BajaNomad - Where is Baja gasoline refined?

Where is Baja gasoline refined?

Chupacabra - 5-7-2015 at 02:14 PM

As far as I'm aware there are no refineries in Baja. I'm wondering where the gas we purchase there is actually refined. I know the US is a major exporter of refined gasoline (though an importer of crude oil), so is the PEMEX gas in Baja actually US-refined gas or do they bring it over somehow from the Mainland?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Udo - 5-7-2015 at 02:50 PM

The PEMEX we are used to seeing and using is actually refined in the US.

chuckie - 5-7-2015 at 03:01 PM

How do you know that?

Bajahowodd - 5-7-2015 at 03:28 PM

Actually, the gas used in BC is from Texas refineries. I am not certain about the demarcation line, but the gas in BCS is coming over from the mainland.

[Edited on 5-7-2015 by Bajahowodd]

bajagrouper - 5-7-2015 at 03:37 PM

I remember seeing a Pemex truck coming of the Maz/la Paz ferry a few years ago.

BajaGeoff - 5-7-2015 at 04:14 PM

Doug (BajaNomad) could speak to this. His family was in the gas business a while back. I remember him saying that the gas in Baja does in fact originate in the US. The main difference you will find here in the states is the additives each company (ExxonMobil/Arco/Valero etc.) puts in their gas.

David K - 5-7-2015 at 04:20 PM

I think I recall that the two Baja's state border is the dividing line for gasoline shipped to La Paz (Pichilingue) storage facility from the mainland vs. gas in Baja (norte) that is delivered from either the El Sauzal (Ensenada) or Mexicali storage facility, which they get both via pipelines.

durrelllrobert - 5-7-2015 at 04:39 PM

The sixth largest refinery in the United States.

In February 1993, Shell Oil Company and PMI Norteamerica, S.A. de C.V., a subsidiary of Petroleos Mexicanos (Pemex), formed a 50-50 joint venture--Deer Park Refining Limited Partnership (DPRLP)--and in March 2001 completed a $1 billion capital upgrade. The project improved DPRLP’s global competitiveness, operating efficiency and long-term economic viability while significantly reducing air emissions.

The assets of the refinery are managed and operated by Shell Oil Company through Shell Deer Park Refining Company, a division of Shell Oil Products Company, a Shell Oil subsidiary located in Deer Park, Texas.

Today, Shell Deer Park is home to the sixth largest refinery in the United States with a crude oil capacity of 340,000 barrels a day (42 gallons per barrel).

www.shell.us/.../deerpark/about-deer-park.html

bajabuddha - 5-7-2015 at 05:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by durrelllrobert

The sixth largest refinery in the United States.

In February 1993, Shell Oil Company and PMI Norteamerica, S.A. de C.V., a subsidiary of Petroleos Mexicanos (Pemex), formed a 50-50 joint venture--Deer Park Refining Limited Partnership (DPRLP)--and in March 2001 completed a $1 billion capital upgrade. The project improved DPRLP’s global competitiveness, operating efficiency and long-term economic viability while significantly reducing air emissions.

The assets of the refinery are managed and operated by Shell Oil Company through Shell Deer Park Refining Company, a division of Shell Oil Products Company, a Shell Oil subsidiary located in Deer Park, Texas.

Today, Shell Deer Park is home to the sixth largest refinery in the United States with a crude oil capacity of 340,000 barrels a day (42 gallons per barrel).

www.shell.us/.../deerpark/about-deer-park.html

Bob, quit hinting and beating around the bush... don'tcha have any solid FACTS? (iist joshin'!!)

Used to was, gas would come into Sta. Rosalia by barge, don't think so any more with the new mining. If the seas were bad, no gas for a few days in the vicinity. I'm sure it's all different now.

Pescador - 5-7-2015 at 08:26 PM

David is right, all gas south of El Rosario comes from La Paz (Pichilingue) and from El Rosario north it comes from the Ensenada terminal.

Gas

captkw - 5-7-2015 at 09:00 PM

And its better (today) than what they sell in ca. with Ethanol crap..that kills motors and fuel systems

David K - 5-7-2015 at 09:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Pescador

David is right, all gas south of El Rosario comes from La Paz (Pichilingue) and from El Rosario north it comes from the Ensenada terminal.

Thanks for the support...
Just for the Nomads that like to mis-quote me or find my errors, what I said that all gas in the state of Baja (norte) comes from the north depots, and the gas from the Eagle Monument south comes from La Paz. Although it wouldn't surprise me if Villa Jesus Maria was an exception (somehow I don't think it is?). Bahia de los Angeles and Gonzaga Pemex gas comes from the north, and they are both south of El Rosario.

