BajaNomad

Shakedowns of Canadians transiting the U.S. to Baja?

DanO - 9-11-2014 at 04:14 PM

Some rather shocking information and statistics in this CBC piece. It'd be interesting to know whether any Nomads have experienced this.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/american-shakedown-police-won-t...

I have no idea about the reliability of the CBC. Maybe the Canadian Nomads can chime in on that.

monoloco - 9-11-2014 at 04:20 PM

They do it to Americans everyday, why would they treat Canadians any differently?

bajaguy - 9-11-2014 at 04:22 PM

Keep your money in the bank and use ATM's

bill erhardt - 9-11-2014 at 04:54 PM

In Mexico it is mordida. In the U S it is civil forfeiture. In Mexico local cops get a few pesos. In the U S civil forfeiture has ballooned into a hustle that nets hundreds of millions of dollars a year for enterprising police. The Washington Post is currently running an expose and legislation has been proposed in Congress to curb, or at least control, the practice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/st...

mtgoat666 - 9-11-2014 at 05:13 PM

popo are out of control. civil forfeiture, license to steal. arming of popo with military weapons and assault vehicles. popo gunning down citizens left and right, license to kill. i dont trust any of them anymore.

did you hear the latest? the san diego unified school district police got an MRAP armored vehicle. WTF?



[Edited on 9-12-2014 by mtgoat666]

ncampion - 9-11-2014 at 06:12 PM

Our government, at all levels, is completely out of control. Law abiding citizens get shaken down while criminals run free. Glad I live in Mexico.

liknbaja127 - 9-11-2014 at 07:07 PM

Is that thing for real? OMG, School nothing like it use to be:wow:

Tioloco - 9-11-2014 at 07:14 PM

I hope that MRAP is a gag.

Cisco - 9-11-2014 at 07:43 PM

Here are a few I grabbed quickly out of one or two files.

Regarding the militarization of police this is a direct result of manufacturers lobbying to get more product manufactured.

This stuff has been all over OT for the last few months. One post was a sheriff in a county of 14,000 people amid the corn fields of Nabraska who has over eight million dollars worth of gear from armored vehicles to bayonets. And he's paranoid?

Authorities seize Philadelphia couple’s home following son’s first drug offense
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/sourovelis-family-forfeit...

Government seizes elderly woman’s savings when she tries to fly with cash
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/victoria-faren-forfeiture...

The FAIR Act: New bill aims to reign in policing for profit
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/the-fair-act/

South Carolina cops seize heaps of cash during annual enforcement blitz
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/south-carolina-rolling-th...

  Civil Liberties  
AlterNet / By Steven Rosenfeld
Comments
The Shocking Militarization of America's Police Finally Catches the Interest of the US Senate
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/shocking-militarizat...

Ateo - 9-11-2014 at 07:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tioloco
I hope that MRAP is a gag.


It's legit. $700,000. They got it for free. We all paid for it.

Tioloco - 9-11-2014 at 07:48 PM

San Diego school district has their own police force?

Cisco - 9-11-2014 at 07:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cisco
Here are a few I grabbed quickly out of one or two files.

Regarding the militarization of police this is a direct result of manufacturers lobbying to get more product manufactured.

This stuff has been all over OT for the last few months. One post was a sheriff in a county of 14,000 people amid the corn fields of Nabraska who has over eight million dollars worth of gear from armored vehicles to bayonets. And he's paranoid?

Authorities seize Philadelphia couple’s home following son’s first drug offense
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/sourovelis-family-forfeit...

Government seizes elderly woman’s savings when she tries to fly with cash
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/victoria-faren-forfeiture...

The FAIR Act: New bill aims to reign in policing for profit
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/the-fair-act/

South Carolina cops seize heaps of cash during annual enforcement blitz
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/south-carolina-rolling-th...

  Civil Liberties  
AlterNet / By Steven Rosenfeld
Comments
The Shocking Militarization of America's Police Finally Catches the Interest of the US Senate
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/shocking-militarizat...



Roughly one-third of the Pentagon weaponry transferred to local police was unused or almost new, McCaskill said, which raised questions about why the military is buying supplies it is almost immediately giving away. If the gear wasn’t provided free, then grants from the Homeland Security and Justice Departments helped to pay for it.

Estevez, the Pentagon’s Principal Deputy Under-Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, told the senators the giveaway program was designed for “good stewardship.” He said more than 8,000 of the country’s 17,000 local police agencies participate in the program, which has provided more than $5.1 billion “in property” since 1997. Governors' offices make the requests, Estevez said, adding, “The Department of Defense does not have the expertise in police force functions and cannot assess how equipment is used in the possession of local law enforcement agencies.”

