BajaNomad

The Cheating Line

Osprey - 5-4-2014 at 04:50 PM

The Cheating Line


Some of this has appeared here before as bits and pieces of our Baja experience so please forgive the duplication. I was 58 and my wife was 54 when we retired, bought a house in Baja Sur 20 years ago. We both had worked in the insurance business in the west. Not being an Alpha (or even a beta) male I just muddled through the buying and moving process; paid $25k U.S. for a house, crawled through the closing and bank trust process, stumbled through the moving, visas, etc. just by doing what we were told to do by various regulators and advisors.

Can’t remember having any serious problems we couldn’t climb over or any really intractable people we couldn’t deal with. The place we bought was less than a fixer-upper – it had all the charm and character of a haunted outhouse but the price was right and after another $11k of fixing we had a livable place (a new bodega, new plumbing and electrical, a big concrete pila and 200 feet of decorative concrete walls and gates for security).

Before the remodel was finished we were taken advantage of, cheated by some local Mexicans. It stands out in our minds even today because it was the one and only time we had a problem.

As the new wall was going up, a pleasant little Mexican man with an orange van full of smiling kids stopped by to let us know he sold plastic household wares from his house in the village – he gave us a little hand drawn map to his house. A few days later we went there to buy a plastic garbage tub, tambo grande. He wasn’t at home but two of his many kids (not yet school age I suppose) were left to watch the place and they showed us his living room/warehouse full of plastic houseware. I found the tambo I needed and asked the price. The girl, the taller of the pair, said “Ochenta pesos.” I had the exact change and handed it to her and we turned to leave. They disappeared behind a blanket hung like a door into another room while we heard yips and screams and laughter from the kids.

Back at the house I found out what the yips were all about. On the bottom of the bin was a price sticker marked 60 pesos.

So I guess that’s my warning to you about Mexico. You can’t be too careful or you’ll be cheated at every turn. If it happened to us, it could happen to you. Out of defference to Soulpatch I will throw in with him to say buying a home in Mexico is not for everyone. The scary part for me is that after reading his family’s blogs it makes me shake and quiver at the thought of those millions of Mexico’s new immigrants from the U.S. and the rest of the globe who were afraid to buy, afraid of being cheated, who still come, who still live here (with millions more coming) in rentals, while facing all the bad things that happen to good people when they rent or lease on this side of the “Cheating line”, the U.S. Mexican border.

woody with a view - 5-4-2014 at 05:14 PM

thanks for the warning!

David K - 5-4-2014 at 05:19 PM

There is a price then there is a Gringo price... In Hawaii, the same thing but it is called a Haolie price!

Osprey - 5-4-2014 at 06:00 PM

David, are there two prices at stores, banks, gas stations, markets, two prices for beer and spuds and TVs and cars and etc? You another one who thinks he begins to get cheated just after he crosses the U.S. border from north to south? Et tu, Daveeed!

I suppose you would want a Mexican cementero, handyman, auto mechanic to charge the same to some almost starving Mexican neighbor as he would ask of any foreigner if you really hold that in your heart enough to air it here.

WTF?, over.







[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Osprey]

[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Osprey]

MMc - 5-4-2014 at 06:17 PM

I love the way you put the spin on things, thanks Osprey

CortezBlue - 5-4-2014 at 09:45 PM

I also think that most Mexicans, expect, to bargain. I have always found, even if the price is acceptable, you always have to offer less. I think it is built into the culture.

KaceyJ - 5-4-2014 at 09:59 PM

Osprey ,

I like your twisted honesty

Me thinks you and/or Pompano could make up the Sam L. Clemens of bcs.:lol:

Osprey - 5-5-2014 at 06:05 AM

Blue, I think you got Mexico confused with Bangladesh. Mexicans in my part of Baja think that gringos who want to haggle are simply cheap barrateros, not those visitors or new neighbors who are trying to fit in.

Marc - 5-5-2014 at 06:21 AM

My Spanish born father spoke Spanish with a distinct Castilian accent. That made him even more of a target. Mexicans hate Spaniards.