David K - 5-7-2015 at 09:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by captkw

And its better (today) than what they sell in ca. with Ethanol crap..that kills motors and fuel systems

Amen brother! :light:

Now, if only all the stations' pumps were honest like Baja Cactus in El Rosario, we could easily calculate the improved mileage we get with ethanol free fuel.

pemex

captkw - 5-7-2015 at 09:25 PM

I always top up/off at V.J.M. and avoid GN at all costs if I can,,,

chuckie - 5-8-2015 at 07:35 AM

Sounds like Mr. Gomez...."The water? It comes from God"

Bob and Susan - 5-8-2015 at 07:36 AM

IMO all gas is the same...

gas.jpg - 13kB

Ateo - 5-8-2015 at 08:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by captkw

I always top up/off at V.J.M. and avoid GN at all costs if I can,,,

Soon we can all top off at BOLA turnoff.

David K - 5-8-2015 at 08:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Quote: Originally posted by captkw

I always top up/off at V.J.M. and avoid GN at all costs if I can,,,

Soon we can all top off at BOLA turnoff.

Any photos of this new station under construction? Will it be at the old Parador station building?

BajaNomad - 5-8-2015 at 10:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Chupacabra

As far as I'm aware there are no refineries in Baja. I'm wondering where the gas we purchase there is actually refined. I know the US is a major exporter of refined gasoline (though an importer of crude oil), so is the PEMEX gas in Baja actually US-refined gas or do they bring it over somehow from the Mainland?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I've been looking for the most recent gasoline production numbers out of the Salina Cruz refinery in Oaxaca - but haven't found them yet. Mexico's intent is to increase what they're doing on the Pacific-side (with a number of things). I'm too far removed from the fuel business now to consistently follow updates with this.

Salina Cruz is the only Pemex refinery on the west coast of Mexico. My understanding was that they didn't previously produce gasoline there (or, not enough for Baja California) - and that the gasoline in Baja (and perhaps more of the Pacific-side) was coming out of Los Angeles. This is for gasoline, not diesel - as Salina Cruz has apparently produced plenty of diesel over time.

I believe the gasoline production numbers out of Salina Cruz have increased over time - but am unaware if they're enough to cover the entire west coast. It's highly unlikely thay are doing so right now however, which would imply they still obtain some amount of gasoline out of L.A.

Motor fuels for Baja California are brought in at terminals in Rosarito and La Paz. There are pipelines from Rosarito to terminals in Mexicali and Ensenada. From La Paz, Rosarito, Ensenada, and Mexicali, fuels are transported by truck to Pemex fuel stations.

Here's a previous post in regards to this topic (somewhat) - from 2011:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=49406&pag...

Mexico's been working on upgrading their fleet of ocean-going tankers in the pasts few years:
http://www.laprensasa.com/309_america-in-english/1985189_mex...

Mexico also decided to not build a new refinery and reconfigure a present one (Tula):
http://www.wsj.com/articles/pemex-opts-for-4-6-billion-refin...

The above article also notes:
"By 2017, Pemex will stop being the monopoly supplier of gasoline and diesel in Mexico under a broad energy reform signed into law this year that will allow holders of Pemex service-station franchises to buy the fuels on the open market, and allow new gasoline station brands to be opened."

[Edited on 5-8-2015 by BajaNomad]

BajaNomad - 5-8-2015 at 10:56 AM

pemex-pipelines-refineries-2014ish.png - 49kB

DawnPatrol - 5-8-2015 at 11:05 AM

Just to throw in some other information:
Last week we were in Vizcaino, on the way to Sta Rosalia.
We all have pre-2007 diesels, except we knew a guy who went to Sta Rosalia in a 2015 Chevy diesel and we were a little concerned for him in regards to the hi-sulphur diesel.
When we were filling our older diesels, we asked the attendant if he knew if there were any stations selling the low-sulphur diesel (we had a friend who speaks Spanish with us).

He said the station the farthest south in Vizcaino sold the low-sulphur, but there rest in town did not

What that means about gasoline and where it comes from in Vizcaino, he said all the gasoline comes "from the south"

[Edited on 5-8-2015 by DawnPatrol]

David K - 5-8-2015 at 11:14 AM

The diesel of the past has been LOW Sulfur (Bajo Azufre)... then the new formula became ULTRA LOW Sulfur (UBA) with the change.

BajaNomad - 5-8-2015 at 05:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Mexico also decided to not build a new refinery and reconfigure a present one (Tula):
http://www.wsj.com/articles/pemex-opts-for-4-6-billion-refin...

Apparently Pemex also delayed ultra low sulfur fuel reconfigurations/upgrades at Salina Cruz, Tula, and Salamanca refineries due to lower oil prices in the beginning of 2015:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/16/mexico-pemex-idUSL...

BajaNomad - 5-9-2015 at 12:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Mexico also decided to not build a new refinery and reconfigure a present one (Tula):
http://www.wsj.com/articles/pemex-opts-for-4-6-billion-refin...

Continued info...

And since they won't be upgrading right now, for 2015, they expect to import 262.3 thousand barrels a day of clean (UBA) diesel, Magna, and Premium - much of this from the USA:
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/finanzas-cartera/2015/impreso/...

Since the Salina Cruz refinery does not produce Magna UBA or Diesel UBA (see attached photo - stats are for all of 2013) - much of the fuel from the USA is going to the west coast, and certainly to Baja California, as well as Baja California Sur. BC gets only Diesel UBA, and that is coming from the USA right now. BCS's diesel appears to be originating from the Salina Cruz facility.

pemex-production-2013.png - 32kB

[Edited on 5-9-2015 by BajaNomad]

BajaNomad - 5-9-2015 at 12:54 AM

And per another Pemex doc:

"Algunas gasolinas pueden contener un éter de alto octanaje (éter metil terbutílico) en concentración entre 7 y 11% en volumen."

Some of the gasolines contain MTBE - anywhere from 7-11%.

Here are more specs from that doc regarding Magna and Premium...

[Edited on 5-9-2015 by BajaNomad]

Bob and Susan - 5-9-2015 at 06:15 AM

for us "simpletons"...

ok...what does this mean?

i'm interested...
are there different chemicals in Mexican gas
or usa gas or is the usa gas just "smog stuff"
or does it really matter

what do all these chemicals do for us

the air IS a lot cleaner in LA now
compared to 20 years ago

KurtG - 5-9-2015 at 12:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Quote: Originally posted by captkw

I always top up/off at V.J.M. and avoid GN at all costs if I can,,,

Soon we can all top off at BOLA turnoff.

Any photos of this new station under construction? Will it be at the old Parador station building?

The site is on the east side of the highway south of the wrecking yard by the BOLA turnoff. As of last month the site was fenced off and had a sign announcing the new station but as of that time I saw no construction activity.

BajaNomad - 5-9-2015 at 03:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan

are there different chemicals in Mexican gas
or usa gas or is the usa gas just "smog stuff"
or does it really matter

The gasoline in Mexico and the USA are very similar - and both, to my knowledge, follow the ASTM standards for motor fuels. California tends to enact some of it's own stricter specs on top of this (which may make it more different from gasoline in both Baja, and say - Texas). I'm most familiar with the ASTM D4814 as that pertains to gasoline (not diesel though) - and even then, I am no expert.

If I was to summarize the most significant differences in the gasoline being distributed in Mexico versus the USA, it would be:

- Mexico appears to exclusively use MTBE as an oxygenate, while MTBE use is banned in many USA states now.

- Fuel volatility - to some degree, having to do with climate.

Regarding MTBE - it's works great in the automotive engines, but has recently been viewed as terrible for the environment (and terrible for humans to be exposed to).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE_controversy
http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/water.htm
http://sd.water.usgs.gov/nawqa/vocns/mtbe_hh_summary.html

Regarding volatility - it's all about a good "driving experience". As an example, gasoline is comprised of multiple components (ingredients, if you will), and must take into consideration how easy it will be to vaporize the fuel to start the car. In colder climates the gasoline must vaporize more easily, but if you used that same fuel in warmer climates (or in the summer in the same location), the car might vapor lock.

So, the gasoline available in Baja will have similar volatility to the gasoline in San Diego (or perhaps a better example might be in Arizona or Texas?) through most of the year, but would be significantly different than the gasoline distributed in December in Buffalo, NY.

The volatility standards followed in the various Mexico regions is noted in the image where it notes: AA, A, B, etc. - these reflect they are following ASTM standards.

Here's a great PDF from Chevron on motor gasolines:
http://www.chevron.com/documents/pdf/MotorGasTechReview.pdf

[Edited on 5-9-2015 by BajaNomad]

Bob and Susan - 5-9-2015 at 03:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad

Here's a great PDF from Chevron on motor gasolines:
http://www.chevron.com/documents/pdf/MotorGasTechReview.pdf

opps...124 pages of small print...I saved it for a "rainy day" : )

Bajahowodd - 5-10-2015 at 04:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DawnPatrol

Just to throw in some other information:
Last week we were in Vizcaino, on the way to Sta Rosalia.
We all have pre-2007 diesels, except we knew a guy who went to Sta Rosalia in a 2015 Chevy diesel and we were a little concerned for him in regards to the hi-sulphur diesel.
When we were filling our older diesels, we asked the attendant if he knew if there were any stations selling the low-sulphur diesel (we had a friend who speaks Spanish with us).

He said the station the farthest south in Vizcaino sold the low-sulphur, but there rest in town did not

What that means about gasoline and where it comes from in Vizcaino, he said all the gasoline comes "from the south"

[Edited on 5-8-2015 by DawnPatrol]

The station you refer to has been on the mierda list for years as having gamed pumps.