a wider range of people. I treasure my gay friends and they add a lot to my life. I can't imagine wasting any energy at all being negative about them when they are such a positive influence to me and in my community. I have a transgender friend who was for years a logger in the woods. She lives in a town of 3500 people where everyone remembers him as a ski shop owner. She has more huevos than any man I know.



Sooo....I guess all of this means you have nothing to say as to my sins and transgressions in this thread. You can't say what it is about my posts that prompted you to castigate me for my opinions. [Ateo can't either]
You had no reason, other than it was the popular thing to do at the moment. Protecting the gays, who demand your loyalty, is paramount to you, more so than protecting your friends.

Diseffinggusting.

Maybe they'll send you a rainbow sticker for your kitchen window.

vgabndo - 11-24-2013 at 07:16 AM

"You can't say what it is about my posts that prompted you to castigate me for my opinions. [Ateo can't either]
You had no reason, other than it was the popular thing to do at the moment. Protecting the gays, who demand your loyalty, is paramount to you, more so than protecting your friends."

You prompted me to respond in the same way the comments of any angry, frightened, old homophobic bully would provoke me. Since using those terms is no good way to have a civil discourse, I withheld them until I read the BS about your castigation. I don't have gay friends because it is popular at the moment. I have gay friends because I am finally man enough to deserve their friendship. My gay friends demand NOTHING from me than that I treat them as the friends they are. If your friends must demand your loyalty perhaps they need protection. I bless all my friends, and would be proud to protect them, in some way, if I could. None of them, gay or straight, demands my loyalty. If they have it, they've earned it. We've earned it. I have acquaintances whom I disrespect, no one I disrespect is my friend. Does that help to clear-up any of this nonsense? "Protecting the gays, who demand your loyalty, is paramount to you, more so than protecting your friends."

I also recognize that homophobia, like all phobias, is a disorder, and some folks absolutely freak out if they accidentally walk into a spider's web.

JCHatedFIGS_zps24fb942e.jpg - 14kB

Ateo - 11-24-2013 at 07:48 AM

vgabndo: 7
Dennis: 0

He's throwing a no hitter.

Bottom of the ninth coming up....

EnsenadaDr - 11-24-2013 at 08:37 AM

There is this guy in Punta Banda. He is known to everyone as he works in a local establishment and has worked in many places over the last few years in Punta Banda. Let's call him Sammy (not his real name). He is very flamboyant to say the least. He has also told me personally that he "swings both ways". He is very vocal and tells many off color jokes but is harmless. He can act extremely effeminate at times. About 2 years ago, a new person moved into Punta Banda and went on the PBBB about how he felt this guy was obnoxious and mentioned he was "gay" in his actions and gave the establishment a bad name, etc. etc. Dennis knew "Sammy" through his patronizing the establishments for more than a few years. Dennis came to Sammy's rescue after the new resident criticized and berated "Sammy" unmercifully on the PBBB. I'm not sure why Dennis is portraying this image on this thread as somewhat anti-gay. Dennis helps out many people. Maybe he is in a super bad mood right now because of the holidays.

BajaRat - 11-24-2013 at 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I'm not sure why Dennis is portraying this image on this thread as somewhat anti-gay. Dennis helps out many people. Maybe he is in a super bad mood right now because of the holidays.



Yea............ Hitler used to get that way around the holidays too.

DianaT - 11-24-2013 at 09:38 AM

Since I knew you were alive and well and enjoying life, I did not respond to this thread. I just now read it, and still can't figure out how it morphed. Ni modo.

Someone along the line suggested that you post some of your Panama pictures, and I agree. Your pictures and stories with your pictures are wonderful! Think about posting a non-Baja Trip Report, maybe, if you want, if you have time, if you think it is a good idea, or maybe not. :biggrin:

Iflyfish - 11-24-2013 at 09:43 AM

I started this thread to let my friends know that I am alive and well. I mentioned that I am involved in learning about and sharing with others what I am learning about the Complexity of Gender. I have traveled widely throughout Mexico over the past 50 years and have experienced first hand it's wonderful diversity of peoples and cultures.

The Anglo/Saxon, Puritanical culture of the USofA has historically recognized only two genders, masculine and feminine. Other cultures recognize three or more.

It is of interest that Native Americans of North America, before the conquest, had revered people in their cultures who were LBGTQ, these people were called Two-Spirit or berdaches and were seen as excellent Mediators and Shaman.

I would like to share with you a group of Mexicans living in the State of Oaxaca who cherish the beloved Muxes of Juchitán, Oaxaca, Mexico.

http://www.shaulschwarz.com/#/photography/muxe/muxeweb07a

http://www.uky.edu/~tmute2/mexico/Mex%20PDFs/stephan-gender-...


