BajaNomad

What was your "culture shock" in moving to Baja?

SlyOnce - 8-19-2015 at 10:39 AM

Hi, I live in Playas de TJ, in a very high end (but small) apartment on a hill overlooking the cuoata. I really love it here, last night for example I was home from work in the US early, my lovely esposa made dinner, then we went to a park and played basketball until dark. After that we walked around the park with dozens of couples and families, and stopped for a nieve (I had chocolate, lemon and mango - 3 scoops for 21 pesos). We went home, watched a movie, and were in bed early.

Since Playas is so very similar to the US, especially latina communities like Chula Vista, you can hardly tell you are in MX.

But there has still been a little "culture shock" that required getting used to. For me:

(1) Getting used to MX drivers - at first it was really nerve racking driving around. It still is, but I'm more used to it.

(2) I used to do almost all food shopping on the US side, now 2 years later I do all food shopping on the MX side. I've gotten used to MX brands and MX foods. At first I did almost all the cooking - gringo meals - and now my sweetheart does almost all the cooking - MX meals.

(3) Realization that there is no justice in MX, that the police are more evil than the thieves. While this is certainly not 100% true, it was a major shock.

(4) realization that, in MX, women expect you to open the door for them and treat them like ladies and in fact the whole place is like the US was in the 50s, kids play in the street after dinner and there are ice cream trucks and camote carts (yum). Not really a shock, this is one of the things I love most about Playas.

Lee - 8-19-2015 at 11:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce  

(4) realization that, in MX, women expect you to open the door for them and treat them like ladies and in fact the whole place is like the US was in the 50s,...


MX women are throwbacks to the 50s? I think some are caricatures of what they think MX men want. Probably gringoes too. Virgin in the kitchen, **** in the bedroom.

Spaniards are backwards too. If that makes me racist, I'll work on it.

shari - 8-19-2015 at 02:25 PM

My biggest hurdle was accepting and adapting to the custom of not telling the truth but saying what the people THINK you want to hear....so now that I know that people don't necessarily show up when they say they will...or things dont happen when they say they will....I just say...ni modo....oh well! I actually kind of like as it's no problem if i dont show up on time or at all!

I also cant wear a bikini to a public beach here in Asuncion as everyone swims in shorts and a Tshirt...so we just go down the beach a bit to where there is nobody. Women also arent supposed to hang out with the guys drinking beer at a party....we should be in the living room with all the ladies...dang thats hard!

It is also forbidden for women to ride in a car with a man who isnt your husband or family...without a chaperone. Like Lee said...it is like stepping into the past in the small villages.

I also couldnt figure out why women always went to the bathroom in two's and when an amiga asked me to go...I declined if I didnt have to pee...that is a big cultural No No...and an insult. I learned why they do that is to guard the door...as many bathrooms dont have doors at all so your friend stands in front of you to give you privacy...or the lock doesnt work...or she hands you toilet paper...or she is there to guard your back if there is a fight in the bathroom...I know now there are lots of excellent reasons why one must always agree to accompany a friend to the bathroom!

When I first moved to Guerrero Negro...NO women drove so it was funny to see the men looking at me zooming around in my pick up...but things have changed now in the last 20 years with the internet and TV...more contact with the outside world so I am not looked at like a Martian anymore!

[Edited on 8-19-2015 by shari]

Sweetwater - 8-19-2015 at 05:24 PM
Quote:

When I first moved to Guerrero Negro...NO women drove so it was funny to see the men looking at me zooming around in my pick up...but things have changed now in the last 20 years with the internet and TV...more contact with the outside world so I am not looked at like a Martian anymore!



The region I'm living in is suffering from the smoke from the Pacific NorthWest fires and we sat out last evening drinking a brew and glass of wine. The discussion arrived at a parallel level when regional, ethnic and religious conflicts were discussed. With the world opening up to people via the internet, it is easier than ever to contrast differences and particularly those differences in how children and women are treated. Yet, those same social media and internet resources seem to be a vector to recruit others to a darker purpose. How can that be when the obvious benefits of freedom and liberty are so obvious?

Good thread.....

