BajaNomad - Letter to the Editor says 'ex-pats' should set an example by stopping at stop signs

Letter to the Editor says 'ex-pats' should set an example by stopping at stop signs

Pages: 1 2

apple - 12-14-2013 at 05:11 PM

Page 16 of last week's Baja Citizen
http://www.bajacitizen.com/Editions/November202013115.pdf

"Could you please let your readers know that a stop sign is a stop sign and it means STOP? It doesn’t matter what others do. Where I come from, we stop and most ex-pats know better. I have seen way to many car accidents because drivers don’t stop. We need to be the example and stop.
Thank-you for your time.
Susan H."

pauldavidmena - 12-14-2013 at 05:14 PM

Apart from being "the right thing to do", it just might save a life.

David K - 12-14-2013 at 05:15 PM

Have you been to La Paz? I stopped at each stop sign, and locals cruise right by and seem to think I just arrived from another planet! LOL :lol:

El Jefe - 12-14-2013 at 05:17 PM

Make a complete stop at a stop sign to set an example and get rear ended by the guy behind you. Sure thing.

DENNIS - 12-14-2013 at 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by apple
We need to be the example and stop.
Thank-you for your time.
Susan H."

Susan H. is a totally offensive idiot.
What Mexicans repel from most, is the great, self-righteous, northern neighbor telling them how to act.

Read some history books, Susan.....you total mo-ron.

Setting an Example
MrBillM - 12-14-2013 at 05:21 PM

For the LOCALS ?

Yeah, Right.

I've lost count of the number of times I've come close to being rear-ended by a local when I've stopped at a stop sign with no cross-traffic.

The ultimate, of course, being when they roar past making gestures and mouthing BAD words.

They "apparently" missed the lesson.

monoloco - 12-14-2013 at 05:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pauldavidmena
Apart from being "the right thing to do", it just might save a life.
It might also get you rear-ended.

monoloco - 12-14-2013 at 05:44 PM

In Mexico, a stop sign is just a suggestion. I've actually had people blaring their horns because I didn't proceed through a red light when there was no opposing traffic.

vgabndo - 12-14-2013 at 05:51 PM

So, what do you guys in Bahia Asuncion do at the stop sign in front of the Police Department, and what do the locals most often do?

Just curious.

Don't THEY say ?
MrBillM - 12-14-2013 at 05:58 PM

"When in Rome, do as the Dagos do ?"

AND in Baja ?

I'm always reading and hearing that, as foreigners, we should respect and follow local custom to avoid insult and embarrassment.

aguachico - 12-14-2013 at 06:37 PM

Stop signs? Red lights are suspect to interpretation.

shari - 12-14-2013 at 07:07 PM

well, the stop sign in front of the police department...I pretty much almost stop at that one...my tires may stop rolling for a second sometimes but mainly I come to a near stop, look both ways and continue on through...learning from the locals who set the example for me.

rts551 - 12-14-2013 at 08:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
well, the stop sign in front of the police department...I pretty much almost stop at that one...my tires may stop rolling for a second sometimes but mainly I come to a near stop, look both ways and continue on through...learning from the locals who set the example for me.

my son got a ticket (request for mordida) for rolling through that sign on his quad.

bacquito - 12-14-2013 at 08:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by apple
Page 16 of last week's Baja Citizen
http://www.bajacitizen.com/Editions/November202013115.pdf

"Could you please let your readers know that a stop sign is a stop sign and it means STOP? It doesn’t matter what others do. Where I come from, we stop and most ex-pats know better. I have seen way to many car accidents because drivers don’t stop. We need to be the example and stop.
Thank-you for your time.
Susan H."

Welcome to the group apple. As you can see we are an expressive group!!

[Edited on 12-15-2013 by bacquito]

weebray - 12-14-2013 at 09:25 PM

Here is my rejoinder to Susan H. as printed in the Dec. 9th edition of the Baja Citizen. Note that I had to bite my tongue and temper my usual sarcastic demeanor to get this printed.
Susan H.
I am afraid you have failed to consider the traffic patterns in La Paz through the eyes of the people that live here. We have been driving in La Paz since the early 90's and have observed the "system" of treating a stop sign more like a yield sign actually works quite well. It does take a bit of rethinking but once you get the hang of it you will be amazed at how well it works. It's a no brainer to slow down and look to see if anyone is going to arrive at the crosswalk before you. If not, just proceed without stopping. I know it's not the way we do it up north but look around, we're not "up north". Increased accidents??? The statistics say no, for the most part people respect the "system". You will encounter the aggressive driver that pushes on though he may not really have arrived first, no problem, just defer and smile. There is a side benefit here too. Many thousands of gallons of gasoline are saved and large amounts of pollution are avoided by this system. This is not a joke and a relaxation of the strict "full stop behind the sign" rule could and should be adopted up north saving millions of gallons of fuel and pollution. But at $300 per infraction in LA (I looked it up) it ain't gonna happen. Some other things you should know about La Paz: 1) Always come to a full stop on Revolucion at the corner of Degollado. This particular corner is a known $$$$ trap for unsuspecting miscreants. (look for the cop hiding behind the Telcel trailer) 2) Be on high alert at night and on Sundays when the drunks are out. They can be very aggressive and/or distracted. Read dangerous. 3) Be very careful that the cross traffic has a stop sign. This is one place I have seen a number of accidents. (some study required) I recommend you integrate with caution but adapt rather than criticize. You really are mucking up the system as well as aggravating people when you come to a full stop. The Mexican people are very practical. Their lives are based on something we could use a whole bunch more of in the US and Canada - common sense! Saludos, Bobby Ray

Bajaboy - 12-14-2013 at 09:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
well, the stop sign in front of the police department...I pretty much almost stop at that one...my tires may stop rolling for a second sometimes but mainly I come to a near stop, look both ways and continue on through...learning from the locals who set the example for me.

my son got a ticket (request for mordida) for rolling through that sign on his quad.

I'll bet he stops next time. Every so often, they will check for seat belts, too.

805gregg - 12-14-2013 at 11:01 PM

In La Paz I stopped for all the stop signs and also for pedestrians, I figure you have to show how a civilized citizen acts, they will learn, remember when there was all the trash along the highways?

larryC - 12-15-2013 at 07:52 AM

Bola has hit the big time, our main road through town is now complete and there is a new wall to represent a malecon. Along with all that we now have 7 stop signs going north and 7 going south. There is even a stop sign for a driveway. The locals here many times don't even slow down. I usually stop unless there is a local behind me then I only slow a little cause I know he will rear end me if I stop. There is so little traffic in this town that I don' blame the locals for running the stop signs. They are a lot of overkill.
Larry

Pacifico - 12-15-2013 at 08:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
Bola has hit the big time, our main road through town is now complete and there is a new wall to represent a malecon. Along with all that we now have 7 stop signs going north and 7 going south. There is even a stop sign for a driveway. The locals here many times don't even slow down. I usually stop unless there is a local behind me then I only slow a little cause I know he will rear end me if I stop. There is so little traffic in this town that I don' blame the locals for running the stop signs. They are a lot of overkill.
Larry

7 stop signs each way in BOLA? That's ridiculous!

laventana - 12-15-2013 at 08:05 AM

As an engineer I look at it from the standpoint of numbers, cost benifit... would love to see numbers on accident and deaths per mile driven with this system vs others..

