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Cardon Man
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Location: Thetis Bank
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Are Sardinas Extinct ?
Every year there seems to be less and less sardina ( flat iron herring ) at the East Cape and Los Cabos. At present, there doesn't seem to be any
reliable source of sardina anywhere between Cabo and La Paz. I assume this is the case all over the Sea of Cortez?
This downward trend seems to go way beyond any sort of natural cycle. It's been many many years...over a decade, since I've personally seen a "bumper
crop" of sardina anywhere in Baja Sur.
What do you long time Sea of Cortez fishermen think? Why are the sardina gone? Will they ever come back?
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vgabndo
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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There was a big sardine harvest that went on for about a month in Bahia Asuncion. I don't know how it compared to other years, and I don't know how
many tons they took, but the loaded boats bringing the fish to the beach were barely afloat.
There is another thread on the subject that you could search. BA was just lucky I think.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Osprey
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The Pacific sardine fishery stock is down 72% from normal for this decade. Science has yet to answer why but big seiners have more ready buyers now
--- food pellets for aguaculture, fertilizer and THE BIG ONE: fish oil. In our neck of the woods the tuna farms do some damage close to shore since
the netters must stay close to the farms. Nat. Geo says that a big 1,000 pound tuna headed for Dubai might have eaten 1,000,000 pounds of sardines
(and what they eat - the total end product or bio-mass) to get to that weight/size to fetch the big bucks. Recent online report of activity about all
that in La Paz says Arjona (of Arjona Marine?) is investing 18 million dollars in the farm just off shore at San Juan de la Costa. If East Capers are
lucky, the seiners will keep filling up the receivers till all the sardines are gone, then, no more tuna, no more farm, the sardines will slowly come
back and the whole process will start over. Learn to catch/buy/use caballitos, ballyhoo, jurellito, whatever like some of us local are doing. Caught
some nice dorado today >>> the bait: barilette (skip and chunk bait). Never give up, never give in.
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Cliffy
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Posts: 986
Registered: 12-19-2013
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I read/learned/saw how to use skip bait on dorado decades ago. Haven't thought about it in 30 years. Worked then should work now.
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Whale-ista
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Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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fyi Here's a link to a previous post about this story (historic and current sardine population changes)
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=72804
excerpt: One factor is a naturally occurring climate cycle known as the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, which in recent years has brought cold,
nutrient-rich water to the West Coast. While those conditions have brought a boom in some species, such as market squid, they have repelled sardines.
If nature is responsible for the decline, history shows the fish will bounce back when ocean conditions improve. But without a full understanding of
the causes, the crash is raising alarm.
http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-sardine-crash-20140106,...
[Edited on 5-17-2014 by Whale-ista]
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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watizname
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
The Pacific sardine fishery stock is down 72% from normal for this decade. Science has yet to answer why but big seiners have more ready buyers now
--- food pellets for aguaculture, fertilizer and THE BIG ONE: fish oil. In our neck of the woods the tuna farms do some damage close to shore since
the netters must stay close to the farms. Nat. Geo says that a big 1,000 pound tuna headed for Dubai might have eaten 1,000,000 pounds of sardines
(and what they eat - the total end product or bio-mass) to get to that weight/size to fetch the big bucks. Recent online report of activity about all
that in La Paz says Arjona (of Arjona Marine?) is investing 18 million dollars in the farm just off shore at San Juan de la Costa. If East Capers are
lucky, the seiners will keep filling up the receivers till all the sardines are gone, then, no more tuna, no more farm, the sardines will slowly come
back and the whole process will start over. Learn to catch/buy/use caballitos, ballyhoo, jurellito, whatever like some of us local are doing. Caught
some nice dorado today >>> the bait: barilette (skip and chunk bait). Never give up, never give in. |
One of my best days ever was on chunks of barilette.
Always nice to start the day off with a barilette and save it for the chunks if you get into a school. 
I yam what I yam and that\'s all what I yam.
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Aren't the barillette feeding on sardinas as well.