Alm - 8-19-2015 at 10:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce  
Hi, I live in Playas de TJ

Probably the most americanized area of the most americanized state in the entire Mexico. I'm surprised people find any differences at all. Learning food labels takes time, though.
Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce  

in MX, women expect you to open the door for them and treat them like ladies

Somebody up there was looking after Mexicans - they didn't have a feminist movement, not of the North American scale anyway.

SlyOnce - 8-20-2015 at 07:20 AM

Its hard to tell the difference between Playas and Imperial Beach (CA) which is why I started this thread! Still, people drive like animals, and the police are animals. And it's hard to find US brand foods. But I'm interested in culture shock items for those who have moved farther south, since I plan to consider that.

Whale-ista - 8-20-2015 at 08:16 AM

Good question Sly. I asked a similar one a few months ago. Received some thoughtful replies from friends in Baja Sur.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=78578

Having lived in Ensenada, and having family there as well as in Mexicali, I remember the challenges of transition. It was definitely helped by family, and the ease of returning NOB within an hour. But as I consider living a longer distance from the border I wanted to hear from others also.

And re: "gender customs"- in my experience, what's more common in Baja is a mutual respect/admiration between the sexes. Men open doors etc., women manage the home, cooking etc. in ways that are not always common in the US. It's called "courtesy." Or maybe "traditional family values."

I have learned to appreciate the basic courtesies extended by men to women, and women to men, in traditional Mexican culture. It's not about feminism (which I consider simply all people being treated equally)- it's about traditional culture, respect and custom.

And as Shari notes- the "custom" of women interacting primarily with women at social events, and not driving with men who are not their family/spouse, etc. was very common in my family when I was growing up and visiting SOB, but has changed over time (at least up north). Now, more women attend college/university, and are working professionals as well as moms and homemakers. They contribute financially to their homes and families, as well as by tending the house.

Thanks for continuing the discussion. Good idea to be prepared for "culture shock" before moving to any new place.

Whale-ista - 8-20-2015 at 08:32 AM

Thanks for this ^^

This is a much better description of the "courtesy" I was trying to describe. Sometimes it's genuine, sometimes it's totally faux, but as we say in US: "good manners are the social lubricant of society" .... or something like that. They help reduce the frictions/tensions that can develop between people.

David K - 8-20-2015 at 08:33 AM

Frank, is there a different handshake in Baja vs. the mainland?

Pescador - 8-20-2015 at 09:29 AM

I live half way down the peninsula in a small fishing village which is entirely different than Ensenada and North. The best info I ever found comes from a helpful book available from Amazon and other places.

The Mexican Mind!: Understanding & Appreciating Mexican Culture! Paperback – December 10, 2011
by Boye Lafayette De Mente (Author)
16 customer reviews

bezzell - 8-20-2015 at 09:38 AM

.... how the vast majority of gringos really are the ultimate pendejos (some with bolt cutters!)

willyAirstream - 8-20-2015 at 09:41 AM

http://www.amazon.com/MEXICAN-MIND-Understanding-Appreciatin...

Kindle edition 3.79

SlyOnce - 8-20-2015 at 09:48 AM

I've noticed they call a black person, black, a white guero or gringo, an asian el chino all with no apparent prejudice. While there are strong economic class distinctions, they don't seem to be based on color.

I can't be offended at hearing myself referred to as guero, gringo, Rubio or similar.

David K - 8-20-2015 at 10:00 AM

We go to Mexico because it is DIFFERENT than here.

WHY do some go there, then want to make it the SAME as the place they left?

Why leave the U.S. if that's what they like?

Maybe these Mexicans mentioned are not PC (politically correct) because they are adults and name calling doesn't ruin their day, make them cry, or create money for lawyers and politicians?

motoged - 8-20-2015 at 10:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch  

One I am still dealing with..... the chilango handshake..... soft as a feather.
I am no hand crusher by any means but I usually give a firm handshake.....


Such a gentle handshake is not only a Mexico City thing (Chilango)....is is most common in many cultures around the world...and in my travels in Mexico, Central America, and amongst north American indigenous peoples...