In the past 12 months, of the 1.9 million pieces of equipment given away, 78,000 were military-grade arms or “controlled property,” Estevez said. “Law enforcement agencies currently possess 460,000 pieces of controlled property that they have received over time." Examples of controlled property include over 92,000 small arms, 44,000 night-vision devices, 5,200 high-mobility multi-purpose vehicles or Humvees, and 617 mine-resistant ambush protected vehicles, or MRAPS. The Department does not provide tanks, grenade launchers, sniper rifles, current service weapons or uniforms, he said. (His numbers slightly differed from figures cited by McCaskill.)

Whale-ista - 9-11-2014 at 07:59 PM

Are they talking about asset forfeiture? This has been a problem for years. Here's a recent news report:

http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-32135-oregon_police_recei...
Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
Some rather shocking information and statistics in this CBC piece. It'd be interesting to know whether any Nomads have experienced this.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/american-shakedown-police-won-t...

I have no idea about the reliability of the CBC. Maybe the Canadian Nomads can chime in on that.

m923a1 - 9-11-2014 at 08:06 PM

My first post. Maybe not a good way to introduce myself, but seriously, 62K of these types of interdictions/confiscations in 13 years? That's less than 400 per MONTH in a country of over 250 million people. And 200 per month of them got their money back! Oh, and I like the quote "...on roadways and elsewhere." I'd say the story is a greatly sensationalized.

I don't think you have much to worry about on your drive from Canada to Mexico.

Tioloco - 9-11-2014 at 08:11 PM

I would agree you probably don't have much to worry about...... Unless one of those 400 that month is you. Wrong is wrong and overreach is overreach.

Cisco - 9-11-2014 at 08:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m923a1
My first post. Maybe not a good way to introduce myself, but seriously, 62K of these types of interdictions/confiscations in 13 years? That's less than 400 per MONTH in a country of over 250 million people. And 200 per month of them got their money back! Oh, and I like the quote "...on roadways and elsewhere." I'd say the story is a greatly sensationalized.

I don't think you have much to worry about on your drive from Canada to Mexico.


Stick 5 or $6K or whatever is a fair amount of money to you up under the dash and see what you physical reaction will be when you are pulled over anywhere in the U.S. between Canada and Mexico.

Tioloco - 9-11-2014 at 08:23 PM

Seems as though most people in favor of this type of seizure don't have the means or understanding to ever be in a position to carry sums of cash. It is nobody's bizness how much cash u carry.

Cisco - 9-11-2014 at 08:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tioloco
Seems as though most people in favor of this type of seizure don't have the means or understanding to ever be in a position to carry sums of cash. It is nobody's bizness how much cash u carry.


I'm missing something here TL.

"Seems as though most people in favor of this type of seizure". Who is in favor of this type of seizure other than law enforcement?

m923a1 - 9-11-2014 at 08:39 PM

I guess what I'm getting at is that as an Americano and one who likes to travel to Mexico, I get upset with the hype and sensationalism that we all hear in the US media about how dangerous things are in Mexico. This news story is the same type of sensationalism, but in reverse.

And by way of introduction, I have taken my young family of 7 kids to Mexico (mainland and Baja) on several occasions, and we've never felt unsafe. My grandparents and several cousins have been driving down to Mazatlan for Christmas for over 30 years. My next trip to Baja Sur will be just my wife and I by motorcycle. Something we've wanted to do for a couple of years.

And finally, if you are Canadian, and will be driving through where I live, along the shores of the Great Salt Lake, I would recommend that you ignore the advice of that story, and bring along an air freshener.

--George

[Edited on 9-12-2014 by m923a1]

Tioloco - 9-11-2014 at 08:44 PM

Cisco
There are many folks who think these seizures are a good tactic by police. It is usually tied back into the terrorism mantra.

Cisco - 9-11-2014 at 08:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tioloco
Cisco
There are many folks who think these seizures are a good tactic by police. It is usually tied back into the terrorism mantra.


Thank you.

Sheesh, we're in worse shape than I thought.

BajaGringo - 9-11-2014 at 09:04 PM

Just more proof of how out of control things are in the US today.

With all of its problems, dangers, warts and potholes, I feel more free living here in Mexico than back in the country of my birth. It truly pains me to say that and many of you know what we have been through down here....

m923a1 - 9-11-2014 at 09:14 PM

Here's the Washington Post story that's referred to by CBC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/st...

