BajaNomad - Does the Sea of Cortez stand a chance??

Does the Sea of Cortez stand a chance??

no. it is already toast.

for a recent book that describes some of the changes, read "TELLING OUR WAY TO THE SEA, A Voyage of Discovery in the Sea of Cortez"

SFandH - 3-17-2015 at 04:22 PM

That's my feeling too. It's going to be raped until it's dead. It might come back after, maybe. Geez, I'm generally an optimist.

Does anybody know? Are there regulations in place that are being enforced that will prevent over-fishing, pollution?

[Edited on 3-17-2015 by SFandH]

bajabuddha - 3-17-2015 at 04:31 PM

True article, except for the fact that the author is no journalist or wordsmith by any means. Again, (personal pet peeve) they use the word "decimate" in the same sentence as "almost totally gone" describing species destruction.

"DECIMATE" is derived from Latin and means, "Reduced By One-Tenth". It has such a strong ring to it, but takes away credibility from the writer.

Enough soap-box. The rest is true, except from the quote about the shrimpers tossing 4 lbs of jetsam for every pound of catch. I had understood it was SEVEN to ONE, even worse.

To the original question, yes... I believe the SOC will survive.... but not until Mother takes care of the original problem; US. There will be a recovery period, a few thousand years if not a little more, but all will return to the natural swing of things once cleansed of its' current scourge. Too many nay-sayers and too far gone down the road to turn it all around now, to do so would be to prolong the problem. Mean-time, on with the 30+ page show~!

blackwolfmt - 3-17-2015 at 04:40 PM

True article, Mean-time, on with the 30+ page show~!

Thanks guys That's all the opinions I need Time to close the thread

azucena - 3-17-2015 at 05:15 PM

Mexico does have federal environmental regulatory agency, however, it is mired down in corruption and lack of funds. I personally have seen some representatives take action on occasion, but not often enough nor consistently. It does tend to swing into some sort of action when tourist interests are effected. However in reality, the damage that has already been done will take years to rectify. For those of us that are not citizens of Mexico , it is difficult for example, to tell a fisherman that he should let some of the smaller fish live when he is trying to feed his family. The best we can do is act in a sustainable manner ourselves, ie letting the small fish grow so they can mature and reproduce. It is not out of line to explain another "non citizen " how they can do things differently and why. Don't be part of the problem. I know I will cause a firestorm here, but I have seen pictures posted here on BN of people with fish they in no way should have kept.

blackwolfmt - 3-17-2015 at 05:37 PM

index.jpeg - 8kB

desertcpl - 3-17-2015 at 05:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by azucena

Mexico does have federal environmental regulatory agency, however, it is mired down in corruption and lack of funds. I personally have seen some representatives take action on occasion, but not often enough nor consistently. It does tend to swing into some sort of action when tourist interests are effected. However in reality, the damage that has already been done will take years to rectify. For those of us that are not citizens of Mexico , it is difficult for example, to tell a fisherman that he should let some of the smaller fish live when he is trying to feed his family. The best we can do is act in a sustainable manner ourselves, ie letting the small fish grow so they can mature and reproduce. It is not out of line to explain another "non citizen " how they can do things differently and why. Don't be part of the problem. I know I will cause a firestorm here, but I have seen pictures posted here on BN of people with fish they in no way should have kept.

well said,, this is a very complex problem, so many things need to be addressed and confronted, its not going to be an easy fix
but I do believe the damage can be reversed,
I do think gringos have gotten the message about fishing,, catch and release for one, and only keep what your going to consume
not all, but its catching on very well

David K - 3-17-2015 at 06:48 PM

Not you, but when you paste anything here instead of typing it here, it cannot have any quotations or apostrophes... software glitch. No Spanish letters or accent marks either, typed or pasted.

ncampion - 3-17-2015 at 07:07 PM

True article, except for the fact that the author is no journalist or wordsmith by any means. Again, (personal pet peeve) they use the word "decimate" in the same sentence as "almost totally gone" describing species destruction.

"DECIMATE" is derived from Latin and means, "Reduced By One-Tenth". It has such a strong ring to it, but takes away credibility from the writer.
!

