I finished my smoker project and am now looking for a new project. The propane truck came last week and filled my 500 liter tank and it cost me 2043
pesos. The only things I use propane for are the stove, 10 gallon hot water heater and to refill my small barbecue 20 liter tanks. I am guessing that
of the 245 liters that I had to buy this last refill, 80% of that was used to keep that 10 gallons of water hot. I would imagine that a solar water
system should work well down here, since we get lots of sunshine. I have looked into the idea for an hour or so (not much I know) and have come up
with a preliminary plan. It looks like since it never freezes down here that I can put together a pretty simple system. First I need a solar water
heating panel, then a differential temperature controller with the appropriate temperature sensors, a water circulation pump, and finally the copper
pipe, fittings, and insulation to put it all together. I am going to use my existing water heater as my storage tank, the controller will turn the
circulation pump on and off to circulate the water from the tank to the panel. One of my neighbors has a used water heating panel he said I could
have. My plan is to set the temp on the water heater thermostat low so that on cloudy days the gas will turn on and keep the water warm enough to
shower. The solar (on sunny days) should keep the water in the tank higher than the temp setting on the thermostat so the burner should not turn on.
Does anyone else have a system up and running and does my proposed system sound like it will work. Am I missing anything?
Thanks in advance for any help.
LarryBigWooo - 3-12-2014 at 09:28 AM
We have a solar water heating system similar to what you are talking about. A controller with temperature probes in the solar collectors, and on the
water heater measure the difference in temperature between them. When the solar collectors are 15 degrees hotter than the tank water, the pump turns
on and begins circulating water. The pump is a solar pump connected to a small solar panel
We rarely use propane to heat water, and we're on the Pacific side. In December/January if it's really cold, or when there's some high clouds, the
water may only get to 105 degrees, so we bump it up a bit with the water heater in the evening, but for the most part the collectors get the water
plenty hot.
I'm not creative enough to build one myself, so I bought a pre-packaged system, but I did learn quite a bit by installing it.
A couple things to keep in mind:
You will need a larger storage tank/water heater to store enough hot water so it doesn't cool off as you take showers, do dishes etc.
We have a 75 gallon water heater. In the winter, on a clear day the water is around 113-116 degrees. With light clouds it will be around 105. In
the summer it's always PLENTY hot.
Make sure you controller has an upper limit adjustment, especially if you have a small tank, or you may heat the water beyond the relief valve crack
setting in the summer.
You need a bleeder valve on the return side of the collector loop to bleed out the air when you charge the system.
Insulate all the incoming and outgoing lines to the collectors. In the winter the cold block can rob a lot of heat from the lines.
If you have a water filtration system on your house, put ball valves on both the outgoing and return collector lines near the water heater. If you
need to shut off the water to change the filters, you can shut the ball valves on the collector lines to keep them from draining. If you don't have
the valves, when you change a filter, a little water drains from the loop and forms an air bubble which will cause the pump to cavitate. You'll have
to bleed the line again when you're done. The ball valves also keep the loop from draining if you have to do any maintenance in the plumbing system.
If you want any pictures, U2U me your email and I'll send you some photos of the install.
[Edited on 3-12-2014 by BigWooo]bajagrouper - 3-12-2014 at 09:31 AM
You could do a passive system where the panel is lower than the storage tank.
you could use black plastic hose coiled on your roof instead of a panel, on a stand place the storage tank on its side, that way the hot water from
the hose rises up and is stored in the tank until needed...google " passive hot water solar systems" good luck......BigWooo - 3-12-2014 at 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by bajagrouper
You could do a passive system where the panel is lower than the storage tank.
you could use black plastic hose coiled on your roof instead of a panel, on a stand place the storage tank on its side, that way the hot water from
the hose rises up and is stored in the tank until needed...google " passive hot water solar systems" good luck......