From my observations this method does not appear to be any more dangerous. I just have never seen an accident at a 4 way stop sign intersection in LaPaz or in the USA. But that is anecdotal, so we need the numbers from a real study. then we can calculate the net benifit is reduced wear and tear on brakes and human efficiency in point a to point b and gas savings less pollution.

I saw a presentation on the web by ted forum on this subject.

found it
http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_lauder_s_new_traffic_sign_take...

his calculation is a stop sign each direction costs a society 2 million a year in the usa.

He did not take into account the wear and tear on the car.

[Edited on 12-15-2013 by laventana]

wilderone - 12-15-2013 at 08:06 AM

The only reason I come to a complete stop at stop signs in Baja California is because I don't want the police to target the gringa and give me a ticket.

vandenberg - 12-15-2013 at 08:06 AM

Weebray, Good post

jimgrms - 12-15-2013 at 08:13 AM

I saw the stop sign i just didn't see the cop .

rts551 - 12-15-2013 at 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
well, the stop sign in front of the police department...I pretty much almost stop at that one...my tires may stop rolling for a second sometimes but mainly I come to a near stop, look both ways and continue on through...learning from the locals who set the example for me.

my son got a ticket (request for mordida) for rolling through that sign on his quad.

I'll bet he stops next time. Every so often, they will check for seat belts, too.

Yezzz sir. He does. Was the night before the race a couple of years ago. He was headed to the Check-in/revision. Everyone was in a festive mood. SO after the threat of a 200 peso fine they settled on 100 pesos and headed over to the beer store.

DianaT - 12-15-2013 at 08:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by apple
Page 16 of last week's Baja Citizen
http://www.bajacitizen.com/Editions/November202013115.pdf

"Could you please let your readers know that a stop sign is a stop sign and it means STOP? It doesn’t matter what others do. Where I come from, we stop and most ex-pats know better. I have seen way to many car accidents because drivers don’t stop. We need to be the example and stop.
Thank-you for your time.
Susan H."

The parts in bold deserve to be in bold. We know better and we need to set the example are ----- well, they are far too common statements from some ex-pats and visitors.

ncampion - 12-15-2013 at 09:22 AM

Tell me why people in the US think that somehow we are the only people in the world who know how to do everything "right"? Then we try to impose our beliefs on the rest of the world, often with terrible results.

DianaT - 12-15-2013 at 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncampion
Tell me why people in the US think that somehow we are the only people in the world who know how to do everything "right"? Then we try to impose our beliefs on the rest of the world, often with terrible results.

From our experiences traveling, it is not just the some ex-pats from the US, it is also some ex-pats from Canada and some visitors from both.

Just my speculation, with no academic proof of anything, but perhaps it comes from our Northern European Colonial heritage that included the concept of White Man's Burden.

[Edited on 12-15-2013 by DianaT]

gnukid - 12-15-2013 at 09:30 AM

People who stop at stop signs when there are no cars coming cause accidents in la paz. The article should have read the complete opposite, please do not stutter stop or come to a complete abrupt stop when you can see 100ft that no cars are coming.

And when there is traffic GO when it's your turn, a perfect 4 stop intersection works like gears of a clock with traffic moving constantly. In fact I see cops only pulling people over who fail to comply with the usual method because it's SUSPICIOUS!

FWIW in the USA the law used to read the same, treat the stop sign as a yield sign when you can see that it's clear and no cars are coming a 100ft in either direction, though, the police reinterpret it as income generation opportunity.

rts551 - 12-15-2013 at 09:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid

FWIW in the USA the law used to read the same, treat the stop sign as a yield sign when you can see that it's clear and no cars are coming a 100ft in either direction, though, the police reinterpret it as income generation opportunity.

I did not know there were federal US traffic laws.

[Edited on 12-15-2013 by rts551]

Paula - 12-15-2013 at 09:53 AM

Hey, why not have red stop signs where it is important to make a full stop, and green signs where it really isn't necessary. Additionally, it would be a nice Christmas decor touch at this time of year and they could stay up year round to save on annual decorating expenses.

Actuall, I agree with weebray, the Baja system wors well, and we should loosen up on this in the US.

[Edited on 12-15-2013 by Paula]

laventana - 12-15-2013 at 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paula
Hey, why not have red stop signs where it is important to make a full stop, and green signs where it really isn't necessary. Additionally, it would be a nice Christmas decor touch at this time of year and they could stay up year round to save on annual decorating expenses.

Actuall, I agree with weebray, the Baja system wors well, and we should loosen up on this in the US.

[Edited on 12-15-2013 by Paula]
that actually is a great idea....

if you watch the ted video they discuss the issue of what the sign should look like, but yours is very human factors oriented.

tripledigitken - 12-15-2013 at 10:03 AM

Now I know what to say to those tecate cops.

apple - 12-15-2013 at 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
The parts in bold deserve to be in bold. We know better and we need to set the example are ----- well, they are far too common statements from some ex-pats and visitors.

They are in bold and I posted it because the idea that we white folks "know better" is borderline racist.

willardguy - 12-15-2013 at 10:28 AM

mexicans also drive as fast as their cars will go and love to pass on blind curves. no thanks, i'll keep going the speed limit and stop at stop signs! I dont need any more problems

That Letter Doesn't Go Far Enough
Gypsy Jan - 12-15-2013 at 10:39 AM

If that tone-deaf, ignoramus Ammmurrrcan living in foreign country without any understanding of the culture wants to be the stern teacher and set a good moral example for the stupid, non-law-abiding locals, then he should mount a campaign to "Hang All the Scofflaws!"

DianaT - 12-15-2013 at 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by apple

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
The parts in bold deserve to be in bold. We know better and we need to set the example are ----- well, they are far too common statements from some ex-pats and visitors.

They are in bold and I posted it because the idea that we white folks "know better" is borderline racist.

Absolutely.

Pompano - 12-15-2013 at 10:48 AM

I use discretion at a stop sign. I think about where I am, what the local customs suggest, and most of all...what's that sticking out of the car's window behind me?

David K - 12-15-2013 at 10:53 AM

Catch 22:
So, to comply with local custom, do we start leaving all our trash on the beach (or in the desert after watching a race), including dirty diapers and beer bottles? Do we spray paint the boulders with our names and date of our trip as a family historic event?

