BajaNomad

Fuel prices for December 2014...

BajaCactus - 12-5-2014 at 07:11 PM

New fuel prices starting on December 6th, 2014...

Magna.............$ 13.31 pesos per liter
Premium..........$ 14.11 pesos per liter
Diesel..............$ 13.94 pesos per liter

These prices are in liters... since 1 gallon = 3.7854 liters and today (December 5th, 2014) 1 dollar = $13.00 pesos (+/-), we can calculate the approximate price per gallon:

Magna.............$ 3.875 dollars per gallon
Premium..........$ 4.108 dollars per gallon
Diesel..............$ 4.059 dollars per gallon

BajaCactus

Hook - 12-5-2014 at 07:20 PM

You wouldnt believe how full the municipal buses are now in Guaymas. Only rich Mexicans and gringos can afford this.

My Jeep Wrangler used to cost right at 500 pesos to fill when I moved down here in 2008. Yesterday I got 850 pesos in it.

Thanks for posting this, Antonio.

DaliDali - 12-5-2014 at 08:01 PM

Mr. Antonio aka Baja Cactus

Can you explain to us why it is that when world oil/gas prices are dropping quickly, the price of Pemex fuel is constantly increasing?

Is Mexico crude oil not a part of world oil markets and does not have to compete with other oil producing nations worldwide?

Respectfully.......dalidali

Casey67 - 12-5-2014 at 08:26 PM

Hook, the Pemex on HWY1 in Mulege could probably get 1100 pesos of gas into your Jeep :) They managed to get 1400 pesos into my minivan once, and I can fill it in town or Loreto for 850-900.

Sooo, 3.875 + ~20% shortage = $4.65 a gallon converted to CDN$ gives you $5.32 a gallon, or $1.40 a litre. Right now in Vancouver it's $1.15 a litre, sheesh.

WhackAMolE - 12-5-2014 at 09:28 PM

Regular was $2.99/gallon in San Ysidro today, Friday 12/05. Can't remember the last time I saw gas that cheap.

[Edited on 12-6-2014 by WhackAMolE]

Government fixed pricing

akshadow - 12-5-2014 at 09:37 PM

We benefited when the government held the price below market prices and gasoline and diesel were cheaper in Mexico than in California. Since price did not follow market before why should we expect it to follow market prices now?

Tioloco - 12-5-2014 at 09:43 PM

Good point AK.

Hook - 12-5-2014 at 09:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by akshadow  
We benefited when the government held the price below market prices and gasoline and diesel were cheaper in Mexico than in California. Since price did not follow market before why should we expect it to follow market prices now?


Because when the pricing subsidy was lifted and the government decided to increase fuels by 0.1 peso per liter per month, it was stated that it would do this until it reached a true market pricing level.

Well, the true market pricing of gasoline is well below these levels.

But, as we all know, the Mexican govt needs Pemex income to run the country. That's why they are artificially high. It's a monopoly and they can price it where they want.

bajabuddha - 12-5-2014 at 11:28 PM

Y'all please note, the huge improvements to Hwy 1 are not paved by sales tax on groceries. Enjoy those shoulders, where the semi's can ride far right on the uphill, and you can actually SEE surrounding countryside for part of the trip. Too bad the peckerhead with the grocery cart wasn't paying his fair share. But, i'm sure he made up for it by telling his stories around the campfires while bumming his free meals along the way.

Fuel prices compared to worldwide prices...

BajaCactus - 12-6-2014 at 12:58 AM

Dalidali,

The answer to your question is very complex and I am not sure even I fully understand it since it depend in the global market fluctuations. However the two main reasons why fuel in Mexico keeps increasing are:

1.- Even though Mexico has its own crude oil, Pemex does not have the capacity to refine it into usable fuel, therefore it has to pay other countries like the US and Japan to refine it for them, therefore making it much more expensive to produce fuel than if it had its own refineries in Mexico.

2.- The second reason, which I believe is the main one, is that over 70% of the final price to the public of fuel are taxes, not the real cost of producing it. Therefore what we are really seeing increase month by month are really taxes that go directly to the federal government.

There are many other factors, but I believe these are the main ones that impact the cost of fuel in Mexico.

BajaCactus

Whale-ista - 12-6-2014 at 03:31 AM

BajaCactus: Thank you for that reply. Presumably some of those taxes are earmarked for transportation projects that benefit tourism, commerce etc.

While oil prices may fluctuate on the global market, taxes imposed by different states/countries also impact actual cost per liter or gallon.

Another post mentions how recent Baja highway improvements are funded via taxes on gas. This is the same in the US and for decades gas taxes have funded interstate highway construction and maintenance. (Ironically as vehicles become more fuel efficient these funds have declined.)

