BajaNomad

On buying farm/ranch acreage in Baja

DebMer - 3-8-2015 at 09:52 AM

My husband and I are leaning toward moving to Mexico in about 8 years. Ideally, we'd like to buy some acreage on which to do small-scale organic gardening, have some livestock (maybe 4 horses, 3 or 4 goats, possibly a cow, chickens, rabbits), with space to enjoy horseback riding, too. The garden/ranch aspect would be mostly to accommodate our own needs, although extra to give away or sell wouldn't be a bad thing.

What are some likely areas to take into consideration for this type of set-up? Ideally it would be within maybe 30 miles of a city for the sake of convenience, and becaise I'd like to have the possibility of teaching ESL classes part-time for several years before retiring. This could be in Baja or other parts of Mexico.

Thanks ahead of time for any suggestions you can offer!

David K - 3-8-2015 at 09:57 AM

Rancho Concepcion, or as it was called the past few years, Baja Dark Skies Inn... It's for sale!

Edit, well maybe not close enough to a city... but a paved road is only a few miles away...
Here is AstroBaja's ad:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=76975

[Edited on 3-8-2015 by David K]

Mula - 3-8-2015 at 10:00 AM

San Javier outside of Loreto.

DENNIS - 3-8-2015 at 10:11 AM


There was/is a limit on the amount of acreage a foreigner could purchase, even with a bank trust. Don't let anyone tell you different until you look into it.
One hectaria is [+-] 2.5 acres and if memory serves, one hectaria was that limit.
Of course, Mexico is the land of exceptions, but those just leave you vulnerable.
Be careful.

SFandH - 3-8-2015 at 10:36 AM

Look into the valley west of Mulege. Nice ranch land, close to town. Careful tho, flooding is a problem as is ejido land. If you don't know about ejido land, research it.

David K - 3-8-2015 at 10:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS  

There was/is a limit on the amount of acreage a foreigner could purchase, even with a bank trust. Don't let anyone tell you different until you look into it.
One hectaria is [+-] 2.5 acres and if memory serves, one hectaria was that limit.
Of course, Mexico is the land of exceptions, but those just leave you vulnerable.
Be careful.


Then how did AstroBaja do it (Canadian)? I asked him to clarify the question, but no reply yet.
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Mike, would you mind telling us Americans or Canadians what paperwork or method is needed to buy that property since we are not Mexican citizens? Is it a corporation that holds the land and 'anyone' can buy the corporation and is a residence and business visa also part of the conditions?
Thank you!

I ask because a lot of us hear that real ownership is a risk in Mexico, and knowing the safeguards just might sweeten the deal?


[Edited on 3-8-2015 by David K]

LaTijereta - 3-8-2015 at 12:04 PM

You would be able to own through a Mexican Corporation..

Here is a nice site near San Ignacio..

http://www.misionloreto.com/gorgeous-improved-property-fruit...

Cliffy - 3-8-2015 at 12:04 PM

My Great Uncle had a vegetable farm near Mexicali before WWI but he was run out of Mexico in the middle of the night by Pancho Villa.
Absolutely true story.

bajaguy - 3-8-2015 at 12:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DebMer  
My husband and I are leaning toward moving to Mexico in about 8 years. Ideally, we'd like to buy some acreage .........Ideally it would be within maybe 30 miles of a city for the sake of convenience...........





Please define your idea of a city and what city amenities you would like.....and does being close to the border play any part in your selection criteria???

ElCap - 3-8-2015 at 12:14 PM

Yes, that's our property in San Ignacio that's for sale. U2U me if you want more info on ownership, etc. We own land as a Mexican corporation.

http://www.misionloreto.com/gorgeous-improved-property-fruit...

Bruce R Leech - 3-8-2015 at 12:21 PM

Rancho El Tecolote, a little over 60 acres of flat sandy loam land 4 miles west of Mulege. 300 gal per min water well . 60,000 usd. u2u for info.

DENNIS - 3-8-2015 at 02:34 PM



"My husband and I are leaning toward moving to Mexico in about 8 years"
==========================

Doesn't sound like they're in the market quite yet.

