BajaNomad

Generators above 4000 watts

Genecag - 7-2-2015 at 09:20 AM

With the last big hurricane knocking out power for few days in Baja South, I decided to buy a backup generator to run Refrig, water pump and lights.

Costco has a sale on a dual fuel 9KW max Gen for $650. So thinking that my wife and I would cover $600 in exemptions proceeded to cross at San Ysidro through the declare line.

We were told that you could not cross in SY with a gen above 4KW and were turned back to the US side and asked to cross through Otay.

In Otay, we paid the IVA on the full amount since anything above 4KW is not considered personal use.

And yes of course, it also depends on the officer of the day's interpretation as well :)

TMW - 7-2-2015 at 09:39 AM

Good info to know. Thanks

woody with a view - 7-2-2015 at 10:02 AM

what was the total IVA?

bowser - 7-2-2015 at 10:03 AM

Wow! One more "rule" I've never heard of before. I've crossed 3 times in the pasts 10 years with 6500 watt generators. Never a problem. Always at Tecate though. It really does depend on who's in charge that day.


Bob and Susan - 7-2-2015 at 03:37 PM

the reality of portable generators is they are ONLY as big as the plug...

and a 7000w (9000w peak) should ONLY run 3500w per the fine print.

if you add all the outlets up it totals 11,500w and you'd fry the generator motor
do you cant use all the outlets

who takes 8 extention cords with them camping anyway
then the cords are usually 15a and that's 1725w total before you melt it

sooo I my opinon a 7000w generator is (in reality) a 3500w generator

genfacts.jpg - 68kB

Bob and Susan - 7-2-2015 at 03:43 PM

oh yea..i hope you bought a transfer switch if you are going to hook the generator to the house later...

that stuff coming from the pole is pretty hot and if both are sending current in...well...FIRE!!!

mjs - 7-2-2015 at 11:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
the reality of portable generators is they are ONLY as big as the plug...

and a 7000w (9000w peak) should ONLY run 3500w per the fine print.

if you add all the outlets up it totals 11,500w and you'd fry the generator motor
do you cant use all the outlets

who takes 8 extention cords with them camping anyway
then the cords are usually 15a and that's 1725w total before you melt it

sooo I my opinon a 7000w generator is (in reality) a 3500w generator


A 7kw gen is 7kW. Single phase, 3-phase, 120, 240, 480 volt, doesn't matter. If you only tap one 120-volt leg (of the generator in question) then you are limited to 3500 watts (30 amps). If you tap both 120 volt legs (i.e. as 240-volt) then you have the full 7000 watts available. And it is fairly easy to convert some 120/240 volt gen sets to 120-volt only at twice the amperage output as the watts remain the same. The champion does not convert due to the Internal AVR but that doesn't mean the full 7kW can't be used.

And a manual or automatic transfer switch is the only proper way to connect a gen set to a grid connected home. The danger with connecting a gen without a transfer switch is that even though the grid may be down, if you energize the grid with your gen you can (will) create lethal voltages on the power lines that could kill a utility lineman.

Bob and Susan - 7-3-2015 at 05:15 AM

7000w with 240v...you are correct...

one of the 2 twenty amp plugs is 240v on the thing in the picture

but the only time you need 240v is for an ac unit or a welder

the instructions still say you should not use these generators continually over 1/2 their rated power...

they run at 3600rpm and wear out pretty fast

a home generator runs at 1800rpm and lasts a lot longer AND
uses a lot less fuel

these things are NOISY

chuckie - 7-3-2015 at 06:06 AM

I have an inverter in my Dodge Diesel, which handily runs my freezer in a pinch....used it for about 3 days on and off with no ill effects to either freezer or truck...I am old enough to survive without all the other electronic baggage.....

Genecag - 7-3-2015 at 09:48 AM

Woody - the IVA was 16% of the full amount. The Gen was $650 so about $100USD.

I plan to install a transfer switch and set it up to run 1 AC unit, Refrig, lights and Water Pump. We have a 250 or 300 gallon Propane tank to run the gen for weeks if necessary. I am not an alarmist BUT I thought it prudent to spend a few bucks for the basics. Gen set backed by large Propane tank, extra large water pillar backed by swimming pool and 90 days of instant rations :) Oh and enough beer and liquor for a month!

Some lessons learned for future house builds:

Run separate water pipes for inside vs outside: This way you can add filter system for only internal water and keep mineral rich water for plants and save on filter changes

Add a water tank on the roof and pump water to it from the pilar. This way, in case power goes out you still have water pressure without going to gen set.

If you build on multiple lots, get a meter for each lot from CFE. Your bill will be much less. With one meter, you quickly reach the upper tiers and pay huge rates...(of course conserve energy as much as possible :) )

Use vinyl windows and screen doors - they will last against corrosion

Check all drain pipes for AC to make sure they are not plugged. Nothing worse than running AC for an extended period and get a mini flood.

