BajaNomad

Living at ease in Baja

cessna821 - 12-3-2013 at 01:21 PM

Mexicans are partly descended from Spanish speaking people, and they have typical Spanish manners, courteous and polite.

Just today I saw a big expat, American or Canadian, push past some Mexicans queueing in a tienda without ackowledgement of any sort.

I was in the same queue to pay for my groceries and as I stood there several Mexicans came in and passed in the same way, and each of them acknowledged the folks in the queue with a nod and "Con Permiso". All smiled and replied.

Such a difference in attitude, and ambience.

It makes me wonder if these differences in culture are the main cause of expat problems in Baja.

jimgrms - 12-3-2013 at 01:31 PM

Nah just some folks are rude

vgabndo - 12-3-2013 at 01:44 PM

It pains me when I see this and I often let the people who've been offended know how I feel, but I wonder how a person might "remain at ease" and still make their discomfort known to the offenders.

sancho - 12-3-2013 at 03:27 PM

Expats should know manners/customs, Tourists maybe
not so, some expats are
in Mex to enjoy it for what it is, learn the language, etc., while some are there for the cheaper living, climate,
fishing, drinking. I do know from experience
that standing in line in Mex, one should not give much room
between yourself and the person standing in front of you,
otherwise Mex Nationals tend to think you are not in line,
a word I try to use when appropriate is quesira, which I believe
is I wish, in place of I want

David K - 12-3-2013 at 03:38 PM

Sounds like a rude person, no matter where he is from, or just not paying attention to how it's done?

Have you seen the behavior of 'Mexican Nationals' in traffic anywhere in Mexico (Guadalajara comes to mind), and getting into line at the border? Somehow the highly courteous Mexicano loses it when he gets behind the wheel. Family business greed is another fail... Guadalupe Canyon Hot Springs comes to mind.

I was told the story of 'frogs in a well' by a (Mexican National) friend of mine...

In the Mexican well, as soon as one frog gets above the others finding a method out, his brothers at the bottom jump up and pull him back down!

He continues to tell me in the (Norte) Americano well, the frog that gets an advantage is cheered on, and he helps the other frogs to get out too!

shari - 12-3-2013 at 03:53 PM

that sound just plain rude all right....when I first moved to Asuncion, I experienced the opposite which baffled me! Often, locals would simply step in front of me in line like I wasnt even there...I accepted it for years until one day I was fed up and stood up for myself...politely...canadian style of course...umm...excuse me miss, I think I may have been here in line and it's my turn. The lady looked at me as if I had 3 eyes and continued to pay for her purchases...but I felt better.

It doesnt happen at all anymore...I guess I just had to put in my time...but it did upset me for quite awhile.

but yes, I do think that many problems people have in Mexico results from a lack of understanding of the culture and ways of doing things here.

The perfect example is when I hear people complaining about the slow service when they never bring the cheque after a meal...but in Mexico it is considered very rude to just bring the cheque if it isnt asked for...it's just different.

I did have to learn to step up and just yell out my order at taco stands instead of waiting for them to take my order...I would be at the front of the line...right in front of them and people behind me were getting served after they shout...Dame dos de carne asada! and not even a please or thank you...my my.

bajaguy - 12-3-2013 at 04:11 PM

Cheque????

bajajudy - 12-3-2013 at 04:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sancho

a word I try to use when appropriate is quesira, which I believe
is I wish, in place of I want

I believe that it is quisiera which means I would like and is considered more polite than quiero which means I want.

shari - 12-3-2013 at 04:18 PM

Oh excuse me bajaguy...my canadian is showing!:lol:

dasubergeek - 12-3-2013 at 04:54 PM

I had to force myself, when I first started going, to use the 'tú' form more often, especially at places like taco stands ("Dame dos de carne asada" instead of "deme dos de carne asada"). I grew up speaking French, and in French you would never, ever, ever address someone you don't know as "tu" unless they were a small child or a pet.

On the other hand, Mexicans have much more florid manners when they are being formal. I get stared at when I talk in Spanish to Puerto Ricans or Dominicans because when I don't hear them, I've become conditioned to say, "¿Mande?"

Paulina - 12-3-2013 at 07:29 PM

I have a "waiting in line' story to share.

Once upon a long time ago, at a town dance on New Year's eve, I was waiting my turn in a long line to use the toilet. I was finally at the door, next up. As the door opened and the ladies that were inside came out, two other ladies came out of nowhere, loud and laughing,they rushed the door to get in ahead of me.

I really had to go.

So I joined them.

They were a bit taken back, as I assume they expected me to give up my place in line. I closed and locked the door, smiled and motioned for them to go ahead. They were like deer in the head lights.

So I went.

I'm not shy.

I had my own t.p. and politely offered it up when I was done, rinsed my hands and leaned against the door, implying that I would wait to open it after they had finished.

They peed in silence.

Those two ladies turned out to be sisters and have been my friends since.

P>*)))>{

Desertbull - 12-3-2013 at 09:01 PM

Neal Johns deals with this all the time....

His list of 200+ Wives in Waiting are constantly cutting each other down...

:lol:

Zapotec - 12-3-2013 at 10:06 PM

Good thread. I heard of an ex pat who tried to steal a home from its owner! Hard to believe but it is a true story! He didn't get away with it, though. And the ex pat hadn't even lived in Baja for that long either!

oladulce - 12-4-2013 at 08:11 AM

Good one Paulina :dudette:

MitchMan - 12-4-2013 at 08:19 AM

I don't know what it is, but Mexicans seem to exhibit child-like impatience and impetuousness when in lines or when driving in traffic. You'll get honked at if you don't take off immediately when the green light comes on. Never made sense to me as Mexicans really don't care if they are on time to anything.

