BajaNomad

Fair pay

weebray - 9-24-2015 at 09:43 AM

Let's say you have used a housecleaner for two years that quit because she found a full time job. Let's say she worked for half a day once a week. What sort of a bonus would you give her to show your appreciation? Is that customary?

SFandH - 9-24-2015 at 09:58 AM

Bonus? How much are you paying for 1/2 a day's work?

[Edited on 9-24-2015 by SFandH]

shari - 9-24-2015 at 10:35 AM

what a nice gesture! I dont know if it is customary but it would be a noble thing to do....whatever you can afford...or maybe a nice gift instead depending on the woman...a clothes basket full of goodies?

rhintransit - 9-24-2015 at 10:36 AM

I don't know what's customary, and suspect a lot depends on local custom as well as your relationship. I have a woman who cleans for me a half a day once a week, also. I do pay her an algondo (don't know if that's the correct spelling or term for Christmas bonus) of a months wages. I think that's what I would do if she changed positions for something better for her situation. And she gets a yearly raise as long as she stays.

vandenberg - 9-24-2015 at 11:39 AM

Be careful there. We had domestic help for 6 years, also half a day a week. Always gave bonuses, vacation pay and paid very well by local standards, even paid if no show for good reason. Almost was like a friend. Than she found a full time job and quit. After a few weeks we got a request from a government agency with a complaint that we didn't pay her severance pay. Ended up having to give her about $ 600.00 to finish this "great" relationship. Live and learn.
We came away cheap. Know of other folks here in Loreto who got stuck for thousands of dollars for similar reasons. Mexican labor laws are fickle to say the least.

durrelllrobert - 9-24-2015 at 11:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by vandenberg  
Be careful there. We had domestic help for 6 years, also half a day a week. Always gave bonuses, vacation pay and paid very well by local standards, even paid if no show for good reason. Almost was like a friend. Than she found a full time job and quit. After a few weeks we got a request from a government agency with a complaint that we didn't pay her severance pay. Ended up having to give her about $ 600.00 to finish this "great" relationship. Live and learn.
We came away cheap. Know of other folks here in Loreto who got stuck for thousands of dollars for similar reasons. Mexican labor laws are fickle to say the least.


Not that it has anything to do with the current thread but I was looking for your original post summarized above so that I could post the link. Went back 6 months and didn't find it though.

Lee - 9-24-2015 at 02:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by vandenberg  
Be careful there. We had domestic help for 6 years, also half a day a week. Always gave bonuses, vacation pay and paid very well by local standards, even paid if no show for good reason. Almost was like a friend. Than she found a full time job and quit. After a few weeks we got a request from a government agency with a complaint that we didn't pay her severance pay. Ended up having to give her about $ 600.00 to finish this "great" relationship. Live and learn.
We came away cheap. Know of other folks here in Loreto who got stuck for thousands of dollars for similar reasons. Mexican labor laws are fickle to say the least.


You're not saying that because you think there was a ''great'' relationship, you were entitled not to pay her severance, are you?

If you owed her severance, and didn't pay, then she was justified in asking the agency to follow up for her.

If you forgot or didn't know, now you know.

What's the admonishment about? ''Be careful there''? How is MX law fickle?

CaboMagic - 9-24-2015 at 02:30 PM

vanderberg's words are wisdom.

if a worker decides to file a claim, (the seemingly nicest of family relationships can and do) you will find yourself in a most unpleasant and costly predicament - even the insinuation of employment makes the employer responsible for all IMSS, Aguinaldo, Vacation Pay is a start. And it will be due and payable retroactively from the first date of employment. The Mexican Labor Board will take - as in confiscate - everything and anything you own until paid in full.

Your experience may be different.