After reading it, I, too, am concerned that there are abuses going on, but I would still say the CBC interpretation of it is skewed. I'm mostly concerned about the violation of privacy going on when people/cars/license plates are being tracked and recorded.

Canadians aren't the target, but yeah, one could safely say that if you are a foreigner, you probably shouldn't be driving around with tens of thousand of dollars in currency.

BajaGringo - 9-11-2014 at 09:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m923a1
Canadians aren't the target, but yeah, one could safely say that if you are a foreigner, you probably shouldn't be driving around with tens of thousand of dollars in currency.


That in itself is now a crime???

Cisco - 9-11-2014 at 09:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Just more proof of how out of control things are in the US today.

With all of its problems, dangers, warts and potholes, I feel more free living here in Mexico than back in the country of my birth. It truly pains me to say that and many of you know what we have been through down here....


Well said Ron, and yes, unfortunately what you and your wife went through is happening more and more NOB also.

The poverty and disillusionment of many, not knowing if they will have work or health care available tomorrow is making folks very fearful and actually desperate now. I don't know where it will go but I'm certainly more cautious when I'm out in town or on the road in U.S. now.

No, I do not feel "free" as before.

Un favor. Could you post your old 'El Ocho' avatar again maybe for a day or two. That's still the way I think of you now even with your "new look" avatar.

Bajaboy - 9-11-2014 at 09:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by m923a1
Canadians aren't the target, but yeah, one could safely say that if you are a foreigner, you probably shouldn't be driving around with tens of thousand of dollars in currency.


That in itself is now a crime???


No one said it was a crime. Stupid, yes:light:

Tioloco - 9-11-2014 at 09:34 PM

Baja boy,
Why is it stupid?
Is it stupid to have a luxury car or lavish house?

Tioloco - 9-11-2014 at 09:35 PM

Appears there is more danger from govt agents taking cash than regular street hoods.

Bajaboy - 9-11-2014 at 09:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tioloco
Baja boy,
Why is it stupid?
Is it stupid to have a luxury car or lavish house?


I feel uncomfortable walking around with a few hundred bucks on me. What if you got in an auto accident and the car burst into flames? If I had a lavish house or a luxury house, I would have insurance. Just the same, I would not travel with large amounts of cash....just doesn't make sense to me.

Cisco - 9-11-2014 at 09:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by m923a1
Canadians aren't the target, but yeah, one could safely say that if you are a foreigner, you probably shouldn't be driving around with tens of thousand of dollars in currency.


That in itself is now a crime???


No one said it was a crime. Stupid, yes:light:


Zac, there's some rulings that can make it a crime I understand.

10K or more seems to be the point at which everyone gets excited. Tried moving in excess of that amount in banking and was told that the authorities had to be notified and why not do $9,999 and it's legal.

Don't know what the deal is but there's something about leaving the country with more than 10K cash that screwed up a trip my oldest boy was making last year. Missed a flight while they verified funds, or his source of funds. They wanted it themselves.

And years ago, before the peso devalued the more politically astute friends I had in T.J wanted to get the money out of the country. We moved millions of pesos to the U.S. side, investing all in real property. That's where "Taco Tower" at the shores and a lot of Coronado Cays came from.

Hold for 18 months and sell for cash American.

There was so much of this going on that those of us in real estate financing, mortgage banking, escrow, whatever were made into IRS 'snitches' by having to abide by the new RESPA act. Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act where the initial funds for the purchase had to be accounted for or they were taxed with any sale proceeds.

So yea, there seems to be a law or regulation for just about everything and it all seems to go from our overall's pockets to the nebulous "Man" somehow.

BajaGringo - 9-11-2014 at 09:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tioloco
Appears there is more danger from govt agents taking cash than regular street hoods.


Govt agents and regular street hoods are beginning to look one and the same.


Cisco - let me find it and I'll put it back up...

Tioloco - 9-11-2014 at 09:42 PM

Baja boy-
One persons comfort level shouldn't dictate anothers freedom level.

Bajaboy - 9-11-2014 at 09:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cisco
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by m923a1
Canadians aren't the target, but yeah, one could safely say that if you are a foreigner, you probably shouldn't be driving around with tens of thousand of dollars in currency.


That in itself is now a crime???


No one said it was a crime. Stupid, yes:light:


Zac, there's some rulings that can make it a crime I understand.

10K or more seems to be the point at which everyone gets excited. Tried moving in excess of that amount in banking and was told that the authorities had to be notified and why not do $9,999 and it's legal.

