BajaNomad

what is the protocol

woody with a view - 12-12-2004 at 05:23 PM

for pulling into a fish camp and unloading all of your "hand-me-downs" onto the bewildered :light:, yet thankful :)pangueros?

we are bringing all kinds of stuff (toys, clothes, tools, kitchen stuff) for the folks and don't want to seem out of line, or how do i say, you know-"WE GRINGO, YOU NOT". is there a proper way to approach our fellow watermen?

Get to know them a little first

jrbaja - 12-12-2004 at 05:43 PM

by being polite, sharing some beers or ???
and break the ice. If you speak a little of the lingo you will have no problem.
Ask about their area, fishing, surfing, buried treasure, confluence points, lost missions, themselves, any of the stuff you should be interested in anyways!
You will know if you feel welcome. If you are not, go somewhere else.
Don't be arrogant. Mention you have some things to share with the needy families, not necesarily those you are speaking to.
And ask if they know anyone in need of anything. You might even indicate that you are hungry so they are as well doing something for you. And pay a little for the food when you are done eating. I get some of my best meals this way and they are made with love and care. Do you like sea snail and urchin roe?.
Everybody needs everything down there and it is hard to get. What you hopefully will find out is that you regret giving it all to one spot and have nothing for the next. And there are a lot of "spots".
To be continued.

whistler

Eli - 12-12-2004 at 05:43 PM

Right on! Excellent answer!

Sorry, talking about Uni made me hungry

jrbaja - 12-12-2004 at 06:23 PM

There are a couple other things you might want to keep in mind. Although it is still appreciated to breeze in, drop off stuff and breeze out, it isn't exactly polite.
It is better received if you aren't in such a hurry, show some interest in their lives and location, and spend some time with them prior to unloading.
Also, jealousy and fairness can come into play so, it is best to spend some time with them to make sure everyone in the area benefits from your visit.
Before unloading, wander around and be curious. There is obviously something interesting going on in these rural places or they wouldn't be there. Talk to the people. You will make some really good friends.

Gypsy Jan - 12-12-2004 at 06:33 PM

This is a great topic!

Please keep it up with more insights and stories, I am fascinated about learning about the "real" people of Baja and understanding the correct protocol of making new friends is essential.

Thanks.

woody with a view - 12-12-2004 at 06:55 PM

although i can "understand" more than i can speak, you know, i pick up on every third word (nouns and verbs, i guess) i can make small talk after awhile. we will be passing the fish camp north of the rio de san jose west of catavina about 7-8 am, and realize most of the boys will be out to sea doing their thing at that time o' day. we don't wanna spend too much time hanging out (we're only going to be there a couple of days, neptune willing!) because of time constraints.

basically, i don't have what i consider to be a "good" grasp of the lingo (i realize they appreciate my trying to converse in their lingo), but in an emergency, okay, in a relaxed setting, after a few cervezas, the words-or spanglish start rolling.

is there a way to off-load, maybe offer some $ for langostas y pescados and be on our way with out perpetuating the "gringo mystique"?:(:no::light:

bajajudy - 12-12-2004 at 07:05 PM

I always ask if their church needs some clothes for the poor.
Tu iglesia necisita la ropa para los pobres. that might not be exact but it has always worked for me.
They may not have a church but you can bet they know what the word means.

When I say "spend some time"

jrbaja - 12-12-2004 at 07:57 PM

it doesn't mean a lot of time, just a little while. Like for instance the time it takes to say hello, ask about buying lobster or mariscos, walk around saying buenas ??? and see who's around.
This is in reference to remote fishing and mountain villages where they don't even sell beer let alone religion. So you will be dealing directly with the people.
Try and involve as many as possible and for most who don't have the room for lot's of things, try to include something that the whole village can use. Baseballs, frizbies, www.zingwing.com is a pretty good thing.
There is usually a house where most of the mujeres hang out during the day so that is a good place to start.
"Para todos los gentes en este pueblo" seems to work fairly well as they then usually call the rest of their neighbors over.
They seem to be better at sharing than most!

bajaandy - 12-12-2004 at 09:54 PM

Too many times I have found that giving a few small tools or a good pair of gloves or even some fishing gear to the fisherman results in not only the start of a friendship, but many times you will end up with some fresh fish for dinner as well. My personal feeling is that the gifts should be given with no thought of a return in kind. Often the act of giving is enough in and of itself. (But in the same breath, you can bet I didn't turn down those four huge lobster that Alejandro brought to me the day after I gave him some new leather gloves!) Just do what you feel is right. I agree with JR that it best to be able to spend some time getting to know the people. Even just to share a cervesa and find out who they are. The best part of traveling is the people you meet, not the places you see. Just my .02 worth.

