BajaNomad

New land use fees popping up in Baja - $8 to access Laguna Salada

Ken Cooke - 4-7-2015 at 06:18 PM


David K is my witness. The Laguna Salada is now roped off, and to access it, you have to pay 100 Pesos to enter its wild spendor. Times are indeed changing...



rts551 - 4-7-2015 at 06:28 PM

And you say he protested? Argued and got them to drop it to $6?

Ken Cooke - 4-7-2015 at 06:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
And you say he protested? Argued and got them to drop it to $6?


David used his wonderful talent of persuasion (English/Spanish) to get the new organization in charge of limiting access to the Laguna Salada to lower their price for our entry. First, they said "1,000 Pesos. Then, the price was dropped to $6/each since not everyone carried Pesos on the trip this weekend. This is going to possibly affect Guadalupe Canyon visitors.

liknbaja127 - 4-7-2015 at 07:33 PM

Ken, they started charging us I think 4 years ago. We were doing the 500. They were hitting up the chase trucks. $5.00 each! the guy had
a great business plan! :bounce:

Desertbull - 4-7-2015 at 07:36 PM

This is not new...and is common throughout the entire peninsula.

PaulW - 4-8-2015 at 07:35 AM

Went to the CODE race last month? and the entry fee was 50 Peso per vehicle.
I guess teh price has gone up. Ejido owns the desert.
PW

rts551 - 4-8-2015 at 07:50 AM

If its their land, they have the right to charge to go across it.

50-100 pesos is cheap. might help to keep the rif/raf out.


David K - 4-8-2015 at 07:54 AM

When returning home from Arroyo Grande to Tecate yesterday (Tuesday), there was NOBODY there at the opening in the fence along the highway where the toll booth to Laguna Salada was set up on Saturday.

The toll asked was 100 pesos ($6.67 @ 15:1)... we had 11 vehicles, so her accepting $6.00 wasn't a huge discount and our caravan probably made her day.

StuckSucks - 4-8-2015 at 02:33 PM

Are we noticing a trend? When I drove into Punta Conejo in November for a race, someone at the gate (who had not been there in prior days), collected $10 from each of us as a "beach cleaning fee."

bajatrailrider - 4-11-2015 at 08:20 PM

They did try that to go on dirt road,next to beach.Camilu to Colenet.Few years back,Went past with out paying.I reported it to Broad of Tourism.2 weeks later,no more Ratas. I saw same thing David,No one there when we went home.

Maderita - 4-13-2015 at 08:24 PM

I mentioned the Laguna Salada fee issue to my rancher friend on Sunday. Wow, did I hit on a heated topic! He has a ranch in the sierra and winters his cattle in Laguna Salada and side canyons. That necessitates frequent driving from La Rumorosa on Highway 2, then south on Laguna Salada in a big truck.
The full story was a 10 minute rant, which I will try to summarize:

Woman who owns the land believes she has the right to charge money for others to cross her land, despite the fact that the road has provided access to a vast area for decades. The other road (signed) is very rough, and not conducive to stiff riding trucks or hauling cattle/horses. Local ranchers infuriated for the past year and have filed a "demanda" (legal action) with the courts.
The woman is there charging money on most weekends, but not in summer. Serious words have been exchanged between ranchers and the woman. Some have threatened to break down the barricade if she doesn't let them pass. She has relented when it escalates to that level with local ranchers.

David K - 4-14-2015 at 08:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Maderita  
I mentioned the Laguna Salada fee issue to my rancher friend on Sunday. Wow, did I hit on a heated topic! He has a ranch in the sierra and winters his cattle in Laguna Salada and side canyons. That necessitates frequent driving from La Rumorosa on Highway 2, then south on Laguna Salada in a big truck.
The full story was a 10 minute rant, which I will try to summarize:

Woman who owns the land believes she has the right to charge money for others to cross her land, despite the fact that the road has provided access to a vast area for decades. The other road (signed) is very rough, and not conducive to stiff riding trucks or hauling cattle/horses. Local ranchers infuriated for the past year and have filed a "demanda" (legal action) with the courts.
The woman is there charging money on most weekends, but not in summer. Serious words have been exchanged between ranchers and the woman. Some have threatened to break down the barricade if she doesn't let them pass. She has relented when it escalates to that level with local ranchers.