I think we need to do what is right in our hearts and minds... and while I did stop at each sign in La Paz, I made it as brief as possible so as not to cause a riot or rear ending!

cabokid - 12-15-2013 at 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by weebray
Here is my rejoinder to Susan H. as printed in the Dec. 9th edition of the Baja Citizen. Note that I had to bite my tongue and temper my usual sarcastic demeanor to get this printed.
Susan H.
I am afraid you have failed to consider the traffic patterns in La Paz through the eyes of the people that live here. We have been driving in La Paz since the early 90's and have observed the "system" of treating a stop sign more like a yield sign actually works quite well. It does take a bit of rethinking but once you get the hang of it you will be amazed at how well it works. It's a no brainer to slow down and look to see if anyone is going to arrive at the crosswalk before you. If not, just proceed without stopping. I know it's not the way we do it up north but look around, we're not "up north". Increased accidents??? The statistics say no, for the most part people respect the "system". You will encounter the aggressive driver that pushes on though he may not really have arrived first, no problem, just defer and smile. There is a side benefit here too. Many thousands of gallons of gasoline are saved and large amounts of pollution are avoided by this system. This is not a joke and a relaxation of the strict "full stop behind the sign" rule could and should be adopted up north saving millions of gallons of fuel and pollution. But at $300 per infraction in LA (I looked it up) it ain't gonna happen. Some other things you should know about La Paz: 1) Always come to a full stop on Revolucion at the corner of Degollado. This particular corner is a known $$$$ trap for unsuspecting miscreants. (look for the cop hiding behind the Telcel trailer) 2) Be on high alert at night and on Sundays when the drunks are out. They can be very aggressive and/or distracted. Read dangerous. 3) Be very careful that the cross traffic has a stop sign. This is one place I have seen a number of accidents. (some study required) I recommend you integrate with caution but adapt rather than criticize. You really are mucking up the system as well as aggravating people when you come to a full stop. The Mexican people are very practical. Their lives are based on something we could use a whole bunch more of in the US and Canada - common sense! Saludos, Bobby Ray

laventana - 12-15-2013 at 10:57 AM

here is an example in India that I found on the Ted site. it appears to be a 5 way intersection and no stop sign at all. there is no friggin way I am going though this one without a tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_nDuN7tqfE

cabokid - 12-15-2013 at 10:57 AM

Well said. Why do us Americans always criticize and want to change the Mexican way which in my opinion a lot of times works much better than our own.

Osprey - 12-15-2013 at 11:22 AM

Never got very far into the Zen movement but right this minute, after all these posts, I have the urge to merge.

tripledigitken - 12-15-2013 at 11:32 AM

Why not install yield signs?

..and when in Boston do as the locals do?
durrelllrobert - 12-15-2013 at 11:32 AM

Used to fly into Boston's Logan airport a lot and when you leave the rental car lot you go into a tunnel to get to town. At the tunnel exit there are stop signs (not lights) for the right and left turns (no straight ahead as I recall) and I NEVER saw ANY car, taxi or bus stop at them Just a Boston tradition I guess.

Sandlefoot - 12-15-2013 at 11:43 AM

If you like the place the way it is enough to move there, or just vacation there, why would anyone want to change it. Look at Fenix, everyone loved it because it was dry and warm year around, with no allergies. Now there is every kind of plant that was not there that is causing allergies just like the ones we had back home. If you want to stop, then by all means stop! Why waste time criticizing others because they are doing what is ok in their mind just because it doesn't coincide with what you think is ok? If it aint broke why try to fix it!!!

Happy Trails and Merry Christmas

DianaT - 12-15-2013 at 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Used to fly into Boston's Logan airport a lot and when you leave the rental car lot you go into a tunnel to get to town. At the tunnel exit there are stop signs (not lights) for the right and left turns (no straight ahead as I recall) and I NEVER saw ANY car, taxi or bus stop at them Just a Boston tradition I guess.

Forgive the minor hijack, but when we drove across the country we were told over and over not to try and drive in downtown Boston as we would become lost and never find our way around. Take public transportation, we were advised.

We ignored he sage advice and spent a good part of the day driving around and around and around and saw nothing! We plan to fly back there and take public transportation to see all the places we missed.

willardguy - 12-15-2013 at 12:52 PM

all this talk about mexican common sense and lets not try to change things is all well and good but wouldnt it be great to see less roadside shrines?

http://whatshappeningmx.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/car-acciden...

shari - 12-15-2013 at 01:03 PM

ya gotta watch for Alto signs...you never know what flavour they will come in.

Alan - 12-15-2013 at 03:54 PM

I love driving in La Paz! Between the hidden stop signs, pot holes, road construction and unsigned streets the locals have taken driving to an art form! They make it work. I would suggest that the author take a moment to just chill and look around. Their systems works and it works well. In 10 years I have seen far fewer accidents in La Paz than other comparably sized US cities. She needs to just sit down at any of the outside cafes with a cup of coffee (in her case de-caffinated) and really just watch the traffic. She will learn that there is common sense behind every move. Stop signs in La Pa' are not only suggestions, in some cases they are landmarks! There are many intersections that locals will stop at because there "used to be" a stop sign there. They know it fell down and just hadn't been replaced yet. It's only been 6 years.

So, have I been know to wait at a red light at 5 in the morning on my way to go fishing, without another car in sight? Of course! I'm a gringo! I know there is a cop hiding somewhere nearby that needs a boost to his income but I certainly would never criticize a local for driving on through when it is obvious there is no one else out and about at that hour.

durrelllrobert - 12-15-2013 at 04:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Used to fly into Boston's Logan airport a lot and when you leave the rental car lot you go into a tunnel to get to town. At the tunnel exit there are stop signs (not lights) for the right and left turns (no straight ahead as I recall) and I NEVER saw ANY car, taxi or bus stop at them Just a Boston tradition I guess.

Forgive the minor hijack, but when we drove across the country we were told over and over not to try and drive in downtown Boston as we would become lost and never find our way around. Take public transportation, we were advised.

We ignored he sage advice and spent a good part of the day driving around and around and around and saw nothing! We plan to fly back there and take public transportation to see all the places we missed.

How could you get lost when they have directional signs like this installed all over the place:

dasubergeek - 12-16-2013 at 10:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paula
Hey, why not have red stop signs where it is important to make a full stop, and green signs where it really isn't necessary. Additionally, it would be a nice Christmas decor touch at this time of year and they could stay up year round to save on annual decorating expenses.

Actuall, I agree with weebray, the Baja system wors well, and we should loosen up on this in the US.

[Edited on 12-15-2013 by Paula]

They do something like this in eastern Jalisco and part of Guanajuato... there will be a sign under a stop sign that says "Uno Y Uno". If there are others coming up to the stop sign, you go one by one in the order you arrived; if not, you don't stop.

DianaT - 12-16-2013 at 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Used to fly into Boston's Logan airport a lot and when you leave the rental car lot you go into a tunnel to get to town. At the tunnel exit there are stop signs (not lights) for the right and left turns (no straight ahead as I recall) and I NEVER saw ANY car, taxi or bus stop at them Just a Boston tradition I guess.

Forgive the minor hijack, but when we drove across the country we were told over and over not to try and drive in downtown Boston as we would become lost and never find our way around. Take public transportation, we were advised.

We ignored he sage advice and spent a good part of the day driving around and around and around and saw nothing! We plan to fly back there and take public transportation to see all the places we missed.

How could you get lost when they have directional signs like this installed all over the place:

weebray - 12-16-2013 at 02:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by willardguy
all this talk about mexican common sense and lets not try to change things is all well and good but wouldnt it be great to see less roadside shrines?

If they put up shrines on the highways up north you would be hard pressed to find a place to pull over to change a flat. Also, Mexicans don't put up shrines for idiots.