David K - 12-12-2004 at 10:23 PM

I don't think any of us has a monopoly on having Mexican friends, or should be bragging for points.

A lot of people who read and post here have brought gifts or aid to the local Baja people. We just don't post daily about how good we are for doing so... It is something each of us does to our ability or desire and it should be a personal matter.

When one of us is able to take extra down, as JR does, then that is a good time to announce it, so it can be gathered and delivered. We should do these things because it is self rewarding... To expect more or demand respect for one's charity seems 'small' to me.

My amigo Jose and family at San Borja...

Brisa and Sarah at San Borja

David K - 12-12-2004 at 10:27 PM


Donations in Baja

jrbaja - 12-12-2004 at 10:39 PM

is something that we all should do if we are able. We use their country and I think it is only right to give something back to them, especially school supplies.
As far as bragging daily about it, this is something I haven't really heard from many on here.
I was actually going to post something about how cool I thought it was that so many are doing this. Hopefully, more will in the future.
And yes David, I will pick up the mosquito repellants in El Rosario. And I don't think you need to prove you have Mexican friends, everyone knows that you are buddies with Antonio:lol:
This was actually about protocol and politeness coming from gringos. Not about the gringos themselves, if you catch my drift.:light:

Antonio isn't just my friend, he is friendly to all of us

David K - 12-12-2004 at 11:12 PM

Here are my friends Luis and Felicitas of Nuevo Mazatlan, when I was 14... I have always been proud of my native Baja friends...

Braulio - 12-13-2004 at 10:20 AM

Good subject and good points all around muchachos.

To me the "protocol" just depends on the circumstance.

Some people are shy - and you might not really have much of an opportunity to get to know them very well. And they might be the most needy.

I would caution against leaving a lot in one place - there have been caes where donations have wound up being sold by the receivers.

When I have a whole lot of stuff I usually work through a church.

synch - 12-13-2004 at 04:06 PM

Apologies in advance,
but Sara's shorts seem a bit short. I was in Loreto last month and walked around town in BRIGHT orange shorts-swim trunks that were also high stitched.
I got so many giggles from the locals who immediately burst into laughter after they passed me that I figured:
1) Shorts that blatant were socially shocking to the locals, who probably had conservative standards.
2) they were too polite to giggle in front of my face.

On that note

jrbaja - 12-13-2004 at 04:34 PM

I have learned to eliminate certain "questionable" items of clothing that have been donated. I just wouldn't feel right taking some things into the mountains for fear they might wear them. I take these things to Los Barriles where the locals have already been exposed!
Which also brings to mind the sorting.
Some have donated things like brand new boxes of Patagonia jackets for kids, cases of shoes, large quantities of items.
I learned to sort and distribute evenly because one place would get a box of jackets, another shoes and I never really knew what was going where.
So I started investigating the boxes and trying to make it pretty even for everybody, to eliminate any jealousy. It seems to have worked.
And, when it's spread out, nobody has to buy anything from greedy people and they trade amongst themselves for stuff that fits.
Now, I only take stuff to small communities in the mountains or remote coastal fishing villages where they don't get many visitors.
And, these people have obviously learned to live together for the benefit of all. Sharing is something that is absolutely mandatory for these communities to survive so making sure everyone gets something to share has been fairly important the way I see it.
And, I learned the hard way!

woody with a view - 12-13-2004 at 05:25 PM
Quote:

A lot of people who read and post here have brought gifts or aid to the local Baja people. We just don't post daily about how good we are for doing so...


whatever david! all i was trying to do was get some of my unneeded stuff to some people who might need them. sorry if i offended you.

Braulio - 12-13-2004 at 09:55 PM

Woody -

Whister's right - David doesn't make posts like that.

Your original question was a good one - I think the protocol of giving is as important the material items given.

I kick myself thinking about the folks I've offended/humiliated in the course of trying to do good.

David K - 12-13-2004 at 10:03 PM

Woody my friend, that was not directed at anything you posted! I have never read any posts from you bragging about anything...

The folks that know me here know my 'testy' remarks are usually posted in defence of me or my friends when we are harassed...

Trying to help people

jrbaja - 12-13-2004 at 10:11 PM

is bound to stir up jealousy, curiosity, and unfortunately some nasty stuff from those that don't really understand.
You will be accused of bragging, trying to "look good" in front of others, and blah blah blah by many, especially the chicken coop groupers who come down here for their own entertainment trying to prove something.
The fact of the matter is, it's not about you, them, or any tourists opinions. It's about the people you are trying to help.
The good part is, once you have made some true friends down here, you realize that what foreigners have to say, who come down here every once in a while, means nothing.
The truth is in your heart, not theirs. All the naysayers, and those that chime in with how close they are or what they have given can pretty much bask in their own misery.
Todo esta bien Amigo. If we were all the same, it wouldn't be pretty !!:light:

Bob H - 12-14-2004 at 08:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
The folks that know me here know my 'testy' remarks are usually posted in defence of me or my friends when we are harassed...