God bless the ranchers of the world! If a road was opened from the graded road junction (2 miles west) to the lake bed, perhaps would solve the issue? Open roads to all people. Now, a legit way for her to make money is set up a lemonade stand there or tacos... provide a product people will happily pay her for. The road has been there for decades, and unless she paves it or changes it, charging of passage to the playa (dry lake bed) is no different than the condo or hotel owners along ocean playas (beaches) that block or control access to the beach in Los Cabos or other resort areas.

Here is the receipt we each got after paying the lady...




[Edited on 4-14-2015 by David K]

TMW - 4-14-2015 at 08:55 AM

There are roads and trails that go from the Guadalupe road west of the Salada road to the Salada dry lake bed road with in 4-5 miles of hwy 2. You can see them on GE. Code uses some for their race course. At the time everyone was in a hurry to get going and not too interesed in finding another path.

Bajaboy - 4-14-2015 at 08:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by Maderita  
I mentioned the Laguna Salada fee issue to my rancher friend on Sunday. Wow, did I hit on a heated topic! He has a ranch in the sierra and winters his cattle in Laguna Salada and side canyons. That necessitates frequent driving from La Rumorosa on Highway 2, then south on Laguna Salada in a big truck.
The full story was a 10 minute rant, which I will try to summarize:

Woman who owns the land believes she has the right to charge money for others to cross her land, despite the fact that the road has provided access to a vast area for decades. The other road (signed) is very rough, and not conducive to stiff riding trucks or hauling cattle/horses. Local ranchers infuriated for the past year and have filed a "demanda" (legal action) with the courts.
The woman is there charging money on most weekends, but not in summer. Serious words have been exchanged between ranchers and the woman. Some have threatened to break down the barricade if she doesn't let them pass. She has relented when it escalates to that level with local ranchers.


God bless the ranchers of the world! If a road was opened from the graded road junction (2 miles west) to the lake bed, perhaps would solve the issue? Open roads to all people. Now, a legit way for her to make money is set up a lemonade stand there or tacos... provide a product people will happily pay her for. The road has been there for decades, and unless she paves it or changes it, charging of passage to the playa (dry lake bed) is no different than the condo or hotel owners along ocean playas (beaches) that block or control access to the beach in Los Cabos or other resort areas.

Here is the receipt we each got after paying the lady...




[Edited on 4-14-2015 by David K]


Sounds similar to a toll road to me? One can take the old road (free) or the better road (toll). I never took you as anti-business David?

[Edited on 4-14-2015 by Bajaboy]

chuckie - 4-14-2015 at 09:03 AM

Good for her.....

rts551 - 4-14-2015 at 09:08 AM

doesn't sound like she is restricting access. Only access across her private property. If you do not want to pay for access use the other road.

David K - 4-14-2015 at 09:14 AM

Yes, and we all paid her, too.
So, the landowners along the beach can also charge people to go across their land to the beach? I thought that was considered a crime but some here?

Bajaboy - 4-14-2015 at 09:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Yes, and we all paid her, too.
So, the landowners along the beach can also charge people to go across their land to the beach? I thought that was considered a crime but some here?


I happily paid at Papa Fernandez and Ojo de Liebre to camp recently.

David K - 4-14-2015 at 09:22 AM

She wasn't providing a camp site, or anything she made or improved, just a 1 kilometer length of old dirt road to the playa.

sancho - 4-14-2015 at 09:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  


I happily paid at Papa Fernandez and Ojo de Liebre to camp recently.













I too have paid fees to access, camp along beaches, so. of
Puerticitos a couple mi. comes to mind. There is one poster
here who goes out of his way to aviod spending $ on trips
SOB, whether rewriting Imm regs, to in his mind, validating
not paying for an fmm, his sole purpose is to get down and
back spending as little as possible














rts551 - 4-14-2015 at 10:15 AM

This road is not the Federal zone, David...but to help you understan what access mean for the Federal zone... from Bajainside.com


1. - What are everyone’s rights regarding the area called “Zona Federal Maritimo Terreste (Z.F.M.T.) (Federal Maritime Land Zone?
Share with:


According to the Constitution of Mexico the area covering 20 meters (72.17 feet) from high tide is designated as property of the nation. This means that every person has a right to access the area. This does not mean that one can trash it, ride it, sleep on it or make a campfire on it, which actions are considered felonies under the law.

2. - How can one gain access to the area (beach or rock coast)?

The answer is each owner of properties in front of the Z.F.M.T, has to provide access.

3. - What does the word access mean?

Access means that a ‘path’ must be provided. Since we are dealing with private property it also means that a legal right of way must be established. In Spanish this is called a “Servidumbre de Paseo” (Servitude of passage or Right of Way) as per Article 1057 to 1067, 1068 to 1070 and 1097 to 1108 of the Federal Civil Code and its collaterals in the Civil Code for the State of Baja California Sur.

4. - Physically, what would be the “Right of Way”?

According to the law, the Federal organization call SAMARNAT, which is the environmental watch dog” has the authority to establish said dimensions as per the requirements, location and other parameters.

David K - 4-14-2015 at 02:01 PM

Reading challenged?

Charging to cross PRIVATE PROPERTY to access the PLAYA is what I said it was the same as.

Not paying to camp on her land, or camp anywhere near her land. She was charging 100 pesos just to cross a half mile of it to get to the other side, on a long existing open road.

This was a NEW thing since myself, Ken Cooke or ANYONE in our group had ever seen before... and many of us had been on that road for many years.

Reporting on what's NEW and different from before. We paid her, so get over it. Why do you read about other's trips just to make some drama out of it. You don't ever POST YOUR OWN TRIP REPORTS and let the members pick it apart, do you guys? Sorry you didn't go, but everyone here was invited, so don't ruin it for other Nomads because you weren't having fun on Easter.

Bajaboy - 4-14-2015 at 02:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Reading challenged?

Charging to cross PRIVATE PROPERTY to access the PLAYA is what I said it was the same as.

Not paying to camp on her land, or camp anywhere near her land. She was charging 100 pesos just to cross a half mile of it to get to the other side, on a long existing open road.

This was a NEW thing since myself, Ken Cooke or ANYONE in our group had ever seen before... and many of us had been on that road for many years.

Reporting on what's NEW and different from before. We paid her, so get over it. Why do you read about other's trips just to make some drama out of it. You don't ever POST YOUR OWN TRIP REPORTS and let the members pick it apart, do you guys? Sorry you didn't go, but everyone here was invited, so don't ruin it for other Nomads because you weren't having fun on Easter.


David, relax a bit. You challenged the lady for charging to cross her land. She has every right to charge you to cross her land. I'm surprised that you are anti-capitalist.

I do appreciate the information and the trip report.

David K - 4-14-2015 at 03:11 PM

Stop it already... I just asked her what 100 pesos was for since we were not staying on her land (I didn't see any facilities normally associated with a fee, no palapas, no road changes), someone in the group asked her for a group rate, otherwise all 15 vehicles were ready to go to the graded road. She probably retired for the day after we gave her a mordida for use of an existing road she had nothing to do with.

When the owner of land the road to Abreojos or Asuncion crosses over does the same thing to you guys, let's see how quiet you are. LOL

Piracy is what some call it... it was an existing road. The land was used for the performance by Luciano Pavarotti back a dozen years ago. A monument to the event is still there.

http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/mexico/20031012-9999_mz1c1...

MMc - 4-14-2015 at 03:42 PM

DK, Maybe she is buying locks for the ranchers that are getting theirs cut off. :lol::lol::lol:
Maybe if less people knew about the place/road, less would go and there would be less of a incentive to charge. It sucks when it effects you, now doesn't it. As Baja gets more people, the pristine and unmolested places become harder to find and harder to get to. That has always been my point.

You paid to cross her land, she has every right to charge you. If you wanted to camp it might have been more.

As for those that don't post reports that is our business. Maybe what we do is Baja is for us and we don't need to let others know our lives. I am a butt-head.

David K - 4-14-2015 at 04:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MMc  
DK, Maybe she is buying locks for the ranchers that are getting theirs cut off. :lol::lol::lol:
Maybe if less people knew about the place/road, less would go and there would be less of a incentive to charge. It sucks when it effects you, now doesn't it. As Baja gets more people, the pristine and unmolested places become harder to find and harder to get to. That has always been my point.

You paid to cross her land, she has every right to charge you. If you wanted to camp it might have been more.

As for those that don't post reports that is our business. Maybe what we do is Baja is for us and we don't need to let others know our lives. I am a butt-head.


Oh, that's okay... it was Ken's tour... I was just along for the ride, but as a 'reporter' of Baja stuff, I had to ask. There was a CODE race the next weekend, and she was set up to get all the dinero she could from off road racer prerunners and support people... We just happened upon her operation on a event weekend. As I said, on Tuesday, she was not there... FREE ACCESS to the Playa Laguna Salada!

BornFisher - 4-14-2015 at 04:21 PM

Seems to me, opinions here are all based on what side of the fence you`re on!!!:bounce:

dtbushpilot - 4-14-2015 at 04:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks  
Are we noticing a trend? When I drove into Punta Conejo in November for a race, someone at the gate (who had not been there in prior days), collected $10 from each of us as a "beach cleaning fee."


I was at Punta Conejo for the Baja 1000 too, I think it was 50 pesos for us to get in. Before I left I had to walk across the area where everyone was camped to get my Baja dog who had found an especially good pile of trash and wasn't about to come when I called. The whole area was a trash pile, it was disgraceful. I can see why they would need to charge a land use fee.

We have been pre running the Baja 500 sur for the past few days. We have encountered a number of locked gates on the course with ranchers there to collect a fee from the pre runners to pass. One rancher that we visited with said he hadn't been paid by SCORE and that the pre runners were tearing up his road. I heard a second hand report of an angry rancher who's bull was hit by a car....not first hand so I can't vouch for the validity of the story.

We ride down here a lot. We see more and more gates, most unlocked but some locked. Some ranchers will give you a key or share the combination with you once they get to know you. We always try to be respectful and pass their livestock as quietly as possible. It seems to be working for us.

I've never challenged anyone wanting a fee to pass a certain point in the road, a few bucks isn't going to make or break me. A smile and some chit chat go a long way toward being welcome the next time. It's part of the "Baja experience" for me, it gives me a chance to ask questions about the area, get some tips about other possible interesting places to ride and practice my Spanish. A couple of "steekers" go a long way toward making friends too....

rts551 - 4-14-2015 at 05:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Stop it already... I just asked her what 100 pesos was for since we were not staying on her land (I didn't see any facilities normally associated with a fee, no palapas, no road changes), someone in the group asked her for a group rate, otherwise all 15 vehicles were ready to go to the graded road. She probably retired for the day after we gave her a mordida for use of an existing road she had nothing to do with.

When the owner of land the road to Abreojos or Asuncion crosses over does the same thing to you guys, let's see how quiet you are. LOL

Piracy is what some call it... it was an existing road. The land was used for the performance by Luciano Pavarotti back a dozen years ago. A monument to the event is still there.

http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/mexico/20031012-9999_mz1c1...



When the road was paved to Abreojos, the Ejido was payed for the right of way. When the land owners blocked the short cut to my house I started taking the "right of way" route. No big deal. No piracy.

Calm down David....when someone puts their face out there as much as you do, they are going to be subject to criticism. Get some thick skin or do as others do and quietly share your trips.

Could be worse, what if this was not a censored site.

Maderita - 4-14-2015 at 08:11 PM

By my count, there are at least 4 people posting on this thread who assert that the woman has a legal right to charge people to pass through her land.

It appears that these people know little or nothing about Mexican law when it comes to land use and public access/easements. It also looks like those posters are trying to be contentious, or specifically contrary with David K.

As I stated, the case has been filed in court. The outcome is up to attorneys and the judge.
The local ranchers/farmers may win their case to keep the road open and free, but it is a slow process through the judicial system.

bajatrailrider - 4-14-2015 at 08:43 PM

10/4 Maderita, I will bet money to the 4 posters,the ranchers will win. This tactic was done in San Vicente,the ranchers won every time.In court or out of court.

rts551 - 4-14-2015 at 08:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Maderita  
By my count, there are at least 4 people posting on this thread who assert that the woman has a legal right to charge people to pass through her land.

It appears that these people know little or nothing about Mexican law when it comes to land use and public access/easements. It also looks like those posters are trying to be contentious, or specifically contrary with David K.

As I stated, the case has been filed in court. The outcome is up to attorneys and the judge.
The local ranchers/farmers may win their case to keep the road open and free, but it is a slow process through the judicial system.


Just because a case is filed does not mean anything in Mexico. You have seen multiple examples right here on NOMADS. Federal Zone fight in Ensenada. Land ownership fight in Concepcion Bay. San Pedro Martir right of way issues. Some of these are still going back and forth...file and refile.
wait until a change in politics refile again.... spread some money around....

don't be so naive to think you know property law, Madrita. I think this poor lady is at a disadvantage only because the "toll" she extracts is not going to be enough to spread around..

MMc - 4-14-2015 at 08:59 PM

I did not purchase a lot in Southern Baja over something very similar. I talked to both lawyers in La Paz and Mexico City. Both said I it was a tough call as to whether I would have free easement onto a lot. I moved on not willing to get into a lawsuit or pay for access.
Ranchers might win, gringos not so much.