Just and FYI, if you actually look up the word decimate, it has more than one definition. According to Merriam Webster, the full definition is:

Transitive verb,
1 to select by lot and kill every tenth man
2 to exact a tax of 10 percent from...
3 to reduce drastically especially in number
4 to cause great destruction or harm to

So I think the author has used the word correctly, maybe that will restore his credibility. Now back to the topic.

Alm - 3-18-2015 at 12:02 AM

This is just one sector, fishes. Control of atmospheric pollution is out of "our" hands. The biggest CO/CO2 emitter in the world is not the US anymore, it's China. And you can be sure they don't care sh-t about any regulations, their emissions have tripled in the last few years, while emissions by the US are flat or even decreased. These emissions increase sea water acidity - globally. Including SOC. Plus, they affect the ozone hole, the climate change, but hey - nobody believes these tales anyway, it's all made up by crazy greenpiece yippies, right?...

Skipjack Joe - 3-18-2015 at 12:36 AM

The decimation has been witnessed here on nomads for years.

How many photos have you seen of over a hundred pounds of yellowtail laying side by side and been told not to worry - nothing is going to waste. How myopic is that?

And then there are the tuna people at Ensenada netting sardines, the food of yellowtail, throughout the peninsula in order to feed their penned tuna.

Baja is getting hammered.

AKgringo - 3-18-2015 at 07:48 AM

Regulation without effective enforcement gives an advantage to those who cheat.
Enforcement without ethical oversite adds more players, and even more advantage to the cheaters.
A cultural shift in the population of Mexico, and in their government is what it will take to stop the decline.

..and before the YT

durrelllrobert - 3-18-2015 at 08:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

The decimation has been witnessed here on nomads for years.

How many photos have you seen of over a hundred pounds of yellowtail laying side by side and been told not to worry - nothing is going to waste. How myopic is that?

And then there are the tuna people at Ensenada netting sardines, the food of yellowtail, throughout the peninsula in order to feed their penned tuna.

Baja is getting hammered.

and 50+ years ago

Barry A. - 3-18-2015 at 01:35 PM

Has anybody read any reputable articles on the impact to the SOC of the Colorado River not running into it anymore? That would seem to me to really effect (diminish?) the salinity and nutrient-level of at least the north end of the SOC?!?!?!?

Barry

bajabuddha - 3-18-2015 at 02:28 PM

I've posted several times about the effect of the loss of the Colorado. The early visitors to the delta area (pre-dams) reported incredibly verdant riparian life, literally millions of flamingos, as well as the subsequent loss of nutrient-rich soil that was deposited each spring/summer by run-offs well over 100,00 c.f.s., which was (key word = WAS) the sustaining factor of one of the richest delta eco-systems in the world. Now, reduced to a literal sea-desert, brackish alkalai flats and a dead world. This in itself probably contributed to half the loss of sea life in the northern part of the SOC. Sorry, I don't have corroborating sites and quotes to back my story up; but being intrinsically joined at the hip with the Colorado Plateau and ecosystem since 1977 you'll just have to take my word for it.

David K - 3-18-2015 at 02:52 PM

Just wondering how the wonderful sea survived when Nature cut the flow many times in the past, for 100's or 1000's of years at a time? Our big dams have only been on the river less than 100 years.

Of course there is another solution! Actually TWO solutions...

Enjoy!!

---

Cisco - 3-18-2015 at 03:15 PM

With the desertification of SoCal, the new information on warm water beneath the antarctic breaking huge quantities of ice off (sea water level increase BIG time), what now is becoming the question is: To drown by desert or drown by ocean?

The SOC although we see it from shore and consider it from our limited viewpoint is part of the world's water and should be looked at from a macro perspective also.

Here is an article which includes the satellite world water watch station in Hawaii.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31943633#

bajabuddha - 3-18-2015 at 03:41 PM

Just wondering how the wonderful sea survived when Nature cut the flow many times in the past, for 100's or 1000's of years at a time? Our big dams have only been on the river less than 100 years.

*sigh* Again, DK's inevitable 'man vs. god' debate on 'we ain't doin' nothing wrong'. Yes, the dams have only been there less than 100 years and have caused an amazing devastation in a very short time. Yes, the river has diverted and been dammed by lava flows several times in geologic history, and i'm sure there were great changes, possibly cataclysmic then, too.

But, this time, it's OUR DOING.

And, if you would've read an earlier post of mine on this thread, I did predict the SOC will be just fine and recover albeit maybe somewhat altered once Mother sees fit to remove the current blight.

By the way, eaten any shrimp lately? I don't.

Barry A. - 3-18-2015 at 03:54 PM

There IS that "39 foot high" earth berm between the SOC and the Salton Sea basin---------sea-rise would have to exceed THAT.

There was a big surge of controlled Colorado River flow back into the Delta this winter----results are still being figured out.. I was involved in the "surge" back in the late '70's early '80's and witnessed by canoe and power-boat over many days the delta flourishing during and within weeks of that surge. The growth of wildlife and vegetation was all very exciting, and amazing to see how fast the eco-system began it's rapid recovery!!! We covered the Delta from just below Morelos Diversion Dam to the upper reaches of Montague Island on several trips by canoe above Yuri-Muri and Gregor tin-boat with motor below Yuri-Muri..

Barry

SFandH - 3-18-2015 at 04:11 PM

I bet the Colorado river delta was a beautiful place in its natural state. Did the Kumeyaay live there?

wessongroup - 3-18-2015 at 04:16 PM

Nice work ... if ya can find it

Barry A. - 3-18-2015 at 04:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

Nice work ... if ya can find it

Yes, I was very lucky. One of my BLM guys in El Centro, Steve Nelson, was a Recreation Planner with an extreme side-interest in the Delta area as a hobby. He became so knowledgeable on the Delta that the Mexican Govt. uses him as one of the experts advising them on the future of the Colorado Delta. My grown son and I got to go along with him on many of his studies in the Delta, mostly because I had the boats, and he was a friend.

Seeing the surge in bird life, as well as many other kinds of life coming alive including millions of fresh-water-clams, and lots of predators big and small, in the refreshed delta was simply astounding and delightful!!! We felt like we were on an Africa Queen adventure!!! and never saw anybody else out there. It's one huge delta!!!

Google: "Steve Nelson, Colorado River Delta"

Barry

[Edited on 3-18-2015 by Barry A.]

David K - 3-18-2015 at 05:19 PM

Just wondering how the wonderful sea survived when Nature cut the flow many times in the past, for 100's or 1000's of years at a time? Our big dams have only been on the river less than 100 years.

Sigh... is it you like to dump guilt on yourself and others? Eating shrimp? Cows cause global warming, so stop eating carne asada! LOL

How is no water in the delta worse if it is caused by us (and as Barry said, we can release some every few years) vs. caused by Nature, and the delta stays dry for a thousand years?

I am promoting THINKING not that one way is right over another... but please THINK!

Barry A. - 3-18-2015 at 05:39 PM

I bet the Colorado river delta was a beautiful place in its natural state. Did the Kumeyaay live there?

By "natural state" I assume you mean in this case, pre-man??

Not sure who lived there, but there is a lot of mild evidence that American Indians were present, at least seasonally, which seems logical considering what an oasis in the desert it was, and it does appear that it was teaming with wildlife judging by our experience. The Indians of northern Baja and the lower Colorado River basin were pretty fractured, tribal, and un-structured so hard to pin down just exactly who they were.

I tend to come down on the side of-------yes, man does cause change, for sure, but I believe it is a mostly a mere blip in the scheme of earthly things long term, but I only have my own experience and observations to make that judgment.

Barry

David K - 3-18-2015 at 05:49 PM

I bet the Colorado river delta was a beautiful place in its natural state. Did the Kumeyaay live there?

It was the Cocopah, and they still do... a museum is just south of Rio Hardy (El Mayor)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocopah

Barry A. - 3-18-2015 at 06:41 PM

I bet the Colorado river delta was a beautiful place in its natural state. Did the Kumeyaay live there?

It was the Cocopah, and they still do... a museum is just south of Rio Hardy (El Mayor)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocopah

Good stuff!! Thanks, David.

Barry

Cliffy - 3-18-2015 at 07:37 PM

"I tend to come down on the side of-------yes, man does cause change, for sure, but I believe it is a mostly a mere blip in the scheme of earthly things long term, but I only have my own experience and observations to make that judgment. "

Right on point! Perfect summation.

But again, why is "natural = pre-man"? Why is man always considered "not a natural evolutionary process of the Earth"?

azucena - 3-18-2015 at 08:56 PM

Of course humans are a PART of the evolutionary process of the planet. PART is the key word here , and this does not abdicate us from being good stewards of the place we live. If we don't care for what sustains us part of the evolutionary process will ensure we do not continue to exist. Part of being a good steward is ensuring the survival of other species.

The problems facing our beloved Baja are occurring world wide, as several posters have noted. And as well ,it was pointed out how the resources are being decimated at a profound level. The over fishing for commercial purposes is a significant problem, but it is only part of the over utilization of many resources , not to mention the effects of pollution of our seas and rivers.

One can live without many things, but drinkable water is not one of them.

The Sea of Cortez has long been considered one of the most important "nurseries " of a huge number of species , including fish, birds, which may seem to some as not all that significant. However, their well being is an intrinsic connection to other species. There is an old saying : Thou cannot disturb a flower without troubling a star.

I think we need to redefine what our PART is of the evolutionary process of the planet.

blackwolfmt - 3-18-2015 at 09:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by azucena

Of course humans are a PART of the evolutionary process of the planet. PART is the key word here , and this does not abdicate us from being good stewards of the place we live. If we don't care for what sustains us part of the evolutionary process will ensure we do not continue to exist. Part of being a good steward is ensuring the survival of other species.

The problems facing our beloved Baja are occurring world wide, as several posters have noted. And as well ,it was pointed out how the resources are being decimated at a profound level. The over fishing for commercial purposes is a significant problem, but it is only part of the over utilization of many resources , not to mention the effects of pollution of our seas and rivers.

One can live without many things, but drinkable water is not one of them.

The Sea of Cortez has long been considered one of the most important "nurseries " of a huge number of species , including fish, birds, which may seem to some as not all that significant. However, their well being is an intrinsic connection to other species. There is an old saying : Thou cannot disturb a flower without troubling a star.

I think we need to redefine what our PART is of the evolutionary process of the planet.

WORD

Cliffy - 3-18-2015 at 09:09 PM

azucena I can agree with most of what you say How each side meets on mutually beneficial ground is the question. The environmental pendulum swings way too far each way with the political winds.

azucena - 3-18-2015 at 09:33 PM

Here in lies the problem : This is NOT a political issue, although it may present itself as such, and thus creates polarization. Cliffy you are correct in terms of reaching a mutually beneficial ground, but it cannot be about what "side" you are on. It reaches far beyond any political spectra. It is a human and species issue that effects all of us and our children, grandchildren every other living thing that inhabits this great blue and green planet we live on. we are all responsible and ultimately, can do our part, for instance by asking ourselves when we buy something do we really need this? Where did it come from , how was it made, and from what? If we quit buying crap from China, for example, how long will they continue to make it? Individual choices have power and can blow way farther than political winds. i realize this conversation has swayed from what is happening to the Sea of Cortez, but really it is on point to what is happening here.

Cisco - 3-18-2015 at 09:50 PM

"You shoot a mirror up into space so that it is traveling faster than the speed of light (there's the rub). Then you can look in the mirror and watch all the earth's previous history unfolding as on a movie screen....on the melting of pack ice, the green filling of ponds, the tidal swing of the Severn Bore....

...the glaciers of Greenland, some of which creak along at such a fast clip that even the dogs bark at them...the invasion of the southernmost Canadian tundra by the northernmost spruce-fir-forest, which is happening right now at the rate of a mile every ten years. When the last ice sheet receded from the North American Continent, the earth rebounded ten feet. Wouldn't that have been a sight to see?

..."an infinite storm of beauty."

The beginning is swaddled in mists, blasted by random blinding flashes. Lava pours and cool; seas boil and flood. Clouds materialize and shift; now you can see the earth''s face through only random patches of clarity. The land shudders and splits, like pack ice rent by a widening lead. Mountains burst up, jutting, and dull and soften before your eyes, clothed in forests like felt. The ice rolls up, grinding green land under water forever; The ice rolls back. Forests erupt and disappear like fairy rings. The ice rolls up-mountains are mowed into lakes, land rises wet from the sea like a surfacing whale-the ice rolls back.