BUT, it's been my observation that Mexicans in Baja generally are very quick and generous to give help to you when you need it most, especially in an emergency. I've never ever seen the likes of that in the USA, in general.

Every time I get miffed by Mexican impetuousness, I remind myself of the many times that I got help when I really, really needed it, and then I calm down...it's the least I can do.

sequoyah - 12-4-2013 at 08:26 AM

One of the first things I witnessed when I got to Ensenada was an American boater saying loudly to someone at the Port Captains office "Is that 30 minutes going to be real time or Mexican time?". He made me want to throw up.

I have encountered mostly kindness, good humor, a willingness to help and a graciousness that is hard to even describe from the people of Baja. And most of what I have seen from the ex-pats here is respectful and thankful.

But I have also seen ex-pats and tourists who act like colonialists. Some talk loudly about the flaws and the difficulties, assuming an attitude of superiority and an arrogance that is obvious.

They are certainly bound to have a negative effect no matter how much money the tourist industry provides. I hate to see that.

"Me gustaría" is the term I was taught.

sequoyah - 12-4-2013 at 12:35 PM

Someone told me early on that this was a polite way of making a request and it seems to be happily accepted by most people.
Quote:
Originally posted by sancho
Expats should know manners/customs, Tourists maybe
not so, some expats are
in Mex to enjoy it for what it is, learn the language, etc., while some are there for the cheaper living, climate,
fishing, drinking. I do know from experience
that standing in line in Mex, one should not give much room
between yourself and the person standing in front of you,
otherwise Mex Nationals tend to think you are not in line,
a word I try to use when appropriate is quesira, which I believe
is I wish, in place of I want

sancho - 12-4-2013 at 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sequoyah
"Is that 30 minutes going to be real time or Mexican time?"








While that satement is arrogrant, rude, there is some
deal of truth to it, I believe the Hawaiian Isles time is referred to
Island Time. Gringos are a bit obsessed with the clock,
In Mex, manana doesn't necessarily mean tomorrow, but
courtesy goes a long way

It was the way he said it.

sequoyah - 12-4-2013 at 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sancho
Quote:
Originally posted by sequoyah
"Is that 30 minutes going to be real time or Mexican time?"



While that satement is arrogrant, rude, there is some
deal of truth to it, I believe the Hawaiian Isles time is referred to
Island Time. Gringos are a bit obsessed with the clock,
In Mex, manana doesn't necessarily mean tomorrow, but
courtesy goes a long way


I am learning that time is different here, and that's fine. He said it in a really arrogant and condescending way… and to someone who was going out of his way to assist him.

I haven't seen a lot of that, but I want to hide when I do.

oxxo - 12-4-2013 at 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sancho
Quote:
Originally posted by sequoyah
"Is that 30 minutes going to be real time or Mexican time?"



While that satement is arrogrant, rude, there is some
deal of truth to it, I believe the Hawaiian Isles time is referred to
Island Time. Gringos are a bit obsessed with the clock,
In Mex, manana doesn't necessarily mean tomorrow, but
courtesy goes a long way


I know I have told this story on BN before but it is one of my favorites and shows how goodnatured Mexicans can be.

I had a blockage in my sewer so I called my Mexican plumber, Pablito, a rolly-polly kind of guy. Pablito surveyed the problem and said in Spanish, "I can fix this in a Mexican minute!" I said, Pablito how long is a Mexican minute? (he set me up). He responded in English, "About two days!" He then started laughing so hard he had trouble catching his breath. I love Mexicans!! (he was done in a couple of hours, even replaced a section of line that was cracked and clogged with tree roots, no further problems in 4 years)

BajaBlanca - 12-4-2013 at 01:11 PM

Oxxo. That is a great story!

vgabndo - 12-4-2013 at 01:53 PM

X2 !! Well told. I could just see it in my mind's eye, and it made me smile BIG.:lol:

Pompano - 12-4-2013 at 07:02 PM

I've had the good fortune to have met the most helpful & considerate folks in Baja Sur...mostly country folk. I have also met the rudest & most impolite people here, too.

Thank God, the nice ones far outnumber the bad. Kind of like parts of the USA, hmm?

In Baja, like anywhere, you learn to adjust. I once had to drop an eldery gal who wedged herself in front of me at Manuel's grocery tienda in Mulege.

Not to worry... the other day I asked Manuel how she was doing and he said..."Mom's better today, Rogelio."

Bubba - 12-5-2013 at 05:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Oxxo. That is a great story!


Ditto!

grizzlyfsh95 - 12-5-2013 at 11:07 AM

Quote:
This explains a lot about why Mexico finds modernity and cooperative development so difficult.


I was told the story of 'frogs in a well' by a (Mexican National) friend of mine...

In the Mexican well, as soon as one frog gets above the others finding a method out, his brothers at the bottom jump up and pull him back down!

He continues to tell me in the (Norte) Americano well, the frog that gets an advantage is cheered on, and he helps the other frogs to get out too!

Chupacabra - 12-5-2013 at 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cessna821
Mexicans are partly descended from Spanish speaking people, and they have typical Spanish manners, courteous and polite.


Most Mexicans are courteous and polite. Some decapitate people and dissolve bodies in hydrochloric acid.

They come in all flavors, just like anywhere else.