I did A LOT of research before installing out system and I found that passive systems are perfect if you want to heat a small amount of water for a
single shower/sink, but if you want to heat water for a larger home the only way to heat a sufficient amount of water is to use a pump system.dtbushpilot - 3-12-2014 at 10:15 AM
We have a solar hot water system at our house in Buena Vista. It has an 80 gallon tank and a separate gas water heater as a back up. We lit and used
the gas heater once to make sure it worked but haven't needed to use it since. It has worked well for us, plenty of hot water year round.
It was installed by Solstice Solar of Baja http://solsticesolarofbaja.com/ . Skip is very professional and did a great job, he also installed a solar heating system for the pool. We have
been happy with everything so far....OCEANUS - 3-12-2014 at 12:47 PM
I had a student once who, after graduating, bought a surplus school bus for 2K and outfitted it into a surf bus that he drove all the way down to
Costa Rica. On the roof, he fabricated a water heating system constructed only out of 4" ABS pipe. When completed, it held a total of 50 gallons. A
hose bib at the top allowed him to fill it, the water was always warm when they needed it, not to mention that all of his showers were gravity fed! No
electricity whatsoever.
This design is rudimentary compared to the higher tech system using controllers and panels, but effective nonetheless.Whale-ista - 3-12-2014 at 01:14 PM
Passive solar is good for large amounts of water (e.g., swimming pools/spas) which need to stay warm all the time.
What about supplementing them with "on demand" style gas heaters that only operate when you actually need the hot water? Or using them alone if you
don't have a pool/spa/lots of people in the house?
Are those available as well? Has anyone ever tried to see if a combined system would work?capt. mike - 3-12-2014 at 02:53 PM
don't buy the vinyl or other PVC type plastic collectors - the UV wrecks them fast. Do not believe the stated life warranty of 10 years - pure junk.
Get an evacuated glass tube collector and a glycol medium to work a heat exchanger at the storage tank. Solar Panels Plus explains it all. You can
also do space heat off the same system, check out Daikin units. Solar cooling and heating.larryC - 3-12-2014 at 03:16 PM
Thanks everyone for the info and the suggestions, exactly what I need. This project will be an ongoing lesson for me into the other solar world. So if
what I am trying to accomplish doesn't happen the first time then I will keep throwing parts and money at it until it does work. I have more time than
I know what to do with.
Thanks again
Larrybledito - 3-12-2014 at 06:26 PM
how long between fill ups on propane ?bledito - 3-12-2014 at 06:35 PM
Above 70 °C (158 °F): Legionella dies almost instantly
At 60 °C (140 °F): 90% die in 2 minutes
At 50 °C (122 °F): 90% die in 80–124 minutes, depending on strain
At 48 to 50 °C (118 to 122 °F): Can survive but do not multiply
32 to 42 °C (90 to 108 °F): Ideal growth range
make sure your not being at risk.Cliffy - 3-12-2014 at 08:58 PM
My father- in -law was a solar engineer for a Sandia Labs in New Mexico for 2 decades. He built a solar water system for his house that worked very
well and it was cheap (so was he!). All it consisted of was an old water heater tank (without all the shell and insulation it, painted black, inside
an insulated black painted box (inside black) with a glass cover on top, sitting on the roof. The water circulated with the help of a very small
circulation pump to the house water heater. It worked great. How about a wind driven circulation pump? Now you also can make it work by mounting the
black tank lower than the house heater and water will circulate by gravity alone keeping the house heater warm all day long. Do a little research on
Google and you'll come up with a cost effective easy system. Do a little searching on "survivalist" websites and forums.Santiago - 3-13-2014 at 05:42 AM
I have a small (450ltr) black pila on my roof that gets sun all day and from April thru October I don't use the water heater at all. In fact, it's
often too hot in the warmer months when you want a slightly cooler shower. Maybe incorporate that into your design?
Do you have hot water to the kitchen? I have not done that yet but will on next trip and that may change things. We just heat a pot of water to wash
dishes.larryC - 3-13-2014 at 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by bledito
how long between fill ups on propane ?