OR... if you misspell anything... :lol:

Great thread here!
Bob H

bajalera - 12-14-2004 at 10:52 AM

When it comes to making small talk, the weather serves the same purpose in both Spanish and English. If you don't have much Spanish, "Hace calor/frio," "Hay mucho viento," and other blah comments on the weather can be helpful, when you're passing time in an effort to get acquainted with local people.

bajalera

bajaandy - 12-14-2004 at 12:53 PM

I just want to preface this post by saying first and formost that I am no expert in this area. That being said, I have found (and many of you will already know this) that it is very important to "make small talk" in the Mexican culture. To simply walk up and get right to the point of the conversation can seem downright rude to the person you are trying to strike up a conversation with.
For us 'gringos' this can be a sort of a double edged sword. First off, we are used to getting right to the point. In fact, we often expect it. And secondly, those of us with less than fluent bi-lingual skills can find ourselves in a bit of a bind attempting to make small talk because we often just don't understand!
But there is a sort of beauty to this whole scenario that I really like. It forces a person to do two things: 1. Learn the language AND learn the culture. (Both are equally valuable.) And 2. Slow down a little bit.
Anyway, more than my two cents worth.

woody with a view - 12-14-2004 at 07:14 PM

well, i thank you all for the info. this isn't, by far, my first trip south. it is however, the first time that i have planned on showing up with quite a bit of stuff (oh, how i miss the days in puerto escondido, oaxaca when you could bring 3-4 trunks, 5-10 t's and trade for hammocks, oysters and the like), we usually just buy whatever mariscos the pangueros are hawking.

seeing JR's posts regarding his never ending charitable efforts got me to thinking:?: "hey, dummy. your wife doesn't get rid of anything, but maybe if you explain what it's really for, who will really benefit from the STUFF, she may just let it go. lo, and behold it worked. now my bro has stuff his kids have outgrown so i think it will be a success.

not trying to brag or nuthin'...:saint:

Woody

jrbaja - 12-14-2004 at 10:17 PM

Those darn remote beaners have a way about them. Just by your posts I can see that your conversation with those who don't speaka de englise will immediately improve your Spanish. Listen !
The main reason being, when you get away from the americanized Mexicans, they look you right in the eyes and will know in minutes whether they want you around or not. Intuition? No se.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the limited amount of time you have planned to spend delivering and making conversation is about to increase a lot!
You will see when you meet some of these guys who slow down enough to make you understand what they are telling you. Pay attention !!!!!!:biggrin:
Honesty and a pure heart means everything! And, they can tell:lol:

elgatoloco - 12-15-2004 at 08:44 AM

woody

Surf until it blows out, then load up and spend the afternoon meeting the locals! :biggrin:

woody with a view - 12-15-2004 at 07:33 PM

copy that!

lift-off in 4.5 hours...:spingrin::bounce::P

I like Whistlers comment......

Debra - 12-15-2004 at 08:42 PM

"Just ask if they know someone that might use these things"

Thanks!

Gypsy Jan - 12-15-2004 at 08:55 PM

Hi there,

What is a polite way to phrase the question in Spanish,

"Do you know anyone who can use these things?"

Me too!!

jrbaja - 12-15-2004 at 10:47 PM

Nevermind personality and human caring about others. Give em the chit, and carry on witcho bidness.
We are to buzy to deal witcho kine!! We be on vakation. We be gringos wid mo impotant things to do than meeting humans and getting to know others lives.:no:

Braulio - 12-16-2004 at 09:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Hi there,

What is a polite way to phrase the question in Spanish,

"Do you know anyone who can use these things?"


Hi Gypsy Jan -


A literal translation of your sentence would be:

?Sabe alguien que pueda usar estas cositas?

You'd be understood fine saying it that way - use/usar aren't quite cognates in this case - but you'd be understood.

I'd probably soften things a little by saying:

?Acaso sabe una familia (pobre) que necesita de un poco de ropa ( o comida o estas cositas o lo que sea)?

Would you happen to know a (poor)familia that needs some clothing (or food or these things or whatever)?

I hope that doesn't confuse you.

Post under Spanish if you have more questions.

"Acaso" is a good word to have under you cintur?n - it softens things a lot - and kind of translates to "Would you happen..."