Bob and Susan - 7-3-2015 at 12:16 PM

couple of things...

propane tanks can only be filled to 3/4
so a 300 gallon tank is only 225 gallons

if the unit uses a gallon an hour and it can
you get 9 days...not weeks

gas and diesel is always because someone will ALWAYS sell you fuel from their truck or car for cash...take my word
you can never run out of gas in Baja if you have a few pesos in your pocket...you can run out of propane...and it could take weeks to get a re-fill

the swimming pool water should NEVER be used for house water
NEVER...plants ok...imagine washing your dishes with water someone has been "do-in stuff in"

no need to stock-pile food...
the border is only a few hours away
and food gets old...sorry mormons

water pilas on the roof are heavy...i'd go with a safer location but not in the ground...and the tanks break...take my word on this too

actually for a whole house back up generator a portable is the WRONG kind...but...I have one to back up my "big dog" generator

why waste the money on filtering house water...I only drink and cook with purified bottled water..
the house water is only as clean as the tank...and "bugs" can swim right thru most filters...you NEVER get the calcium out

never put an ac compressor on the roof...they vibrate the entire house...
they go on the ground...way quieter

sorry...just thinking again







laventana - 7-3-2015 at 11:10 PM

thanks for the heads up.

I just purchased three 2000 watt diesel generators with less than 100 hours on them at auction, presuming i will get 2 out of three running, hoping for all three. Rated life is 3000 to 6000 hours each if taken care of. So because the total is over 4000 watts I assume I will be paying duty. These are heavy 150 lbs each and noisy so will have to bring down some sound board from home depot/Lowes in USA to make a double cage system with adding redundant fans, (the internet has many suggestions for this)


If you do not have more than one electric meter and you have neighbors that are close to your meter and gone for the summer, make them a deal. I use my neighbors meters and they love not having to deal with summer payments. Now, I am an engineer and have hooked them up in parallel, not something that a novice can do, so make sure you have an electrician or engineer friend. It really is simple one you get your training. I do not use transfer switches as I turn off my external circuit breakers

Another little trick I use for water, have the pool, have underground 18 cubic meter, and a rooftop 1 meter gravity feed for power outages. The key here is I also own a travel trailer/boat 12 volt DC pump. I hook up that pump to the underground tank with a 12 volt car/(marine is better) battery and turn off the 1 horsepower 120 volt one. These 1 HP motors put the highest demand I have on my electric system. Remember the starting of a electric motor is about 3 times its rated amperage. Doing this when I run the generator I charge the 12 vdc battery whenever the generator is on. It is so nice to have water pressure. And I have the back up of the gravity feed if there is an issue.

To date for me the honda EUs have been amazing quality and quiet, got about 1500 hours from a 1000 watt EU. They are just a bit expensive. Lasted me about 10 years in this salt air. Bought a 3600 watt propane cheap one from a store in US and it lasted two usages in 4 years and could not run a full sized fridge. Tried a gas no name one and similar. Hence now going to diesel with a quality engine so I have read..

So far I have endured a hit from hurricane John (basically most if not every electric pole went down in my part of the town) and last years Odile just a few went down. Hurricane john was much more powerful here. Being a small town we are low on the priority for getting utilities up and running when there are bigger problems nearby. I generally give away a lot of water. The pool becomes a cooling off feature because the last hurricanes it has been a bit humid after them.

monoloco - 7-4-2015 at 07:57 AM

This is what a lot of off grid folks are using here in Alaska:
http://www.northern-lights.com/landbasedsolutions/nl673l4-54...
5KW, super dependable, will provide years of continuous service, and only uses a quart of fuel an hour.

larryC - 7-4-2015 at 07:58 AM

Laventana
I'm curious how you hooked those 2 generators in parallel. What type of electronics did you use to synchronize the wave? Please use layman's terms 'cause I'm not much of a geek. Is it something like what Honda sells to parallel their eu2000's? Could what you used work to parallel say a Honda 1000i to a 2000i? I'm fascinated by this magic stuff.
Larry

Bob and Susan - 7-4-2015 at 08:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
This is what a lot of off grid folks are using here in Alaska:
http://www.northern-lights.com/landbasedsolutions/nl673l4-54...
5KW, super dependable, will provide years of continuous service, and only uses a quart of fuel an hour.


yup...that's what he should have bought...
but notice there's no fuel tank

NL673L4_serviceside.gif - 181kB

monoloco - 7-4-2015 at 09:12 AM

You can use a boat fuel tank or a 55 gal drum.

laventana - 7-4-2015 at 10:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
This is what a lot of off grid folks are using here in Alaska:
http://www.northern-lights.com/landbasedsolutions/nl673l4-54...
5KW, super dependable, will provide years of continuous service, and only uses a quart of fuel an hour.


that is one beautiful diesel... great specs... How much? Not a single one on ebay, craigslist, or amazon with pricing. Which may mean no one gives them up generally.