IflyfishconmiMuxesamigas

[Edited on 11-24-2013 by Iflyfish]

[Edited on 11-24-2013 by Iflyfish]
edited in an attempt to get the %*$(_)%$ links right. you may need to copy and paste the links.

[Edited on 11-24-2013 by Iflyfish]

BajaRat - 11-24-2013 at 09:49 AM

Pics when you get a chance Rick :yes:
Michelle said you posted beautiful shots on Facebook.
Oh, and did you get a chance to fish on this trip ?

[Edited on 11-24-2013 by BajaRat]

[Edited on 11-24-2013 by BajaRat]

Iflyfish - 11-24-2013 at 10:03 AM

I appreciate the request for pics. Panama is a photographers paradise, wonderful subjects everywhere. Unfortunately I have tried posting pics here in the past without success. Sorry about that.

I did indeed fish this time, I used my 9' 4wt Sage to land Peac-ck Bass on poppers, a blast! They were not of an significant size but I landed around 30-40 each time out.

I fished Lake Gatun which is the man made lake that is the fresh water source of the locks of the Panama Canal.

This trip was primarily Urban, Panama City, with forays out to the mountains for gold panning, to the interior for fishing and to the Atlantic Coast for some Afro/Caribbean culture and beach time.

Iflyfishconmipanamanianamigos

BajaRat - 11-24-2013 at 10:10 AM

Wow that sounds fantastic, did you eat any. Aren't Peac-ck Bass in the Amazon as well

Iflyfish - 11-24-2013 at 10:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaRat
Wow that sounds fantastic, did you eat any. Aren't Peac-ck Bass in the Amazon as well


One of the best eating fish I have ever had. Very light, white flesh, a hint of nut in the finish. Not as firm as Largemouth or Smallmouth Bass, a bit more like flounder or Baja halibut.

I will return.

Iflyfishwithmouthfullofpeac-ckbass

Iflyfish - 11-24-2013 at 10:20 AM

Peac-ck bass are indeed also found in the Amazon.

I fished out of Arenosa as seen in this video. I have a buen amigo named Patcho and can hook you up with someone who will drive you to the lake, provide your lunch etc. If interested U2U me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUf0HWM_fp8

Iflyfisharenosa

EnsenadaDr - 11-24-2013 at 10:31 AM

Talking about the Amazon, can one eat piranhas?
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Peac-ck bass are indeed also found in the Amazon.

I fished out of Arenosa as seen in this video. I have a buen amigo named Patcho and can hook you up with someone who will drive you to the lake, provide your lunch etc. If interested U2U me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUf0HWM_fp8

Iflyfisharenosa

EnsenadaDr - 11-24-2013 at 10:59 AM

Just as we have compassion for the other sexual preferences such as LGBT, we also must remember that Dennis has his own demons to deal with and has been diagnosed with Bipolar disorder that he has freely admitted here on this board. Since I have seen him be supportive of gays, one can speculate that because of the holidays, Dennis is going through something we can only read about in textbooks. Just as he can be up and positive, funny and witty, he has his dark days and it may come across as mean and spiteful but it can be depression and darkness. We all have up and down days but a person with bipolar disorder has extreme lows and extreme highs. And so, as we support Dennis here and enjoy his entertainment on his "good" days, we need to understand that he has very "bad" days as well.
Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Dennis,
You have not been convicted by anyone but yourself. Your opinions expressed are your :"convictions" that you proudly stand behind/in front of. It is not a legal issue but, rather, is one of beliefs:


conviction
kənˈvɪkʃ(ə;)n/

noun: conviction; plural noun: convictions

1. a formal declaration by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law that someone is guilty of a criminal offence.
"she had a previous conviction for a similar offence"
synonyms: declaration/pronouncement of guilt, sentence, judgement More
"she will appeal against her conviction"
antonyms: acquittal

2. a firmly held belief or opinion.
"she takes pride in stating her political convictions"
synonyms: belief, opinion, view, thought, persuasion, idea, position, stance;
(article of) faith, credo, creed, tenet, dogma
"his deeply held political and religious convictions"
the quality of showing that one is firmly convinced of what one believes or says.
"she had been speaking for some five minutes with force and conviction"
synonyms: certainty, certitude, assurance, confidence, sureness, positiveness; More
no shadow of a doubt
"she spoke with conviction"
antonyms: uncertainty, doubt


You assert your entitlement to voice your opinions and have clearly presented them as hateful judgements against others. You have ridiculed, insulted, and proudly attacked those of a different "persuasion" than folks of your ilk. The proof you seek is in your posts....just read them.