Bob and Susan - 9-24-2015 at 03:01 PM

finiquito...have her sign off

here is a calculator
http://salariominimo.com.mx/calculo-de-finiquito/

Lee - 9-24-2015 at 03:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by CaboMagic  
vanderberg's words are wisdom.

if a worker decides to file a claim, (the seemingly nicest of family relationships can and do) you will find yourself in a most unpleasant and costly predicament - even the insinuation of employment makes the employer responsible for all IMSS, Aguinaldo, Vacation Pay is a start. And it will be due and payable retroactively from the first date of employment. The Mexican Labor Board will take - as in confiscate - everything and anything you own until paid in full.

Your experience may be different.


This is the cost of doing business in Mexico, isn't it? The employer is responsible for all the above. Assuming that the employer knows how to do business in Mexico, how is it unpleasant?

DENNIS - 9-24-2015 at 03:19 PM



Contract labor. You owe her nothing. If you want to give her a gift....that's nice.

David K - 9-24-2015 at 05:27 PM

She quit!

Her decision to not work for Vandenberg anymore...

What a good trick to get a bonus for quitting!!

Lee - 9-24-2015 at 05:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
She quit!

Her decision to not work for Vandenberg anymore...

What a good trick to get a bonus for quitting!!


''…….. the employer responsible for all IMSS, Aguinaldo, Vacation Pay is a start.''

If the above is a ''start,'' what's the rest?

This is starting to sound like a scam. Is that what vandenberg and CM are alluding to?

DaliDali - 9-24-2015 at 06:11 PM

And even if a domestic "contract" worker gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar (compelling circumstantial evidence) and subsequently fired for it, they can still sting you for anticipated future earnings, which the employer denied her by the dismissal for cause.
Been there, done that.

The quest for money is great, especially FREE money and even if that lady quit voluntarily, she WILL say you fired her...even if you, as the employer, treated her and paid her well.
Been there, done that.

It seems pretty common that a "bonus" at years end equals 4 times one weeks pay.
$250p for one day a week, times 4...a cool mil.

[Edited on 9-25-2015 by DaliDali]

CaboMagic - 9-24-2015 at 07:06 PM

... a word to the wise ...

Bob even the signed finiquito was contested .. nasty stuff .. of course, it's Mexico and ymmbvd ...

Lee I'm not suggesting a scam - DaliDali expresses it well.

To be fair, not everyone who is rear-ended in the USA will go to extreme lengths to collect from the other persons insurance company, but there are those that do .. AND not everyone is an upstanding citizen of Mexico with Pope Francis-like morals ...

And on that note, Peace, Love and Fresh Fish Tacos to All .. LG

mtgoat666 - 9-24-2015 at 07:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
And even if a domestic "contract" worker gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar (compelling circumstantial evidence) and subsequently fired for it, they can still sting you for anticipated future earnings, which the employer denied her by the dismissal for cause.
Been there, done that.

The quest for money is great, especially FREE money and even if that lady quit voluntarily, she WILL say you fired her...even if you, as the employer, treated her and paid her well.
Been there, done that.

It seems pretty common that a "bonus" at years end equals 4 times one weeks pay.
$250p for one day a week, times 4...a cool mil.

[Edited on 9-25-2015 by DaliDali]


250 peso for a day's work. That's 15 dollars. That doesn't go very far. Just saying.

AKgringo - 9-24-2015 at 08:13 PM

The original post stated that the employee worked a half day, one day a week.

250 pesos was a hypothetical example given by DaliDali.

DaliDali - 9-25-2015 at 05:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
And even if a domestic "contract" worker gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar (compelling circumstantial evidence) and subsequently fired for it, they can still sting you for anticipated future earnings, which the employer denied her by the dismissal for cause.
Been there, done that.

The quest for money is great, especially FREE money and even if that lady quit voluntarily, she WILL say you fired her...even if you, as the employer, treated her and paid her well.
Been there, done that.

It seems pretty common that a "bonus" at years end equals 4 times one weeks pay.
$250p for one day a week, times 4...a cool mil.

[Edited on 9-25-2015 by DaliDali]


250 peso for a day's work. That's 15 dollars. That doesn't go very far. Just saying.