My little 2k ones retail for over $5,000.00 and you can find them used for $1,800.00 so I am sitting down when you give me this price. Ya, got mine for a fraction of that but they could be rusted out and have to do a full head job. But mine is so simple (single cylinder) a head job is easy for a hacker like me as well parts cheap and readily available on ebay. Mine uses 0.333 gallons per hour at 3/4 load, the larger the engine generally the more efficient.

for Larry, I will not be using my two in parallel. I have two sides to my property and isolate both sides independently.

monoloco - 7-4-2015 at 11:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by laventana  
Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
This is what a lot of off grid folks are using here in Alaska:
http://www.northern-lights.com/landbasedsolutions/nl673l4-54...
5KW, super dependable, will provide years of continuous service, and only uses a quart of fuel an hour.


that is one beautiful diesel... great specs... How much? Not a single one on ebay, craigslist, or amazon with pricing. Which may mean no one gives them up generally.

A friend of mine just bought a new one for around 6k. If you consider the service life, around 20,000 hours, and the amount of fuel saved, it's pretty cheap, especially when you consider that it would probably outlast 4 or 5 5k Hondas that would cost $4000 each.

laventana - 7-5-2015 at 07:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
A friend of mine just bought a new one for around 6k. If you consider the service life, around 20,000 hours, and the amount of fuel saved, it's pretty cheap, especially when you consider that it would probably outlast 4 or 5 5k Hondas that would cost $4000 each.


that is a very reasonable price.... well worth it by far over anything I have seen new. Like the rebuildable fuel injector tips too. Also nice is the lower RPM which translates into generally a bit more quiet, but for me building a sound box is all you need anyway.

Diesels life and efficiency are generally great vs gas, but the cost of a rebuild in general of a diesel is $$, double more expensive. With the exception of the single cylinder one that I can rebuild myself if needed. That 20k hour life should be with 2 motor rebuilds. It also has one of the best owners manuals I have seen.

the honda eb2000 Long run time - up to 9.6 hrs on 1 gal of gas is amazing too... 0.1 gallons of gas per hour. Oh, I had sold my EU1000 for 50% of what I paid for it after using it 10 years and about 1500 hours. I bought it used myself, but 1500-2000 hours is a fraction of a diesel life.

Bob and Susan - 7-5-2015 at 09:37 AM

here is the problem with the blue one...

parts...its a chineese knock-off
no parts...
"bosch-like" injectors doesn't mean a bosch injector fits

in fact when it breaks...its a "throw-away"

you need a "name-brand" engine and
a "name-brand" generator if you want to keep it any time at all
think "kabota" and "Stanford"

I made the mistake of getting a fuel tank mounted UNDER the generator...that sounded good but its not...its hard to fill and messy

the air cleaner is way too small too...diesels take ALOT of air under load...if the air is restricted they can suck oil right by the rings
diesels are a lot more powerful then gas engines



as for those tiny 2000w diesels...
i'd sell those things up there and NEVER bring them down
end the pain BEFORE it starts

a 2000w generator is JUST too small for a regular house AC unit...
remember a toaster takes 1500-1800w
a small coffee pot 1000-1200
a blender 800w
a vacuum 1200w
etc etc

and I wouldn't believe ANYTHING about the hours they're supposed to run...everything breaks here in this harsh Baja location

larryC - 7-5-2015 at 09:43 AM

Laventana
I guess I misunderstood what you meant by running them in parallel. Your estimate of .333 gph of fuel consumption sounds a little high to me. But maybe they are a very large one cylinder diesel. My Kubota 6500 watt 2 cyl diesel uses .333 (1/3)gph.

msteve1014 - 7-5-2015 at 10:31 AM

I believe he spoke of wiring two power meters parallel to take advantage of lower kwh rates while his neighbors were gone for the summer.

laventana - 7-5-2015 at 11:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
here is the problem with the blue one...

parts...its a chineese knock-off
no parts...
"bosch-like" injectors doesn't mean a bosch injector fits

in fact when it breaks...its a "throw-away"

you need a "name-brand" engine and
a "name-brand" generator if you want to keep it any time at all
think "kabota" and "Stanford"

I made the mistake of getting a fuel tank mounted UNDER the generator...that sounded good but its not...its hard to fill and messy

the air cleaner is way too small too...diesels take ALOT of air under load...if the air is restricted they can suck oil right by the rings
diesels are a lot more powerful then gas engines



as for those tiny 2000w diesels...
i'd sell those things up there and NEVER bring them down
end the pain BEFORE it starts

a 2000w generator is JUST too small for a regular house AC unit...
remember a toaster takes 1500-1800w
a small coffee pot 1000-1200
a blender 800w
a vacuum 1200w
etc etc

and I wouldn't believe ANYTHING about the hours they're supposed to run...everything breaks here in this harsh Baja location


I know what you are saying, but diesels are an exception... I have a diesel pick up truck 1986 vintage... Its been here in baja for 15 years, yes it is a rust bucket... but engine is just fine. As I mentioned used a honda EU1000 for 10 years down here and sold it to buy a larger one. That is correct the chinese knock offs did not even last 2 full uses of 2 years...