[Edited on 12-16-2013 by weebray]

Nappo - 12-16-2013 at 10:26 PM

As most of you know, Tecate is a cop's dream with a red light coming into town right after the Pemex - No local slows down, then many stop signs as you head to the border. 2 years ago our buddy car got pulled over for not stopping and then found a small knife in the car - whoops fine went up. OK, the funny part, this year we made a special effort to stop completely at each stop sign. Got lit up by the police. He came up and asked if there was something wrong with our car as we seemed to stop too long! We told him we were just being courteous, letting other cars go...Also told him, 1st time in Tecate, no Spanish.....He again asked if our car was OK, and let us go with a "warning" to not stop too long! Gees! I read somewhere where Tecate has become some kind of "wonder town". Wonder what they'll find next to extract a few $$

Kgryfon - 12-18-2013 at 02:40 AM

I'm guessing that in the US, this lady also gets in the fast lane and drives 55 regardless of the traffic flow, how many people drive around her on the left, honk at her, and/or give her the finger.

tecatero - 12-18-2013 at 03:34 AM

Sounds like this gal should stay on the US side.....forever. The lack of all the signs , rules , regulations and petty BS that is ruining the USA is the reason I love Baja......I'll make sure to roll thru all 7 stop signs next time in LA PAz and toast to her at each one......

Floatflyer - 12-18-2013 at 07:17 AM

"I'm guessing that in the US, this lady also gets in the fast lane and drives 55 regardless of the traffic flow, how many people drive around her on the left, honk at her, and/or give her the finger. "

Maybe my biggest pet peeve!!!! And, of course, you meant on the "right". Selfish idiots all!

dasubergeek - 12-18-2013 at 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Nappo
As most of you know, Tecate is a cop's dream with a red light coming into town right after the Pemex - No local slows down, then many stop signs as you head to the border. 2 years ago our buddy car got pulled over for not stopping and then found a small knife in the car - whoops fine went up. OK, the funny part, this year we made a special effort to stop completely at each stop sign. Got lit up by the police. He came up and asked if there was something wrong with our car as we seemed to stop too long! We told him we were just being courteous, letting other cars go...Also told him, 1st time in Tecate, no Spanish.....He again asked if our car was OK, and let us go with a "warning" to not stop too long! Gees! I read somewhere where Tecate has become some kind of "wonder town". Wonder what they'll find next to extract a few $$

Sounds like the (now dissolved) village of New Rome, Ohio. (Read newromesucks.com for the stories of their awful police force.)

weebray - 12-18-2013 at 11:47 AM

"And the preacher said, 'you know that the lord is always by your side'. I was so pleased to be informed of this that I ran the next 20 red lights in his honor. Thank you Jesus, thank you lord." Well, you know what kind of eyes she had.

mtgoat666 - 12-18-2013 at 01:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kgryfon
I'm guessing that in the US, this lady also gets in the fast lane and drives 55 regardless of the traffic flow, how many people drive around her on the left, honk at her, and/or give her the finger.

did your mother teach you to go out on public streets and flip the bird at strangers just because you are frustrated?

you flip the bird at the wrong person, you are more likely to get a beat down from a road rager. but i think if you are prone to flipping the bird, you probably are a road rager. i think you got anger management problem!

you all should drive on public streets outside of your neighborhood the same way you want people to drive in front of your own house. i see so many people drive like jerks but only outside of their own street. would you speed down your own street, running stop sign at end of your block, while flipping the bird at your neighbor because she drives too slow?

Gulliver - 12-18-2013 at 10:08 PM

I've been driving in LaPaz and similar places for years. I stop at stop signs and take my turn. The car on my right goes first and all that normal stuff just like the U.S.

I have never been honked at or even had a dirty look. I don't find LaPaz traffic any better or worse than Seattle or L.A. or any larger city. Just a lot of nice folks getting on with their lives.

Granted, I see some locals and some others blowing the signs and traffic lights. But that's their choice. I have enough trouble running my own life without stressing about what other people are doing. I just laugh. I wasn't put on earth to be upset and unhappy.

Have another look at that UTube video of Bangalore traffic. Did anyone get hit? Very good drivers. I'll take that intersection over a country road in Washington State right after the bars close!

Pompano - 12-19-2013 at 01:53 PM

Luck favors the prepared mind. 38 years of Baja stopping (enough) at signs and never been rear-ended. (yet)

Most all know the drill. Use the same common sense you use in the US & Canada.

Driving in Baja is very calm compared to Mexico City. Now that place is a nightmare!

Ever been to the Zocolo district at rush hour? Whew...a regular demolition derby. I would only drive it again in a tank.

Kgryfon - 12-20-2013 at 12:35 AM

Goat, I don't flip anyone off and didn't say I did. Doesn't mean no one else on the road doesn't flip off, honk at, and pass (yes, on the right) the "righteous 55" a-holes.

Personally, I've been driving in commuter traffic on a daily basis for so many years that very little gets under my skin on the roads. Not worth the heartburn. I just roll my eyes at the jerks and go about my business. Kind of like here.

vgabndo - 12-20-2013 at 02:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kgryfon
Goat, I don't flip anyone off and didn't say I did. Doesn't mean no one else on the road doesn't flip off, honk at, and pass (yes, on the right) the "righteous 55" a-holes.

Personally, I've been driving in commuter traffic on a daily basis for so many years that very little gets under my skin on the roads. Not worth the heartburn. I just roll my eyes at the jerks and go about my business. Kind of like here.

Let me see it I have this right. People, like me, who drive the speed limit are a-holes and jerks, and and speeders like yourself aren't?

I don't get it, but I'm only a dumb Democrat, perhaps you can make it clear to me how I too could be morally above the law?

[Edited on 12-20-2013 by vgabndo]

DianaT - 12-20-2013 at 09:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo

Quote:
Originally posted by Kgryfon
Goat, I don't flip anyone off and didn't say I did. Doesn't mean no one else on the road doesn't flip off, honk at, and pass (yes, on the right) the "righteous 55" a-holes.

Personally, I've been driving in commuter traffic on a daily basis for so many years that very little gets under my skin on the roads. Not worth the heartburn. I just roll my eyes at the jerks and go about my business. Kind of like here.

Let me see it I have this right. People, like me, who drive the speed limit are a-holes and jerks, and and speeders like yourself aren't?

I don't get it, but I'm only a dumb Democrat, perhaps you can make it clear to me how I too could be morally above the law?

[Edited on 12-20-2013 by vgabndo]

Vgabndo, you would do well in our area on 395. It is four lanes from here to Bishop, so the speeders can pass us. We turn onto the highway set the cruise control to 66/67 to stay out of trouble. We get glares as to why we are not driving 75/80 on such a nice open highway; especially with the flantlanders racing to the ski areas.

We just smile as we see so many pulled over by the CHP. LOTS of CHP and Sheriffs on this stretch of highway which is a good thing. And we are glad and enjoy seeing them in their favorite spots in our little town as way too many ignore the 35mph speed limit and that makes it difficult and dangerous for the locals. And for many of the speeders, the crosswalk means nothing.

Besides, most of the time when we hear the siren at the Volunteer Fire Department go off, it is because of traffic accidents and often the mutilated car is temporarily brought and parked at the fire station. They always give me the chills as I wonder what the occupants looked like.

[Edited on 12-20-2013 by DianaT]

..and the signs say
durrelllrobert - 12-20-2013 at 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo

Quote:
Originally posted by Kgryfon
Goat, I don't flip anyone off and didn't say I did. Doesn't mean no one else on the road doesn't flip off, honk at, and pass (yes, on the right) the "righteous 55" a-holes.

Personally, I've been driving in commuter traffic on a daily basis for so many years that very little gets under my skin on the roads. Not worth the heartburn. I just roll my eyes at the jerks and go about my business. Kind of like here.

