BajaNomad - Big changes in Baja?

Big changes in Baja?

prt328 - 1-22-2014 at 05:52 PM

Besides the tax rate going up to 16% - same as the mainland - I hear a number of other things are changing as well and the Baja is no longer considered Frontera?

One of the biggest changes I heard is that cars will soon require TIP's like the mainland. Those of us with Permanent Resident status will have to import our South Dakota plated cars since we would not be able to get a TIP. If that's the case I wonder what happens to the other "rules" regarding importation (older than 5 years, newer than 10) and if they will apply? Since most of the importation companies are in the border towns are we all going to have to take a road trip??

As usual, the rumor mill is cranked up and it's very difficult to get any kind of "official" read on this. Any have any more info?

dasubergeek - 1-23-2014 at 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by prt328
Besides the tax rate going up to 16% - same as the mainland - I hear a number of other things are changing as well and the Baja is no longer considered Frontera?

One of the biggest changes I heard is that cars will soon require TIP's like the mainland. Those of us with Permanent Resident status will have to import our South Dakota plated cars since we would not be able to get a TIP. If that's the case I wonder what happens to the other "rules" regarding importation (older than 5 years, newer than 10) and if they will apply? Since most of the importation companies are in the border towns are we all going to have to take a road trip??

As usual, the rumor mill is cranked up and it's very difficult to get any kind of "official" read on this. Any have any more info?

That's a big enough rumour that if it had any 'juice', it'd be reported in actual newspapers�and I haven't seen anything like that. El Vigia, Frontera, Zeta... all silent on the issue.

I tend to think it's crap; they're not going to stem the flood of people visiting Baja California by forcing them to do TIPs, even if they didn't enforce it until Maneadero. There would be protest signs everywhere, and while there are signs complaining about the 16% tax, they center on the fact that they're not getting anything for that extra 5%.

DianaT - 1-23-2014 at 10:40 AM

It would be interesting to know where you heard the rumor about the possibility of TIP's being required in Baja. It would be interesting to follow where the rumor came from.

I sure hope it was just a rumor.

ncampion - 1-23-2014 at 10:49 AM

This Satueday in Loreto, a Mexican attorney is giving a lecture (in English) regarding the new laws and regulations. I notice tax and importation are two of the agenda items. If I get any news I'll report.

DianaT - 1-23-2014 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ncampion
This Satueday in Loreto, a Mexican attorney is giving a lecture (in English) regarding the new laws and regulations. I notice tax and importation are two of the agenda items. If I get any news I'll report.

Thanks, that will be a good things. I wonder if he will also talk at all about the possible change in the property ownership laws.

prt328 - 1-23-2014 at 02:10 PM

I guess it's more than a rumor now. Baja Insider reports over 50 U.S. cars were confiscated at the Cabo airport because they were not imported and were owned by Permanent Residents. I guess I'll have to get my South Dakota car imported!

Worse than that is I drove my RV down (with Calif. plates) and want to get it back home in May. Does that mean I have to import it now and export it when I bring it back to the States??? Assuming it doesn't get impounded along the way!

Always something to keep us busy....

Here's the Baja Insider article (I guess it's okay to link to it?)

http://bajainsider.com/baja-business/importingregisteringveh...

Hook - 1-23-2014 at 02:17 PM

That's pretty strange. I've not heard of vehicles belonging to permanente holder being confiscated over here and we are in a free zone, too.

But maybe they just havent started checking over here, yet.

DavidE - 1-23-2014 at 02:29 PM

Jajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja...........

The tax wasn't going up either. Ya know the "military" puesto de control south of Maneadero, the one that isn't manned....?

Los Diputados and Senadores are wrestling with Hacienda about how and when to allow "Frontera" cars to be nationalized. The big deal is about fees, transition times and enforcement, not "if" the placas nationalizados are going to become mandatory.