These 2k are not chinese made knock offs they list for USD$5k. I did not realize the other one was, had been looking for the engine manufacturer and found it strange I could not. If it is a chinese diesel I do add this , I would not buy it till I had a bunch of ratings by people who owned them.

As far as the size, I ran on a 1000 watt unit for about 6 hurricanes with the longest I had to deal with is about 3 weeks of no power/water. All our purposes are different. I again have a honda eu1000and made it through 2 weeks of Odile no power water. I built my place with the thought of hurricanes, so I use the smallest mini-splits there are for the bedroom where I sleep at night. I wanted comfort at night with the smallest decent generator a EU1000 I have a 7000 btu AC unit. It is driven of 4 amps. My honda EU1000 can run it and my bedroom has R9 walls, r30 roof, and double pane vinyl UVA and UVB 99% reflective glass as well as IR reflective glass. Also has a vapor barrier coating. A steel insulted door with weather stripping. So when I wake up with a tiny 5000 or 7000 BTU AC unit my lips are chapped because it is built with insulation.

Yes in the larger areas that have 1.5 ton AC units I do not use them when I lose power and use the pool to cool off.

So with my 16 years have done just fine with a 1000 watt in 12 of those years. So moving up to big time 2000 watt generators. This way do not need to move everything into one fridge anymore. and now will have two fridge ice makers running vs one... I love my fridge dispensed ice, that is my luxury during hurricanes...





[Edited on 7-5-2015 by laventana]

laventana - 7-5-2015 at 11:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
Laventana
I guess I misunderstood what you meant by running them in parallel. Your estimate of .333 gph of fuel consumption sounds a little high to me. But maybe they are a very large one cylinder diesel. My Kubota 6500 watt 2 cyl diesel uses .333 (1/3)gph.


I will check on the speck for the fuel usage but that is at 75% power. It does not list a lower power usage.


The parallel part is using my neighbors meters during the summer. Since they are from the same transformer I can wire them in parallel. If one draws more of the power I shut that one down at the circuit breaker accordingly. If they were from different transformers I would have to be very careful. IE only have one on at a time and lock the service boxes at all times. Just no room for error. But in general being neighbors most est 8 out of 10 people will be on the same transformer.

[Edited on 7-5-2015 by laventana]

monoloco - 7-5-2015 at 06:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
here is the problem with the blue one...

parts...its a chineese knock-off
no parts...
"bosch-like" injectors doesn't mean a bosch injector fits

in fact when it breaks...its a "throw-away"

you need a "name-brand" engine and
a "name-brand" generator if you want to keep it any time at all
think "kabota" and "Stanford"

I made the mistake of getting a fuel tank mounted UNDER the generator...that sounded good but its not...its hard to fill and messy

the air cleaner is way too small too...diesels take ALOT of air under load...if the air is restricted they can suck oil right by the rings
diesels are a lot more powerful then gas engines



as for those tiny 2000w diesels...
i'd sell those things up there and NEVER bring them down
end the pain BEFORE it starts

a 2000w generator is JUST too small for a regular house AC unit...
remember a toaster takes 1500-1800w
a small coffee pot 1000-1200
a blender 800w
a vacuum 1200w
etc etc

and I wouldn't believe ANYTHING about the hours they're supposed to run...everything breaks here in this harsh Baja location
Not a "Chinese knock-off". Northern Lights is a reputable supplier of land and marine based generators, with a dealer network with a service and parts department. Folks have had no problem obtaining parts for their products around here. Also, this generator doesn't need a giant air cleaner because it's only a 5kw unit and the motor isn't that big, I know of several of them is use and haven't heard of anyone having any issues.

[Edited on 7-6-2015 by monoloco]

Bob and Susan - 7-5-2015 at 07:18 PM

i searched for the factory that makes the diesel engine for northern lights...
they are hiding where its made...I cant find the factory anywhere


you are right... probably not china...
probably korea or india

all diesels need AIR when under load...I know now from experience

the guys who put that filter on were sizing it for the shipping BOX
not for service

these diesels will idle just fine with that small air filter...
suck oil when under load

monoloco know of some in use...everyone has a friend of a friend
I'll bet they just sit there and are NOT in "real" use

they are pretty and look correct...i'd still stick with a name brand engine and generator that you can buy part easily at a local "tractor store"


monoloco - 7-5-2015 at 09:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
i searched for the factory that makes the diesel engine for northern lights...
they are hiding where its made...I cant find the factory anywhere


you are right... probably not china...
probably korea or india

all diesels need AIR when under load...I know now from experience

the guys who put that filter on were sizing it for the shipping BOX
not for service

these diesels will idle just fine with that small air filter...
suck oil when under load

monoloco know of some in use...everyone has a friend of a friend
I'll bet they just sit there and are NOT in "real" use

they are pretty and look correct...i'd still stick with a name brand engine and generator that you can buy part easily at a local "tractor store"

Bob, I'm in Port Alexander Alaska, which is 100% off the grid because there is no grid. These generators run everyday, some continuously. They would not be using them if they were problematic.

