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larryC
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Posts: 1495
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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Solar hot water system
I finished my smoker project and am now looking for a new project. The propane truck came last week and filled my 500 liter tank and it cost me 2043
pesos. The only things I use propane for are the stove, 10 gallon hot water heater and to refill my small barbecue 20 liter tanks. I am guessing that
of the 245 liters that I had to buy this last refill, 80% of that was used to keep that 10 gallons of water hot. I would imagine that a solar water
system should work well down here, since we get lots of sunshine. I have looked into the idea for an hour or so (not much I know) and have come up
with a preliminary plan. It looks like since it never freezes down here that I can put together a pretty simple system. First I need a solar water
heating panel, then a differential temperature controller with the appropriate temperature sensors, a water circulation pump, and finally the copper
pipe, fittings, and insulation to put it all together. I am going to use my existing water heater as my storage tank, the controller will turn the
circulation pump on and off to circulate the water from the tank to the panel. One of my neighbors has a used water heating panel he said I could
have. My plan is to set the temp on the water heater thermostat low so that on cloudy days the gas will turn on and keep the water warm enough to
shower. The solar (on sunny days) should keep the water in the tank higher than the temp setting on the thermostat so the burner should not turn on.
Does anyone else have a system up and running and does my proposed system sound like it will work. Am I missing anything?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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BigWooo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 579
Registered: 1-2-2007
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We have a solar water heating system similar to what you are talking about. A controller with temperature probes in the solar collectors, and on the
water heater measure the difference in temperature between them. When the solar collectors are 15 degrees hotter than the tank water, the pump turns
on and begins circulating water. The pump is a solar pump connected to a small solar panel
We rarely use propane to heat water, and we're on the Pacific side. In December/January if it's really cold, or when there's some high clouds, the
water may only get to 105 degrees, so we bump it up a bit with the water heater in the evening, but for the most part the collectors get the water
plenty hot.
I'm not creative enough to build one myself, so I bought a pre-packaged system, but I did learn quite a bit by installing it.
A couple things to keep in mind:
You will need a larger storage tank/water heater to store enough hot water so it doesn't cool off as you take showers, do dishes etc.
We have a 75 gallon water heater. In the winter, on a clear day the water is around 113-116 degrees. With light clouds it will be around 105. In
the summer it's always PLENTY hot.
Make sure you controller has an upper limit adjustment, especially if you have a small tank, or you may heat the water beyond the relief valve crack
setting in the summer.
You need a bleeder valve on the return side of the collector loop to bleed out the air when you charge the system.
Insulate all the incoming and outgoing lines to the collectors. In the winter the cold block can rob a lot of heat from the lines.
If you have a water filtration system on your house, put ball valves on both the outgoing and return collector lines near the water heater. If you
need to shut off the water to change the filters, you can shut the ball valves on the collector lines to keep them from draining. If you don't have
the valves, when you change a filter, a little water drains from the loop and forms an air bubble which will cause the pump to cavitate. You'll have
to bleed the line again when you're done. The ball valves also keep the loop from draining if you have to do any maintenance in the plumbing system.
If you want any pictures, U2U me your email and I'll send you some photos of the install.
[Edited on 3-12-2014 by BigWooo]
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
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Mood: happy and retired
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You could do a passive system where the panel is lower than the storage tank.
you could use black plastic hose coiled on your roof instead of a panel, on a stand place the storage tank on its side, that way the hot water from
the hose rises up and is stored in the tank until needed...google " passive hot water solar systems" good luck......
I hear the whales song
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BigWooo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 579
Registered: 1-2-2007
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
You could do a passive system where the panel is lower than the storage tank.
you could use black plastic hose coiled on your roof instead of a panel, on a stand place the storage tank on its side, that way the hot water from
the hose rises up and is stored in the tank until needed...google " passive hot water solar systems" good luck...... |
I did A LOT of research before installing out system and I found that passive systems are perfect if you want to heat a small amount of water for a
single shower/sink, but if you want to heat water for a larger home the only way to heat a sufficient amount of water is to use a pump system.
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3288
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Location: Buena Vista BCS
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We have a solar hot water system at our house in Buena Vista. It has an 80 gallon tank and a separate gas water heater as a back up. We lit and used
the gas heater once to make sure it worked but haven't needed to use it since. It has worked well for us, plenty of hot water year round.
It was installed by Solstice Solar of Baja http://solsticesolarofbaja.com/ . Skip is very professional and did a great job, he also installed a solar heating system for the pool. We have
been happy with everything so far....