I should have included that info, that 245 liters was 6 months of usage, so about 40 liters a month or about 2 months on a large standup Mexican
propane tank.
Santiago,
You've met Lois, do you think she would let me get away without plumbing hot water to the kitchen?Bob53 - 3-13-2014 at 09:07 AM
I've been considering a tankless water heating system. Any of you using one?monoloco - 3-13-2014 at 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob53
I've been considering a tankless water heating system. Any of you using one?
We have been using two Bosch
on demand heaters from Costco Mx for 5 years without one issue.Bob53 - 3-13-2014 at 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob53
I've been considering a tankless water heating system. Any of you using one?
We have been using two Bosch
on demand heaters from Costco Mx for 5 years without one issue.
Those are the ones I've been considering. I
can't seem to find those in the US.Santiago - 3-13-2014 at 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
Santiago,
You've met Lois, do you think she would let me get away without plumbing hot water to the kitchen?
No.
Bosch
bajaguy - 3-13-2014 at 09:57 AM
Carried in Ensenada at both Home Depot and COSTCO. Sometimes on sale at COSTCO for about 2100 pesos +/-
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob53
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob53
I've been considering a tankless water heating system. Any of you using one?
We have been using two Bosch
on demand heaters from Costco Mx for 5 years without one issue.
Those are the ones I've been considering. I
can't seem to find those in the US.
BajaDanD - 3-13-2014 at 09:57 AM
make sure you put a temperature balance valve on the hot side of water heater or you will get scolding hot water coming from the water heater.OCEANUS - 3-13-2014 at 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob53
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob53
I've been considering a tankless water heating system. Any of you using one?
We have been using two Bosch
on demand heaters from Costco Mx for 5 years without one issue.
Those are the ones I've been considering. I
can't seem to find those in the US.
I purchased the BOSCH on demand heater from the Home Depot in Ensenada two years ago and it is great. I did have to add a booster pump to increase the
pressure (even though I was pulling from a gravity fed pila), but once that issue was resolved it was all systems go.
The heaters sold in Mexico generally run on propane, whereas the ones in the U.S. (which are way more expensive) run on natural gas.Doug/Vamonos - 3-13-2014 at 04:35 PM
Hey Santiago. Your espanish lesson for the day is a pila is buried underground (usually concrete a la Beach Bob's) and a tanque is the plastic one we
mount of our roof. And yes, my espanish lessons are free!bledito - 3-13-2014 at 04:47 PM
so in all if i add/divide correctly is 26 US a month is that somewhat accurate?bledito - 3-13-2014 at 04:51 PM
what is the estimate cost for all the copper, insulation, pump, temp probes
and storage tanklarryC - 3-13-2014 at 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by bledito
what is the estimate cost for all the copper, insulation, pump, temp probes
and storage tank
I see where you are going with this, and I agree the payoff won't be real fast. So far I have found 2 Solar collectors for free, I found a hot water
circulation pump on ebay for $20 and a differential temperature controller with temp probes for $90. I looked in town today and I can get all the cpvc
pipe and fittings that I need for right at $100 so all in all I will have a little over $200 invested. I am not going to use a holding tank in the
beginning, I will let my water heater act as the holding tank and add a bigger one in the future if necessary. The monetary payoff is one
consideration but here in BoLA there is another problem in that the propane truck only comes once a month at the most and it is not uncommon for him
to miss a month or even 2. So if I can reduce my dependency on propane it makes life here a little less stressful. Then there is the need for me to
stay busy, I am always looking for another project. This one will keep me busy for a month or so and at $200 to $300 dollars that is cheap
entertainment.