Bob and Susan - 7-6-2015 at 05:19 AM

so who makes the engine and
who makes the generator

edit: you could call them...I don't have a phone or I would

[Edited on 7-6-2015 by Bob and Susan]

off the top of my head

captkw - 7-6-2015 at 07:44 AM

Westerbeke,,Onan, Northern lights are all top ginnys...I'm the guy that repairs them and does any service.. The Honda is OK for small loads and not heavy duty.....just about any thing else is for weekend warriors and are now cheap in price and cheap in design and parts...you get what you pay for !!:cool:...EDIT !! just reread bob's post about buying a genset from a "tractor" store...LOL,,LOL...Now,, That's down right funny !! and I don't care who you are,,Thats funny !! :lol:

[Edited on 7-6-2015 by captkw]

Genecag - 7-6-2015 at 07:53 AM

Onan and Nothern Lights are top notch and I think under the same company or merged.

I run an Onan 13Kw diesel on my boat and have some 600 hrs without a single hitch. Well, it stopped running recently. It would shut down after starting and read the diagnostic beeps and pointed to low or lack of water flow. The smart thing was telling me to change the impeller :) really good units.

Back to my gen set. Our place in La Paz is on the grid and only looking to use the gen set during an emergency like a big hurricane. I think the Costco Champion Gen will serve for that purpose and heck has a lifetime guarantee :)

genecag

captkw - 7-6-2015 at 08:06 AM

impellers are Soo overlooked and under serviced..also ck your exhaust elbow for restriction and rust/goo/junk...

laventana - 7-6-2015 at 08:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by captkw  
Westerbeke,,Onan, Northern lights are all top ginnys...I'm the guy that repairs them and does any service.. The Honda is OK for small loads and not heavy duty.....just about any thing else is for weekend warriors and are now cheap in price and cheap in design and parts...you get what you pay for !!:cool:...EDIT !! just reread bob's post about buying a genset from a "tractor" store...LOL,,LOL...Now,, That's down right funny !! and I don't care who you are,,Thats funny !! :lol:

[Edited on 7-6-2015 by captkw]


hey don't forget my yanmar diesel engine is also a top notch one.

also do not forget Yanmar does make tractors coincidently...

what impellers are you referring to? and will look at my exaust elbos for rust once I have my units here. thanks for the tip.

Genecag, could you enlighten me to the details of a lifetime warranty on a generator? Never heard of that on a generator, I am not a fan of Champion ones as that is one of the brands that did not last 2 years for me at the rated power. By the third year with about 300 hours had to get a new one because it could not get my fridge to run without tripping the circuit breaker on a generator rated over 3kw, yet my honda 1000 could.

one real important issue is change your oil per manufactures recommendation......

laventana

captkw - 7-6-2015 at 08:43 AM

Ha,Ha used to hangout at laventana before more than 2/3 wind surfers had ever heard of the place..the impeller and funky exhaust elbow problems are marine gensets..Yanmar make a good diesel and seem to have one major drawback..their part's are so over priced that throwing diemonds and gold bars over the gunnel seems like a cheap way to tell depth in a anchorage !!

Genecag - 7-6-2015 at 11:54 AM

:) Lifetime guarantee from Costco and not Champion. Membership has it's advantages :)


Quote: Originally posted by laventana  
Quote: Originally posted by captkw  
Westerbeke,,Onan, Northern lights are all top ginnys...I'm the guy that repairs them and does any service.. The Honda is OK for small loads and not heavy duty.....just about any thing else is for weekend warriors and are now cheap in price and cheap in design and parts...you get what you pay for !!:cool:...EDIT !! just reread bob's post about buying a genset from a "tractor" store...LOL,,LOL...Now,, That's down right funny !! and I don't care who you are,,Thats funny !! :lol:

[Edited on 7-6-2015 by captkw]


hey don't forget my yanmar diesel engine is also a top notch one.

also do not forget Yanmar does make tractors coincidently...

what impellers are you referring to? and will look at my exaust elbos for rust once I have my units here. thanks for the tip.