Don't know what the deal is but there's something about leaving the country with more than 10K cash that screwed up a trip my oldest boy was making last year. Missed a flight while they verified funds, or his source of funds. They wanted it themselves.

And years ago, before the peso devalued the more politically astute friends I had in T.J wanted to get the money out of the country. We moved millions of pesos to the U.S. side, investing all in real property. That's where "Taco Tower" at the shores and a lot of Coronado Cays came from.

Hold for 18 months and sell for cash American.

There was so much of this going on that those of us in real estate financing, mortgage banking, escrow, whatever were made into IRS 'snitches' by having to abide by the new RESPA act. Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act where the initial funds for the purchase had to be accounted for or they were taxed with any sale proceeds.

So yea, there seems to be a law or regulation for just about everything and it all seems to go from our overall's pockets to the nebulous "Man" somehow.


It's an old law on the books to prevent money laundering....any deposits into banks etc., over $10k have to be documented. Same thing goes for money coming into or out of the country. It is perfectly legal to leave or enter with this amount or greater as long as it is declared.

Cisco - 9-11-2014 at 09:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by Tioloco
Appears there is more danger from govt agents taking cash than regular street hoods.


Govt agents and regular street hoods are beginning to look one and the same.


Cisco - let me find it and I'll put it back up...


Thanks Guy. Yea, you really looked the part, always got a kick out of that photo. That was "Old Days" stuff.

Reminds me of being in on the first floor and the guy's on two and three would throw their habena (sp) out to land in front of us and there would be oatmeal everywhere. Everyone who had been in there more than one meal learned to get behind the others in the cell so you wouldn't get splattered.

Yea, before was better. And as much as I love my country it's getting scary up here.

LancairDriver - 9-11-2014 at 10:17 PM

The militarization of the US police forces and all agencies such as the Dept of Education, the Agriculture Dept , and Social Security Admin.now having their own SWAT teams is the most dangerous and ridiculous thing to happen since the founding of this nation. Everything from domestic to international matters that displease our government are now met with maximum force. This is a trend that is under increasing scrutiny by more and more citizens but will be extremely difficult to correct.

m923a1 - 9-11-2014 at 10:45 PM

By using the stats given in the article (62,000 people having a total of $2.5B dollars seized; 31,000 of which had an average of $8,800 dollars seized), the other 31,000 people then had an average of around $80,000 seized.

Out of the 62,000 people, they listed the 3 most egregious errors in seized assets they could find and it totaled just over $100,000 dollars.

$80,000 is a lot of cash to be casually carrying around in a car.

[Edited on 9-12-2014 by m923a1]

David K - 9-12-2014 at 08:22 AM

You ever wonder about the sensors you now drive past going south, as you leave the U.S.?
How about the new signs that warn you not to take over $10,000 out of the U.S. (or some other amount)?
Does our dollars ($100 bills) now have chips in them so they can track where they are?

BajaRat - 9-12-2014 at 09:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K

Does our dollars ($100 bills) now have chips in them so they can track where they are?


If the bills don't have them now, its coming soon. I think one of the big reasons we don't see a " turn in your old bills for new high tech currency " is many of the people involved in laundering and kick backs are your elected and appointed officials and they don't want to stop the gravy train.
Can you imagine the global impact for some having to declare what US cash they posses currently, Ruu Roooo.

Feathers - 9-12-2014 at 09:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by m923a1 … I'd say the story is a greatly sensationalized…


I'd say the story is only being sensationalized if it's not your money being seized.

[Edited on 9-12-2014 by Feathers]

signs new?

akshadow - 9-12-2014 at 09:55 AM

I don't think the signs about $10,000 limit on cash out of US are new.
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
You ever wonder about the sensors you now drive past going south, as you leave the U.S.?
How about the new signs that warn you not to take over $10,000 out of the U.S. (or some other amount)?
Does our dollars ($100 bills) now have chips in them so they can track where they are?

David K - 9-12-2014 at 10:20 AM

When I say 'new', I mean in traditional terms... not like in the past month. I don't remember them being there before the government change in the U.S. of the current administration.

DanO - 9-12-2014 at 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
When I say 'new', I mean in traditional terms... not like in the past month. I don't remember them being there before the government change in the U.S. of the current administration.

I figured it was only a matter of time before you would attempt to hijack this thread. Please provide us with a reliable source for your assertion that the signs were not at the border before 2008. Thanks.

bajaguy - 9-12-2014 at 10:40 AM

It is amazing that somebody would travel with $2,000, $5,000, $10,000 or even $30,000 with them or in their car.