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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OCEANUS
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 10-11-2008
Location: Dana Point; L.A. Bay
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I had a student once who, after graduating, bought a surplus school bus for 2K and outfitted it into a surf bus that he drove all the way down to
Costa Rica. On the roof, he fabricated a water heating system constructed only out of 4" ABS pipe. When completed, it held a total of 50 gallons. A
hose bib at the top allowed him to fill it, the water was always warm when they needed it, not to mention that all of his showers were gravity fed! No
electricity whatsoever.
This design is rudimentary compared to the higher tech system using controllers and panels, but effective nonetheless.
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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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Passive solar is good for large amounts of water (e.g., swimming pools/spas) which need to stay warm all the time.
What about supplementing them with "on demand" style gas heaters that only operate when you actually need the hot water? Or using them alone if you
don't have a pool/spa/lots of people in the house?
Are those available as well? Has anyone ever tried to see if a combined system would work?
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
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Location: Bat Cave
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don't buy the vinyl or other PVC type plastic collectors - the UV wrecks them fast. Do not believe the stated life warranty of 10 years - pure junk.
Get an evacuated glass tube collector and a glycol medium to work a heat exchanger at the storage tank. Solar Panels Plus explains it all. You can
also do space heat off the same system, check out Daikin units. Solar cooling and heating.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1495
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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Thanks everyone for the info and the suggestions, exactly what I need. This project will be an ongoing lesson for me into the other solar world. So if
what I am trying to accomplish doesn't happen the first time then I will keep throwing parts and money at it until it does work. I have more time than
I know what to do with.
Thanks again
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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bledito
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how long between fill ups on propane ?
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bledito
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Above 70 °C (158 °F): Legionella dies almost instantly
At 60 °C (140 °F): 90% die in 2 minutes
At 50 °C (122 °F): 90% die in 80–124 minutes, depending on strain
At 48 to 50 °C (118 to 122 °F): Can survive but do not multiply
32 to 42 °C (90 to 108 °F): Ideal growth range
make sure your not being at risk.
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Cliffy
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 12-19-2013
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My father- in -law was a solar engineer for a Sandia Labs in New Mexico for 2 decades. He built a solar water system for his house that worked very
well and it was cheap (so was he!). All it consisted of was an old water heater tank (without all the shell and insulation it, painted black, inside
an insulated black painted box (inside black) with a glass cover on top, sitting on the roof. The water circulated with the help of a very small
circulation pump to the house water heater. It worked great. How about a wind driven circulation pump? Now you also can make it work by mounting the
black tank lower than the house heater and water will circulate by gravity alone keeping the house heater warm all day long. Do a little research on
Google and you'll come up with a cost effective easy system. Do a little searching on "survivalist" websites and forums.
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
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I have a small (450ltr) black pila on my roof that gets sun all day and from April thru October I don't use the water heater at all. In fact, it's
often too hot in the warmer months when you want a slightly cooler shower. Maybe incorporate that into your design?
Do you have hot water to the kitchen? I have not done that yet but will on next trip and that may change things. We just heat a pot of water to wash
dishes.
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1495
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bledito
how long between fill ups on propane ? |
I should have included that info, that 245 liters was 6 months of usage, so about 40 liters a month or about 2 months on a large standup Mexican
propane tank.
Santiago,
You've met Lois, do you think she would let me get away without plumbing hot water to the kitchen?
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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Bob53
Senior Nomad
Posts: 661
Registered: 2-24-2014
Location: Fallbrook, CA & Bahia de los Angeles
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I've been considering a tankless water heating system. Any of you using one?
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob53
I've been considering a tankless water heating system. Any of you using one? |
We have been using two Bosch
on demand heaters from Costco Mx for 5 years without one issue.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Bob53
Senior Nomad
Posts: 661
Registered: 2-24-2014
Location: Fallbrook, CA & Bahia de los Angeles
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob53
I've been considering a tankless water heating system. Any of you using one? |
We have been using two Bosch
on demand heaters from Costco Mx for 5 years without one issue. |
Those are the ones I've been considering. I
can't seem to find those in the US.
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3512
Registered: 8-27-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by larryC
Santiago,
You've met Lois, do you think she would let me get away without plumbing hot water to the kitchen? |
No.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Bosch
Carried in Ensenada at both Home Depot and COSTCO. Sometimes on sale at COSTCO for about 2100 pesos +/-
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob53
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob53
I've been considering a tankless water heating system. Any of you using one? |
We have been using two Bosch
on demand heaters from Costco Mx for 5 years without one issue. |
Those are the ones I've been considering. I
can't seem to find those in the US. |
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BajaDanD
Senior Nomad
Posts: 745
Registered: 8-30-2003
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make sure you put a temperature balance valve on the hot side of water heater or you will get scolding hot water coming from the water heater.
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