Let me see it I have this right. People, like me, who drive the speed limit are a-holes and jerks, and and speeders like yourself aren't?

I don't get it, but I'm only a dumb Democrat, perhaps you can make it clear to me how I too could be morally above the law?

[Edited on 12-20-2013 by vgabndo]

Vgabndo, you would do well in our area on 395. It is four lanes from here to Bishop, so the speeders can pass us. We turn onto the highway set the cruise control to 66/67 to stay out of trouble. We get glares as to why we are not driving 75/80 on such a nice open highway; especially with the flantlanders racing to the ski areas.

We just smile as we see so many pulled over by the CHP. LOTS of CHP and Sheriffs on this stretch of highway which is a good thing. And we are glad and enjoy seeing them in their favorite spots in our little town as way too many ignore the 35mph speed limit and that makes it difficult and dangerous for the locals. And for many of the speeders, the crosswalk means nothing.

Besides, most of the time when we hear the siren at the Volunteer Fire Department go off, it is because of traffic accidents and often the mutilated car is temporarily brought and parked at the fire station. They always give me the chills as I wonder what the occupants looked like.

[Edited on 12-20-2013 by DianaT]

..slower traffic (non-speeders) keep right

[Edited on 12-20-2013 by durrelllrobert]

Floatflyer - 12-20-2013 at 09:51 AM

In WA when you come to a passing lane there is a sign that says "Slower Traffic Keep Right". Note this does not say anything about how fast you are going, if you are the slower one, keep right. Sounds simple doesn't it. Can't believe how many people ignore this.

This may be because of the entitlement attitude some people have to "do their own thing", usually at some cost to others.

Can't wait to read comments on this post!

mtgoat666 - 12-20-2013 at 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Floatflyer
In WA when you come to a passing lane there is a sign that says "Slower Traffic Keep Right". Note this does not say anything about how fast you are going, if you are the slower one, keep right. Sounds simple doesn't it. Can't believe how many people ignore this.

This may be because of the entitlement attitude some people have to "do their own thing", usually at some cost to others.

Can't wait to read comments on this post!

when i drive the 5 up/down CA central valley, i notice people prefer to stick to the fast lane regardless of speed. you really can't blame them as much of the slow lane pavement is beat to hell or grooved due to heavy truck traffic. on the 5 the right lane is for passing

re washington, the water logged residents just drive too slow!

DianaT - 12-20-2013 at 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert

..slower traffic (non-speeders) keep right

[Edited on 12-20-2013 by durrelllrobert]

Yes, we need to keep the left lane open for the CHP to catch up with the speeders.

I avoid any bullheaded types...right or left.
Pompano - 12-20-2013 at 10:32 AM

[Edited on 12-21-2013 by BajaNomad]

wessongroup - 12-20-2013 at 10:54 AM

DianaT - 12-20-2013 at 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano

Gees, I would hate to hit that! A small coyote cost us $1200.00 this year.

[Edited on 12-21-2013 by BajaNomad]

Pompano - 12-20-2013 at 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT

Gees, I would hate to hit that! A small coyote cost us $1200.00 this year.

How right you are, Diane. A full grown bison will weigh about 2000 lbs. A mature coyote averages 30-35 lbs. Quite a difference in the damages to the vehicle.

On a trip in the Wyoming mountains, I swerved a motorhome to miss a mule deer doe and her fawn quickly crossing in front of us, but crashed the median barrrier, blew tires, dents galore, underside damage...and ended up with an $8000 repair bill. (thank goodness for State Farm insurance)

DianaT - 12-20-2013 at 03:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT

Gees, I would hate to hit that! A small coyote cost us $1200.00 this year.

How right you are, Diane. A full grown bison will weigh about 2000 lbs. A mature coyote averages 30-35 lbs. Quite a difference in the damages to the vehicle.

On a trip in the Wyoming mountains, I swerved a motorhome to miss a mule deer doe and her fawn quickly crossing in front of us, but crashed the median barrrier, blew tires, dents galore, underside damage...and ended up with an $8000 repair bill. (thank goodness for State Farm insurance)

We HATED hitting the coyote, but the choice was him or crashing the car into another car. We went back to make sure he was dead and not just injured.

It is the holiday season alright! Just drove to Bishop. On the way there, one CHP had 3 cars pulled over and on the way back, one CHP had one car and by town, a Sheriff had another one. Since there is snow in them there mountains, the Christmas vacation rush has started.

[Edited on 12-20-2013 by DianaT]

vgabndo - 12-20-2013 at 05:39 PM

The sign says slower traffic keep right. A person who is driving just as fast as the law allows, pinned on 55, 65, or 70 depending on the law CAN NOT BE SLOWER TRAFFIC assuming there is a speed law.
Anyone driving faster than the speed limit isn't "faster traffic" , they are simply outlaws who haven't at the moment been pulled over and cited by the grownups.

I just drove a thousand miles through Oregon, Idaho and Nevada almost entirely on two lane roads, and the number of people who were obviously speeding was absolutely minimal. I drove for hours in the company of the same vehicles all moving safely along at 55 MPH.

My travel time was almost exactly what the mapping program said it would be, and my fuel mileage was as good as it gets.

I have often fantasized about what I might say to a judge if I was ticketed for the "slower traffic" sign. It would take some explaining to get me to understand why I was pulled over for inconveniencing a speeder when it would have been just as easy and lot less embarrassing to just ticket the speeder. Probably a bigger fine too!

People driving slower than the posted speed limit should certainly use the right hand lanes where available; and I do.

durrelllrobert - 12-20-2013 at 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT

Gees, I would hate to hit that! A small coyote cost us $1200.00 this year.

How right you are, Diane. A full grown bison will weigh about 2000 lbs. A mature coyote averages 30-35 lbs. Quite a difference in the damages to the vehicle.

On a trip in the Wyoming mountains, I swerved a motorhome to miss a mule deer doe and her fawn quickly crossing in front of us, but crashed the median barrrier, blew tires, dents galore, underside damage...and ended up with an $8000 repair bill. (thank goodness for State Farm insurance)
Even though I've lived in Montana, Idaho, Colorado and eastern Washington the only deer I ever hit was about 100 ft. after leaving my driveway in redwood City. Wiped out my grille/radiator and since I had a big framing hammer in the truck I whacked him a good one in the haed to make sure he wasn't suffering. Made a U turn and pulled back into my driveway, got into my other car and by the time I got to where he was laying he was gone.

395 Speeders
bajaguy - 12-20-2013 at 06:15 PM

This time of year it's usually the SoCal ski crowd headed to Mammoth......no matter when they leave their home, they have to be first in the lift line.

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
........... Just drove to Bishop. On the way there, one CHP had 3 cars pulled over and on the way back, one CHP had one car and by town, a Sheriff had another one. Since there is snow in them there mountains, the Christmas vacation rush has started.

[Edited on 12-20-2013 by DianaT]

Barry A. - 12-20-2013 at 06:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
The sign says slower traffic keep right. A person who is driving just as fast as the law allows, pinned on 55, 65, or 70 depending on the law CAN NOT BE SLOWER TRAFFIC assuming there is a speed law.
Anyone driving faster than the speed limit isn't "faster traffic" , they are simply outlaws who haven't at the moment been pulled over and cited by the grownups.