BajaBlanca - 11-24-2013 at 12:01 PM

Piranhas are not eaten ,as far as I know.

Welcome back Rick! If you send me pics, I will happily post them for you!

Iflyfish - 11-24-2013 at 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Just as we have compassion for the other sexual preferences such as LGBT, we also must remember that Dennis has his own demons to deal with and has been diagnosed with Bipolar disorder that he has freely admitted here on this board. Since I have seen him be supportive of gays, one can speculate that because of the holidays, Dennis is going through something we can only read about in textbooks. Just as he can be up and positive, funny and witty, he has his dark days and it may come across as mean and spiteful but it can be depression and darkness. We all have up and down days but a person with bipolar disorder has extreme lows and extreme highs. And so, as we support Dennis here and enjoy his entertainment on his "good" days, we need to understand that he has very "bad" days as well.
Quote:
Originally posted by motoged
Dennis,
You have not been convicted by anyone but yourself. Your opinions expressed are your :"convictions" that you proudly stand behind/in front of. It is not a legal issue but, rather, is one of beliefs:

Good Doctor,

I appreciate your sharing with us your knowledge about how mood can affect our experience of the world and our communication with others.

You wrote "Just as we have compassion for the other sexual preferences such as LGBT".

Your comment expresses the very reason why I am engaged in public education about the Complexity of Gender. I appreciate your compassion and believe that we all should have more of that!

You state that LGBT is a "preference". In doing so you demonstrate a lack of perspective that is endemic in the Health, Mental Health and General Public as to the etiology of Gender. In my Professional education and training no one put this together for me either. You are not alone. I am not critical of you, it is just clear to me that, like most of us in the helping professions, we have not been exposed to an integration in our understanding of the biological underpinnings of gender.

The classic Nature/Nurture debate has three basic branches; Cultural/Religious, Psychological and Biological.

Cultural/Religious and Psychological perspectives have had the main stage through out history.

From your medical experience I think that you would agree that human beings are not homogenous. There is tremendous diversity built into our biology. Our skin colors are not the same, we have different pigmentation. Our hormones are not the same, you test for them in certain cases. Our genitals are not all the same, you have seen this with your own eyes. Our internal organs are not all the same, you have also seen this with your own eyes. Our genotypic composition is not the same. We know that there are "male" and "female" brains. We also know that there are large variations in the various structures that make up "male" and "female" brains.

From a Biological perspective the first month of our gestation we are all female. It is only after androgenization by testosterone, the precursors of which are found in the Y chromosome, that our external and internal sex organs and brains differentiate, out of the same tissues, into a spectrum of male/female brains, external and internal sex organs.

I think that the implications of this are significant when discussing Gender. Again I am happy to present in depth on this topic to any group that may have interest in learning more about this fascinating subject.

Iflyfishwithpetridishes

Ateo - 11-24-2013 at 12:45 PM

I wish you all a happy Sun Day.

Iflyfish - 11-24-2013 at 01:19 PM

Thanks Blanca....pics on way....happy Sun Day to you too!

EnsenadaDr - 11-24-2013 at 01:50 PM

Fly Fish, my father was a very macho New Yorker. Yet, working in the restaurant field, he met many gay waiters. And he told me that he felt that being gay was not a choice, it was a biological assignment. I agree with that, if you have read my previous comments, that many factors make the determination of male or female, or a little of both. Everyone also has a sexual "preference", would you agree? I am talking about their psychological sexual desire, when I state preference. I am not saying they can make themselves decide what they want, or "prefer" their sexuality. I agree that many factors make up a person's sexuality. Of course, there probably are cases of abused men and women by the opposite sex that may make them hate anyone of that sex and cause them to be homosexual. But I don't agree with that being the norm. In fact, many gays agonize over coming out of the closet, but cannot bring themselves to change their sexuality to adhere to the "norm" or "heterosexual" lifestyle, nor should they have to. Simply because they are not heterosexual.

Let's all be understanding and have compassion for others that do not follow the "norm", whether it be sexually, mentally or physically. We all have that frightened child inside of us no matter how old we are, and because we are adults we sometimes try to hide it, and in doing so, we come off cruel and hurtful.