Ya think gobernacion is going to shoot their mouth off about a forthcoming taxing stunt? The issue now is to keep northern B.C. totally paperwork free and not impose the "Sonora Only" crappola that goes on across the gulf.

The hogs at the trough in gobernacion know they are missing out on tens of millions of dollar of loot, oops excuse me, revenue, by allowing renegade cars to run around Baja California and Baja California Sur.

Nacionalizacion is going to cause an uproar. The sole question is whether PRIISTAS think they can weather the storm without endangering their chances of enjoying another sexenio at the hog trough. Los Bajas are not exactly a political powerhouse. Sort of like being afraid of North Dakota.

apple - 1-23-2014 at 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by prt328
I guess it's more than a rumor now. Baja Insider reports over 50 U.S. cars were confiscated at the Cabo airport because they were not imported and were owned by Permanent Residents.

Here's the Baja Insider article (I guess it's okay to link to it?)

http://bajainsider.com/baja-business/importingregisteringveh...

I'm really surprised that I haven't read about those seizures anywhere else.
I'll believe it when I read on a website that isn't trying to sell me on importing my vehicle.

ncampion - 1-23-2014 at 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Thanks, that will be a good things. I wonder if he will also talk at all about the possible change in the property ownership laws.

He will be addressing this issue as well. It's a two hour lecture with an additional hour for Q&A. I will try to bring up the topic of this thread and see what he says. Here's the flyer.

CONFERENCE ON IMPORTANT EXISTING & NEW LAWS in Mexico covering important existing and new laws regarding:
1. Immigration law & by-law as it stands since implementation in 2012;
2. Custom law re importation of all goods of one who lives in Mexico.
3. Laws and by-laws on requirement for Insurances, local driver�s licenses and plates while driving in Mexico;
4. Fideicomiso Traslativo de Dominio contracts, the new decision by IRS USA, new legislation to abolish them; Legal Value of FTD contracts made by a Corridor Publico; FTD contract vs Escritura.
5. New ISR tax law re: requiring all RESIDENTS to declare, New Capital Gain Tax rules and New State tax upon selling real estate,
6. Property taxes discounts;
7. New law to prevent money laundering and suspected operations;
8. New requirements when one represents another by Mandate (POA) (This applies to everyone including real estate vendors);
9. New law on Responsibility re the environment;
10. New law on Universal pension;
11. New Law on unemployment insurance.
Speaker: LIC. JACQUES-EDOUARD BEAULNE, LL.B. D.D.N., Author, Law Professor, Lawyer and Speaker.

DianaT - 1-23-2014 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ncampion

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Thanks, that will be a good things. I wonder if he will also talk at all about the possible change in the property ownership laws.

A lot of territory to be covered and all of it is important!

Not Saturday

tehag - 1-23-2014 at 04:48 PM

Date: Sunday, Jan. 26th,
Hour: 2 PM at HOTEL LORETO BAY GOLF RESORT AND SPA
The conference has a 2 hour duration plus a one hour period for Q&A. Limited seating, Each person /couple will receive via e-mail an admission number.
Cost: 15.00 US$ / Single; 25.00 US$ / Couple.
200 Pesos / single; 337. Pesos / couple
Payment at entrance.

DavidE - 1-23-2014 at 05:02 PM

The ones I like best are the proposed federal tax initiatives to assess a 6% IVA on all ATM transactions with extraneous bank cards and a 4% IVA on deposits made in a Mexican bank with foreign funds.

Just for the single syllable crowd, these are proposals that are being discussed in the vast halls of Hacienda (SAT SHCP) in Mexico City. It does not mean they will be enacted EVER.

THE MOST FEARED TERRORISTS ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH

An Iraqi with an AK 47
A Chechen with an armload of dynamite
An Afghan with grenades
A man dressed in a suit and tie carrying a briefcase with a SHCP logo on it.

bajagrouper - 1-23-2014 at 05:08 PM

On another message board from Mainland Mexico auto to be nationalized must be no later than 2005 and NAFTA approved vehicle.....