I just drove a thousand miles through Oregon, Idaho and Nevada almost entirely on two lane roads, and the number of people who were obviously speeding was absolutely minimal. I drove for hours in the company of the same vehicles all moving safely along at 55 MPH.

My travel time was almost exactly what the mapping program said it would be, and my fuel mileage was as good as it gets.

I have often fantasized about what I might say to a judge if I was ticketed for the "slower traffic" sign. It would take some explaining to get me to understand why I was pulled over for inconveniencing a speeder when it would have been just as easy and lot less embarrassing to just ticket the speeder. Probably a bigger fine too!

People driving slower than the posted speed limit should certainly use the right hand lanes where available; and I do.

The law in CA says you WILL use the right hand lane on a 4 or more lane road unless passing another vehicle-----period!!! Those that cruize in the left lane blocking others from passing them is one of the most dangerous drivers on the road as they are one of the chief instigators of serious ROAD RAGE in other's. Road Rage is highly dangerous, and causes many very serious accidents, no matter how nutty and immature it is.

My personal feeling is that those that cruize in the left lane are just inviting trouble and death, and I think incredibly inconsiderate and judgemental, at the least..

Barry

Speeders and The Law...
Pompano - 12-20-2013 at 06:37 PM

A man driving in the right lane is stopped by police for speeding and the officer asks him for his driver's license, I don't have one," The man says. "It was taken away for drunk driving."

So the officer ask for the man's vehicle registration. "I don't have one." The man say's. "This car is stolen and I've murdered the owner and stuck him in the trunk."

At that point, The officer calls for backup up and in no time 10 police cars surround the stopped speeder. The sergeant on the scene appoaches the car and orders the man to open his trunk. He does and it is empty.

The sergeant then asks for the man's driver's license. The man pulls out a valid license and vehicle registration. "I don't get it," the sergeant says."My officer here says you told him you had no license or registration and that you stole this car."

The man shakes his head and says. " I bet that liar told you I was speeding too'"

David K - 12-20-2013 at 06:47 PM

To those who think the speed limit and their speedometer is God:

Unless you have a badge, society did not hire you to enforce speed laws by blocking others going faster than you want to. Wonder if someone back behind you is trying to get to the hospital! Heart attack, baby coming, child injury... you don't know!

Slow people cause more accidents than fast people when they hog the road.

Today on I-5, everyone in the fast lane had to change lanes to get around someone who thought they had a right to control the speed and drove slower than everyone else in the fast lane.

Have some manners, keep the fast lane unobstructed for faster traffic...!

vandenberg - 12-20-2013 at 06:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
The sign says slower traffic keep right. A person who is driving just as fast as the law allows, pinned on 55, 65, or 70 depending on the law CAN NOT BE SLOWER TRAFFIC assuming there is a speed law.
Anyone driving faster than the speed limit isn't "faster traffic" , they are simply outlaws who haven't at the moment been pulled over and cited by the grownups.

I just drove a thousand miles through Oregon, Idaho and Nevada almost entirely on two lane roads, and the number of people who were obviously speeding was absolutely minimal. I drove for hours in the company of the same vehicles all moving safely along at 55 MPH.

My travel time was almost exactly what the mapping program said it would be, and my fuel mileage was as good as it gets.

I have often fantasized about what I might say to a judge if I was ticketed for the "slower traffic" sign. It would take some explaining to get me to understand why I was pulled over for inconveniencing a speeder when it would have been just as easy and lot less embarrassing to just ticket the speeder. Probably a bigger fine too!

People driving slower than the posted speed limit should certainly use the right hand lanes where available; and I do.

The law in CA says you WILL use the right hand lane on a 4 or more lane road unless passing another vehicle-----period!!! Those that cruize in the left lane blocking others from passing them is one of the most dangerous drivers on the road as they are one of the chief instigators of serious ROAD RAGE in other's. Road Rage is highly dangerous, and causes many very serious accidents, no matter how nutty and immature it is.

My personal feeling is that those that cruize in the left lane are just inviting trouble and death, and I think incredibly inconsiderate and judgemental, at the least..

Barry

I'm with you Barry. Vagabundo makes himself sound like a typical self righteous A* hole.

Floatflyer - 12-20-2013 at 07:19 PM

David K & Vandenberg: X2

Left Lane
bajaguy - 12-20-2013 at 07:39 PM

Also called the number 1 lane.....if you are driving slower than the flow of traffic, even if you are obeying the speed limit, you can be cited for impeeding the flow of traffic. Move over and get into the far right lane

Kgryfon - 12-21-2013 at 01:15 AM

"To those who think the speed limit and their speedometer is God:

Unless you have a badge, society did not hire you to enforce speed laws by blocking others going faster than you want to. Wonder if someone back behind you is trying to get to the hospital! Heart attack, baby coming, child injury... you don't know!

Slow people cause more accidents than fast people when they hog the road.

Today on I-5, everyone in the fast lane had to change lanes to get around someone who thought they had a right to control the speed and drove slower than everyone else in the fast lane.

Have some manners, keep the fast lane unobstructed for faster traffic...! "

This! I have no problem with anyone going the speed limit. Just don't do it in the fast lane and block those who want to go faster. You are not put here on the highway to enforce the speed limit, and by doing so you endanger everyone else on the road. The fact is, whether you like it or not, most of the time there are those who are going to speed. Move over and let them go so they don't have to swerve around you into other lanes. If you insist on staying in the fast lane despite all the disruption you are causing because you are "right," you are the problem.

BTW, I am not a habitual speeder nor am I a reckless driver. I have NEVER, not once, caused an accident in the 40 or so years I've been driving. But I don't plop my ass into the fast lane and try to regulate everyone else's driving, either. Anyone who does is a control freak and an ass. JMHO.

Kgryfon - 12-21-2013 at 01:17 AM

Ha! It changed my original wording from a** to burro! Never knew it could do that! Very clever, admin...

Kgryfon - 12-21-2013 at 01:20 AM

And why was everyone saying to "do in Mexico as the Mexicans do" when it comes to stop signs, but when we take it back to the US and speed limits all the sudden everyone got all self-righteous about it? Has anyone ever driven in the US and NOT seen half the drivers speeding given the opportunity?

DianaT - 12-21-2013 at 08:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kgryfon
And why was everyone saying to "do in Mexico as the Mexicans do" when it comes to stop signs, but when we take it back to the US and speed limits all the sudden everyone got all self-righteous about it? Has anyone ever driven in the US and NOT seen half the drivers speeding given the opportunity?

I wish our little town would do like they do in Mexico and install a few topes, especially by our one and only crosswalk.

durrelllrobert - 12-21-2013 at 10:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Also called the number 1 lane.....if you are driving slower than the flow of traffic, even if you are obeying the speed limit, you can be cited for impeeding the flow of traffic. Move over and get into the far right lane

But watch out for trucks stopped at truck scale exit. This happened this week on I-5 at the San Onofre truck scale exit killing the driver and her 4 year old daughter:

fox5sandiego.com/2013/12/.../northbound-i-5-closed-after-fatal-accident

David K - 12-21-2013 at 10:48 AM

Such a sad scene... the news said she was going extremely fast (in the slow lane) and never braked, seemingly not looking (?)... so texting comes to mind. She leaves behind a husband and her other child... tragic.

Lee - 12-21-2013 at 08:19 PM

Sure a lot of self righteous SOB's thinking they are the authority on speed limits on 5. Go around if you don't like the speed of the driver in front of you and skip the sermons.

Impeding the flow of traffic speeding on 5 is a good thing. Slow the F down and get a life. Speeding is the primary cause of traffic accidents in Baja and on 5.

Assumptions suck.

bledito - 12-21-2013 at 09:05 PM

nothing more uncomfortable than being in front of someone who wants to do 90 in a 65 limit 2 lane road with lotsa no pass areas.

vgabndo - 12-22-2013 at 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
The sign says slower traffic keep right. A person who is driving just as fast as the law allows, pinned on 55, 65, or 70 depending on the law CAN NOT BE SLOWER TRAFFIC assuming there is a speed law.
Anyone driving faster than the speed limit isn't "faster traffic" , they are simply outlaws who haven't at the moment been pulled over and cited by the grownups.

I just drove a thousand miles through Oregon, Idaho and Nevada almost entirely on two lane roads, and the number of people who were obviously speeding was absolutely minimal. I drove for hours in the company of the same vehicles all moving safely along at 55 MPH.

My travel time was almost exactly what the mapping program said it would be, and my fuel mileage was as good as it gets.

I have often fantasized about what I might say to a judge if I was ticketed for the "slower traffic" sign. It would take some explaining to get me to understand why I was pulled over for inconveniencing a speeder when it would have been just as easy and lot less embarrassing to just ticket the speeder. Probably a bigger fine too!

People driving slower than the posted speed limit should certainly use the right hand lanes where available; and I do.

The law in CA says you WILL use the right hand lane on a 4 or more lane road unless passing another vehicle-----period!!! Those that cruize in the left lane blocking others from passing them is one of the most dangerous drivers on the road as they are one of the chief instigators of serious ROAD RAGE in other's. Road Rage is highly dangerous, and causes many very serious accidents, no matter how nutty and immature it is.

My personal feeling is that those that cruize in the left lane are just inviting trouble and death, and I think incredibly inconsiderate and judgemental, at the least..

Barry

Couple of questions Barry. What does the law say about people driving faster than the posted speed limit? My understanding is that there is a law against that similar to the one against driving slower than the speed limit in the fast lane. It became illegal to drive slower than the speeders because of the speeders, not because of law abiding citizens. BOTH are now VIOLATIONS.

Second question. What does it say about the mental/emotional stability of a person who goes into a "rage" when they encounter someone obeying the law? Conversely, what does it say about a citizen who is observed being a team player and playing by the rules?

Third question. When did it become my responsibility to violate the speed limit, or be constantly inconvenienced by having to speed up, slow down, and repeatedly change lanes in order to prevent nutty and immature" people from flying into a deadly rage?

You concluded:
My personal feeling is that those that cruize in the left lane are just inviting trouble and death, and I think incredibly inconsiderate and judgemental, at the least..

EXACTLY!!!! This whole moral argument is about the people who cruise in the left lane; the VAST majority of whom are violating the law by speeding. Speed is a factor in 1/3 of all highway deaths. Speeders have an excessive closing speed as they approach vehicles moving at a legal speed which certainly invites trouble.
Clearly, people responding to this thread who routinely break the law are quite judgmental about people who don't.

Kgryfon says that he is above the law because he "wants" to be. He claims: But I don't plop my burro into the fast lane and try to regulate everyone else's driving, either. Anyone who does is a control freak and an burro. JMHO.

You DO plop your arse in the fast lane, that is your point. You demand the exclusive use of that lane. You DO try to regulate everyone's driving by trying to make them drive YOUR speed; faster than is legally allowed. You come off like a control freak, when you try to control (and change) my legal driving habits, and your opinion (judgments) are anything but "humble" considering you are the speeder.

JMconsideredO This may be another one of those ACA vs amygdala things judging by what I know of the politics of the persons posting on each side. That might be the most interesting part of the whole discussion. light: The thing that comes to mind is that I've never heard a liberal make fun of a Prius. The Prius and Prius drivers being considered a negative thing comes from a different bunch of people. Maybe there is an enlightening connection?

[Edited on 12-22-2013 by vgabndo]

Kgryfon - 12-23-2013 at 01:33 AM

Vgabndo, Kgryfon is a she not a he, and I never said I speed. I said I don't plop my burro in the fast lane and try to regulate everyone else. I rarely get in the fast lane - as far as I'm concerned it's like posting a sign that says "give me a ticket." What I do observe, on a daily basis during my hour commute each way, is people in the fast lane going slow and peeing everyone else off. The drivers who want to go faster swerve into the right lanes to get around the slow person driving in the fast lane, endangering everyone else on the road. Happens all the time, it's unnecessary, and the slow driver needs to get the heck out of the fast lane. Want to drive the speed limit? Fine with me. Just move over to the slow lane. That's all.

My own mother used to do this. Made me crazy. She also refused to back off and let people merge into traffic on the freeway, since she was there first. Was she legally correct? Probably so - after all, incoming traffic is supposed to adjust to the existing traffic on the freeway, not the other way around. Was she right? No. She was impeding normal traffic flow and creating a dangerous situation for everyone else on the road. She was the nicest person in general but when she got behind the wheel she became some sort of crusader about her "right of way" and "It's the speed limit" instead of just chilling out and letting the other drivers do their thing. It was dangerous and silly and self righteous. When I'm on a two lane road and the guy behind me wants to go faster, I take the first turn out and let them pass. And as I said, I don't plop my burro in the fast lane and try to regulate everyone else. I don't care who you are or what the speed limit is - that's not the point. If you are going slower than the rest of the traffic in your lane, move over and let them go about their business. You can laugh at them when you drive by as they are getting a ticket if that makes you feel any better.

I have no idea what the Prius has to do with this conversation. I've never noticed a Prius driver doing the "righteous 55" act, so I'm not sure what your point is with that comment, or with how you are trying to somehow make a connection with "bad driving habits" to politics and, specifically, liberals. Seems a bit of a stretch there.

Here's a link to an article from Road and Travel Magazine on slow drivers in the fast lane that you may find useful, and a couple of quotes:

"It's a basic concept taught in driver's ed. Slow traffic stay to the right. Faster traffic uses the high-speed lanes. What's not to understand?"

"When drivers drive too slow in the high-speed lane many dangerous situations can occur. First, it creates a long line of frustrated drivers behind the slow poke. Most wait patiently in hopes the slow guy pulls over, but others will begin to tailgate. While this in itself is illegal and dangerous, frustration builds, transforming law-abiding citizens into road warriors."

Here's the full link: http://www.roadandtravel.com/carcare/drivetooslow.htm

Kgryfon - 12-23-2013 at 01:42 AM

Oh, and I never said I was above the law, not because I "want" to be or for any other reason. Don't "quote" me on something I never said.

Kgryfon - 12-23-2013 at 01:49 AM

"Anyone driving faster than the speed limit isn't "faster traffic..." Yes, they are. Don't know what planet you are from but it doesn't matter one whit if they are breaking the legal law. That's not your business. That's between them and the law. They are still "faster traffic" and you should get out of the way, move to the slow lane and go about your business. That's what I do. It's called defensive driving and common sense.