It's not that they can't, but really does not make sense to me with the availability of ATM's and electronic funds transfers.......why take a chance to lose it by whatever means????

My max on the road cash funds is $200. If I need more, I use the ATM

micah202 - 9-12-2014 at 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
It is amazing that somebody would travel with $2,000, $5,000, $10,000 or even $30,000 with them or in their car.

It's not that they can't, but really does not make sense to me with the availability of ATM's and electronic funds transfers.......why take a chance to lose it by whatever means????

My max on the road cash funds is $200. If I need more, I use the ATM


....I hope your trust in virtual funds works out for the best:rolleyes:


.

DanO - 9-12-2014 at 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
When I say 'new', I mean in traditional terms... not like in the past month. I don't remember them being there before the government change in the U.S. of the current administration.

I figured it was only a matter of time before you would attempt to hijack this thread. Please provide us with a reliable source for your assertion that the signs were not at the border before 2008. Thanks.


Hijack? I was answering a question. No, I don't take photos of the American side of the border driving south... I didn't think I had to... but, I see with short memories that some have, maybe I should have? I bet someone can dig up when the money limit southbound signs went up... I sure don't think it was over 6 years ago... but I could be wrong and am happy to say so if proof is provided. Have a nice day Dan.


How typical. Insert irrelevant political rhetoric (which belongs in OT but you refuse to go there), then sort of but not really walk it back when someone calls you on it, and act like that person is the aggressor. Since you concede that you have no basis for asserting that the signs were erected as part of some insidious plot by the [scare quotes] "current administration," here's a short two-question quiz for you:

1. How is the presence or absence of the signs warning people about a law (31 U.S.C. 5316) that has been on the books since 1982 (during the Reagan administration, ironically) relevant to this discussion?
2. Assuming your unproven premise to be correct, how does the erection of the warning signs by the "current administration" prove that the government is overreaching, which is what this discussion is about? (If this one is too tricky for you, I'll give you a hint: It would actually demonstrate that the "current administration" wants people to be informed about the law so that they don't inadvertently fall victim to forfeiture, which is sort of the opposite of overreaching.)

Thanks. You have a nice day too.

Sweetwater - 9-12-2014 at 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by m923a1
By using the stats given in the article (62,000 people having a total of $2.5B dollars seized; 31,000 of which had an average of $8,800 dollars seized), the other 31,000 people then had an average of around $80,000 seized.

Out of the 62,000 people, they listed the 3 most egregious errors in seized assets they could find and it totaled just over $100,000 dollars.

$80,000 is a lot of cash to be casually carrying around in a car.

[Edited on 9-12-2014 by m923a1]


LOL....this just reminded me of a Richard Pryor joke from 1972 or so....

"When the FBI arrested him at the airport with the 30 kilos of cocaine, he was flying to the Bahamas to purchase a hospital for his sick momma...."

Edit: chite, I shouda known DK wood screw up another conversation....forgot to refresh my browser.....my bad....

[Edited on 9-12-2014 by Sweetwater]

SFandH - 9-12-2014 at 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
It is amazing that somebody would travel with $2,000, $5,000, $10,000 or even $30,000 with them or in their car.



Yeah but what else are you going to do when you just purchased $50,000 in counterfeit bills for $500 or whatever?

Seriously, I wonder if catching counterfeiters is part of the issue with hauling around lots of cash.

David K - 9-12-2014 at 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwater
Quote:
Originally posted by m923a1
By using the stats given in the article (62,000 people having a total of $2.5B dollars seized; 31,000 of which had an average of $8,800 dollars seized), the other 31,000 people then had an average of around $80,000 seized.

Out of the 62,000 people, they listed the 3 most egregious errors in seized assets they could find and it totaled just over $100,000 dollars.

$80,000 is a lot of cash to be casually carrying around in a car.

[Edited on 9-12-2014 by m923a1]




Edit: chite, I shouda known DK wood screw up another conversation....forgot to refresh my browser.....my bad....



How did I screw up anything? Another Nomad made a big deal out of a short reply that didn't even mention a name or political party. When the tables are turned and if I commented about a word used, do you come down on the poster? no! That's because criticism of leftists are to be ignored. '1984' exists in 2014. Watch out, here come the thought police!