A blue-green streaks the highest ridges, a yellow-green spreads from the south like a wave up a strand. A red dye seems to leak from the north down the ridges and into the valleys, seeping south; a white follows the red, then yellow-green washes north, then red spreads again, then white, over and over, making patterns of color too swift and intricate to follow....You see dust storms, locusts, floods, in dizzying flash-frames.

Zero in on a well-watered shore and see smoke from fires drifting. Stone cities rise, spread, and crumble, like patches of alpine blossoms that flourish for a day and inch above the permafrost, that iced earth no root can suck, and wither in an hour.

New cities appear, and rivers sift silt onto their rooftops; more cities emerge and spread like lichen on rock. The great human figures of history, those intricate, spirited tissues that roamed the earth's surface, are a wavering blur whose split second in the light was too brief an exposure to yield any image but the hunched, shadowless figures of ghosts.

The great herds of caribou pour into the valleys like slag, and trickle back, and pour, a brown fluid.

Slow it down more, come closer still. A dot appears, a flesh-flake. It swells like a balloon; it moves, circles, slows and vanishes. This is your life."

Thank you Annie.

azucena - 3-18-2015 at 10:34 PM

Gorgeous Thanks

redhilltown - 3-18-2015 at 11:40 PM

Just wondering how the wonderful sea survived when Nature cut the flow many times in the past, for 100's or 1000's of years at a time? Our big dams have only been on the river less than 100 years.

If you are promoting "thinking" shouldn't you be doing some?

You mock people who are appalled by the destruction of shrimping...you mock people who make any connection to the ridiculous amounts of water and wasted grain used to feed livestock shoved in feedlots and hammered with antibiotics and god knows what else because it may interfere with your right to go to the market and buy something wrapped in plastic to throw on the bbq.

"Nature" never had four billion humans. It is not the same world yet you continue---over and over---to make the comparison like it is.

[Edited on 3-19-2015 by redhilltown]

[Edited on 3-19-2015 by redhilltown]

Tod - 3-19-2015 at 07:09 AM

When I was a kid in San Diego there a lot of my friend's fathers ran or worked on long range tuna boats. Puget Sound had a lot of salmon at one time as did the Columbia River and Barkley Sound off Vancouver Island to name a few. Many of the working fishing harbors up and down the West Coast became trendy shops and restaurants (Dana Point Harbor) with a paltry number of commercial fishing boats left. The same arguments that the fisherman had to earn a paycheck and the lack of any effective regulation led to the demise of a vibrant fishing economy on the West Coast.

All to say, we NOB have been pretty good at being lousy fish stock and habitat managers and it is hard to imagine SOC turning around at any point soon.

Punta Lobo fisherman began using nets in large numbers about 3 years ago and immediately the reduction in fish was noticed. Many of them now routinely go 20 miles north for good fishing.

BajaBean - 3-19-2015 at 07:49 AM

Cisco Such prose washes over my soul like a gentile spring rain and nourishes my very being. I shall read it again and again until perchance I can recite it verbatim.
Thank you.

Martyman - 3-19-2015 at 03:51 PM

Right there with you Buddha. When I see the sun with the sunglasses I just go right on by. My time is more valuable.

SFandH - 3-19-2015 at 04:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.

I bet the Colorado river delta was a beautiful place in its natural state. Did the Kumeyaay live there?

By "natural state" I assume you mean in this case, pre-man??

Not pre-man, pre-dam.

David K - 3-19-2015 at 06:28 PM

RedHillTown, I do not MOCK anyone... I offer an alternative answer TO CONSIDER. I do not name call or make personal insults, despite being the receiving end of so many... all because I CHALLENGE the PC book answer to these statements. Show me any place I called someone a name that I have been called (by many) here... I don't play dirty.

I do not trust all government answers or most special interest group statements. They have motives for changing the truth, as in Al Gore's false charts. Science is NEVER conclusive, but instead a continuous collection of data with changing answers to continued observations.