Many cars have been confiscated in and around the Puerto Vallarta area .........

Sweetwater - 1-23-2014 at 08:37 PM

Woa,

The TVIP issue is why I'm here. Are there current changes?

I'm headed south on motos in 4 weeks, no plans for a TVIP on 2008 motos at this point.

rts551 - 1-24-2014 at 12:07 PM

INto the Mainland or Baja

Hook - 1-24-2014 at 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
The ones I like best are the proposed federal tax initiatives to assess a 6% IVA on all ATM transactions with extraneous bank cards and a 4% IVA on deposits made in a Mexican bank with foreign funds.

That would create an exodus of foreign income that would be staggering.

And all because Mexico can't get it together to collect income tax because so much of the economy exists on the gray or black market. And because Mexicans don't take government bureaucracy seriously 'cause there is always someone low on the enforcement ladder that can be bribed into ignoring them.

Notice how most all the recent and proposed changes/enforcements to tax laws are targeted at non-nationals? So very politically easy. Even the leftists in Mexico love it.

I'm sure there are foil hatters out there that must see this as more preliminaries for the introduction of the NERO, or whatever it's supposed to be called. Get the rich, extranjeros screaming for change and present them with the solution; the NERO.

OK, now I'm starting to sound like Cappy.....must be this cheap Russian aluminum foil flooding the markets. :biggrin:

[Edited on 1-24-2014 by Hook]

DavidE - 1-24-2014 at 03:05 PM

This is what happens when you arm a typewriter carbon copy bureaucratic society with computers with databases. Take a look at what's happening with pleasure craft on the

http://www.latitude38.com

Website, the "Lectronic Latitude".

My "source" is a friend. I gave a blood oath promise to never so much as give a hint as to his identity. He is a Delagado Federal and not here on the peninsula. "He" and I converse on the telephone a few times a month. He is a progressive and he is honest. I know that for a fact by his standard of living. Deeply religious - he loathes corruption and knows the owner of Farmacias Similares. If it weren't for the fact he is top dog in his state he would have been gone long ago. He knows where a lot of skeletons are buried and so has a precarious existence. He is also astute with knowledge outside his agency. He gnashes his teeth with the incompetence exhibited by Mexico.

But I fear, really fear the Partidad Instituto Estupido is going to come down hard as hell to scrounge yet more revenue. The PAN tried to impose a tax on groceries and medicine and they nearly got lynched (a not insignificant reason why the lost the election, the other being having a woman as president would outrage the macho legislature, christ they might have even enacted federal law to stop wife beating).

xxxxx told me the midnight oil is burning in D.F. about how to levy taxes on the privileged outlaws on the Baja peninsula. Gringos have money. So let's separate the wheat from the chaff - two thousand a month AFTER taxes minimum to stay in Mexico full time. Excelsior quoted a bunch of drunk senadores in Cantcun ("Screw the gringos, let them come, dump a hundred thousand pesos in a week and then get them the hell out of Mexico").

If I weren't a citizen, and had an extraneous automobile, I sure as hell would consider getting FRONTERA plates on it, right away. When the time comes to "adjust" FRONTERA to NACIONAL a person would stand a chance of not losing their butt. A prime 4X4 with national plates is worth a fortune. The time is coming outside the border zone when a car with foreign plates will pass through a reten. The driver damned well better have a valid driver license that agrees with nationality. A car permit is only good as long as the FMM is valid. Most people will be paying the 400 dollar Banjercito deposit plus a forty dollar Aduana (SHCP) fee.

When I read how little percentage wise Mexico (the capitol) regards the importance of tourism (as compared to mining, manufacturing and agriculture) I thought to myself (oooh shi.....). When the movie star and her husband took the keys to Los Pinos, I knew things were going to get dicey. The dinosaurs are back and they require lots and lots of green blood.