Genecag, could you enlighten me to the details of a lifetime warranty on a generator? Never heard of that on a generator, I am not a fan of Champion ones as that is one of the brands that did not last 2 years for me at the rated power. By the third year with about 300 hours had to get a new one because it could not get my fridge to run without tripping the circuit breaker on a generator rated over 3kw, yet my honda 1000 could.

one real important issue is change your oil per manufactures recommendation......

laventana - 7-6-2015 at 12:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by captkw  
Ha,Ha used to hangout at laventana before more than 2/3 wind surfers had ever heard of the place..the impeller and funky exhaust elbow problems are marine gensets..Yanmar make a good diesel and seem to have one major drawback..their part's are so over priced that throwing diemonds and gold bars over the gunnel seems like a cheap way to tell depth in a anchorage !!


any possibility you have some old pictures of this area?

Note I do not buy Chinese knock off generators anymore. I am working with a single cylinder easy to work on engine. So as far as the Japanese mil spec Yanmars go, because there is a exact appearance chinese knock off of the L48 engine. Getting aftermarket parts for them that are made in china are very cheap now. For me I do not care who makes the valves, and gasket sets. These parts are so easy to make correctly that I trust these parts.. It is the housing and cylinder walls and rings, these parts that are so critical and tough metallurgically in manufacturing, well I would not buy knock off parts. These just are not proper copies. With a single cylinder engine that I can do the work, well what a few hours to take apart and a few getting machined if need be, and a day reassembling. Ya that would cost me bank at a shop with $140.00/hr labor. But for me it is just time to teach a 7 y.o. kid how to take an engine apart and put it back together again. Start with a simple one first.

Also I will have to change my generators from a 24 volt starter to 12 volt. So will use a chinese starter/solenoid for that too, unless I can find someone who can rewire the coils to 12volt for a reasonable price. Changing the glow plugs is relatively straight forward if I need to do it, a bit warm after a hurricane...

Have also learned that after using the gen pull the hand cord to it sets in tension and that is where the valves close and thus prevent rusting out inside the cylinder in a humid and or salt air environment.. Internet forums are great where we people like you who have been there done that to guide us apprentices to these important details like this. Found a forum specifically for these military diesel generators for when I get in over my head, or in this case into the head..

woody with a view - 7-6-2015 at 01:48 PM

good info guys, thanks for not letting the topic deteriorate.....

Bob and Susan - 7-6-2015 at 02:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by captkw  
Westerbeke,,Onan, Northern lights are all top ginnys...I'm the guy that repairs them and does any service..


so here is your chance to shine "electrican"

who makes the "northern lights" diesel motor in its generator?

oh yea and don't say luggar...that's their private label

chuckie - 7-6-2015 at 04:10 PM

I have been following this with some interest, considering doing an off grid thing in Nevada....I can't figure out why, if the end product Northern Lights unit seems to get good creds, why Bob and Susan are so wrapped up in who made what....Is there an agenda here I am missing? Kinda like worrying about who made the piston rings in my Cummins/Dodge...if the whole package works ...so what?

dtbushpilot - 7-6-2015 at 04:53 PM

We have a Cummins Onan 20kv propane fuel unit with a transfer switch in our new house. It isn't intended for full time use, only when we have an outage. It has worked flawlessly since it was installed, it comes on when the power goes off and resets itself when the power has returned. It has a control panel that tells you more than you need to know about what's going on. You can program an exercise program where it will start and run for a prescribed amount of time periodically to keep itself ready to go.

I felt a bit guilty during the 3 weeks it took to get power restored after Hurricane Odile having power, ice, cold beer and AC while all my friends were in line at the generator repair guy trying to get their Harbor Freight generator running after having it sit in the garage unused for 3 years....I got over it pretty quick.

I checked the amount of capacity being used with the pool pump, 1 AC unit, 2 refrigerators, the TV and a few fans running and found it was only running at 1/3 capacity. Maybe I could have gotten by with a 10KV unit...

Bob and Susan - 7-6-2015 at 05:03 PM

you did the "right thing"

now...these others telling people that they repair these "off brand" units all the time and parts are abundant are liars

some cant even give us references he's a boat mechanic...just a picture of a business card is all

I had 3 Chinese units and all 3 failed...no parts available to fix

just because they "look right" doesn't make them work
all break

I use my Kubota 16hrs a day in the hot summer...its only time till it breaks...parts are everywhere...even the "tractor store"


ncampion - 7-6-2015 at 08:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
so who makes the engine and
who makes the generator

edit: you could call them...I don't have a phone or I would

[Edited on 7-6-2015 by Bob and Susan]


According to the website, they use Toyota and John Deere engines depending on the application.

pacside - 7-6-2015 at 09:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  

I use my Kubota 16hrs a day in the hot summer...its only time till it breaks...parts are everywhere...even the "tractor store"


Hey Bob,
How many kw is your Kubota? I'm looking to buy one either in La Paz or Cabo or I drive it down. I assume it is liquid cooled with 1800 rpm. I want it to run in the summer like you about 16 hours a day for AC and have it as a backup when it's cloudy and my solar/batteries don't have enough juice.
Thanks,
pacside