The Internet should be a place to get information, but not what you should think about it... Use your own brain to process the data, not Al Gore's.

elgatoloco - 3-19-2015 at 07:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

This is just one sector, fishes. Control of atmospheric pollution is out of "our" hands. The biggest CO/CO2 emitter in the world is not the US anymore, it's China. And you can be sure they don't care sh-t about any regulations, their emissions have tripled in the last few years, while emissions by the US are flat or even decreased. These emissions increase sea water acidity - globally. Including SOC. Plus, they affect the ozone hole, the climate change, but hey - nobody believes these tales anyway, it's all made up by crazy greenpiece yippies, right?...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/special/2014-03/05/c_13316...

elgatoloco - 3-19-2015 at 07:59 PM

RedHillTown, I do not MOCK anyone... I offer an alternative answer TO CONSIDER. I do not name call or make personal insults, despite being the receiving end of so many... all because I CHALLENGE the PC book answer to these statements. Show me any place I called someone a name that I have been called (by many) here... I don't play dirty.

I do not trust all government answers or most special interest group statements. They have motives for changing the truth, as in Al Gore's false charts. Science is NEVER conclusive, but instead a continuous collection of data with changing answers to continued observations.

The Internet should be a place to get information, but not what you should think about it... Use your own brain to process the data, not Al Gore's.

Your obsession with Al Gore is perplexing.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/al-gore-inconvenient-truth-e...

mtgoat666 - 3-19-2015 at 08:29 PM

There you go again!

:lol:

What poppyc-ck would you spout if you didn't have your 10 year old punching bag, al gore?

:light:

I think al gore would make a great presidential candidate for 2016 :light:

bajabuddha - 3-19-2015 at 08:58 PM

RedHillTown, I do not MOCK anyone...I do not name call or make personal insults, Show me any place I called someone a name that I have been called (by many) here... I don't play dirty.

...... as in Al Gore's false charts.
... Use your own brain to process the data, not Al Gore's.

All out of context, but i'd say as hypocritical as one can get. Blanket statement, everything old Al says is false? Just because he's richer, smarter, and more informed than you are?? Not to mention, better looking......

You lectured on thinking; true, good discipline. But before one thinks, one should LISTEN, so one has something to think about. Some have both in-boxes and out-boxes, and some are sadly lacking in the former. When you speak, you wish people would listen to you, and think about what you're saying. The world works both ways, dood.

When more than just a few people are trying to tell you something, you can take it one of two ways. They're all out to get you! There's a 'Get DK Club' who just like ganging up because you are SO GAWDDANGED RIGHT ALL THE TIME. That would be thinking of your next response, but not listening to what's being said... especially when it comes from many different sources. The other option is, maybe... just maybe, you should pay attention because you just may be blowing smoke out of your 4th point of contact (parachute landing-fall series).

Many 'thinkers' are too busy thinking their own myopic standpoints, already setting up their next argument of defense rather than listening to what's being said to them. Nobody's out to get you, DK. There's no jealous Cabal here. You Da Man when it comes to missions, maps, and your 2-week-a-year trips to everywhere in Baja since you were born. Tell me, do you suffer stigmata too? Do your palms bleed? I've never seen such suffering and Martyrdom since the Tamhoor.......... nevermind.

Drive on, dood. Tell me again (just me, I'm not in any 'gang') of just how persecuted you are for stating your freedom of beliefs. It is after all somewhat entertaining. Also expound on how you "just want to make friends on Baja Nomad" but pizz SO MANY people off that you think there's a cult of persecutors here? You were born with two ears and one mouth, and should be used accordingly; maybe your next lesson-goal? Or will your ten fingers win out?

blackwolfmt - 3-19-2015 at 10:42 PM

JEEZZ Dk it seems every thread I see you postin on your always defending or justifying yourself except for the Mission stuff I aint hatin on ya but you seem to know everything about nothing maybe take a VACA to Baja and reflect

David K - 3-19-2015 at 10:57 PM

Ok, well I see you all have me beat so I surrender...

I am not justifying myself because I am not telling you what to think, only to think for yourselves. I know some of you need government to think for you, but be careful, that's how freedom is lost throughout history.

As for my bringing up Al Gore...

I just think it funny that an out-of-work politician can make millions selling carbon credits while flying in his private jet between his heated and air conditioned mansions while telling everyone else how they should live, drive, and be green!!! Why do some of you worship or are mesmerized by him instead of supporting a strong America and more freedom for people, which means less power to bureaucrats.

Finally, I am sharing my thoughts with you as friends. Just discussion... I am not trying to make anyone hate me unless politics controls you in such a way... that is too bad if it does. I am not so political as I am people oriented. I just like talking to people about various things. 99% of Nomads don't get bothered by this, but a half dozen or so do, and have to make it a negative. I really hope for a positive outcome for everyone. You just can't please all the people all the time!

redhilltown - 3-20-2015 at 12:01 AM

"Sigh... is it you like to dump guilt on yourself and others? Eating shrimp? Cows cause global warming, so stop eating carne asada! LOL"

DK...how in the hades can you say that is not mocking????????

You gotta burst yer bubble. That IS mocking.

And I get your point as to not insulting fellow Nomads but you throw bombs such as this and then retreat to "Oh, I didn't MEAN THAT"...

I disagree with you with often and I agree with you often...I 'like' you on Facebook with your Mission work. But when you mock the destruction caused by shrimping in the Sea of Cortez I for one ain't gonna stand by and let you get away with it. :fire:

David K - 3-20-2015 at 01:06 AM

How did shrimping get into this? Thank you for the Like on FB.

willardguy - 3-20-2015 at 09:14 AM

How did shrimping get into this? Thank you for the Like on FB.

How did Al Gore get into this?..........david?

chuckie - 3-20-2015 at 09:20 AM

How did DK get into this? PIC from the "Dead Sea" Yesterday

mtgoat666 - 3-20-2015 at 09:49 AM

How did shrimping get into this?

perhaps because shrimp fishing is one of the primary activities destroying the sea, eh?

mtgoat666 - 3-20-2015 at 09:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

How did Al Gore get into this?

some peoples comprehension of global warming is stuck in 2006

mtgoat666 - 3-20-2015 at 10:05 AM

As for my bringing up Al Gore...

I just think it funny that an out-of-work politician can make millions selling carbon credits while flying in his private jet between his heated and air conditioned mansions while telling everyone else how they should live, drive, and be green!!!

why do you criticize people for their success?

there is nothing wrong with making money on carbon credit trading. in fact, such an approach of pollution credit trading is a great free market solution to pollution problems

al gore is a powerful spokesman for climate change concerns, he can be an environmentalist without having to live like an ascetic monk

just like an individual can be a capitalist without being a greedy, self-centered glutton

David K - 3-20-2015 at 10:10 AM

I am jealous, that's all it is goat! :lol:

Whale-ista - 3-21-2015 at 11:37 AM

For a glimpse of how much has changed in 95 years read "A Sand County Almanac" by Aldo Leopold- (ISBN 0-345-34505-3)

The sections in chapters about Chihuahua and Sonora, called "The Green Lagoons," describe the weeks he spent in the Delta when it was wild and full of life.

Leopold canoed the delta with his brother in the fall of 1922 and lived off the land: eating game birds, fish and even managing to find wells for freshwater that flowed under the muddy or brackish surface water.

"The problem was water. The lagoons were saline; the river, where we could find it, was too muddy to drink. At each new camp we dug a well. Most wells, however, yielded only brine from the Gulf. We learned, the hard way, where to dig for water. When in doubt about a new well, we lowered the dog by his hind legs. If he drank freely, it was the signal for us to beach the canoe, kindle the fire, and pitch the tent."

He was a talented writer, a passionate ecologist/environmentalist, a skilled outdoorsman, and a trained scientist & naturalist. He loved the vast wetlands of his home state of Wisconsin, and like many snowbirds, headed south to explore Mexico's waterways.

His story of the vanished delta is well detailed re: the various plants, birds, fish, etc. he and his brother encountered. They saw many animals now long gone from that area (cranes, deer), and most desired to see a jaguar- the top of the predator pyramid in that region. (They never did see one.)

Highly recommended for a glimpse of what has been lost in the last century from that region.