Paula - 1-24-2014 at 04:23 PM

Here is a link to the website for the lawyer giving the presentation in Loreto:

http://can-am-mex.com/

apple - 1-24-2014 at 05:08 PM

Jacques-Edouard Beaulne = Fast Eddy who was banned from Baja Nomads
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=47463

He also hosted a similar seminar in La Paz recently. Sounds like he's travelling around the Baja Sur stirring the rumor pot and creating fear. Like a doctor spreading illness and selling the cure.
He doesn't strike me as a particularly trustworthy fellow...

luv2fish - 1-24-2014 at 08:22 PM

I see a good ole revolution coming to a baja town near you. Panasonic is due to close in March and lay off 6000 people in TJ.
And that is atop of the 2000 people allready out of work because of 4 others that have closed thanks to the new Taxation. I hope we dont start seeing the great human waves running north on I 5.
http://www.el-mexicano.com.mx/informacion/noticias/1/3/estat...

Hook - 1-26-2014 at 05:41 AM

Update on nationalizing cars: you'd better HOPE the free zone designation holds.

Several brokers along the Mexican border are reporting that the Mexican govt. has initiated a hiatus in importing/nationalizing NAFTA eligible cars. Supposedly, there are new rules coming shortly that will once again institute a narrow build-year range for importing. There are conflicting reports from brokers that it will be a hard no-older-than-five-years OR ten years.

This could once again be important for Permanente card holds who are precluded from driving foreign plated vehicles and are not allowed to be issued TIPs. Still unclear if this affects Permanente holders in the free zones but that confiscation of vehicles in the Cabo area maybe makes it more clear. :wow:

This does not affect the issuance of TIPs. But I found something interesting on the excellent yucalandia site. IF you have a TIP and your vehicle is stolen in Mexico, you are forced to pay 40% of the cost of importing the vehicle, as determined by Aduana. Otherwise, you will not be able to have a TIP issued for another vehicle.

Sure hope the free zone exemption lasts for a number of reasons. I am becoming more and more leery of reverting to a Permanente when my Temporal is up this year. It's gonna be cheaper and easier to go back to the FMM/FMT/Visitante/whatever it's called this year and just get a TIP each year and return it.

chuckie - 1-26-2014 at 07:02 AM

Another one of the potential unforseen circumstances which made me decide to stay Temporal. I am giving that up as well when I leave in April. Going back to a 6 month FMM or whatever the terminology is or will be.

Hook - 1-26-2014 at 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
Another one of the potential unforseen circumstances which made me decide to stay Temporal. I am giving that up as well when I leave in April. Going back to a 6 month FMM or whatever the terminology is or will be.

IF we assume that the free zones will go away, then one will be forced to return to the border to turn in and renew their TIP and get a refund on their "bond". The TIP will only last as long as the length of the FMM. That could be a real hardship on persons living a fair distance from the border.

And the vehicle issued the TIP must accompany them. You cant just drive the paperwork and the scrapped off sticker up to the border and renew. I have read of persons one day late with turning it in and losing the bond. Imagine if you're vehicle is suddenly down for repairs as your bond comes due. Bye, bye bond.

What Aduana REALLY needs to do is put in a procedure for those with Temporals to be able to turn in their TIPs w/o having to drive to the border. That doesnt exist right now.

By the time this administration gets through with squeezing us ex-pats for every centavo, Mexico is going to have lost much of it's retirement allure.

Central America is looking better and better........

mtgoat666 - 1-26-2014 at 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook

Quote:

i thought the "T" in TIP meant "temporary." if you need a car in mexico full time for multiple years, it seems to be the use is closer to definition of "permanent."

durrelllrobert - 1-26-2014 at 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by prt328
I guess it's more than a rumor now. Baja Insider reports over 50 U.S. cars were confiscated at the Cabo airport because they were not imported and were owned by Permanent Residents. I guess I'll have to get my South Dakota car imported!

Worse than that is I drove my RV down (with Calif. plates) and want to get it back home in May. Does that mean I have to import it now and export it when I bring it back to the States??? Assuming it doesn't get impounded along the way!