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Mula
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Not about sardines, but something new.
Just got back from 4 days camping on the Concepcion Peninsula.
Arturo of Loreto's Arturo's Sportfishing has started shrimp farming in the bay.
Right now there are 3 pens. They get 20 day old shrimp from La Paz, put them in the pens and feed them for about 2 1/2 months and then harvest medium
sized shrimp.
The plan is to have 60 or 70 of these pens over the next several years.
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Osprey
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Skip, you know better than most how the chain of life goes in the sea with everything connected --- in this case when the uber important sardine
fishery crashes the sea loses uncountable numbers of sea birds, fish and mammals who can't find a satisfactory substitute for their regular food fast
enough. Some of those most effected won't or can't move away from where they regularly feed. It has been rumored the crash caused the major sea lion
pup die off on California beaches recently (1600 pups?).
It's a crying shame that regulators grant permits for big tuna farms like the one close to La Paz without considering the staggering loss of local
biomass.
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Cardon Man
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Thanks for the input everyone. However, we seem to talking mostly about the Pacific Sardine. My question was regarding the flat iron herring aka
"sardina" that was so commonly used by sport fishermen at East Cape, Los Cabos, and throughout the SOC. Are these falling prey to the tuna pens as
well? It used to be very common to to see dense shoals of these baitfish along the shore. And they were almost always available to the sport fleet
for live bait. From what I read/hear/see there hasn't been any appreciable amount of "sardina" available for bait at Los Cabos or EC for quite some
time.
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Cardon Man
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Location: Thetis Bank
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mula
Arturo of Loreto's Arturo's Sportfishing has started shrimp farming in the bay....The plan is to have 60 or 70 of these pens over the next several
years.
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That's not a great sign is it? A sportfishing guy needs to get into aquaculture to make extra pesos?
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Osprey
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Cardon, we have not strayed from your query --- we are talking about sardines here in East Cape and the whole Eastern Pacific ocean. No herring around
either but private boats usually did not buy them because the scales play havoc with bait pumps. No mackerela around right now either. There is
relatively no sport bait and you have to adapt.
I made up some 2 inch hoochies to try for green jacks and when that doesn't work I use Subikis or Lucky Joes with a small weight and slow troll thru
any nervous water, feeding or mating fish on the surface, around any rock shoals, wherever I've seen bait along the shore. In open water I troll fast
with 4 to 5 inch hoochies for bonito or barilette. Mexicans rely on all these things and more --- it's not a game for them, it's catch or go without
dinner.
I'm going to look in every fishing nook and cranny in my bodega for small, attractive jigs and feathers and shiny things that I haven't had to use in
years --- it's adapt and improvise time down here for sure.
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Cardon Man
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mula
They get 20 day old shrimp from La Paz, put them in the pens and feed them for about 2 1/2 months and then harvest medium sized shrimp.
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What are they feeding them? |
Probably feed pellets made of sardina. 
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DJL
Junior Nomad
Posts: 95
Registered: 11-9-2013
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
Thanks for the input everyone. However, we seem to talking mostly about the Pacific Sardine. My question was regarding the flat iron herring aka
"sardina" that was so commonly used by sport fishermen at East Cape, Los Cabos, and throughout the SOC. Are these falling prey to the tuna pens as
well? It used to be very common to to see dense shoals of these baitfish along the shore. And they were almost always available to the sport fleet
for live bait. From what I read/hear/see there hasn't been any appreciable amount of "sardina" available for bait at Los Cabos or EC for quite some
time. |
You are correct , Pacific Sardines and Flatiron Herring (the East Cape Sardina) are two different critters .
As I understand it , the Pacific Sardines have been so over-fished in Mag Bay , it now takes twice as many to make a pound than it did 10 years ago .
The Flatiron Herring (Sardina) of the Cortez ? I've only been gone to Baja since 2005 , so I am not a good indicator .... but the ONLY time I ever saw
them abundant and in mixed sizes (1-4 inches) was 2008 . I see little tiny ones every Winter (down to around 3/4 inch long ... a couple of Eyes on a
Toothpick !) and still fish a Sardina imitation fly , but always in small (under 2 1/2 inch) size .
A Friend , who is a prominent Guide down there .... says it's been over 10 years since he has seen healthy Sardina populations at the E.C. .
D.~
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durrelllrobert
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Extinct?
I just bought a can at Walmart for 85 pesos 
Bob Durrell
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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D, that guy would be a fly fishing guide I suppose. If he's a beach/moto guide he knows all about the bait you can see from shore. The net throwers
who make the whole sportfishing charter business happen would be better sources. In the 20 years I've bought bait here I can't call the last decade a
time of little bait/sardines.
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Udo
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So glad you are finally catching some worthwhile fish, George!
Just curious, if you go out to catch sardines or mackerel, how do you catch them? I know you can't use the weighted nets that you throw over the boat
(I think Leonardo is allowed, however). But do you use a zubeke rig, or something else?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
The Pacific sardine fishery stock is down 72% from normal for this decade. Science has yet to answer why but big seiners have more ready buyers now
--- food pellets for aguaculture, fertilizer and THE BIG ONE: fish oil. In our neck of the woods the tuna farms do some damage close to shore since
the netters must stay close to the farms. Nat. Geo says that a big 1,000 pound tuna headed for Dubai might have eaten 1,000,000 pounds of sardines
(and what they eat - the total end product or bio-mass) to get to that weight/size to fetch the big bucks. Recent online report of activity about all
that in La Paz says Arjona (of Arjona Marine?) is investing 18 million dollars in the farm just off shore at San Juan de la Costa. If East Capers are
lucky, the seiners will keep filling up the receivers till all the sardines are gone, then, no more tuna, no more farm, the sardines will slowly come
back and the whole process will start over. Learn to catch/buy/use caballitos, ballyhoo, jurellito, whatever like some of us local are doing. Caught
some nice dorado today >>> the bait: barilette (skip and chunk bait). Never give up, never give in. |
[Edited on 5-17-2014 by Udo]
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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Osprey
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Posts: 3694
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Gringos are not allowed to throw nets. Mexican bait guys throw nets for surface fish only because the nets are designed to collapse just under the
surface -- they are after halfbeacks (ballyhoo) or sardines.
I use the smaller lures mentioned in my posted reply above to Cardon man when mackerela are not present on the bottom or mid water.
You try it all when it's slow -- yesterday we gave up skip bait for mid sized feathers, got one dorado on and kept it in the water till we got a
second on barilette chunk bait. It's always a "Whatever seems to work" world out there now.
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DJL
Junior Nomad
Posts: 95
Registered: 11-9-2013
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
D, that guy would be a fly fishing guide I suppose. If he's a beach/moto guide he knows all about the bait you can see from shore. The net throwers
who make the whole sportfishing charter business happen would be better sources. In the 20 years I've bought bait here I can't call the last decade a
time of little bait/sardines. |
Yes , you would be correct , Sir - a FF guide who does the beach .
I'm in the same situation - beach only . There could be CLOUDS of bait 200 yards out , unless it was under attack I wouldn't know it was there . Even
the tiny ones seem uncommon (then again , since I'm usually there only in Winter , maybe that's all that is in close ?).
There does still seem to be a lot of Mullet around whenever I'm there , usually at the Marina .
D.~
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Udo
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See!
That's why I save all your e-mails, George...I learn so much from what you put down on paper.
No matter what it is!
| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Gringos are not allowed to throw nets. Mexican bait guys throw nets for surface fish only because the nets are designed to collapse just under the
surface -- they are after halfbeacks (ballyhoo) or sardines.
I use the smaller lures mentioned in my posted reply above to Cardon man when mackerela are not present on the bottom or mid water.
You try it all when it's slow -- yesterday we gave up skip bait for mid sized feathers, got one dorado on and kept it in the water till we got a
second on barilette chunk bait. It's always a "Whatever seems to work" world out there now. |
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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