How the left silences opposition... harass conservative, traditional values to the point people weaken and stop posting. The silent majority is born. Now, if they only would vote!

mtgoat666 - 9-12-2014 at 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
You ever wonder about the sensors you now drive past going south, as you leave the U.S.?
How about the new signs that warn you not to take over $10,000 out of the U.S. (or some other amount)?
Does our dollars ($100 bills) now have chips in them so they can track where they are?


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
When I say 'new', I mean in traditional terms... not like in the past month. I don't remember them being there before the government change in the U.S. of the current administration.


interesting, i learn something new everyday.

David K - 9-12-2014 at 02:00 PM

In Spanish, the word for NEW is NUEVO.

Nuevo Mazatlan has been the name for Agua de Chale since 1967... Yet it still is "New" Mazatlan, to this very day!
:light:
:lol:

DanO - 9-12-2014 at 04:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David KHow did I screw up anything? Another Nomad made a big deal out of a short reply that didn't even mention a name or political party. When the tables are turned and if I commented about a word used, do you come down on the poster? no! That's because criticism of leftists are to be ignored. '1984' exists in 2014. Watch out, here come the thought police!

How the left silences opposition... harass conservative, traditional values to the point people weaken and stop posting. The silent majority is born. Now, if they only would vote!


You screwed it up by injecting irrelevant political ideology -- disguised as an alleged "fact" -- into a discussion where it didn't belong. In short, you dropped a turd into our swimming pool. I asked you to source your alleged "fact" and explain its relevance. You didn't, obviously because you can't.

Instead, you resorted to name calling, labeling me a left wing fascist who's trying to suppress your voice (of course, you have no idea what my political views really are). How incredibly childish, like a little kid who knows he's lost an argument. What do you do for an encore, stomp your foot, take your ball and go home?

Your apparent view that you have an unfettered right to post anything you want here is incorrect. "The First Amendment generally does not apply to private activity. Thus, a private individual or private entity cannot be said to unconstitutionally 'abridge' another private individual's 'freedom of speech and press.' Only the government, or its agents, can be charged with violating the First Amendment." http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/First_Amendment. Here's an explanation that applies specifically to comments on internet forums: http://lifehacker.com/5953755/what-exactly-is-freedom-of-spe...

So we are not acting as the "thought police" or treading on your rights when we ask you to keep your irrelevant political jabs out of threads having nothing to do with politics. Please take them to OT or, if they are relevant to Baja in some way, to the political forum. We'd like to swim here without running into a turd. At least I would.

LancairDriver - 9-12-2014 at 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
When I say 'new', I mean in traditional terms... not like in the past month. I don't remember them being there before the government change in the U.S. of the current administration.

I figured it was only a matter of time before you would attempt to hijack this thread. Please provide us with a reliable source for your assertion that the signs were not at the border before 2008. Thanks.


DK.....Maybe in an effort to be somewhat more "politically correct" in your future posting of helpful Baja directions, you might consider omitting anything like "turn left" or any mention of the word "left". Possibly instead substitute a compass heading. Our left leaning friends are a little sensitive with the way world events are turning out these days.:lol::lol:

SFandH - 9-12-2014 at 05:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver
Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
When I say 'new', I mean in traditional terms... not like in the past month. I don't remember them being there before the government change in the U.S. of the current administration.

I figured it was only a matter of time before you would attempt to hijack this thread. Please provide us with a reliable source for your assertion that the signs were not at the border before 2008. Thanks.


you might consider omitting anything like "turn left" or any mention of the word "left". Possibly instead substitute a compass heading.


That's a good idea. Whether something is on the left or right depends upon which way you are heading, up or down.

Hope that straightens things out!

Now back to the pleasant topic of shaking down Canadians. Is it true they carry cases of beer from Canada to Mexico for some strange reason?

And what about those bagpipes! eh?

[Edited on 9-13-2014 by SFandH]

David K - 9-12-2014 at 05:25 PM

Wow DanO, I sure hope the surf or fishing picks up. Nobody should be that unhappy!
Lancair, so is 90 degrees left or is it 270 degrees? LOL. Have a nice weekend everyone !

DavidT - 9-12-2014 at 06:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K[/
How about the new signs that warn you not to take over $10,000 out of the U.S. (or some other amount)?


The bank secrecy act was enacted in 1970 requiring financial transactions of over $10,000 to be reported. In 2000 the act was amended to make it mandatory to declare cash carried into or out of the U.S.

From the US customs and border patrol website updated August 20 2014:
There is no limit on the amount of money that can be taken out of or brought into the United States. However, if a person or persons traveling together and filing a joint declaration (CBP Form 6059-B) have $10,000 or more in currency or negotiable monetary instruments, they must fill out a "Report of International Transportation of Currency and Monetary Instruments" FinCEN 105 (former CF 4790).

Signs notifying travelers of the need to declare were posted on San Diego roads ahead of the border in 2005.

[Edited on 9-13-2014 by DavidT]

Bajaboy - 9-12-2014 at 06:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
When I say 'new', I mean in traditional terms... not like in the past month. I don't remember them being there before the government change in the U.S. of the current administration.


Yeah David there's a new sign about taking guns into Mexico as well. What is your point? What is a traditional term? Was there a change in the current administration? I must have missed the election. Does that mean Hillary is president now?

Janzie - 9-13-2014 at 07:52 AM

Quote:
I have no idea about the reliability of the CBC. Maybe the Canadian Nomads can chime in on that.


Just a comment that this story was aired on CBC but originated with the Washington Post. And the examples cited involved Americans, not Canadians.
So far we, as Canadians, have never encountered this, although we often get our RV seriously inspected at the Can/US border.
And we've always felt safer in Mx anyway. ;D

Money grab

Clouseaus - 9-13-2014 at 08:52 AM

Retired Cop here (King County Sheriff which is Seattle). Never heard of such a thing as this money search. Have checked with other retiries and active friends and they haven't heard of this either. If there is "Probable Cause" to believe that someone is a drugge or smuggler it might be different. My two kids are cops here and they have not heard of such a thing either. Sounds like more e-mail "E-krap" to me.

The Military equipment is a bit of overkill but anything we get for free saves that taxpayers money.

monoloco - 9-13-2014 at 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Clouseaus


The Military equipment is a bit of overkill but anything we get for free saves that taxpayers money.
How is it "free"? those $800k MRAPS were paid for by the taxpayer, giving them to law enforcement agencies that have no need for them is nothing but corporate welfare.

grizzlyfsh95 - 9-13-2014 at 09:08 AM

Quote:
How typical. Insert irrelevant political rhetoric (which belongs in OT but you refuse to go there), then sort of but not really walk it back when someone calls you on it, and act like that person is the aggressor. Since you concede that you have no basis for asserting that the signs were erected as part of some insidious plot by the [scare quotes] "current administration," here's a short two-question quiz for you:

1. How is the presence or absence of the signs warning people about a law (31 U.S.C. 5316) that has been on the books since 1982 (during the Reagan administration, ironically) relevant to this discussion?
2. Assuming your unproven premise to be correct, how does the erection of the warning signs by the "current administration" prove that the government is overreaching, which is what this discussion is about? (If this one is too tricky for you, I'll give you a hint: It would actually demonstrate that the "current administration" wants people to be informed about the law so that they don't inadvertently fall victim to forfeiture, which is sort of the opposite of overreaching.)

Thanks. You have a nice day too.




Really:no:

SFandH - 9-13-2014 at 09:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Clouseaus
Retired Cop here (King County Sheriff which is Seattle). Never heard of such a thing as this money search. Have checked with other retiries and active friends and they haven't heard of this either. If there is "Probable Cause" to believe that someone is a drugge or smuggler it might be different. My two kids are cops here and they have not heard of such a thing either. Sounds like more e-mail "E-krap" to me.


Not "E-krap". I'm glad you put "Probable Cause" in quotes. What that means is open to wide interpretation, often based upon bias and prejudice .

What the original article is talking about is:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Civil Asset Forfeiture

Every year, federal and state law enforcement agents seize millions of dollars from civilians during traffic stops, simply by asserting that they believe the money is connected to some illegal activity and without ever pursuing criminal charges. Under federal law and the laws of most states, they are entitled to keep most (and sometimes all) of the money and property they seize.

https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/civil-asset-forfeit...
-----------------------------------------------------------------

It's becoming more and more of a problem as police departments get strapped for money. A new source of revenue for some. The law is being abused by DAs in conjunction with police departments.

Sounds like the Canadian Broadcast Company reporter has just become aware of the issue and apparently didn't research it very well before reporting.

So, during the time you were working as a cop you were never informed about civil asset forfeiture, as opposed to criminal asset forfeiture?

Cisco - 9-19-2014 at 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
Quote:
Originally posted by Clouseaus
Retired Cop here (King County Sheriff which is Seattle). Never heard of such a thing as this money search. Have checked with other retiries and active friends and they haven't heard of this either. If there is "Probable Cause" to believe that someone is a drugge or smuggler it might be different. My two kids are cops here and they have not heard of such a thing either. Sounds like more e-mail "E-krap" to me.