You're clueless of the whole story.
She worked for 2 hours during ONE day of the week at 250P

weebray - 9-26-2015 at 09:52 AM

The rest of the story. I talked to several Mexican employers about this case and here are the results of my research. Everyone said that the law, in practice, here in Mexico is subject to interpretation. Go figure! Anyway ALL of them said it would be best to offer something even if the person quit for another job or had to move or for whatever reason. Above all be careful to come to an accord with the worker and avoid having to deal with the government at all costs. These officious government people have little to do and like a dog on a bone they will hound you if they smell money. We talked with the employee and with guidance from several sources came up with a reasonable figure for both parties. We asked the employee specifically if we had an agreement (de acuerdo?) and got a positive response. It seemed sincere and our offer was a fair one so we expected a positive response. With the help of a business person we came up with the following receipt which was signed. I hope this may help someone else with a similar problem.

Finiquito de trabajo

Recibi del (name of employer) la cantidad (amount of settlement) en efectivo por concepto de finiquito de trabajo domestico. Que realize en un tiempo de 2 anos en el domicilio (address of workplace), quedando totalmente ad acuerdo por monto acordado en este documento.


(Name of employee) to be signed and dated

La Paz, B.C.S.

BajaBlanca - 9-26-2015 at 05:03 PM

reading all of this has my head spinning.....employees coming back for more money is awful! Here you think you crossed all t's and dotted all i's, with love and peace and fish tacos but WHAM....employee still comes back. Ughhhhh.

We personally have no employees, which means we do the work at the B&B, but I still hate reading that others were taken for a ride.

I have also had a good laugh - finiquito in Portuguese means to throw a fit! LOL!

DENNIS - 9-26-2015 at 05:34 PM


You owe her nothing. What's the difference between her and the driver of the water truck that comes to your house occasionally? Do you have to adopt him too?
It all has to do with the work schedule. That's why restaurants and other businesses will work a person for 25 days[or whatever] and rehire them a few days later.

Tioloco - 9-26-2015 at 05:50 PM

Sounds like it would be cheaper to marry the cleaning lady.

weebray - 9-27-2015 at 02:47 PM

I guess my post was construed by some of you as a complaint about the system of "mano de obra" here in Mexico. It was not. I merely posted the question in the hopes that someone else had experience in this area. I have absolutely no problem with the concept of severance pay. It is common in the US too. I was looking for a guideline as to a fair remuneration for an extremely loyal and hard working person that has always been there for us for two years. I am very happy that she has managed to get a full time job. I was not looking for stupid answers like "you owe her nothing". In the end I gave her what I considered to be a fair severance. It was way less than what I really owed her. She was happy, I am happy and I slept well last night because of it.

CaboMagic - 9-28-2015 at 03:07 PM

weebray - am truly truly glad your situation worked out well, and fairly.

Blanca - yes .. awful.. have always wished everyone well - success and happiness to each their own definitions ... as you can tell, the sting of the experience remains and therefore my post/response.

Our experience may well be due to the location.

All best wishes, L

weebray - 9-28-2015 at 04:29 PM

I don't want to belabor the point but I do believe that some kind of severance is morally if not legally appropriate. The thing that other Mexican employers stressed was that it was important to deal with the problem directly and upfront to come to an accord before any escalation. There really is no set formula here, every case is different. Part of the success lies in the initial hiring of the employee too. The best way to find help is by way of recommendation from a trusted friend that has or is using the candidate. All this being said there is no guarantee here, there are always going to be "problem children."

CaboMagic - 9-28-2015 at 06:57 PM

fwiw he was paid an enormous finiquito (severance) after being fired for stealing funds for licenses, live bait, and ice - and a truck by forging r signatures.

when we learned of the 'bad behavior' he was formally fired - all necessary documents were filed - he contested the finiquito and that is all I will say about this publicly.

I'm truly glad to know 'your' situation worked well .. I wish ours did.