Iflyfish - 11-24-2013 at 02:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Fly Fish, my father was a very macho New Yorker. Yet, working in the restaurant field, he met many gay waiters. And he told me that he felt that being gay was not a choice, it was a biological assignment. I agree with that, if you have read my previous comments, that many factors make the determination of male or female, or a little of both. Everyone also has a sexual "preference", would you agree? I am talking about their psychological sexual desire, when I state preference. I am not saying they can make themselves decide what they want, or "prefer" their sexuality. I agree that many factors make up a person's sexuality. Of course, there probably are cases of abused men and women by the opposite sex that may make them hate anyone of that sex and cause them to be homosexual. But I don't agree with that being the norm. In fact, many gays agonize over coming out of the closet, but cannot bring themselves to change their sexuality to adhere to the "norm" or "heterosexual" lifestyle, nor should they have to. Simply because they are not heterosexual.

Let's all be understanding and have compassion for others that do not follow the "norm", whether it be sexually, mentally or physically. We all have that frightened child inside of us no matter how old we are, and because we are adults we sometimes try to hide it, and in doing so, we come off cruel and hurtful.


I appreciate your clarification.

"Everyone also has a sexual "preference", would you agree?"

We may choose the "object of our desire" which one can call preference if this is what you are talking about. I do believe, as I gather that you do too, that LBGTQ gender attributes, or self identification are highly influenced by biology and not "choice" as proposed by many Religions and historically by Psychology. This is where the terms preference and choice can confuse and compound the issue. Sex and Gender are in my view highly influenced if not determined by biology.

I appreciate this dialogue, one that needs to happen more in the fields of Health, Mental Health and Education.

Iflyfishconmiphysicianamagas

DENNIS - 11-24-2013 at 02:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Fly Fish, my father was a very macho New Yorker. Yet, working in the restaurant field, he met many gay waiters.



What were they waiting for? Alimony? :lol:


Ohhh well...eventually, I suppose. That's a good thing.
But, it occurs to me here that the gay faction lobbyists don't have to circle their wagons for the ensuing fight for fiscal rights. They have the straight community to fight for them...kinda like the "Gay Foreign Legion."

It's all good. I never said it wasn't.

I'm still waiting for Pierre and Gaston to point out my comments of generalized gay hatred which proves, or even indicates I'm a gay hater. They seem to have trouble finding those.
Keep looking, militaires.

DENNIS - 11-24-2013 at 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
I also recognize that homophobia, like all phobias, is a disorder, and some folks absolutely freak out if they accidentally walk into a spider's web.



OK...Gooody...show all of us when and where I was homophobic?
Was it when I said I repel from homo activity in public [ I did include all inappropriate activity by all people by the way] in front of families at a pride parade...or was it when I said the freak show RuPaul production made me want to throw up in my lap?

You, mr. tolerant, are a fraud. A NIMBY fraud.

Don't ever preach morality to me. You aren't qualified, in spite of how many cross-dressers or transgenders you know from a loooong distance.

I don't hate anybody for anything [ well...maybe some liberals] and I sure as *** don't hate gays. Why would I?

What I repel from is the gays who feel they have to assert themselves publically in order to validate themselves only because they're gay.
I don't need to know...and more importantly, I don't need to care, especialley if I'm being told I have to.

Sooo, Perry....you do, think and feel what the *** you want to do, but please....please don't tell me...ever...what I should think and feel.


My thoughts throughout this thread have, in my opinion, been reasonable to an open mind, unlike yours and your p-nut gallery, ateo.


This is Rick's thread, and for that I apologize to him....but not to you. Go *** yourself for your heavy-handed rendition of free speech.


I reiterate this request:

"OK...Gooody...show all of us when and where I was homophobic?"

Ateo - 11-24-2013 at 05:53 PM

Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, may be based on irrational fear, and is sometimes related to religious beliefs.
- Internet

Dennis,

I think your posts would qualify as having negative attitudes and feelings towards gays.

This is getting boring. I hope we can move on to more important things like what tire is best for Baja, what time does the tourist card office open at the border, and which Baja gas station rips you off the least.

Sorry Iflyfish for contaminating your thread. I'm done.



:tumble:

Barry A. - 11-24-2013 at 06:03 PM

"Dennis,

I think your posts would qualify as having negative attitudes and feelings towards gays."

You're kidding, right?????? So, not liking people fragrantly exposing themselves in public for some apparent imagined effect is "homophobic"??? Wow, that is something!!!!! (and REALLY all emcompassing)

My Conclusions: We are ALL "homophobic"!!!!! in one way or another.

Barry

EnsenadaDr - 11-24-2013 at 06:20 PM

Wow Barry what scent are you talking about? Fragrantly??? or is it flagrantly?? A rose is a rose is a rose...

Barry A. - 11-24-2013 at 06:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Wow Barry what scent are you talking about? Fragrantly??? or is it flagrantly?? A rose is a rose is a rose...


Oooooops!!! :lol::lol::lol: