BajaNomad - Are Sardinas Extinct ?

Are Sardinas Extinct ?

Cardon Man - 5-16-2014 at 03:28 PM

Every year there seems to be less and less sardina ( flat iron herring ) at the East Cape and Los Cabos. At present, there doesn't seem to be any reliable source of sardina anywhere between Cabo and La Paz. I assume this is the case all over the Sea of Cortez?
This downward trend seems to go way beyond any sort of natural cycle. It's been many many years...over a decade, since I've personally seen a "bumper crop" of sardina anywhere in Baja Sur.
What do you long time Sea of Cortez fishermen think? Why are the sardina gone? Will they ever come back?

vgabndo - 5-16-2014 at 03:33 PM

There was a big sardine harvest that went on for about a month in Bahia Asuncion. I don't know how it compared to other years, and I don't know how many tons they took, but the loaded boats bringing the fish to the beach were barely afloat.
There is another thread on the subject that you could search. BA was just lucky I think.

Osprey - 5-16-2014 at 03:46 PM

The Pacific sardine fishery stock is down 72% from normal for this decade. Science has yet to answer why but big seiners have more ready buyers now --- food pellets for aguaculture, fertilizer and THE BIG ONE: fish oil. In our neck of the woods the tuna farms do some damage close to shore since the netters must stay close to the farms. Nat. Geo says that a big 1,000 pound tuna headed for Dubai might have eaten 1,000,000 pounds of sardines (and what they eat - the total end product or bio-mass) to get to that weight/size to fetch the big bucks. Recent online report of activity about all that in La Paz says Arjona (of Arjona Marine?) is investing 18 million dollars in the farm just off shore at San Juan de la Costa. If East Capers are lucky, the seiners will keep filling up the receivers till all the sardines are gone, then, no more tuna, no more farm, the sardines will slowly come back and the whole process will start over. Learn to catch/buy/use caballitos, ballyhoo, jurellito, whatever like some of us local are doing. Caught some nice dorado today >>> the bait: barilette (skip and chunk bait). Never give up, never give in.

Cliffy - 5-16-2014 at 04:29 PM

I read/learned/saw how to use skip bait on dorado decades ago. Haven't thought about it in 30 years. Worked then should work now.

Whale-ista - 5-16-2014 at 07:32 PM

fyi Here's a link to a previous post about this story (historic and current sardine population changes)

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=72804

excerpt: One factor is a naturally occurring climate cycle known as the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, which in recent years has brought cold, nutrient-rich water to the West Coast. While those conditions have brought a boom in some species, such as market squid, they have repelled sardines.

If nature is responsible for the decline, history shows the fish will bounce back when ocean conditions improve. But without a full understanding of the causes, the crash is raising alarm.

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-sardine-crash-20140106,...

[Edited on 5-17-2014 by Whale-ista]

watizname - 5-16-2014 at 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
The Pacific sardine fishery stock is down 72% from normal for this decade. Science has yet to answer why but big seiners have more ready buyers now --- food pellets for aguaculture, fertilizer and THE BIG ONE: fish oil. In our neck of the woods the tuna farms do some damage close to shore since the netters must stay close to the farms. Nat. Geo says that a big 1,000 pound tuna headed for Dubai might have eaten 1,000,000 pounds of sardines (and what they eat - the total end product or bio-mass) to get to that weight/size to fetch the big bucks. Recent online report of activity about all that in La Paz says Arjona (of Arjona Marine?) is investing 18 million dollars in the farm just off shore at San Juan de la Costa. If East Capers are lucky, the seiners will keep filling up the receivers till all the sardines are gone, then, no more tuna, no more farm, the sardines will slowly come back and the whole process will start over. Learn to catch/buy/use caballitos, ballyhoo, jurellito, whatever like some of us local are doing. Caught some nice dorado today >>> the bait: barilette (skip and chunk bait). Never give up, never give in.

One of my best days ever was on chunks of barilette.
Always nice to start the day off with a barilette and save it for the chunks if you get into a school. :cool:

Skipjack Joe - 5-16-2014 at 11:05 PM

Aren't the barillette feeding on sardinas as well.

Mula - 5-17-2014 at 05:26 AM

Not about sardines, but something new.

Just got back from 4 days camping on the Concepcion Peninsula.

Arturo of Loreto's Arturo's Sportfishing has started shrimp farming in the bay.
Right now there are 3 pens. They get 20 day old shrimp from La Paz, put them in the pens and feed them for about 2 1/2 months and then harvest medium sized shrimp.