Not "E-krap". I'm glad you put "Probable Cause" in quotes. What that means is open to wide interpretation, often based upon bias and prejudice .

What the original article is talking about is:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Civil Asset Forfeiture

Every year, federal and state law enforcement agents seize millions of dollars from civilians during traffic stops, simply by asserting that they believe the money is connected to some illegal activity and without ever pursuing criminal charges. Under federal law and the laws of most states, they are entitled to keep most (and sometimes all) of the money and property they seize.

https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/civil-asset-forfeit...
-----------------------------------------------------------------

It's becoming more and more of a problem as police departments get strapped for money. A new source of revenue for some. The law is being abused by DAs in conjunction with police departments.

Sounds like the Canadian Broadcast Company reporter has just become aware of the issue and apparently didn't research it very well before reporting.

So, during the time you were working as a cop you were never informed about civil asset forfeiture, as opposed to criminal asset forfeiture?



RICHLAND, MI — A disabled mother and her children were tossed from their home by the government after missing one property tax bill, despite owning the home free-and-clear.

Deborah Calley, a mother of two daughters, paid $164,000 cash for her dream home in 2010. The home was chosen because of convenient location and accessibility; a perfect location for her as she slowly recovers from debilitating injuries following a car accident a few years ago.

The family’s dream home became a nightmare when the Kalamazoo County government declared it to be foreclosed earlier in 2014, leaving the Calleys homeless. Local bureaucrats alleged that three years ago, Ms. Calley did not pay for the privilege to live in the county, a so-called “property tax.” Thus, the government stripped Calley of her home and property.

Ms. Calley is devastated, and claims that she had no idea about the missed property tax bill from 2011, and that she received no warning of the impending property seizure.

“When I paid the taxes in 2012 right there in Richland, no one said, ‘Oh, well you still owe money for 2011,’” said Ms. Calley to WITI. “So, I didn’t really have a clue. I thought I was right on time.”

The disabled mother is in disbelief that the government could take away property that she owned outright because of a tax bill totaling less than $2,000.

“If I had a mortgage, a bank never would’ve let that happen,” said Calley, referring to the single missed payment. “It was a mistake.”

“My life has been turned upside down because of this,” Ms. Calley sobbed. “I had to send my youngest daughter, who’s still in school, to live with her father so she can have a home, because I don’t know if I have a home anymore.”

Ms. Calley offered to pay back-taxes to settle the bill that the county alleges that she owes, but the profiteers of the seizure claim that it is now too late. Adding to the family’s grief is the fact that the foreclosed house has already been auctioned, with the highest bid totaling over $80,000. Barring judicial intervention, the county will keep the proceeds of the auction and the Calley family will get nothing.

The plight of the Calley family serves as a grim reminder of the fragility of property rights in America, and the true nature of property taxation. When citizens are obligated to pay perpetual sums of money to avoid the seizure of their rightly-owned property, they can never consider themselves anything greater than tenants on land controlled by the government.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/deborah-calley-loses-home...

thebajarunner - 9-19-2014 at 02:36 PM

The very first post in this thread takes you to an article that declares "There is no limit to the amount of cash that can be taken in or out of the US" The next sentence should have said "But amounts over $10,000 must be declared" which was not added.

I have probably made 100 international flights out of the Bay Area in the past 30 years. Only once have I seen Feds work a departure lounge on this topic. Some years back at SFO, ready to board for Tokyo, a Fed came into the departure lounge and approached several well dressed individuals, had brief discussions, then departed without looking physically at any of their property. Only once! He did say, loudly upon leaving, "You all do know that it is a Federal offense to leave the country with more than $10,000 in cash without declaring this to the proper authorities!"

The law was aimed at both money laundering and drug cash (perhaps those are one and the same)

Good friend of mine's dad was local area Ford dealer. Dozen years ago he was selling $30,000 pickups to boys coming down out of the hills with suitcases full of cash.

$9,900 down
with weekly payments of $9,900.

Dave spent 18 months at Club Fed for his successful transactions.

Lee - 9-19-2014 at 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DanO
Some rather shocking information and statistics in this CBC piece. It'd be interesting to know whether any Nomads have experienced this.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/american-shakedown-police-won-t...

I have no idea about the reliability of the CBC. Maybe the Canadian Nomads can chime in on that.


Anyone stopped by LE (NOB or SOB) in a vehicle is fitting a profile.

Kinda like Baja -- when you're stopped for being a gringo.

I'll take my chances in MX any day.