Anonymous - 12-20-2004 at 07:10 PM
Is there anyone out there that can give us an idea of the current labor costs for home construction in the
Santa Rosalia - Mulege - Loreto? Also, what is the best way to exchange Dollars to Pesos to pay for the construction, hopefully beating the rapidly
devalued dollar.
Bob and Susan - 12-20-2004 at 07:34 PM
First buy a lot...
Then get your FM3....
Then open a bank account in Mexico...
Then get in touch with a Mexican arcitect in the area you want to build in....
He draws plans and introduces you to a builder....
You pay for what you want...
FM3
Capt. George - 12-20-2004 at 09:04 PM
Necessary to open a bank account first.
Stay away from the Architict
Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2004 at 08:49 AM
I would strongly suggest you Hire someone to do each part of the construction, Pay on a Weekly basis and first learn enough Spanish to understand.
Skeet/Loreto
Bob and Susan - 12-21-2004 at 08:53 AM
wrong wrong wrong wrong
Wrong
Capt. George - 12-21-2004 at 09:00 AM
Bob/Susan,
which wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong are you referring to???
Just put in our application for FM3
Bank Account (U.S.Dolare) was critical, with lots of transactions....Went through an attorney in Santa Rosalia.....
How are the both of you doing??
Bob and Susan - 12-21-2004 at 09:48 AM
Sorry El Vikingo
Skeet is wrong wrong wrong wrong
It has gone up
jrbaja - 12-21-2004 at 09:50 AM
and after doing some investigation it looks as if between $65.00 and $85.00 per square foot is pretty standard in both Baja Norte y Sur.
Now, before some knucklehead chimes in trying to prove me wrong again, these were the prices quoted to us by many architects and builders.
I also happen to know that these prices can be greatly increased or decreased depending on who you are trying to impress with your new Mexican
"mansions".
And on Skeet being wrong
jrbaja - 12-21-2004 at 10:00 AM
depending on your level of artistic abilities and construction knowledge, you probably don't need an architect.
What you do need is to be able to draw the general idea of what you want, play with it for a while until you have it the way you really want it and
take it to an engineer to make it work.
He will also get you the plans and permits, probably have his own construction guys to do the work, or know a dependable crew, and he is licensed
and knowledgable in all aspects of the project.
This saves you about $2000.00 by eliminating the architect.
As far as the weekly pay, it depends on the company doing the work. If you are there supervising your own crew, weekly pay works well. If you have a
company doing it, they will want a deposit and a regular payment schedule set up. Completion of foundation, Pay. Completion of walls, Pay
Completion of roof, Pay
When something goes awry during this payment process, such as them needing a little money not originally scheduled, that's when the trouble
begins!
Anonymous - 12-21-2004 at 10:39 AM
Mike in Los Barriles will tell you $100.00 sq. ft and he has built a lot of nice houses down there.
Jorge
Good point Jorge
jrbaja - 12-21-2004 at 11:09 AM
I wasn't thinking of the east cape or los cabos areas. For some reason or other, those places are a little more costly than the rest of Baja!
Bob and Susan - 12-21-2004 at 11:43 AM
If you build a stick house or bamboo you DONT need an arcitect but.....
if you want it to withstand the WOLF you do.
The accitect acts as the building inspector.
Things are alot different now and gringo construction is audited a lot. It's not like the OLD days...they even have telephones now...
Do it right!!
If you build a stick house or bamboo
jrbaja - 12-21-2004 at 11:54 AM
you hopefully have some experience with construction prior to attepting to fit round pieces together and make em stay that way.
As far as doing it right goes, after running Mexican construction crews for a number of years doing it right, as in gringo homes, it isn't all that
complicated.
An architect knows nothing of structural connections, bearing loads, etc. An engineer does and can get plans approved with your structural safety
in mind rather than the cute drawings an architect will give you for $2000.00.
After building homes in Laguna Niguel (none of them were bamboo!)and down here for about 40 years, and spending the last 6 months dealing with
architects, engineers, inspectors and their cousins, prior to our building anything, I have tried to do my homework on all aspects, rather than basing
all of my knowledge on having built one house!
well......have to jump in here....
capt. mike - 12-21-2004 at 02:38 PM
As a current LICENSED general contractor with both residential and commercial priviledges....(in AZ they are seperated, you might qualify as either,
or both - diff tests bonding and fees)
Let me say it is not fair (JR) to blanket state that Architects are not engineers - many are and in fact can sign off for bldg, structural. If they
don't have structural seal then yes, they hire an outside reviewer for that req'd discipline.
In Mexico, by education, many if not most "architects" have structural training as well as part of their board exams and are in fact "defacto"
engineers, at least for building structure - not mechanical or electrical . Licensed Architects do not merely draw pretty elevations and floor plans -
they typically know, understand, and spec all manner of minimum structural standards in their designs.
Now let me differentiate from "Home planners" or "designers", many of whom i have associated with on custom projects - they can be quite talented as
far as cadd work or even straight board work (Drawing) - but are lot licensed as Architects or engineers - and have to have any of their work
requiring a permit reviewed, and "sealed" by a licensed professional. But they otherwise might be top drawer basic designers.
I know a few top flight mexican Architect-Engineers - they are incredibly talented and i would insist on having one on board any project i was going
to have done for myself as an owner.
As far as doing a job yourself, it is forbidden by law if you are a foreigner. You have to hire and pay locals - that's the treason to use a local
contractor which - yes - might be part of or an "arm" of the architect/engineer.
You can't do any work technically on ypour own nor hire locals and pay them cash under the mesa. The law requires strict accounting and processing of
"facturas" for labor control and taxation.
Bob and Susan have more knowledge than many here i'd say as they do their homework and are undertaking a fairly large project as independents. My
experience comes only from friends who have considerable development experience in mainland and baja - some being large homes and multi family.
Daily,Ongoing Experience
jrbaja - 12-21-2004 at 03:23 PM
in regards to a project we may be doing has led me to talk with so far, 6 architects, 4 engineers, most recently this morning, as well as property
title people, notarios, everybody.
Some of it even involves some "questionable" properties, owners, BS you read in the newspapers, and a whole bunch of reasons for us to be thorough
in this phase of cliff jumping.
One of the issues has been exact property lines. Not that that's a big deal in Mexico hahahahahahaha. Not one of the architects was licensed to
determine the boundaries and they referred us to the numerous engineers we have met with regarding the property.
Perhaps because we drew our own designs, architects were stunned and engineers said that they could take it from our design as far as structural
details, permits, making it happen.
I also have my FM3 stamped for construction (which I am not doing) since working for the studio. So as far as gringos being able to work here, we
can. But, it does pay to be legal, and one would be nut's to not hire local labor for more than one reason, or a legal const. company to do the
building..
I have thoroughly enjoyed meeting all of the architects, we listened to their ideas and they all seemed to me very professional and intelligent.
They were prepared and I'm sure were very good at what they do.
We just found that, they aren't really necessary and $2000.00 buys a lot of tequila hic..... Or bamboo as the case may be.
Land south of Loreto
motana - 12-21-2004 at 03:57 PM
Good to see that you ya"all have some back ground work to do. Fm_3 doesn't find you the place you want to build your home, it 's the peopleand the
water in the front. where the whales come thru. The days that you could not be sure that the land you are buying was going to be yours to re-sale or
pass on to relatives are over. Go thru tha local real estate agency and they will work you thru the way to put your property in a fidio comicio that
the govt. has surveyed. Have paper s on our land ,south of loreto. In ligui, same as the Danzante resort.
Surprisingly enough
jrbaja - 12-21-2004 at 04:11 PM
it's not always quite that easy. Just ask the people from Punta Banda.
What we are dealing with is something quite unusual involving a number of factors which I won't bore your intelligence with.
An FM3 has nothing to do with it other than the fact that I am legal to be a carpenter and run crews, preferably Mexican ones.
motana - 12-21-2004 at 04:16 PM
land down south
motana - 12-21-2004 at 04:26 PM
Punta banda is old story that change of papers between the govt. and the eido were not the same as the papers. That were changed between the home
owners and the real estate co.
land south of loreto
motana - 12-21-2004 at 04:55 PM
First of all ,why do you try to make every one think that it's so HARD to buy land in Mexico. ? ever heard of a change ? They now have phones you can
carry on you walk ....................
Stateside Throphy Home or Palapa
Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2004 at 05:01 PM
Bob and Susan: I would have respected your Post if you would have explained"Wrong" or at least saying In my opinion"
If a person would like to build a Stateside Type Home then your Opinion is Correct, but if a person would like to Build a very good palapa Home then
you do noy need an Archt. only some basis building knowledge and Good judgement of people and their word, Starting with a very good rock foundation
and forgetting about Air cond. and all the fancy stuff from the States.
people nowdays are going to Baja, thiking they can bulid a Huge House and impress more people with their Wealth, could that be True?Skeet/Loreto
tim40 - 12-21-2004 at 05:31 PM
60 to 100/sq ft? Never been a builder etc, etc, etc...but those #s seem high. Do others concur that this is the range for an 'average' place
(whatever that is)?
land in the south
motana - 12-21-2004 at 05:33 PM
Woops. Bob and Susan, There was any thought of disrespect. Can I Ask you do you or anyone know is itpossible to buy land from the eido and transfer
it to a fici comico
As I said in my reply to your u2u
jrbaja - 12-21-2004 at 06:15 PM
and in another thread, I think there are quite possibly some reading comprehension problems here. I won't go into what I think the reason is but I'm
fairly sure that may be a problem for some
But, I am not saying it is hard to buy land here. I said in our case, there have been complications.
The thread is about building in Baja, just in case anyone forgot.
Let me guess, you are a realtor?
Bob and Susan - 12-21-2004 at 06:43 PM
Here is a GREAT article that shows how ejido land can be normalized.
http://www.mexicolaw.com.mx/ejido.html
Until it's normalized you cannot buy it. (period)
Skeet, sorry but palpas are only temporary. One good wind or one little fire and they are gone.
Real Mexicans don't live in Palapas they live in houses. (now this is our opinion) (the rest isn't)
For foreigners to be contractors there are special rules and you must pay social security taxes for employees that work on your project even if you
sub contract.
Today you must be able to pass an audit or risk losing your project.
You should respect this country's rules when building. Your investment would be at risk if you disregard them. (period)
ps we love bamboo stuff.....
Baja Construction
Al G - 12-21-2004 at 07:27 PM
From your post I have not a clue what you are building other then some sort of dwelling. I do not understand how anyone could give you a guess and
nobody could possibly give you an estimate with the information you have supplied. In the U.S. everyone assumes a 2-3 bedroom house. Baja is
completely different. Do you want a palopa roof or tile? Patio on top with palopa? Block construction? frame? 8'-9'-10' Concrete ceiling or beam?
flagstone yard? 6-8Ft perimeter wall? iron gates? Do you need solar? Septic? Water tank? Maybe all we are talking about is a fish camp with patio and
kitchen? Getting money down is not the problem it was. As you can tell most of the people here can assist you and I would go with Baja jr
assessment,(this is only my opinion) but give more information as you may not be on the same page. Without a palopa of some kind are you in Baja or ??
Al G:
Real Mexican Houses
jrbaja - 12-21-2004 at 11:06 PM
jrbaja - 12-21-2004 at 11:08 PM
Arch - VS. - Eng skills
capt. mike - 12-22-2004 at 05:12 AM
JR - i was attempting to differentiate between Structural and Civil disciplines re Architects having "engineering" priviledges. When it comes to the
Civil disciplines i agree Architects are only micro schooled for that and not macro - yes you do need the services of a RCE or RLS for that. But i
still say a good architect is well worth the fee for design. plus , at least where i am researching, several local architects handle the general
contracting which is a boon for total scope and control.
costs - too many variables so i say right now figure a budget at $60 u.s. for SHELL and foundation thru top out and the rest is all a function of
FFand E.
Any one want some help on this e me i have some good references.
Labor costs for home construction
almarps - 12-22-2004 at 11:09 AM
Thanks to all of you for your input, 'tis greatly appreciated. FYI, we do own the property out-right, as my bedda 1/2's mother is from MX, so now
children can get dual-nationality, therein, title to land. As long as she does not leave me after 20 yrs, all is OK on that note. We are building
with all locally available materials & labor / block, concrete, with solar, etc. Essentially putting up a larger, durable version of the Palapa. I
will be staying on the property during the construction with a trailer. First structure up is the garage/storage/RV space, wherein the rigs will be
left in Baja - any easy ideas on leaving US vehicles down there? Currently having bi-lingual plans drawn up with an architect, we will be using local
Loreto-Mulege-Santa Rosalia workers, paying them weekly, I know that 10-yrs ago one could get a good stone/mason(albanal) for around $15 per day -
what would the going rate be nowadays? We are trying to budget and do not wish to get too beat-up in the process. Home is to be built on Conception.
Don Alley - 12-22-2004 at 08:34 PM
Any figures or estimates on the square ft costs of building must be based on what kind of house you are building.
There are some nice new homes here in Loreto that apparently used an architect and cost a lot more money than I can afford.
I'm living in a new, nice but modest, 1 bedroom home 90% reconstructed from an existing building. New roof, floor, 80% new walls, wiring, plumbing,
nice two-part air conditioners, and more.
Fiberglass/asbestos roof. Rock patio, with circular "umbrella" palapa and a fountain. Tile floor inside. We used a local builder. My wife drew up
rough plans. From that, more formal plans were drawn up by a local man for the city building permit office, where he also worked so approval was a
slam dunk. The work was all similar or identical to work this builder and his crew had done before. Concrete block, stuccoed inside and out, white
paint (we add color at our expense).
The result was a solid, comfortable home in a central Loreto neighborhood. Doesn't stand out too much from the other homes, I hope. Certainly nothing
fancy, but the lot has room for a small guest casita (finished, at a similar cost per square foot) and has room for a future studio and workshop,
which in total will result in some pretty cool digs IMO.
And in terms of structural integrity, safety and comfort, I'd rate this place above our Kalispell Montana home.
And the cost per square foot was substantially below all of the figures reported on this thread. No way could we afford $85-$100 per square foot.
So I don't think Skeet is that far off.
It may take a while to scout out just who to hire to do and/or oversee the work. Yet the longer you wait, the higher the costs. Wages are creeping a
bit higher. The cost of materials is going up rapidly.
There is more affordable middle ground between the palatial showplaces and the basic palapas.
Don
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Al G - 12-22-2004 at 09:23 PM
Go ahead build a bomb shelter, or live your life. Fire is apart of our lives. I lost everything ( well that is what i thought in 1998) when a fire
gutted my manufacturing plant. A close and dear friend lost his $900.000 tile roof house. 2 different employees lost everything ( and no insurance) in
an apartment fire (1- shake 1- tile roof). How many of all the total losses in U.S. fires would you guess were from a fire starting by a palapa
roof???? Palapa dangerous? Yes!!! You build palapas on top of palapas, as in RV camps or anywhere you have dominoes ready to fall and you should keep
a supply of marshmallows handy. A kitchen with a palapa may not be the best ideal. Do not build a monument to yourself with with a palapa roof.
Mexico has little fire protection infrastructure. This is something gringos should put a few of their construction bucks toward. Ignore where you are
and you will turn Baja into a suburb of California. A good contractor can always find ways to make anything work without being dangerous. I think
jrbaja has a better grasp on Baja, then most people, and the feel for what is right IMO. I have more then 30 years in construction and if I needed an
answer to something important about Baja, I think I would ask him first. I have never met him, but read a lot of his posts.
Al G 
Labor costs for home construction
almarps - 12-22-2004 at 09:53 PM
Thanks again for all the input - What are some of the best internet srvs for those off the grid laptops/computers y'all are using? Currently shopping
for the best bang for the peso when on-line during construction this winter.
Almarps
Skeet/Loreto - 12-29-2004 at 02:26 PM
My wife and I built a very well structured Palapa on the Beach North of Loreto. We brought in Gravel, put in 2 and 1/2 deep by Wide Rock Walls with
Columns. Some of the rock used was from the Cave Paintings near San Nicalos.
We constructed a Oja Roof of 13,000 Ojasa, treated for Fire and Scorpions, termites, we had 67 Handmade on the spot Wood windows, we had inside wall
that seperated the Bedrooms. We hired 3 guys to come up and put in 2,000 Sq. Feet of Tile, our Cabniets were hand made out of Cuidad Constitution,
Lighing fistures were Leaded, made by an old couple near by.
This was constructed for about $22,000, hiring our Mexican Friends at about $10 a Day. We also Helped.
If you want to take time you can do the same, but would cost about Double. Do not believe anyone who says you cannot do it. It just take time, and a
little Thought.
We had 6 Fans, never had a need for AC, sometimes used a small Heater for the Shower. We were there 17 years and loved every minute.
Good Luck
Palapa on Conception
almarps - 12-30-2004 at 09:49 AM
Thanks for the input, sounds like you built what we are thinking about. What is the 'Oja' materials you spoke of? Is there any way to view the one
you built? Thanks for your time, Happy New Year.
almarps
"Ojas"
Skeet/Loreto - 12-30-2004 at 10:37 AM
Palm Leaves that are cut from the Fan palm, soaked in the estuary, striped and laid at 45 per Meter as the Roof.
You can see this palapa which was known as "Rancho Sonrisa" on the Beach North of Loreto between two of the most Expensive Trophy Homes in all of
Baja.
Skeet/Loreto