The plan is to have 60 or 70 of these pens over the next several years.

Osprey - 5-17-2014 at 05:32 AM

Skip, you know better than most how the chain of life goes in the sea with everything connected --- in this case when the uber important sardine fishery crashes the sea loses uncountable numbers of sea birds, fish and mammals who can't find a satisfactory substitute for their regular food fast enough. Some of those most effected won't or can't move away from where they regularly feed. It has been rumored the crash caused the major sea lion pup die off on California beaches recently (1600 pups?).

It's a crying shame that regulators grant permits for big tuna farms like the one close to La Paz without considering the staggering loss of local biomass.

Cardon Man - 5-17-2014 at 06:26 AM

Thanks for the input everyone. However, we seem to talking mostly about the Pacific Sardine. My question was regarding the flat iron herring aka "sardina" that was so commonly used by sport fishermen at East Cape, Los Cabos, and throughout the SOC. Are these falling prey to the tuna pens as well? It used to be very common to to see dense shoals of these baitfish along the shore. And they were almost always available to the sport fleet for live bait. From what I read/hear/see there hasn't been any appreciable amount of "sardina" available for bait at Los Cabos or EC for quite some time.

Cardon Man - 5-17-2014 at 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mula

Arturo of Loreto's Arturo's Sportfishing has started shrimp farming in the bay....The plan is to have 60 or 70 of these pens over the next several years.

That's not a great sign is it? A sportfishing guy needs to get into aquaculture to make extra pesos?

Osprey - 5-17-2014 at 06:37 AM

Cardon, we have not strayed from your query --- we are talking about sardines here in East Cape and the whole Eastern Pacific ocean. No herring around either but private boats usually did not buy them because the scales play havoc with bait pumps. No mackerela around right now either. There is relatively no sport bait and you have to adapt.

I made up some 2 inch hoochies to try for green jacks and when that doesn't work I use Subikis or Lucky Joes with a small weight and slow troll thru any nervous water, feeding or mating fish on the surface, around any rock shoals, wherever I've seen bait along the shore. In open water I troll fast with 4 to 5 inch hoochies for bonito or barilette. Mexicans rely on all these things and more --- it's not a game for them, it's catch or go without dinner.

I'm going to look in every fishing nook and cranny in my bodega for small, attractive jigs and feathers and shiny things that I haven't had to use in years --- it's adapt and improvise time down here for sure.

Cardon Man - 5-17-2014 at 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Mula
They get 20 day old shrimp from La Paz, put them in the pens and feed them for about 2 1/2 months and then harvest medium sized shrimp.

What are they feeding them?

Probably feed pellets made of sardina.

DJL - 5-17-2014 at 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cardon Man
Thanks for the input everyone. However, we seem to talking mostly about the Pacific Sardine. My question was regarding the flat iron herring aka "sardina" that was so commonly used by sport fishermen at East Cape, Los Cabos, and throughout the SOC. Are these falling prey to the tuna pens as well? It used to be very common to to see dense shoals of these baitfish along the shore. And they were almost always available to the sport fleet for live bait. From what I read/hear/see there hasn't been any appreciable amount of "sardina" available for bait at Los Cabos or EC for quite some time.

You are correct , Pacific Sardines and Flatiron Herring (the East Cape Sardina) are two different critters .

As I understand it , the Pacific Sardines have been so over-fished in Mag Bay , it now takes twice as many to make a pound than it did 10 years ago .

The Flatiron Herring (Sardina) of the Cortez ? I've only been gone to Baja since 2005 , so I am not a good indicator .... but the ONLY time I ever saw them abundant and in mixed sizes (1-4 inches) was 2008 . I see little tiny ones every Winter (down to around 3/4 inch long ... a couple of Eyes on a Toothpick !) and still fish a Sardina imitation fly , but always in small (under 2 1/2 inch) size .

A Friend , who is a prominent Guide down there .... says it's been over 10 years since he has seen healthy Sardina populations at the E.C. .

D.~

Extinct?

durrelllrobert - 5-17-2014 at 10:39 AM

I just bought a can at Walmart for 85 pesos :lol:

Osprey - 5-17-2014 at 10:41 AM

D, that guy would be a fly fishing guide I suppose. If he's a beach/moto guide he knows all about the bait you can see from shore. The net throwers who make the whole sportfishing charter business happen would be better sources. In the 20 years I've bought bait here I can't call the last decade a time of little bait/sardines.