I first learned this in Canada when working on a local reserve....and found it to be true in my travels....so....it's the way I shake hands when in such situations...:light:

[Edited on 8-20-2015 by motoged]

Osprey - 8-20-2015 at 11:02 AM

Nothing much changed for me. I hate black people. I hate white people. I don't know any Asians and brown people, Mexicans, have shown me respect, a kind of reverence almost for my lack of understanding, guile and of course, my age.

The only thing in the states that even comes close to that is a southern custom: If a southerner sees me spilling julip down my shirt front they would say "Well, bless his heart."

Alm - 8-20-2015 at 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
We go to Mexico because it is DIFFERENT than here.

WHY do some go there, then want to make it the SAME as the place they left?

Why leave the U.S. if that's what they like?

Maybe these Mexicans mentioned are not PC (politically correct) because they are adults and name calling doesn't ruin their day, make them cry, or create money for lawyers and politicians?

All good points (or questions).

And, - not the best title for the topic, IMO. Talking about any kind of "shock" in the region mentioned above would be an exaggeration. It's a border town, after all. Driving habits is perhaps the only thing that stands out - but then, with road conditions and signage being not the same as in the US, one would expect different driving habits as well.

Feminism is about treating both genders equal? You can't treat as totally equal two things that are different, by definition. Trying to do this would result in a whole cr-p load of PC that we are witnessing NOB. What we see in Mexico on this issue, is not a "shock", it is "normal". Though, normal can be a shock to people that have never seen it before, in other countries. I can understand this. Try traveling around more, fellow Americans.

[Edited on 8-20-2015 by Alm]

Osprey - 8-20-2015 at 01:11 PM

Yes ma'am, travel. That's the ticket. We'll get right on it. Where would you suggest we start? You have an itinerary for us perhaps?

sancho - 8-20-2015 at 02:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm  




Try traveling around more, fellow Americans.

[Edited on 8-20-2015 by Alm]






This thread has a nice tone to it.
Travel, at least extensively, is a luxury in $ and time, I never had kids which allowed me to do a few walk abouts in Central America, Mex, back when a
when a room in Guatamala was $1.50. Don't see where family,
middle class US Gringos have the time/ $ to pursue travel.
I did feel a little sheltered meeting Euros with 4 languages
under their belt, or one guy from Belgium who was in his
7th yr going around the world

[Edited on 8-20-2015 by sancho]

Whale-ista - 8-20-2015 at 03:39 PM

As Mark Twain said, "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness."

bajafam - 8-20-2015 at 04:50 PM

Families can travel without too much effort, if it's important enough. It's extremely important to our family, and we have been traveling with children since the youngest wast 1 1/2 (she's 9 1/2 now). There is no better teacher than traveling, IMHO. Baja is a fabulous place to travel as a family, and can be done so on the cheap...depending, of course, on your style. We have been known to camp remotely for weeks at a time, without spending a dime.

elgatoloco - 8-21-2015 at 07:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Whale-ista  
As Mark Twain said, "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness."



Like. :dudette:

Osprey - 8-21-2015 at 08:18 AM

There are all kinds of travel. It's a very broad brush verb. One can drive from L.A. to New York almost non-stop or one can spend a month at Cape Cod or one can fly to Paris, go shopping and return to the U.S.

Add to that the fact that some travelers really immerse themselves into the culture wherever they travel while others are on snapshot tours. If you travel to a foreign country and don't know a word of the lingo, you can't have the dream that the experience broadened your understanding of the people, the culture.

When I research for an essay or fiction piece I travel extensively to the setting on the internet, Google Earth and photo tours, even study some of the language and learn the history of the place in more complete fashion than one could from locals --- not in depth but the electronic history lesson will often be deeper than locals ken.

Want to try it? Do some history on the state of Alabama for example, go there and check with the man on the street for their knowledge of what you learned.

SFandH - 8-21-2015 at 08:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Osprey  


When I research for an essay or fiction piece I travel extensively to the setting on the internet, Google Earth and photo tours, even study some of the language and learn the history of the place in more complete fashion than one could from locals --- not in depth but the electronic history lesson will often be deeper than locals ken.


Boy that's the truth. The Internet is an amazing tool for armchair travelling. Especially Google Earth, the street view is incredible, and Images. Wikipedia. Translators. YouTube videos. What a wonderful collection of free software and data.

