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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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what is the protocol
for pulling into a fish camp and unloading all of your "hand-me-downs" onto the bewildered  , yet thankful  pangueros?
we are bringing all kinds of stuff (toys, clothes, tools, kitchen stuff) for the folks and don't want to seem out of line, or how do i say, you
know-"WE GRINGO, YOU NOT". is there a proper way to approach our fellow watermen?
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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Get to know them a little first
by being polite, sharing some beers or ???
and break the ice. If you speak a little of the lingo you will have no problem.
Ask about their area, fishing, surfing, buried treasure, confluence points, lost missions, themselves, any of the stuff you should be interested in
anyways!
You will know if you feel welcome. If you are not, go somewhere else.
Don't be arrogant. Mention you have some things to share with the needy families, not necesarily those you are speaking to.
And ask if they know anyone in need of anything. You might even indicate that you are hungry so they are as well doing something for you. And pay a
little for the food when you are done eating. I get some of my best meals this way and they are made with love and care. Do you like sea snail and
urchin roe?.
Everybody needs everything down there and it is hard to get. What you hopefully will find out is that you regret giving it all to one spot and have
nothing for the next. And there are a lot of "spots".
To be continued.
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Eli
Super Nomad
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Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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whistler
Right on! Excellent answer!
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Sorry, talking about Uni made me hungry
There are a couple other things you might want to keep in mind. Although it is still appreciated to breeze in, drop off stuff and breeze out, it
isn't exactly polite.
It is better received if you aren't in such a hurry, show some interest in their lives and location, and spend some time with them prior to
unloading.
Also, jealousy and fairness can come into play so, it is best to spend some time with them to make sure everyone in the area benefits from your
visit.
Before unloading, wander around and be curious. There is obviously something interesting going on in these rural places or they wouldn't be there.
Talk to the people. You will make some really good friends.
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Gypsy Jan
Ultra Nomad
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This is a great topic!
Please keep it up with more insights and stories, I am fascinated about learning about the "real" people of Baja and understanding the correct
protocol of making new friends is essential.
Thanks.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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although i can "understand" more than i can speak, you know, i pick up on every third word (nouns and verbs, i guess) i can make small talk after
awhile. we will be passing the fish camp north of the rio de san jose west of catavina about 7-8 am, and realize most of the boys will be out to sea
doing their thing at that time o' day. we don't wanna spend too much time hanging out (we're only going to be there a couple of days, neptune
willing!) because of time constraints.
basically, i don't have what i consider to be a "good" grasp of the lingo (i realize they appreciate my trying to converse in their lingo), but in an
emergency, okay, in a relaxed setting, after a few cervezas, the words-or spanglish start rolling.
is there a way to off-load, maybe offer some $ for langostas y pescados and be on our way with out perpetuating the "gringo mystique"? 
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bajajudy
Elite Nomad
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Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
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I always ask if their church needs some clothes for the poor.
Tu iglesia necisita la ropa para los pobres. that might not be exact but it has always worked for me.
They may not have a church but you can bet they know what the word means.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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When I say "spend some time"
it doesn't mean a lot of time, just a little while. Like for instance the time it takes to say hello, ask about buying lobster or mariscos, walk
around saying buenas ??? and see who's around.
This is in reference to remote fishing and mountain villages where they don't even sell beer let alone religion. So you will be dealing directly
with the people.
Try and involve as many as possible and for most who don't have the room for lot's of things, try to include something that the whole village can
use. Baseballs, frizbies, www.zingwing.com is a pretty good thing.
There is usually a house where most of the mujeres hang out during the day so that is a good place to start.
"Para todos los gentes en este pueblo" seems to work fairly well as they then usually call the rest of their neighbors over.
They seem to be better at sharing than most!
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bajaandy
Senior Nomad
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Too many times I have found that giving a few small tools or a good pair of gloves or even some fishing gear to the fisherman results in not only the
start of a friendship, but many times you will end up with some fresh fish for dinner as well. My personal feeling is that the gifts should be given
with no thought of a return in kind. Often the act of giving is enough in and of itself. (But in the same breath, you can bet I didn't turn down
those four huge lobster that Alejandro brought to me the day after I gave him some new leather gloves!) Just do what you feel is right. I agree with
JR that it best to be able to spend some time getting to know the people. Even just to share a cervesa and find out who they are. The best part of
traveling is the people you meet, not the places you see. Just my .02 worth.
subvert the dominant paradigm
"If you travel with a man, you must either fall out with him or make him your good friend."