Osprey - 5-5-2014 at 07:12 AM

Thanks Lencho, I shouldn't be so surprised and disappointed by the fear and loathing sometimes thrown around on this board with the very real rainbow of ways people perceive Baja and its people. With well over 8,000 members now on the forum, I still bristle over how wide the spectrum is; how does one square trip reports by Nomads who make all of us proud by their appreciation of the culture, by the depth of their kindness (and that returned) and friendship with new acquaintance, with endless threads about bear spray and ways to maim or kill imagined robbers and murderers waiting in the shadows?

How can one balance the countless online mags and blogs and newsletters from those happily hunkered down in Baja and Mexico with all the talk of "Don't buy anything, bla bla bla" "Never do this, never to that, always get an attorney, lock your car, lock your house, lock your heart, etc?"

bajalearner - 5-5-2014 at 07:20 AM

That's the nature of "business". Starting when Adam sold Eve some overpriced vodka so she could make a c-cktail. :(:( And continuing when Eve sold Adam an overpriced apple-tini ;D;D

David K - 5-5-2014 at 07:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
David, are there two prices at stores, banks, gas stations, markets, two prices for beer and spuds and TVs and cars and etc? You another one who thinks he begins to get cheated just after he crosses the U.S. border from north to south? Et tu, Daveeed!

I suppose you would want a Mexican cementero, handyman, auto mechanic to charge the same to some almost starving Mexican neighbor as he would ask of any foreigner if you really hold that in your heart enough to air it here.

WTF?, over.







[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Osprey]

[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Osprey]


You confuse my observation as being some kind of approval for the two price system, it isn't. I am just surprised you seem unaware of its existence, that's all. It happens all over the world, I bet.

In Bahia de los Angeles maybe 12 years ago, I was charged a price for a tire repair... the next customer (a Mexican) inquired the shop owner how much for a tire repair and the owner (in Spanish) quoted him a lower price for the same thing. It is just a fact of life, I didn't feel insulted. Now, if I lived there instead of being a tourist on a vacation, I would have a chat with him perhaps?

Osprey - 5-5-2014 at 07:47 AM

David, perfectly understandable. I would charge you more. More than, oh, I don't know, almost anybody. Bet you wouldn't irrigate your cousin's place for the standard rate of a "phone in".

David K - 5-5-2014 at 07:57 AM

Cousin is not the same as countryman. Funny your comment... after I give so much for free to so many... happily, too.

As for my irrigation services, I have one price and it doesn't change if your home is in Rancho Santa Fe instead of Escondido.

msteve1014 - 5-5-2014 at 07:59 AM

The trick is to drive down in your new pick up full of expensive toys, and then tell everyone you meet how poor you are while you haggle over a dollar.

bajaguy - 5-5-2014 at 08:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by msteve1014
The trick is to drive down in your new pick up full of expensive toys, and then tell everyone you meet how poor you are while you haggle over a dollar.





:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Martyman - 5-5-2014 at 08:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
David, perfectly understandable. I would charge you more. More than, oh, I don't know, almost anybody. Bet you wouldn't irrigate your cousin's place for the standard rate of a "phone in".


LOL!

monoloco - 5-5-2014 at 09:00 AM

If it wasn't for cheating gringos the locals wouldn't own all those fancy cars and beachfront homes. :lol:

Caveat Emptor

MrBillM - 5-5-2014 at 09:51 AM

Saves on the Whine.

Having been introduced to the Mexican way (at Agua Caliente among other places) as a young child traveling to TJ in the '50s, the sharp manner of daily exchange was well-known long ago and I have NEVER been disappointed, unsettled or angry when encountering the Expected.

I've always been surprised at those who were caught surprised.

Osprey - 5-5-2014 at 10:07 AM

Once in Loreto 4 of us got two hotel rooms for a week, charged all our fishing trips, meals, booze, everything to the room. When we checked out the bill was 1,780,000 pesos and I paid with a smile = $560 bucks of extended paradise meant cheap thrills, again, in a country I grew to love no matter what the scam, the plan or the jam. Still feel the same.

Barry A. - 5-5-2014 at 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Saves on the Whine.

Having been introduced to the Mexican way (at Agua Caliente among other places) as a young child traveling to TJ in the '50s, the sharp manner of daily exchange was well-known long ago and I have NEVER been disappointed, unsettled or angry when encountering the Expected.

I've always been surprised at those who were caught surprised.


Exactly!!!!

Personally I never feel cheated when buying, either in Mexico or the USA. If the price is too much (taking everything into consideration) I don't buy. Sometimes, if I think the price is too low, I pay more, especially for a "service" in the outback.

This attitude keeps my blood pressure low, and my stress level manageable, resulting in a happy-camper. :spingrin:

Barry

Skipjack Joe - 5-5-2014 at 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
David, are there two prices at stores, banks, gas stations, markets, two prices for beer and spuds and TVs and cars and etc? You another one who thinks he begins to get cheated just after he crosses the U.S. border from north to south? Et tu, Daveeed!

I suppose you would want a Mexican cementero, handyman, auto mechanic to charge the same to some almost starving Mexican neighbor as he would ask of any foreigner if you really hold that in your heart enough to air it here.

WTF?, over.







[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Osprey]

[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Osprey]


You confuse my observation as being some kind of approval for the two price system, it isn't. I am just surprised you seem unaware of its existence, that's all. It happens all over the world, I bet.

In Bahia de los Angeles maybe 12 years ago, I was charged a price for a tire repair... the next customer (a Mexican) inquired the shop owner how much for a tire repair and the owner (in Spanish) quoted him a lower price for the same thing. It is just a fact of life, I didn't feel insulted. Now, if I lived there instead of being a tourist on a vacation, I would have a chat with him perhaps?


New vistors to baja almost always feel they are being cheated at every turn. In the late 90's I would bring fishermen to the resorts who would want to save a bit by shopping for beers at the tiendas. They often felt they were being robbed because they were being americans, charged a different price than the mexicans. When we would go to a restaurant he would lean over the table, wink at me, and knowlingly inform me that there was a different menu for the others. All this without really without any proof. "It just stands to reason". For a long time visitor it can really be embarassing. For one thing it spoils the mood as you sit down to eat. What a way to eat - with an air of suspicion.

The whole thing is very unhealthy really. You visit a country where you feel you are surrounded by enemies. There may even be a strain of racism in all this. Can you spell Don Sterling?

[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

Osprey - 5-5-2014 at 11:37 AM

Yeah Skip, you might be right. Whites might just hate brown people. That's probably what make em so suspicious. I always thought the two menus, two prices was because they gave us Whiteys, gringos, better food at a slightly higher price. Who knew?

willardguy - 5-5-2014 at 11:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
There is a price then there is a Gringo price... In Hawaii, the same thing but it is called a Haolie price!
well there is a price, then there's the gringo price. but they're at different stores. a local can eat the same lobster all day for a fraction of the gringo price, same goes for a bottle of beer. the only difference is the view!;)

Osprey - 5-5-2014 at 11:43 AM

That all makes for better commerce I suppose. Gringos pay more because they can, the restaurants stay open, families thrive. Makes you proud don't it Willard.

rts551 - 5-5-2014 at 11:46 AM

Thumbs up Igor!
Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
David, are there two prices at stores, banks, gas stations, markets, two prices for beer and spuds and TVs and cars and etc? You another one who thinks he begins to get cheated just after he crosses the U.S. border from north to south? Et tu, Daveeed!

I suppose you would want a Mexican cementero, handyman, auto mechanic to charge the same to some almost starving Mexican neighbor as he would ask of any foreigner if you really hold that in your heart enough to air it here.

WTF?, over.







[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Osprey]

[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Osprey]


You confuse my observation as being some kind of approval for the two price system, it isn't. I am just surprised you seem unaware of its existence, that's all. It happens all over the world, I bet.

In Bahia de los Angeles maybe 12 years ago, I was charged a price for a tire repair... the next customer (a Mexican) inquired the shop owner how much for a tire repair and the owner (in Spanish) quoted him a lower price for the same thing. It is just a fact of life, I didn't feel insulted. Now, if I lived there instead of being a tourist on a vacation, I would have a chat with him perhaps?


New vistors to baja almost always feel they are being cheated at every turn. In the late 90's I would bring fishermen to the resorts who would want to save a bit by shopping for beers at the tiendas. They often felt they were being robbed because they were being americans, charged a different price than the mexicans. When we would go to a restaurant he would lean over the table, wink at me, and knowlingly inform me that there was a different menu for the others. All this without really without any proof. "It just stands to reason". For a long time visitor it can really be embarassing. For one thing it spoils the mood as you sit down to eat. What a way to eat - with an air of suspicion.

The whole thing is very unhealthy really. You visit a country where you feel you are surrounded by enemies. There may even be a strain of racism in all this. Can you spell Don Sterling?

[Edited on 5-5-2014 by Skipjack Joe]

Pompano - 5-5-2014 at 11:53 AM

I agree, Igor.....in that I think it's just a matter of ignorance & inexperience.

Much of this misjudgment that first-time visitors (to Baja or anywhere) have of locals is based on ignorance at the outset. They are letting Hollywood, the press, or gossip form their judgments.

Then, like most frequent visitors to Baja, once you get to travel around and meet some locals, you will see that they are pretty much the same as folks are all over the world.

You-me-them. The sameness is remarkable. Only our imaginations will carry us to worlds that never were.

A Different Culture in the 3rd World.........

MrBillM - 5-5-2014 at 12:09 PM

Where the Good life is more of a competitive challenge.

Talking often to a stepson who had moved (he thought permanently) to the Philippines, he would relate the same situation (to a greater degree) making Mexico seem mild.

A close friend who lived for years in the Middle-East while working for IBM has a wealth of similar tales.

Sharp Dealing is considered normal.

And Fair.

sancho - 5-5-2014 at 01:12 PM

All of us have dealt with the Gringo price/Mex price,
I let it go if it is of little consequence, but I don't play the
role of Greenhorn Gringo. Back in the day, went into a beer deposito in Loreto, when all beer in Mex was very consistant
in price. Was a weekend, place was full of locals drinking,
put my 2 empty cases on the counter, which the guy
working ther quoted me 2x the price, I told him that wasn't
correct, the music stopped for a few seconds, all eyes on me,
deciphered some Spanish as he explained to anyone
he has the right to overcharge Gringos. Took the empties
out to the truck, was followed by one of the locals, who
apoligized for the rude behavior and directed me to a place
where that wouldn't happen. Got off the bus in La Paz,
the 1st taxi quoted $10 dlls to the Malecon, I knew it was
approx $3, took my bag out asked the next taxi the price
to the Malecon, $3. Was a slightly heated exchange between the 2, the first claiming it ok to gouge the Gringo

SlyOnce - 5-5-2014 at 03:10 PM

Thank God I have a young, sharp, college educated and yet street smart TJ novia to go into the stores and buy things.

Also, even if you don't have that, speaking Spanish, dealing fairly, not being a racist or ugly American, nor displaying obvious wealth will usually get you at least treated fairly. Don't be suspicious and don't overtip.

Keep in mind to the MX we gringos are all wealthy beyond their dreams, they think we can take endless money out of an ATM machine, and they think the Government pays us if we are out of work.

They also have no idea why our ex wife of 30 years gets 1/2 of the retirement check.

My girl is smart, but some of the things MXNs believe about Gringos blow my mind. They have little understanding of credit, house payments, college loans, car loans, 30 year mortgage, and so on. Not to mention a pension check.

sancho - 5-5-2014 at 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
"Sancho" posting in a thread about cheating, just shouldn't be ignored





I'm vague on Mex mythical lore, but isn't sancho sorta
of the benificary of lonely Esposas? As opposed to the
actual cheater? Sly, you do have a destinct competive
advanage over most of us

Marc - 5-5-2014 at 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalearner
That's the nature of "business". Starting when Adam sold Eve some overpriced vodka so she could make a c-cktail. :(:( And continuing when Eve sold Adam an overpriced apple-tini ;D;D

And then she charged him for sex.:lol::lol::lol: