.
.....that sure gives a perspective on the drainage situation
.toneart - 7-5-2014 at 11:35 AM
Is there anything in those photos that present any confidence that future floods in Mulege can be prevented or diverted?willyAirstream - 7-5-2014 at 11:42 AM
We are waiting Tony. Friends went out to the valley yesterday and water was running everywhere, but not in the excavation areas, maybe it soaked in?
The dots you see in the right channel are cactus sitting on 10 ft + high islands, Curious if they will with stand any large amounts of water flow. It
is illegal to remove cactus here.
btw, the heavy rains we are having now are NOT causing any flooding.
On edit.......cactus, not palms
[Edited on 7-6-2014 by willyAirstream]micah202 - 7-5-2014 at 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
Is there anything in those photos that present any confidence that future floods in Mulege can be prevented or diverted?
.impression from the picture.........unfortunately not...if there was somewhere to divert flow,,it's not in the picture.
........that's one huge arroyo that goes through a funnel named Mulege.
edit.....looking at satellite shot on a bigger scale..... -maybe-http://www.maplandia.com/mexico/baja-california-sur/mulege/mulege/ if you put
the westmost farm in the centre of the pic,,,scale to mid-size,,,you'll see a channel that leads S>>N,,,and points towards a -possible-
alternative drainage......but a closer look at the drainage lines there gives me the impression that that's actually yet another drainage -towards-
Mulege.....I can only hope I'm wrong!......
...edit again......a contour map of the region http://www.floodmap.net/Elevation/ElevationMap/?gi=3995236 confirms the above impression...that's one HUGE drainage that makes it's way through
that pretty town,,,,it'd take a dam & diversion the height of the Hwy1 bridge to do anything,,not really any realistic options further up,,,and of
course that option would only create another set of homes in the flowpath
[Edited on 7-5-2014 by micah202]bajabuddha - 7-5-2014 at 12:11 PM
The topography of the drainage basin for the Rio Santa Rosalia de Mulege is simply one HUGE catcher's mitt; those pics only show the palm of the
glove. The pics were looking east for only about 5 miles of the valley farmland; to the west into the mountains is another ten times the amount of
catch-basin, and ALL funnels into that very tiny, but very prominent gorge at the mouth. All the earthworks being done will be tested, not if.... but
when.
I truly hope for everyone's sake that the works DO slow and impede the inevitable floods. The geography of the area is such that monster floods will
be an inevitable part of the future of Mulege, and especially for those who build close to the estero.watizname - 7-5-2014 at 06:07 PM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Gulliver - 7-6-2014 at 07:52 AM
It looks to me as though the channel they have cut through is to protect the agricultural areas out there by bypassing them and will, if anything,
make the floods worse in town.watizname - 7-6-2014 at 08:03 AM
I think Gulliver is right. It looks like they need to slow that water down and spread it out over the ag areas, and let as much as possible perk in.
Looks like they have just greased the chute by creating that channel.willyAirstream - 7-6-2014 at 08:19 AM
There are 2 `` ditches`` in the photos. There are 6 to 8 ditches that extend out to the base of the mountains, about 30 miles. They are all this wide
and have 12+ high banks. Let the speculation continue.MulegeAL - 7-6-2014 at 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by watizname
I think Gulliver is right. It looks like they need to slow that water down and spread it out over the ag areas, and let as much as possible perk in.
Looks like they have just greased the chute by creating that channel.
I think Gulliver is wrong (nothing personal!). The works to "slow the water down", retain some of it and spread it over a wide area is not visible in
that photo; it is right under the airplane's position and to the SW. I discussed this on a previous thread that's buried here somewhere.
When I "walked the job" with the mex supervisor in April a flow control feature was discussed near where the ice house road crosses the new
cleaned-out arroyo. This feature is key/crucial to metering floodwaters down through the ag area channel and through town. Also crucial is dredging
the estuary channel to increase flow capacity and keep water levels through town lower.
I have not seen any construction of a flow control feature or dredging, maybe those are separate contracts, just speculating on that, always dangerous
to do that on the internot! The supervisor had been staying at the casa just east of the ejido office out on ice house, that's where I met him
before we toured the job, sorry, can't recall his name! I wish I had better info on this muy importante local issue, but that's all I got in April.
It must be obvious to local business owners how much leverage this issue/project has on local property values, real estate trade and tourist business,
would like to hear from Jorge Y or similar, he has more exposure on this than just about anybody! I will try to have a chat with him soon.willyAirstream - 7-6-2014 at 08:55 AM
Al ,
I see Jorge daily and he says no one in town knows what the game plan is, nor has the town been consulted. He also said that engineers from Mexico
City were making the calls.Gulliver - 7-6-2014 at 06:55 PM
I hope I'm wrong too. I live on the estuary!!
I wonder how much of the GDP of Mulege depends on gringos these days. I don't even know what percentage of them (us) live in the flood area. Most?
Half? Dunno.
Whether I lived there or not, I'd hate to see the town dry up and blow away.
[Edited on 7-7-2014 by Gulliver]micah202 - 7-6-2014 at 07:45 PM
.
...Mulege will never 'dry up and blow away',,,,has a lot more going for it than many other locales.
.....the only things that might get 'blown away' are homes on the riverfront and flood prone areasGulliver - 7-6-2014 at 09:14 PM
True, it's a special place but I suspect that the local economy would have a hard time without the resident and semi resident gringos and the people
on the way through.
I was away for a few years and was startled by the changes at the Serenedad. When I last was there in maybe 2009, it was jumping. Then came all the
publicity about the violence on the mainland. Came back in 2014 and it was pretty quiet. And now who knows?micah202 - 7-6-2014 at 09:24 PM
.
...^^,,,put another way....if all Gringo's dried and blew away,,,,,life in Mulege would only change a little for those native to itMulegeAL - 7-6-2014 at 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by micah202
.
...^^,,,put another way....if all Gringo's dried and blew away,,,,,life in Mulege would only change a little for those native to it
Tru dat. And part of why I keep going back!bajabuddha - 7-6-2014 at 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MulegeAL
Quote:
Originally posted by micah202
.
...^^,,,put another way....if all Gringo's dried and blew away,,,,,life in Mulege would only change a little for those native to it
Tru dat. And part of why I keep going back!
....WORD. micah202 - 7-7-2014 at 12:14 AM
.
...my favorite trip down baja was the time I took ~5 weeks before getting to Ventana for some kiteboarding,,,and it felt like I hadn't spoken anything
but spanglaish the whole time till then
...us gringo's tend to over-rate our value to that simple rugged land and it's people chuckie - 7-7-2014 at 04:34 AM
I live in Loma Azul, a mostly Mexican suburb of Mulege. I think the local folks would give the classic Mexican shrug, and keep on keepin on if the
Gringos left. BUT that's not going to happen. On the water diversion? If the ditches are truly 12 feet deep and run out 30 miles, that is going to
take a lot of the water out of the river basin. Will it be enough? We shall see....StuckSucks - 7-7-2014 at 08:24 AM
Cool photos - really puts the drainage (and challenge of controlling the water) into perspective.Sweetwater - 7-7-2014 at 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by StuckSucks
Cool photos - really puts the drainage (and challenge of controlling the water) into perspective.
Thanks Willy, photos sparked a smart discussion. Engineering to mitigate flood zones is a tricky challenge and the topography of the area really makes
it more challenging. Does anyone know the range of precip on an ongoing basis? Some numbers that matter are the one time loads on the system like when
the hurricanes come through. That load cannot percolate and constitutes 95% runoff and load to the surface system.....longer storms with large volumes
put another type of load to that same system. Hope the engineers take into account the range and frequency of all types of storms which are allegedly
linked to ongoing climate change.micah202 - 7-7-2014 at 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
.............. On the water diversion? If the ditches are truly 12 feet deep and run out 30 miles, that is going to take a lot of the water out of the
river basin. Will it be enough? We shall see....
........where would such ditches 'divert' the water to?...as far as I can see,a channel would need to be cut through climbing,mountainous terrain to
create another exit.
....otherwise,,these should be called 'delays' rather than diversions....they would help with more absorption,,,but in a major event if any of them
were to breach,,,which 12' would be -nothing-,,Mulege could/WOULD see something MUCH worse.
.....Sorry,,I'm not trying to be a doomsdayer here,,and I hope the engineers have something bigger up their sleeves than is visible,,,but god forbid
they create 12' earth dams up there in the face of increasing severity in weather events!
....one goes,,,they ALL could go!Russ - 7-7-2014 at 10:52 AM
The area they have excavated is so torn up right now it will really soak up a major amount of water. I'm thinking that this will really help the water
table at least until it is pack down again. Or it could be swept away and really cause havoc down river. I guess we'll have to wait and see.Gulliver - 7-7-2014 at 10:54 AM
I have not looked over the topo maps carefully but from riding my bike around up there I have the impression that there is a much lower hill barrier
to the North of the basin. It might be well within reason to divert much of the extreme flows out to the Sea in the next drainage area to the North.
What the residents of that area might feel about that has not been heard yet!micah202 - 7-7-2014 at 11:02 AM
...each color change is 50'.....I don't see any possibilities of any real diversion from Mulege.
...I can only think that the diversion's design & effect is to protect the farms up there.
.... any attempt to hold-back water could be catastrophic.
.
[Edited on 7-7-2014 by micah202]reneske - 7-7-2014 at 03:04 PM
I do not think the plan is to hold back all the water. From what we were told by people in the know, the plan is just to slow it down so that it does
not all hit at once as it normally does. Right now there is a straight shot from the mountains to the sea. The hope is to slow down a lot and divert
a little. We can speculate all we want, but the real test will be the next hurricane. We are not experts as hopefully those they consulted before
doing the work are. Let's keep our fingers crossed.micah202 - 7-7-2014 at 03:08 PM
.
......^^...''fingers crossed''!?...........how 'bout....''trust in god,,but tie up your camel/horse**''
...and while you're at it....''don't 'build your house on sand''.
....I'd be -very- happy to hear that those 12' dirtwalls won't actually do any holdbacks...it'd be fine if not overwhelmed with volume...point made
,,I'll try to S-up on this now
...**,,depending on eastern/western version of biblical verse!
[Edited on 7-7-2014 by micah202]chuckie - 7-7-2014 at 03:13 PM
Si, Amigo...we talk lots in the cantina, and then we dig....nada problema....micah202 - 7-7-2014 at 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie
Si, Amigo...we talk lots in the cantina, and then we dig....nada problema....
...probably best th'Cantina uphill by the highway!