Dictionaries too. I looked up your use of the word "ken". New to me, thanks.

As far as Mexican culture shock, I find it indeed shocking at times. But I'm struggling to think of something positive to say. I travel Baja because of the unique geography and its proximity to where I live.

[Edited on 8-21-2015 by SFandH]

SlyOnce - 8-21-2015 at 10:43 AM

I discussed this with my novia last night. We are essentially married, we live in Playas for 2 years now. She's born in TJ, bilingual, college educated, works at a high school.

In practice, I have made a bubble of my American life - my music, my food, my movies, my TV shows here in Playas and pulled her into it. Now however that bubble is cracking and more and more of her things are flowing in.

We speak English at home but we have a rule of speaking only Spanish 1 hour per day.

We watch movies in English with Spanish subtitles.

So we discussed the "culture shock" from her side.

One thing I've noticed is that I'm not at all macho by their standards, I can cry at sad movies, that has really shocked her in a way. I care for her much more than she is used to. She marvels at sights like me doing the dishes.

She doesn't like sweet things, our foods are much sweeter.

She doesn't really like hamburgers nor hotdogs.

She wants tortillas with everything (I seldom eat them). And when I do I prefer flour - she eats corn tortillas.

The MX diet is short in vegetables and fruits.

I've never eaten so many eggs.

SFandH - 8-21-2015 at 11:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
As far as Mexican culture shock, I find it indeed shocking at times. But I'm struggling to think of something positive to say.


Can't tell if this is tongue in cheek, but if you're serious, I'd say you have missed out on the affective side of the Mexican people.

To contrast: I spent some time in Southern California after years living in Mexico. My conclusion about the SoCal culture:

"Bods of gods, hearts of stone." ;D



You're right, sorry I said what I did because I really don't know much about Mexico. I really have no business expressing an opinion about its culture. I just visit in the wintertime and for the most part am surrounded by Americans. I also walk across regularly to a pharmacy but that's downtown TJ - a unique place.

[Edited on 8-21-2015 by SFandH]

maryellen50 - 8-22-2015 at 10:27 AM

The worst "shock" I've had since living here is the DIRT & DUST because it is so dry with no rain. Lived in TJ/Rosarito & now Ensenada & getting out of here in October.

Alm - 8-22-2015 at 08:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by maryellen50  
The worst "shock" I've had since living here is the DIRT & DUST because it is so dry with no rain.

Yep. Entire Baja is dusty.

And garbage all around, wherever people live, and even where they don't. Doing a lot of kayaking in younger days, I've been always surprised how much garbage was there in places with no road access, - left by pangeros. They are not even trying to take it back to the town dumpster. Anything from old shoes to batteries and plastic cans after motor oil - piles and piles of it.

Alm - 8-22-2015 at 09:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch  
...it takes a conscious effort to travel with kids.....

Sure... Keep on telling it and you might eventually convince yourself that this is the reason. Like we were all born with kids already. Most people don't even get married until 5 or 7 years after the college. They don't travel because they don't feel like. Don't have much interest in other countries and cultures. This is how they were raised by their parents, and those, in turn, by theirs.

Then after kids have grown up, you are bored, with plenty of time and some money on your hands, and still don't travel - well, maybe some picture-taking cruise here and there, like from Wa to Bahamas or from NY to Alaska. Because you are past prime time for learning about other cultures, can't absorb much. Hey, you don't miss what you've never had :) ...

Osprey - 8-23-2015 at 05:52 AM

Alm, you keep showing us just how narrow your world view is. You keep reminding us, admonishing us to travel. We get it but most U.S. retirees retire and then go traveling the world they could not visit when they had jobs, responsibilities. They, we do that without any crusty old cheerleaders but thanks. Enough.

Skipjack Joe - 8-24-2015 at 05:58 PM

Mexicans shop differently than Americans. They'll get their first item and place it on the counter at the end of the queue. Then they will proceed to shop as their item moves along in the queue to the cashier. When it reaches the cashier they show up with the rest of their groceries and are ready to purchase.

There's no point in getting frustrated as you stand behind that single potato. It's just the way it is.

Culture shock

Osprey - 8-25-2015 at 10:43 AM

I think this qualifies.



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