Alan - 12-23-2013 at 08:25 AM

Once again in classic Nomad fashion this post has morphed beyond recognition of the initial post I love this place!

Merry Christmas to ALL!

Osprey - 12-23-2013 at 09:05 AM

I'm old and I got to do a lot of crazy things when I was young. I lived in Vegas when Nevada had no speed limits on the highways. The law was "A speed appropriate to the condition of the weather, the road, the road condition, the time of day, the ability of the driver and the safety and capacity of the vehicle" (not ver batim) Took two trips to Reno and back at just under 130 MPH. It was a kick to pass the Highway patrol and just wave. The danger on that drive was not vehicles but wild burros which hung near the water around little desert towns --- needless to say drivers slowed waaay down to almost an idle in and around those 7 little towns on the way.

DianaT - 12-23-2013 at 09:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
Once again in classic Nomad fashion this post has morphed beyond recognition of the initial post I love this place!

Merry Christmas to ALL!

And morph they do. We love one of the local young highway patrol guys. He must have eyes all around his head. One day we saw him doing paper work parked in one of his favorite places and two cars went screaming by. We were sure he missed seeing them. But it appears that he dotted an i, crossed a t, added a period, and he came screaming by us in hot pursuit.

Then a couple of days ago, he was out of his car chatting with the local BBQ owner when we were walking to our Post Office. One van flew by in this 35 mph speed zone and he was passing on the right and left. We were sure our highway patrol guy missed him as when we walked by him, he said hello and then was faced away from the street. Is was seconds before off he went red lights and siren a blaring. And we were very glad.

We certainly have been known to speed in some areas, but along here, it really is dangerous. Even where the highway appears to be "open", there is cross traffic.

Again, I wish we would import the tope idea from Mexico for small highway towns divided by a highway!

[Edited on 12-23-2013 by DianaT]

Lee - 12-23-2013 at 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kgryfon
Vgabndo, Kgryfon is a she not a he, and I never said I speed. I said I don't plop my burro in the fast lane and try to regulate everyone else. I rarely get in the fast lane - as far as I'm concerned it's like posting a sign that says "give me a ticket." What I do observe, on a daily basis during my hour commute each way, is people in the fast lane going slow and ******* everyone else off. The drivers who want to go faster swerve into the right lanes to get around the slow person driving in the fast lane, endangering everyone else on the road. Happens all the time, it's unnecessary, and the slow driver needs to get the heck out of the fast lane. Want to drive the speed limit? Fine with me. Just move over to the slow lane.

The more you write, the more self righteous and moralistic the writing becomes. Who made you the authority on slow, fast, legal speeds?

If you share a road with stupid drivers, I got it. In my life of driving I-5, Southern California, I have never seen a driver ''plopping their burro'' in the fast lane. I'd say traffic all moves (eh, that would be 4 lanes in each direction) at a slower and faster rate, and there are people wanting to exceed the speed limit. That would be 70 mph.

I see plenty of those people GO AROUND and they are doing 75-85mph.

When I see accidents on I-5, and I see plenty on this road, it's ALWAYS EXCESSIVE SPEED.

It could be argued the speeders are colliding with the driver's who are driving too slow in any lane. I'd argue the speeders are the one's getting cited for unsafe speed.

Gringoes speeding SOB are the stupid, unsafe drivers. I could be wrong.

Barry A. - 12-23-2013 at 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
The sign says slower traffic keep right. A person who is driving just as fast as the law allows, pinned on 55, 65, or 70 depending on the law CAN NOT BE SLOWER TRAFFIC assuming there is a speed law.
Anyone driving faster than the speed limit isn't "faster traffic" , they are simply outlaws who haven't at the moment been pulled over and cited by the grownups.

I just drove a thousand miles through Oregon, Idaho and Nevada almost entirely on two lane roads, and the number of people who were obviously speeding was absolutely minimal. I drove for hours in the company of the same vehicles all moving safely along at 55 MPH.

My travel time was almost exactly what the mapping program said it would be, and my fuel mileage was as good as it gets.

I have often fantasized about what I might say to a judge if I was ticketed for the "slower traffic" sign. It would take some explaining to get me to understand why I was pulled over for inconveniencing a speeder when it would have been just as easy and lot less embarrassing to just ticket the speeder. Probably a bigger fine too!

People driving slower than the posted speed limit should certainly use the right hand lanes where available; and I do.

The law in CA says you WILL use the right hand lane on a 4 or more lane road unless passing another vehicle-----period!!! Those that cruize in the left lane blocking others from passing them is one of the most dangerous drivers on the road as they are one of the chief instigators of serious ROAD RAGE in other's. Road Rage is highly dangerous, and causes many very serious accidents, no matter how nutty and immature it is.

My personal feeling is that those that cruize in the left lane are just inviting trouble and death, and I think incredibly inconsiderate and judgemental, at the least..

Barry

Couple of questions Barry. What does the law say about people driving faster than the posted speed limit? My understanding is that there is a law against that similar to the one against driving slower than the speed limit in the fast lane. It became illegal to drive slower than the speeders because of the speeders, not because of law abiding citizens. BOTH are now VIOLATIONS.

Second question. What does it say about the mental/emotional stability of a person who goes into a "rage" when they encounter someone obeying the law? Conversely, what does it say about a citizen who is observed being a team player and playing by the rules?

Third question. When did it become my responsibility to violate the speed limit, or be constantly inconvenienced by having to speed up, slow down, and repeatedly change lanes in order to prevent nutty and immature" people from flying into a deadly rage?

You concluded:
My personal feeling is that those that cruize in the left lane are just inviting trouble and death, and I think incredibly inconsiderate and judgemental, at the least..

EXACTLY!!!! This whole moral argument is about the people who cruise in the left lane; the VAST majority of whom are violating the law by speeding. Speed is a factor in 1/3 of all highway deaths. Speeders have an excessive closing speed as they approach vehicles moving at a legal speed which certainly invites trouble.
Clearly, people responding to this thread who routinely break the law are quite judgmental about people who don't.

Kgryfon says that he is above the law because he "wants" to be. He claims: But I don't plop my burro into the fast lane and try to regulate everyone else's driving, either. Anyone who does is a control freak and an burro. JMHO.

You DO plop your arse in the fast lane, that is your point. You demand the exclusive use of that lane. You DO try to regulate everyone's driving by trying to make them drive YOUR speed; faster than is legally allowed. You come off like a control freak, when you try to control (and change) my legal driving habits, and your opinion (judgments) are anything but "humble" considering you are the speeder.

JMconsideredO This may be another one of those ACA vs amygdala things judging by what I know of the politics of the persons posting on each side. That might be the most interesting part of the whole discussion. light: The thing that comes to mind is that I've never heard a liberal make fun of a Prius. The Prius and Prius drivers being considered a negative thing comes from a different bunch of people. Maybe there is an enlightening connection?

[Edited on 12-22-2013 by vgabndo]

Vag-------you are making the situation vastly more complex than I do---------I refer back to the Law: the left lane of any 4 or more lane highway is a PASSING LANE, period. To treat it as anything else is against the law. I have no problem moving from right lane to left land as I cruze along at the speed limit, passing when I have to. What others do that does not interfere with my driving is none of my concern or responsibility.

Barry
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