BajaNomad

saving our environement

rts551 - 9-25-2015 at 05:13 PM

A lot of new mines proposed in Baja Sur. The approval of Los Cardones being the latest caught up in what might be Dirty/corrupt politics. These people should listen to the POPE.

"Pope Francis called on world leaders gathered at the United Nations in New York on Friday to take firm action on the environment, blaming a "selfish and boundless thirst for power and material" for its destruction.

"We human beings are part of the environment," Francis said. "We live in communion with it, since the environment itself entails ethical limits which human activity must acknowledge and respect. ... Any harm done to the environment, therefore, is harm done to humanity."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/25/pope-fra...


So should a few on this forum as well.

rts551 - 9-25-2015 at 05:15 PM

"A selfish and boundless thirst for power and material prosperity" that misuses natural resources and degrades the environment also leads to social ills by excluding those who are physically, economically or politically weak, he said. "Economic and social exclusion is a complete denial of human fraternity and a grave offense against human rights and the environment."

shari - 9-25-2015 at 05:23 PM

Word!

woody with a view - 9-25-2015 at 05:25 PM

what will happen when overnight, 6+ billion people are thrust into the modern world? prosperity for all means more consumption and more pollution to go around exponentially.

although its nice to think about the implications are complicated.

toneart - 9-25-2015 at 05:48 PM

Thank you, rts551.

On the environment, Francis said Christians and other religions believe man is supposed to take care of nature. "He is not authorized to abuse it, much less to destroy it."

I am not Catholic but rather, an Agnostic. Not a believer nor a disbeliever. I am a skeptic and question all doctrines. However, I watched a lot of The Pope's speeches and masses. Even on TV, his humble benevolence comes across. He is truly a positive force on this earth. :saint:

Hopefully, that will override any malevolence, and political harm. That is a tall order, but Good wins out over Evil, ultimately. Pretty positive for a skeptic, huh! :light:

DianaT - 9-25-2015 at 06:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by toneart  
Thank you, rts551.

On the environment, Francis said Christians and other religions believe man is supposed to take care of nature. "He is not authorized to abuse it, much less to destroy it."

I am not Catholic but rather, an Agnostic. Not a believer nor a disbeliever. I am a skeptic and question all doctrines. However, I watched a lot of The Pope's speeches and masses. Even on TV, his humble benevolence comes across. He is truly a positive force on this earth. :saint:

Hopefully, that will override any malevolence, and political harm. That is a tall order, but Good wins out over Evil, ultimately. Pretty positive for a skeptic, huh! :light:


x 2

Tony, you sound like a Unitarian with that positive attitude. :-) Overall, we really like this Pope.


woody with a view - 9-25-2015 at 06:24 PM

if he was REALLY a noble person wouldn't he throw those pedophile priests to the (cops) wolves?

religion=control

i figured that much out in 1st grade during my K-6th grade stint with the nuns!

hombre66 - 9-25-2015 at 06:26 PM

Altho I am strongly relating to Woodys real world asessment, I was also somewhat enlightened by by tone arts thoughtful view. Agnostic or unitarian, positivity soothes the soul.

rts551 - 9-25-2015 at 06:37 PM

Well said Tony, unfortunately it does not take long for the prosperous to come out in defense of the status quo. They miss the message somehow...or maybe don't care.

Tioloco - 9-25-2015 at 07:35 PM

Without mines, we have no copper for electricity. No gold for jewelry. No steel for building and automotive, etc.

What is the alternative? Grass huts and hunting gathering?

I am not being an a....hole. But really, what is the other choice?

rts551 - 9-25-2015 at 07:44 PM

The key words Tio, were "A selfish and boundless thirst for power and material prosperity" that misuses natural resources and degrades the environment"

misuse and degradation. The choice is ours!

Tioloco - 9-25-2015 at 07:45 PM

So we need to slow down the college diploma machines.... Apparently we need a lot of poverty to keep the consumption at bay.

mtgoat666 - 9-25-2015 at 08:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Without mines, we have no copper for electricity. No gold for jewelry. No steel for building and automotive, etc.

What is the alternative? Grass huts and hunting gathering?

I am not being an a....hole. But really, what is the other choice?