DaliDali - 12-6-2014 at 06:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaCactus  
Dalidali,

The answer to your question is very complex and I am not sure even I fully understand it since it depend in the global market fluctuations. However the two main reasons why fuel in Mexico keeps increasing are:

1.- Even though Mexico has its own crude oil, Pemex does not have the capacity to refine it into usable fuel, therefore it has to pay other countries like the US and Japan to refine it for them, therefore making it much more expensive to produce fuel than if it had its own refineries in Mexico.

2.- The second reason, which I believe is the main one, is that over 70% of the final price to the public of fuel are taxes, not the real cost of producing it. Therefore what we are really seeing increase month by month are really taxes that go directly to the federal government.

There are many other factors, but I believe these are the main ones that impact the cost of fuel in Mexico.

BajaCactus


Thank you Baja Cactus.....

Can you say with any certainty how the refined fuels from Mexican crude get to Baja California?

Are there pipelines from the San Diego/Mexicali area supplying Northern Baja or is it all brought across with fuel tanker trucks?
Or shipped via ocean tanker ship and off loaded at the Rosarito Beach tank farm facility?

How far south, in Baja CA, does the refined gasoline/diesel fuels reach, if brought in from the northern border with the USA, either by pipeline, tanker truck or ocean tanker ships?

In Baja Sur, (Guerrero Negro on down) how do they get their refined product? Is there even a "cut off" line where the supply tanker trucks stay either north or south of?

Does it come up from the Port of Pichilingue in La Paz or from the Port of San Carlos (Pacific Side) in tanker trucks or both?

And does the Port of San Carlos get the refined product via tanker ships from the USA or Japan or both?

About the ultra low sulfur diesel fuels, does or can the USA side refineries have the ability to ship either ULS diesel or the less highly refined low sulfur blend on demand?

Would you know if the refined diesel product, that is brought in from Japan, is of the ULS blend type.....assuming that Japan even exports diesel fuels?

Respectfully.......dali dali

Bob and Susan - 12-6-2014 at 07:00 AM

so many questions...so little time

Timo1 - 12-6-2014 at 07:55 AM

What is the diesel price doing in the US ??

And how does the price there compare to Baja price ??

David K - 12-6-2014 at 08:27 AM

Not sure on diesel, but I can tell you many stations in San Diego County are now below $3 for regular. $2.85 at Costco and ARCO stations yesterday. Diesel and Premium had been close in price, so under $3.50/ gallon would be possible?

Pescador - 12-6-2014 at 08:45 AM

Fuel from the north only comes down the peninsula as far as El Rosario, which would be Baja Cactus. Beyond that, the fuel is transported from the terminal at La Paz (Pichilingue). So imagine a system where the government sets the prices of fuel, of taxes, and does all of this with no refineries, and you get the very high cost of fuel that we are now experiencing. For all of those who think this is terrible for the tourists who grumble a little, imagine what the locals are doing to try to cope. I had a friend with me the other day and he almost passed out when I filled my truck to the tune of $1500 which looked like an "Impossible Dream" where he usually does 20-50 pesos at a time, when he can.

DaliDali - 12-6-2014 at 09:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Pescador  
Fuel from the north only comes down the peninsula as far as El Rosario, which would be Baja Cactus. Beyond that, the fuel is transported from the terminal at La Paz (Pichilingue). So imagine a system where the government sets the prices of fuel, of taxes, and does all of this with no refineries, and you get the very high cost of fuel that we are now experiencing. For all of those who think this is terrible for the tourists who grumble a little, imagine what the locals are doing to try to cope. I had a friend with me the other day and he almost passed out when I filled my truck to the tune of $1500 which looked like an "Impossible Dream" where he usually does 20-50 pesos at a time, when he can.



Do you happen to know how that fuel gets to Baja from the USA?
Pipeline, tanker truck or by tanker ship, to the Rosarito Beach tank farms and then out from there?

If what Baja Cactus has to say about the taxes on fuel is correct, it seems 70% of the cost per liter is a massive hit for locals and tourists alike who use fuel, even by California standards.

Parlay that tax with the recently implemented 16% VAT in all of Baja, someone could be flush with tax pesos.

bajabuddha - 12-6-2014 at 10:57 AM

Dali, no offense meant; your questions for BC are a little over-the-top; he's a station owner. It's like asking a grocer what pesticides were specifically used on his tomatoes and the exact watering schedule, and how they were shipped from field to warehouse.

Suffice it to say it's tax moneys for certain, and it's in Mexico. California's 'standards' have nothing to do with it. Yes, someone IS flush with tax pesos, or not. Guess you'll just have to pay it.... or not. As Pescador says, the locals are the ones hurting the most. They put in what they can, when they can, and walk.... a lot.