Bob and Susan - 7-7-2015 at 05:45 AM

mine is a 25k...1800rpm....uses about 3/4 a gallon an hour

but you don't need that...maybe too big

I should have gotten two 12.5k's and rotated the use
and wired two systems like my battery bank...maybe less fuel too

mine is imported from the usa...more selection there
I've had mine up and down 3 times for repair when it was new
its easy to cross with and there is a repair place near the border that repairs ALL the back up generators in the san diego area...there's a lot of back-up generators in businesses

it has a sound box...I wouldn't do that again...I would build my own
give it lots of air
I had to take the battery out of the box...too much heat

my tank in underneath (75gal) I wouldn't do that again...too hard to fill
...i'd put it on the side with wheels and a quick disconnect hose to move it around...remember you cant run a diesel out of fuel...that's bad

also don't bolt the generator to the cement...too much vibration...set it on a wooden base and bolt that down as a damper

I made lots of mistakes...I listened to the WRONG people...
when people say they are "professionals"...sometimes they arent

laventana - 7-7-2015 at 04:34 PM

added for pacside

when picking a diesel size, from what i read on a diesel forum if you go too big you need to find a way to exercise it once in a while. Some people say buy a bunch of oven elements is cheapest way to do it. Or it can harm the engine, carbonize ? can not remember what they call it. Only happens with diesels.

found it called "wet stacking"

[Edited on 7-7-2015 by laventana]

Bob and Susan - 7-7-2015 at 05:09 PM

that's like saying you shouldn't drive a diesel truck unloaded...
"put some rocks in the bed"

if it "wet-stacks" you need a tune-up or change the fuel filter

1800 rpm is like driving a truck at 60mph
so if I run my diesel 16 hours its like driving from mulege to LA

I do use a heavier diesel oil though...and change it often


Tod - 7-7-2015 at 05:40 PM

I had a Northern Lights generator on my 42' Grand Banks for 10 years before selling the boat. At the time I got mine the smaller gensets were made by Kubota and customized by Northern Lights. They have a very strong reputation the the trawler cruising world....considered to be one of the very best available.

laventana - 7-7-2015 at 08:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
that's like saying you shouldn't drive a diesel truck unloaded...
"put some rocks in the bed"

if it "wet-stacks" you need a tune-up or change the fuel filter

1800 rpm is like driving a truck at 60mph
so if I run my diesel 16 hours its like driving from mulege to LA

I do use a heavier diesel oil though...and change it often



I am not sure that is as accurate as I see the issue analogy. There is a significant difference in fuel usage at a lower load vs higher load in generators. The northern lights one gave usage by full load at 1800 rpm of 0.59gph and at half load .32 gph. Both of these are at 1800 rpm. So just at half load it is a close to a 50% differential.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_stacking

Quote:

Wet stacking is a condition in diesel engines in which not all the fuel is burned and passes on into the exhaust side of the turbocharger and on into the exhaust system. The word "stacking" comes from the term "stack" for exhaust pipe or chimney stack. The oily exhaust pipe is therefore a "wet stack".

In diesel generators, it is usually because the diesel engine is running at only a small percentage of its capacity.


http://www.primepower.com/blog/diesel-emergency-generator-sy...

Diesel Emergency Generator Systems: How to Avoid Wet Stacking

You are here: Home > Blog > Diesel Emergency Generator Systems: How to Avoid Wet Stacking
by Prime Power Services on January 12, 2012 in PrimeTimes News


Quote:


Diesel Emergency Generator Systems: How to Avoid Wet Stacking

You are here: Home > Blog > Diesel Emergency Generator Systems: How to Avoid Wet Stacking
by Prime Power Services on January 12, 2012 in PrimeTimes News

National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code 110 defines wet stacking as the accumulation of unburned fuel or carbon on a diesel generator’s exhaust side. To measure wet stacking, emergency power technicians measure the temperature of a generator’s exhaust gas. Once the extent of wet stacking is confirmed, technicians suggest ways to eliminate it. If left unaddressed, wet stacking could have the following effects on generator systems:

• Fouled injectors due to carbon accumulation
• Decrease in engine performance due to gases that escape from valves
• Parts corrosion due to carbon accumulation
• Premature engine breakdown due to gasoline diluted with oil
• Significantly shortened engine life
• Significantly increased maintenance expense due to engine damage

These conditions typically occur when emergency generator systems operate below their intended operating temperature for an extended period, although a decrease in engine performance is often seen immediately. To correct the problem and avoid premature engine breakdown, building owners should follow NFPA 110 testing guidelines for diesel generators. Prime power specializes in performing these tests.