Always something to keep us busy....

Here's the Baja Insider article (I guess it's okay to link to it?)

http://bajainsider.com/baja-business/importingregisteringveh...

OK, I can understand how/why "THEY" can target foreign plated cars at the airport but how would they know that the owner had a Permanente INM status vs. Temporal or FMM?

gnukid - 1-26-2014 at 10:22 AM

Far more likely the old policy will go away toward a more flexible universal policy for Mexican/Candian/American transnationals.

DaliDali - 1-26-2014 at 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Far more likely the old policy will go away toward a more flexible universal policy for Mexican/Candian/American transnationals.

I like it....
Something along the lines of "a foreigner can operate his/her foreign plated vehicle with the payment of nominal "permission to operate" fees paid yearly or bi-annually at a local bank office. These fees will align with current annual renewal fees imposed on National plated vehicles.
After the fees are paid, a window sticker denoting compliance will be issued at the nearest Judicial office or office of the Federal Police.
These stickers will allow the use of said vehicle to be operated within the entire republic of Mexico for the validity term denoted on the window sticker.

DaliDali - 1-26-2014 at 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatch

Quote:

Originally posted by DaliDali

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Far more likely the old policy will go away toward a more flexible universal policy for Mexican/Candian/American transnationals.

Is this just wishful thinking or is there anything out there to think this might be a realistic outcome?

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for logic to be applied to government regulations....

says the ex-government employee.

Pure wishful.......no breath holding here.
Far be it from me to even suggest a "government" can implement a simple and effective regulation.

measomsan - 1-26-2014 at 12:37 PM

Been down sense July. Been to airport many many times. Have heard no one speak of car grab there. The Feds are there all the time now. I have a new F J that I drove down from Texas. This is corn fusing to me. I use to have a AZ car here and changed it into Mexico plates. It was older. I got and have a Mx DL. I used it when driving that car. Used my Tx DL when driving my US car

So I'm not sure what to do at this point. Next year I can be perm resident. They are taking a bit of the fun out of being here. Maybe just use drivers for the airport run. Can the local police also jack you up on this? Or is it just Feds ?

dasubergeek - 1-26-2014 at 04:21 PM

The entire Republic of Mexico, except for the DF and those parts of Edomex that have the "hoy no circula" program in place... good luck figuring out which days you're allowed to drive!

prt328 - 1-26-2014 at 05:22 PM

measomsan - From what I understand you can still import A car BEFORE you go permanent but not after. One per person I guess.

I think you are going to see a bunch of US plated cars owned by permanents for sale soon....bounty for the temps and FMMS!

apple - 1-26-2014 at 06:53 PM

Anybody go to the "seminar" in Loreto today?

prt328 - 1-27-2014 at 07:31 PM

The part that is confusing/frustrating is that the Baja Borders are still not issuing TIPS nor requiring them - and I think that is the key to this madness. Once they do so things may get a little different and the "rules" may be a little clearer but who knows? I'm getting a bit nervous about my South Dakota plates since I'm sure they have figured out most of those never leave....

Help

Lengua - 1-27-2014 at 07:53 PM

So , were totally confused. We have a truck stored in San Jose del cabo with Oregon plates. We fly to Cabo and drive North to La Paz for our vacations.We are not residents and are exploring Baja . We have spent time in Loreto , Santa Rosalia and other places. Our boat is in La Paz and has a TIP. Does the truck need a TIP? we do not own a home and I have a Oregon DL ,

dasubergeek - 1-27-2014 at 09:21 PM

You do not need a TIP. The entire Baja peninsula is TIP-free, as is the state of Sonora as far as the inspection station 5 km north of Vicam (just outside Cd. Obreg�n).

There has been absolutely zero actual news about any kind of TIP program for Baja. Were there to be any such thing, all the newspapers would report it, and as yet, nada con nadita.