JBL Noel
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David K
Honored Nomad
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I don't think any of us has a monopoly on having Mexican friends, or should be bragging for points.
A lot of people who read and post here have brought gifts or aid to the local Baja people. We just don't post daily about how good we are for doing
so... It is something each of us does to our ability or desire and it should be a personal matter.
When one of us is able to take extra down, as JR does, then that is a good time to announce it, so it can be gathered and delivered. We should do
these things because it is self rewarding... To expect more or demand respect for one's charity seems 'small' to me.
My amigo Jose and family at San Borja...
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Brisa and Sarah at San Borja
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Donations in Baja
is something that we all should do if we are able. We use their country and I think it is only right to give something back to them, especially school
supplies.
As far as bragging daily about it, this is something I haven't really heard from many on here.
I was actually going to post something about how cool I thought it was that so many are doing this. Hopefully, more will in the future.
And yes David, I will pick up the mosquito repellants in El Rosario. And I don't think you need to prove you have Mexican friends, everyone knows
that you are buddies with Antonio
This was actually about protocol and politeness coming from gringos. Not about the gringos themselves, if you catch my drift.
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David K
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Antonio isn't just my friend, he is friendly to all of us
Here are my friends Luis and Felicitas of Nuevo Mazatlan, when I was 14... I have always been proud of my native Baja friends...
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Braulio
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Good subject and good points all around muchachos.
To me the "protocol" just depends on the circumstance.
Some people are shy - and you might not really have much of an opportunity to get to know them very well. And they might be the most needy.
I would caution against leaving a lot in one place - there have been caes where donations have wound up being sold by the receivers.
When I have a whole lot of stuff I usually work through a church.
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synch
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Mood: wandering...
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Apologies in advance,
but Sara's shorts seem a bit short. I was in Loreto last month and walked around town in BRIGHT orange shorts-swim trunks that were also high
stitched.
I got so many giggles from the locals who immediately burst into laughter after they passed me that I figured:
1) Shorts that blatant were socially shocking to the locals, who probably had conservative standards.
2) they were too polite to giggle in front of my face.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
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On that note
I have learned to eliminate certain "questionable" items of clothing that have been donated. I just wouldn't feel right taking some things into the
mountains for fear they might wear them. I take these things to Los Barriles where the locals have already been exposed!
Which also brings to mind the sorting.
Some have donated things like brand new boxes of Patagonia jackets for kids, cases of shoes, large quantities of items.
I learned to sort and distribute evenly because one place would get a box of jackets, another shoes and I never really knew what was going where.
So I started investigating the boxes and trying to make it pretty even for everybody, to eliminate any jealousy. It seems to have worked.
And, when it's spread out, nobody has to buy anything from greedy people and they trade amongst themselves for stuff that fits.
Now, I only take stuff to small communities in the mountains or remote coastal fishing villages where they don't get many visitors.
And, these people have obviously learned to live together for the benefit of all. Sharing is something that is absolutely mandatory for these
communities to survive so making sure everyone gets something to share has been fairly important the way I see it.
And, I learned the hard way!
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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| Quote: |
A lot of people who read and post here have brought gifts or aid to the local Baja people. We just don't post daily about how good we are for doing
so...
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whatever david! all i was trying to do was get some of my unneeded stuff to some people who might need them. sorry if i offended you.
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Braulio
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Woody -
Whister's right - David doesn't make posts like that.
Your original question was a good one - I think the protocol of giving is as important the material items given.
I kick myself thinking about the folks I've offended/humiliated in the course of trying to do good.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64855
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Woody my friend, that was not directed at anything you posted! I have never read any posts from you bragging about anything...
The folks that know me here know my 'testy' remarks are usually posted in defence of me or my friends when we are harassed...
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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Trying to help people
is bound to stir up jealousy, curiosity, and unfortunately some nasty stuff from those that don't really understand.
You will be accused of bragging, trying to "look good" in front of others, and blah blah blah by many, especially the chicken coop groupers who come
down here for their own entertainment trying to prove something.
The fact of the matter is, it's not about you, them, or any tourists opinions. It's about the people you are trying to help.
The good part is, once you have made some true friends down here, you realize that what foreigners have to say, who come down here every once in a
while, means nothing.
The truth is in your heart, not theirs. All the naysayers, and those that chime in with how close they are or what they have given can pretty much
bask in their own misery.
Todo esta bien Amigo. If we were all the same, it wouldn't be pretty !!
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