Monthly and Annual Testing

During a monthly test, a generator should be operating under available load at (a) a minimum of thirty percent of its nameplate kilowatt rating, or (b) no less than the minimum exhaust gas temperature recommended by its manufacturer. If a generator does not pass its monthly test, it should be operated for two continuous hours under a supplied load (i.e. load bank testing) at the following levels at least once a year, beginning after a failed monthly test:

• At 25% of nameplate rating for 30 minutes
• At 50% of the nameplate rating for 30 minutes
• At 75% of the nameplate rating for 60 minutes

Auxiliary load bank testing and facility manual load bank testing are also used for annual tests, but portable load bank is the preferred method for two reasons: it eliminates the expense of buying and maintaining a load bank, and it places testing in the hands of emergency generator systems experts, who often perform this type of testing as part of a larger preventative maintenance regimen.

Conclusion

Wet stacking can happen to any diesel generator, and its effects can extend beyond generator damage. In extreme cases, it can also lead to environmental concerns, especially for facilities located in low emissions zones (LEZ). The biggest concerns are two problems it creates for building owners: the high cost and the potential disaster associated with generator failure, especially in buildings that have generator powered backup lights or require constant electricity.

At Prime Power, we understand the seriousness of wet stacking. That is why we deploy hundreds of mobile load banks each year to exercise emergency generator systems that experience wet stacking. If your generator fails its monthly test, load bank testing is the best way to prevent wet stacking or eliminate it before it leads to expensive repairs. Wet stacking could occur subtly, and exist for months or years before it is detected. To learn more about wet stacking and what you can do to prevent it, call Prime Power today.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ApPm-LFzrM

monoloco - 7-7-2015 at 08:30 PM

That's exactly right, diesel engines are most efficient and will give the longest service when run with a load on them. When sizing a diesel generator, bigger is not necessarily better, they should be sized for the load that will be put on them. On fishing boats they monitor exhaust temperatures and will size the propeller to achieve stack temp specs at cruising RPM so that the engine has the optimum load on it.

monoloco - 7-7-2015 at 08:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  


if it "wet-stacks" you need a tune-up or change the fuel filter



How do you "tune up" a diesel? Change the spark plugs? LOL

Bob and Susan - 7-8-2015 at 05:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
How do you "tune up" a diesel? Change the spark plugs? LOL


obviously you don't have a diesel generator you use all the time...

change oil and filter...ALOT...diesel fuel is a fine oil and gets into the crankcase and thins the oil

fuel/water separator filter...it'll run ALOT better...big tanks get humidity in them...keep it full

air filter...you cant believe how much FINE dust gets sucked into a diesel...it sucks ALOT of air...free up that restriction and the unit purrs

if its still bad its time to clean the injectors...that's expensive...and if you do the above you may not have to for a long time

a diesel is the best engine for long term use

fool's and fool's

captkw - 7-8-2015 at 06:49 AM

Hey BOB....... You do know that the gas pedal is on the right side,,,,Right ??

monoloco - 7-8-2015 at 07:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
How do you "tune up" a diesel? Change the spark plugs? LOL


obviously you don't have a diesel generator you use all the time...

change oil and filter...ALOT...diesel fuel is a fine oil and gets into the crankcase and thins the oil

fuel/water separator filter...it'll run ALOT better...big tanks get humidity in them...keep it full

air filter...you cant believe how much FINE dust gets sucked into a diesel...it sucks ALOT of air...free up that restriction and the unit purrs

if its still bad its time to clean the injectors...that's expensive...and if you do the above you may not have to for a long time

a diesel is the best engine for long term use
Actually, I have one that is over 20 years old that I use nearly everyday. I guess I just don't consider routine maintenance to be a "tune up".

monoloco - 7-10-2015 at 11:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
so who makes the engine and
who makes the generator

edit: you could call them...I don't have a phone or I would

[Edited on 7-6-2015 by Bob and Susan]
I looked into who makes the motor for the Northern Lights generator. It's a Shibaura, made in Japan. They have been in business for over 60 years and are used in many applications including New Holland and Ford tractors.
http://www.ihi-shibaura.com/english/aboutus/history.html

Bob and Susan - 7-10-2015 at 03:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco  
Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
so who makes the engine and
who makes the generator

edit: you could call them...I don't have a phone or I would

[Edited on 7-6-2015 by Bob and Susan]
I looked into who makes the motor for the Northern Lights generator. It's a Shibaura, made in Japan. They have been in business for over 60 years and are used in many applications including New Holland and Ford tractors.
http://www.ihi-shibaura.com/english/aboutus/history.html


i'm pretty sure this says "china knock-off" but I could be wrong...i'm not always right

chinaa.jpg - 139kB

monoloco - 7-10-2015 at 07:22 PM

What major industrial companies don't have Chinese subsidiaries? Just because they make Chevys and Fords in China, doesn't mean the ones down at your local dealerships are "Chinese knock-offs" I went and looked at the actual machine, and the plate on the motor said: IHI Shibaura Machinery Corporation and Made in Japan.

Bob and Susan - 7-10-2015 at 08:07 PM

see ...I was wrong again