Udo - 5-17-2014 at 10:45 AM

So glad you are finally catching some worthwhile fish, George!

Just curious, if you go out to catch sardines or mackerel, how do you catch them? I know you can't use the weighted nets that you throw over the boat (I think Leonardo is allowed, however). But do you use a zubeke rig, or something else?

Quote:

[Edited on 5-17-2014 by Udo]

Osprey - 5-17-2014 at 11:00 AM

Gringos are not allowed to throw nets. Mexican bait guys throw nets for surface fish only because the nets are designed to collapse just under the surface -- they are after halfbeacks (ballyhoo) or sardines.

I use the smaller lures mentioned in my posted reply above to Cardon man when mackerela are not present on the bottom or mid water.

You try it all when it's slow -- yesterday we gave up skip bait for mid sized feathers, got one dorado on and kept it in the water till we got a second on barilette chunk bait. It's always a "Whatever seems to work" world out there now.

DJL - 5-17-2014 at 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
D, that guy would be a fly fishing guide I suppose. If he's a beach/moto guide he knows all about the bait you can see from shore. The net throwers who make the whole sportfishing charter business happen would be better sources. In the 20 years I've bought bait here I can't call the last decade a time of little bait/sardines.

Yes , you would be correct , Sir - a FF guide who does the beach .

I'm in the same situation - beach only . There could be CLOUDS of bait 200 yards out , unless it was under attack I wouldn't know it was there . Even the tiny ones seem uncommon (then again , since I'm usually there only in Winter , maybe that's all that is in close ?).

There does still seem to be a lot of Mullet around whenever I'm there , usually at the Marina .

D.~

Udo - 5-17-2014 at 03:17 PM

See!

That's why I save all your e-mails, George...I learn so much from what you put down on paper.

No matter what it is!

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Gringos are not allowed to throw nets. Mexican bait guys throw nets for surface fish only because the nets are designed to collapse just under the surface -- they are after halfbeacks (ballyhoo) or sardines.

I use the smaller lures mentioned in my posted reply above to Cardon man when mackerela are not present on the bottom or mid water.

You try it all when it's slow -- yesterday we gave up skip bait for mid sized feathers, got one dorado on and kept it in the water till we got a second on barilette chunk bait. It's always a "Whatever seems to work" world out there now.

55steve - 5-21-2014 at 08:14 AM

Some current info on this:

http://www.wonews.com/Blog.aspx?id=2689&AuthorID=96087&a...

Cardon Man - 5-21-2014 at 08:59 AM

It seems unlikely that the small scale bait pangas are to entirely to blame for the disappearance of the sardina ( flat iron herring ). However, they must have taken significant annual harvests over the years.
One thing is certain, any concentration of sardina along the shore is quickly netted and sold to the sportfishing fleet.

Osprey - 5-21-2014 at 09:06 AM

Add one more thing to the Blame List: sports writers who lionize the bait guys and their guild when they need something to fill space, then when a sea change leaves them at risk and they must improvise to survive, they become "Bait Bandits".

blackwolfmt - 5-21-2014 at 09:37 AM

must be this??

http://deepseanews.com/2011/03/dead-sardines-in-california-had-eaten-toxic-algae/

Osprey - 5-21-2014 at 09:52 AM

Great find Wolf. Another stark example of the interconnectiveness in nature. Probably the agent in fresh water that causes whirling disease in trout feeds other healthy things and makes them alive to thrive. What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gooser

Skipjack Joe - 5-21-2014 at 06:24 PM

Quote:

New data from Dr. David Caron’s lab at University of Southern California found that the gut contents of the dead sardines contained high levels of domoic acid, a powerful neurotoxin produced by the diatom (microscopic plant) Pseudo-nitzschia

Sounds plausible. Nitzsche had that effect on me.

Quote:

the fish might have eaten the toxic algae offshore, become disoriented, swum into the harbor, used up all the oxygen (a million fish use a LOT of oxygen), and died.

B.S.

Cardon Man - 5-22-2014 at 07:16 AM

For more info check out the author's facebook page ( Gary Graham ). There's some really interesting comments posted under the link to the WON article "Tuna pens, sardine, sardina and the blame game".

DJL - 5-22-2014 at 09:15 AM

Although not related to East Cape Sardina/Flatiron Herring ....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=871301512884825

Depressing stuff .

D.~