DENNIS - 3-8-2015 at 02:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS  

There was/is a limit on the amount of acreage a foreigner could purchase, even with a bank trust. Don't let anyone tell you different until you look into it.
One hectaria is [+-] 2.5 acres and if memory serves, one hectaria was that limit.
Of course, Mexico is the land of exceptions, but those just leave you vulnerable.
Be careful.


Then how did AstroBaja do it (Canadian)? I asked him to clarify the question, but no reply yet.
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Mike, would you mind telling us Americans or Canadians what paperwork or method is needed to buy that property since we are not Mexican citizens? Is it a corporation that holds the land and 'anyone' can buy the corporation and is a residence and business visa also part of the conditions?
Thank you!

I ask because a lot of us hear that real ownership is a risk in Mexico, and knowing the safeguards just might sweeten the deal?

================================

David.....your question didn't ask for clarification to my statement. I know of the various methods of acquiring land by a foreigner. My question was , how much land is allowed?
There were limitations, and I'm willing to go all in saying there still are.



.






[Edited on 3-8-2015 by DENNIS]

Bruce R Leech - 3-8-2015 at 03:14 PM

Mexican corporation.

durrelllrobert - 3-8-2015 at 04:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LaTijereta  
You would be able to own through a Mexican Corporation..

Here is a nice site near San Ignacio..

http://www.misionloreto.com/gorgeous-improved-property-fruit...

This property would also be ideal for renting improved spaces (maybe as many as 20) consisting if a covered patio slab with a solar panel and water tank on roof. They would be rented by the year to RV owners that want a place to camp during the season and store their motor home the rest of the time. Good income potential and still plenty of land for you to do what you want to do.

DebMer - 3-8-2015 at 04:30 PM

Thank you to everybody who has contributed to answering my question!

David K - re. Rancho Concepcion, I wish! Beautiful! I'm sure it will be sold before we're ready, but wow! It does look like it's some type of nature preserve, which means there are likely to be limits imposed on agricultural use, so even if the timing and price were right, I'm not sure something like that would meet our needs.

Mula, I'll look into the San Javier area. Thanks!

Dennis, I just spent maybe 30 minutes trying to find the exact number of acres a foreigner can own in Mexico, and the information is a bit elusive. I think this link provides a type of guide: http://www.mexicolaw.com/LawInfo16.htm It looks here that by way of Mexican corporation, one can own 100 acres of agrarian land for livestock use, more for various types of farming. Of course when the time comes, we'll need to consult with professionals, but for now that can be a sort of guideline for me.

SFandH, thank you for a tip on possible land near Mulege. I spent a few minutes researching ejido land, and it appears that more and more ejido land is becoming available for private sale through its dis-incorporation and title release to the ejido community members who hold parcels. In reference to flooding, is this specific to the Mulege area?

LaTijerita, thanks for the tip and the link!

Clifford, rumor has surfaced that Pancho Villa's death was faked, and that he is coming after the descendents of those he chased away. Watch your back! :biggrin:

Bajaguy, proximity to the border might be a convenience in terms of family visits, but wouldn't override other considerations. Being near a city would have certain advantages if I end up teaching for a few years before retirement. I think it would also add appeal to my kids, and maybe other visitors. I'm not so much interested in being near a Walmart or Costco or expat communities.

Bruce R. Leech, thanks for the tip on Rancho El Tecolote. Do you have a link to a description of the property?

durrellrobert, I appreciate your ideas for income potential. Thank you.



[Edited on 3-19-2015 by DebMer]

DebMer - 3-8-2015 at 04:40 PM

Oh my goodness, I'm officially in love with that San Ignacio property!!!

SFandH - 3-8-2015 at 07:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DebMer  


SFandH, thank you for a tip on possible land near Mulege. I spent a few minutes researching ejido land, and it appears that more and more ejido land is becoming available for private sale through its dis-incorporation and title release to the ejido community members who hold parcels. In reference to flooding, is this specific to the Mulege area?


Ejidos can go through a privatization process where members of the ejido get titles to lots after surveying is complete. The property then switches to private property. Make sure you know all about it.

Areas in the valley west of Mulege flood during tropical storms.

Hire a bilingual Mexican attorney to represent your interests before you sign any papers. They can be found in the larger cities on the peninsula.

DebMer - 3-8-2015 at 07:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  


Ejidos can go through a privatization process where members of the ejido get titles to lots after surveying is complete. The property then switches to private property. Make sure you know all about it.

Areas in the valley west of Mulege flood during tropical storms.

Hire a bilingual Mexican attorney to represent your interests before you sign any papers. They can be found in the larger cities on the peninsula.


Yes, I definitely see the wisdom in having legal representation in a home purchase abroad.

DENNIS - 3-9-2015 at 08:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DebMer  
Thank you to everybody who has contributed to answering my question!


Dennis, I just spent maybe 30 minutes trying to find the exact number of acres a foreigner can own in Mexico, and the information is a bit elusive. I think this link provides a type of guide: http://www.mexicolaw.com/LawInfo16.htm It looks here that by way of Mexican corporation, one can own 100 acres of agrarian land for livestock use, more for various types of farming.


Corporations must be formed and maintained by set standards. One doesn't go down and join the club. Some here[and elsewhere] make it sound so simple, but it's a process.
Good luck on your adventure.

wilderone - 3-9-2015 at 09:10 AM

I had a friend who had such a place in Teopisca - just south of San Cristobal de las Casas. He grew organic vegetables and sold them to a restaurant in San Cristobal. Had an irrigation system - view toward old unexcavated Mayan mounds. Very charminig. He bought his 5 acres (with house) or so for about $15,000. Six years later, after building a concrete block workshop and adding a room to the house, he sold it for $30,000. These are cash deals. I don't know about any licenses he had for selling his produce.

motoged - 3-9-2015 at 11:30 AM

Dreams seem to morph over time.....it will be interesting to get a report back in 8 years and see how and where the visions materialized....:coolup:

Fernweh - 3-9-2015 at 12:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
Dreams seem to morph over time.....it will be interesting to get a report back in 8 years and see how and where the visions materialized....:coolup:


Dreams are important:

March 2013:


August 2013:


August 2014:


March 2015:
Why didn't I start with this dream earlier....?


DebMer - 3-9-2015 at 12:49 PM

Wow, Fernweh! :bounce: Thanks for the encouragement!

DebMer - 3-9-2015 at 12:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  
I had a friend who had such a place in Teopisca - just south of San Cristobal de las Casas. He grew organic vegetables and sold them to a restaurant in San Cristobal. Had an irrigation system - view toward old unexcavated Mayan mounds. Very charminig. He bought his 5 acres (with house) or so for about $15,000. Six years later, after building a concrete block workshop and adding a room to the house, he sold it for $30,000. These are cash deals. I don't know about any licenses he had for selling his produce.


Nice. In our case, I'm hoping it will be a long-term situation, but nice that he improved and sold it for profit.

DebMer - 3-15-2015 at 12:46 PM

A related question to my original topic:

Are there parts of Baja that are especially horse-oriented?

bajaguy - 3-15-2015 at 02:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DebMer  
A related question to my original topic:

Are there parts of Baja that are especially horse-oriented?





Before you get too horse involved in Baja I would see if there was a Veterinarian in the area you are interested in that has experience with large animals, especially equines........can't be too careful

DENNIS - 3-15-2015 at 03:53 PM


Ensenada has some legit horse activities....Chareadas.......sprint races with expensive stock, for instance.

monoloco - 3-15-2015 at 08:26 PM

I know a lot of folks around here that keep horses with no problems. Access to hay and plenty of vets.

DebMer - 3-15-2015 at 09:44 PM

Wow, great! Awesome link!

Trail rides are about my speed, but my daughters like to compete in barrel racing-type Gymkhana stuff. Can't wait to show them the amigoshombresacaballo page.

DebMer - 3-15-2015 at 09:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS  

Ensenada has some legit horse activities....Chareadas.......sprint races with expensive stock, for instance.


So far no expensive stock for us. We have had two horses given to us in the past year - one a quarter/percheron mix with PSSM, and the other a foundation quarterhorse on the brink of starvation. We're new at horse ownership, but have a fantastic trainer/mentor, and a great little family Gymkhana club, and feel like we've entered a little section of Paradise.