You DO need an FMM�a tourist card�for the part of the peninsula south of Maneadero, but if you fly into Los Cabos airport, you'll receive one or purchase one (depending whether you fly from the US or from Tijuana). Theoretically this includes San Felipe. Do a search for the latest reports on who's inspecting where.

[Edited on 1-28-2014 by dasubergeek]

MitchMan - 1-28-2014 at 08:41 AM

There is all this "noise" about confiscation of US plated vehicles owned and driven by Residente Permanentes in Baja, all of it third party reports and hearsay. So far NO ONE has reported first hand info of a confiscation with event specific information or even a confiscation actually witnessed. The article mentioned in the beginning of this thread said a "clean and exact" 50 vehicles were confiscated in Cabo. Not 49, not 51 or 53 or 47. Statistically, what is the probability of an even "50" being the actual number? Furthermore, the article seemed to be more of a promotion for services offered than a news report.

Often times when you also read interpretations rendered by attorneys about impending policy and law in Baja, it is always a "worst case scenario" which serves to create fear and insecurity which induces people to pay for and consult attorneys for guidance in these "dangerous times" for every little thing.

While I am concerned about possible confiscations and while I do believe that I possess enough info on the matter to actually, technically conclude that the Mexican government does currently have the authority thru existing law to confiscate US plated vehicles owned and operated in Baja by Residente Permanentes, I believe it is not currently their actionable policy to do so. Especially since I have not heard of any first hand reports of an actual confiscation in Baja.

But, I do have my ear to the ground on this matter.

gnukid - 1-28-2014 at 10:28 AM

The article is BS promotion. Baja is TIP free and PR may drive US plated vehicles in Baja and store vehicles in their home. Confiscations of vehicles in Baja may be associated with falsified papers, no plates, infractions etc... There is a multa and you can pick up the car.

People who have US vehicles without registration, no plates or other registration issues can use these services to become legal in some form, with circulation plates, SD plates or other options.

[Edited on 1-28-2014 by gnukid]

DavidE - 1-28-2014 at 11:30 AM

Stop in any office of ADUANA at the border. These guys are easy to talk to. They're going to tell you that only extraneous with legal residency or immigration permission are allowed to legally keep a motor vehicle with extraneous license plates in the country ANYWHERE. Even 2" from the international border.

So when an extraneous leaves Mexico without the motor vehicle, it's permission to remain in the country becomes null and void.

Any Aduanero at any office of Aduana, it does not have to be at the frontera, ask in Guerrero Negro, Santa Rosalia, the airport in Loreto, La Paz, Cabo San Loco. Ask the question. CAN A PERSON DEPART MEXICO WITHOUT THE VEHICLE?

There, you will get the correct information.

capitolkat - 1-28-2014 at 03:28 PM

Well- I read all the stuff that Eddy was selling and one of the things he was selling was a way to take your car to the border and bring it back after importing it for you. Mucho dinero for Eddy. So I went to the guy who handled my RP paperwork who is a former immigrado employee. He confirmed there was nothing at immigrado, or the local aduana here in La Paz requiring a foreign vehicle being driven by a RP holder to be imported.

I asked him the same questions before I went for the RP and when this storm of rumors arose I went back and asked him to check again. He again confirmed that there was no requirement to import for RP holders and that BAja remains a free zone.

So I read the blog that Eddy provided and it's his interpretation of the National law on imported possessions requires cars to also be imported. No other attorney in La Paz has confirmed his opinion and his opinion conveniently provides a way to provide a service to help you import the vehicles at a very high price. Eddy didn't get the nickname "fast Eddy" because he played pool in the movie.

Alm - 2-2-2014 at 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soulpatchI do have concerns for a trailer I have parked in the middle of nowhere in baja.... that thing ain't going anywhere..... I'd rather see it burned to the ground than have it affect my immigration status.

There are many of those. Since it is parked or stored - not driven, and likely stored on somebody's private land - the rules for license plates should be different from those on the road. At least, they are different in other countries. I think such trailers will be the very last target when and if big changes will come.