Larrybledito - 3-13-2014 at 07:26 PM
i agree larry i like to tinker as well. restore stuff, what about just very slow cycling water through a garden hose liad on concrete surface like a
roof top just a minimal trickle rate i have noticed how hot the water comes out of the hose as i first turn it on.bledito - 3-13-2014 at 08:11 PM
there's a beach by the harbor in san jose that has blackish redish sand i and the wife tried walking across that barefoot what a mistake that was it
burned the bottoms of our feet. perhaps burying your pvc, copper coil or garden hose in 4 or 5 inches of it would increase the heat absorbtion rate as
well.Santiago - 3-13-2014 at 08:18 PM
They have cpvc in town now?larryC - 3-14-2014 at 12:26 PM
Bledito
Since I was given 2 solar hot water collectors I'll use them to heat the water. Seems pretty simple and a lot less expensive than trying to make
electricity with sun light.
Santiago,
Yes, I went to Pepe's Homecheapo and the big 2 story place in town and talked to Clint, both have the tube and most all the fittings in both 1/2" and
3/4". I checked on-line and cpvc is rated up to 200F, so should be good enough for what I am putting together.Edguero - 3-15-2014 at 05:44 PM
I've got an on demand water heater that runs on propane, 2 D batteries and a shure flow pump, works perfectly, surf the net, they are out there.wiltonh - 3-15-2014 at 06:29 PM
Last spring I was given two solar panels by someone who wanted them off their roof. They gave me a lot of piping, pumps and controllers. The price
was my help to remove the stuff and load it in a van. I am an electrical engineer so hot water plumbing was a learning experience.
We have a 450 gallon hot tub which I wanted to heat. The panels are on the ground next to my deck and the tub is about 24 inches higher on a deck. I
ended up purchasing some copper pipe and a few fittings but every thing else was from the salvaged system.
Soldering used copper pipe can be an issue. Connecting into the hot tub was also an issue. I had to cut and glue in a tee on one side of the pump
and replace a valve on the other side.
Now for the problems I ran into. I used PVC in several places because I could not find the fitting I needed in brass or copper. PVC is a bad choice
because the hot water system provides water at temperatures that make it soft and it will leak. I ended up removing all PVC from the system.
The controller could be set to start the pump when the water from the panel reached a certain amount above the tub temperature, and shut it off when
it reached a second temperature. This works fine but once the pump is shut off the water still flows because the panels are lower than the hot tub.
There were a number of days I had to add cold water to the tub so that we could use it. The max temperature in Oregon for a commercial tub is 103F.
We saw temperatures in the 115F range and that is way to hot for use. I tried a number of things to solve this issue but finally got very crude and
placed a piece of plywood over one panel during the hottest part of the year.
I placed a hot water temperature gauge at the top of my last panel and was quite surprised to see how it worked. When the sun got on the panel, the
temperature slowly increased to the tub temperature plus a few degrees. At that point the pump came on. The temperature gauge would go immediately
from something like 90F to 140F. If it was a warm day and a cloud went over the pump might shut off. When the sun came back with full force the
temperature would might go as high as 180F. If the tub was up to temperature all ready, the water would boil in the panel and the pipe connecting it
to the tub. At that point steam would come out of the pipe into the hot tub. It has boiled so hard, it sounded like elephants running across my
deck.
CPVC would work better but if there is any way you can get copper do it. Plan on all parts working at or near the boiling point of water. That way
you will not get a bad surprise.
Wiltonvolcano - 3-28-2014 at 06:36 AM
2 questions:
1)source of propane on demand that uses d batteries?
2) we have a "batch" style solar hot water heater....we have been building over several vacations...but it has not funtioned yet due to low pressure.
We are debating about dropping the project, or going on demand. We are adding a 12 v pump to the whole system...but the box is large and hard to
carry up the hill each time we vacation. (60's, trying to prepare for 70's)
question: is there a way the box could be located down near the house permanantly, and hot water would rise to another tank on the roof? to what
extent would it circulate on it's own and to what level would it rise?bajaguy - 3-28-2014 at 07:07 AM
Bosch heaters. Sold at Home Depot and Costco in Ensenada
Quote:
Originally posted by volcano
1)source of propane on demand that uses d batteries?