Timo:
Diesel in the western US (according to gasbuddy.com) is running a little over a buck a gallon compared to regular; highway stations in AZ about $2.30/gal at present, 20-50 cents flux depending on location. Some diesel as high as $3.79 - $4.

rts551 - 12-6-2014 at 11:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timo1  
What is the diesel price doing in the US ??

And how does the price there compare to Baja price ??


to answer your question....$3.25 in Tucson.

wilderone - 12-6-2014 at 11:22 AM

Just my dos centavos, re: "Baja highway improvements are funded via taxes on gas"
It is my understanding that the cost you pay when you get a tourist visa is supposed to be for highway improvements (probably among other things as well).

DaliDali - 12-6-2014 at 12:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
Dali, no offense meant; your questions for BC are a little over-the-top; he's a station owner. It's like asking a grocer what pesticides were specifically used on his tomatoes and the exact watering schedule, and how they were shipped from field to warehouse.

Suffice it to say it's tax moneys for certain, and it's in Mexico. California's 'standards' have nothing to do with it. Yes, someone IS flush with tax pesos, or not. Guess you'll just have to pay it.... or not. As Pescador says, the locals are the ones hurting the most. They put in what they can, when they can, and walk.... a lot.

Timo:
Diesel in the western US (according to gasbuddy.com) is running a little over a buck a gallon compared to regular; highway stations in AZ about $2.30/gal at present, 20-50 cents flux depending on location. Some diesel as high as $3.79 - $4.


No offense taken BajaBudda.

However, as a owner of a business, I would think that they would want to know where their supplies come from and how they get to his place of business. Be it tomatoes or condoms.

Granted, that business owner might not want to know the exact chemical makeup of the product he/she is buying......and especially when that business owner is limited to one supplier and it's a "take it as it is" situation or go without. Which in this case, is exactly what Baja Cactus is dealing with.

Those transport costs are built into his/her price they pay for that product and I would want to know the in's and out's as much as possible about that. If Baja Cactus cares or not, is none of my concern.

What I would like to know, out of curiosity's sake, is how that refined fuel gets to Baja Norte.
Bus, tanker trucks, pipeline or tanker ships?

I can agree "pay it or not". It is that simple, but curious none the less, how Pemex can justify (something to do with because they can I am sure) a 70% sales tax rate on each and every liter sold.

I and many others, live here year round and maintain homes here and go fishing here. We have no option to choose between an Arco station or a Chevron station like you do up there in New Mexico.

Infrequent tourists or part time residents in or to Baja, do not have the impact of these prices as much as full timers do.

A "now and again" trip to Baja is much less impactful, as far as fuel costs go, than what a full time resident has to deal with..day in and day out. And with no end in sight on the monthly increases, it does make it a cause of concern.....with or without a fat wallet/bank account.

The California comparison was only for amusement purposes only.....CA, known for ultra high everything, has LESS taxes on fuel than Mexico, if the 70% tax rate is correct..... I am still trying to get my head around that.

Bottom line is I and others who live here full time have zero choices, pay the price or ride a bicycle, whereas you have choices.

When it comes to living costs, be it fuel or tomatoes, it makes zero difference if one is a native born citizen or an immigrant.
Costs are costs, and as such, should be monitored as best as one cares to monitor them.

Pescador - 12-6-2014 at 03:36 PM

I am sure that Antonio will chime in and I can burroure you that he knows very well how the fuel reaches them. I do know that there is a large receiver tank in Ensenada, but I have no first hand knowledge of how it is distributed.

In Baja California Sur, I happen to have met one of the distributors in our area and this is a really big business. But again, it is tightly controlled and monitored by the government. They used to pay a portion of the cost, but the new Pena-Neto administration is cutting subsidies all over the place so that they can put more money in the coffers of the govt. There is talk that they are going to cut the subsidy to Electric bills also after the first of the year, but I do not know that as a fact, only hearing rumors, which have an uncanny way of growing down here.

When I used to buy diesel for a large boat I was part owners on, we paid exactly the same price from the tanker as the gas station charged. So that was a good indication of strong controls where they could have ripped off the buyer for extra dollars.

Whale-ista - 12-6-2014 at 03:51 PM

Could be- not sure how these funds are allocated/managed at the federal level, since FMM's are issued at all ports of entry, not just into Baja.

Also, some MX fees/taxes are directly related to the activity: when you pay to use toll roads, driver/passengers receive insurance coverage for damages to vehicle that happen while driving along that stretch of highway (if the damage is caused by road conditions).

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  
Just my dos centavos, re: "Baja highway improvements are funded via taxes on gas"
It is my understanding that the cost you pay when you get a tourist visa is supposed to be for highway improvements (probably among other things as well).


[Edited on 12-6-2014 by Whale-ista]

bajagrouper - 12-6-2014 at 04:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaCactus  
Dalidali,

The answer to your question is very complex and I am not sure even I fully understand it since it depend in the global market fluctuations. However the two main reasons why fuel in Mexico keeps increasing are:

1.- Even though Mexico has its own crude oil, Pemex does not have the capacity to refine it into usable fuel, therefore it has to pay other countries like the US and Japan to refine it for them, therefore making it much more expensive to produce fuel than if it had its own refineries in Mexico.

2.- The second reason, which I believe is the main one, is that over 70% of the final price to the public of fuel are taxes, not the real cost of producing it. Therefore what we are really seeing increase month by month are really taxes that go directly to the federal government.

There are many other factors, but I believe these are the main ones that impact the cost of fuel in Mexico.

BajaCactus



!. When I drive through out Mexico and pass or see huge refineries in the states of Veracruz, Tabasco and Chaipas I can only guess they are producing gas...

2. Ever heard of graft and corruption? I bet thats where the raise goes every month, those 9 centavo raises add up.......

David K - 12-7-2014 at 04:17 PM

$2.75 today at Costco San Marcos.

chuckie - 12-7-2014 at 05:08 PM

I thought graft and corruption only existed in the USA? they have it in Mexico? I am appalled....Bought farm diesel this morning at my Kansas Co-op 3.17/gallon....Killed 2 pheasants/ 2 prairie chickens, nice day.....

rts551 - 12-7-2014 at 05:28 PM

Fuel in China is $1.28 per litre.

chuckie - 12-7-2014 at 05:36 PM

No chit?

willardguy - 12-7-2014 at 05:39 PM

is philip rivers going to dismantle tom brady's patriots?

Ateo - 12-7-2014 at 06:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy  
is philip rivers going to dismantle tom brady's patriots?


No. He's 0-5 against Brady.

rts551 - 12-7-2014 at 06:14 PM

Is he running on ethanol?

willardguy - 12-7-2014 at 06:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo  
Quote: Originally posted by willardguy  
is philip rivers going to dismantle tom brady's patriots?


No. He's 0-5 against Brady.


that just means he's due!;)

Ateo - 12-7-2014 at 06:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
$2.75 today at Costco San Marcos.


Was at the main (unnamed) gasoline terminal in LA last month. A technician mentioned they were currently supplying Arco, Shell, USA, Costco, and even Chevron - temporarily while one of their terminals was down. Just a random post that I thought was interesting.

David K - 12-7-2014 at 09:14 PM

What does that mean Jon? The same gas goes to all those different distributors? Thanks.

Ateo - 12-7-2014 at 09:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
What does that mean Jon? The same gas goes to all those different distributors? Thanks.


Yes. Same gas goes to all - each with their own special additive - depending on the brand.



bajabuddha - 12-7-2014 at 10:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy  
is philip rivers going to dismantle tom brady's patriots?


NEENER.

Bob H - 12-7-2014 at 10:46 PM

You need gas wherever you need it. You pay. Period! In Europe is like $8 a gallon!

David K - 12-8-2014 at 08:48 AM

Jon, one more question... I understand brands like Chevron may add Techron and Shell adds Nitrogen or ?, etc., but is the ethanol % the same for them all or does places like ARCO and COSTCO have more ethanol than Chevron or Shell IF they come from the same terminal?

Thank you!

still cheaper than Canada

durrelllrobert - 12-8-2014 at 09:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaCactus  
New fuel prices starting on December 6th, 2014...

Magna.............$ 13.31 pesos per liter
Premium..........$ 14.11 pesos per liter
Diesel..............$ 13.94 pesos per liter

These prices are in liters... since 1 gallon = 3.7854 liters and today (December 5th, 2014) 1 dollar = $13.00 pesos (+/-), we can calculate the approximate price per gallon:

Magna.............$ 3.875 dollars per gallon
Premium..........$ 4.108 dollars per gallon
Diesel..............$ 4.059 dollars per gallon

BajaCactus
Current price in Vancouver = $1.14/ liter = $4.32/gal and $1.18/ liter in Montreal = $4.47/gal

[Edited on 12-8-2014 by durrelllrobert]

[Edited on 12-8-2014 by durrelllrobert]

rts551 - 12-8-2014 at 09:22 AM

Thanks Baja Cactus for the Baja fuel prices. Keep em coming.

rts551 - 2-8-2015 at 06:25 PM

Boy are things different now