Keep on consuming, mining and polluting, and when you run out of things to buy and fuel to burn , then perhaps you will stop worshipping at the altar of online shopping, and find a sense of purpose in a non material world, even if you are hunting, gathering and living in a grass hut. Perhaps hunting, gathering and living in a grass hut beats living in a suburb with the hordes in cookie cutter houses, commuting in your big gas guzzling SUV, and working in a cubicle for the a large soulless (or faux soul) corporation. Eh?

DavidT - 9-25-2015 at 08:14 PM

Population growth has, and will continue to have a direct impact on climate change.
Yet the pope refuses to address the absolute necessity of birth control as an effective component of population control.

Both topics need to be included in discussions of the care of the planet and in the management of the global economy.

wessongroup - 9-25-2015 at 08:35 PM

What he said ^^

Tioloco - 9-25-2015 at 08:41 PM

Hey Goat, you missed the boat!
Your portable laptop that you spout your negative hateful posts from is powered by ....... Yes, you guessed it! Fossil fuels!
How much mining has it taken to accommodate your 8,495 meaningless posts on this forum? How many gallons of fuel has it taken to power the water heater to allow you to shower your old wrinkled arse?
Think about that while sitting in your ivory tower!
Better yet, don't..... Save the earth by not responding. Ever!
Good day, eh.

rts551 - 9-25-2015 at 08:45 PM

I can see that Papa Francisco's words had no impact here. On any front. Time to move on. Thanks for the good words Tony.

Tomas Tierra - 9-25-2015 at 08:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Without mines, we have no copper for electricity. No gold for jewelry. No steel for building and automotive, etc.

What is the alternative? Grass huts and hunting gathering?

I am not being an a....hole. But really, what is the other choice?


Keep on consuming, mining and polluting, and when you run out of things to buy and fuel to burn , then perhaps you will stop worshipping at the altar of online shopping, and find a sense of purpose in a non material world, even if you are hunting, gathering and living in a grass hut. Perhaps hunting, gathering and living in a grass hut beats living in a suburb with the hordes in cookie cutter houses, commuting in your big gas guzzling SUV, and working in a cubicle for the a large soulless (or faux soul) corporation. Eh?





Nice diatribe Goat... But, still looking for the alternative choice

We are nothing more than a sophisticated mold on this rock... When the mold overgrows the rock, things change...

I do think the Pope is a sincere guy... But it's gonna be a rough road..

TT

wilderone - 9-26-2015 at 08:39 AM

"A selfish and boundless thirst for power and material prosperity" that misuses natural resources and degrades the environment also leads to social ills by excluding those who are physically, economically or politically weak, he said. "Economic and social exclusion is a complete denial of human fraternity and a grave offense against human rights and the environment."

Amen.
Pope did not "refuse" to address population growth. He said what he said. Strip mining is an abuse of natural resources. Black lung disease, polluted water, cancer is the result. Slashing and burning thousands of acres of the Amazon forest to plant opium poppies is an abuse of natural resources. Disruptive fishing that destroys ecosystems that prevents marine species from re-populating. C'mon - you know the instances of abuse of natural resources, the slave labor that supports it and resulting (literal) ills. Greed is one of the cardinal sins.

woody with a view - 9-26-2015 at 08:47 AM

yes, greed is bad. perhaps he was talking about the multinational corporations who pay slave wages and no taxes?

i've been greedy a few times before. like when the surf is approaching perfection and i need to get 3 more waves!

edit: bless me Father for i have sinned, but please keep your hands to yourself!:lol:



[Edited on 9-26-2015 by woody with a view]

[Edited on 9-26-2015 by woody with a view]

rts551 - 9-26-2015 at 08:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  
"A selfish and boundless thirst for power and material prosperity" that misuses natural resources and degrades the environment also leads to social ills by excluding those who are physically, economically or politically weak, he said. "Economic and social exclusion is a complete denial of human fraternity and a grave offense against human rights and the environment."

Amen.
Pope did not "refuse" to address population growth. He said what he said. Strip mining is an abuse of natural resources. Black lung disease, polluted water, cancer is the result. Slashing and burning thousands of acres of the Amazon forest to plant opium poppies is an abuse of natural resources. Disruptive fishing that destroys ecosystems that prevents marine species from re-populating. C'mon - you know the instances of abuse of natural resources, the slave labor that supports it and resulting (literal) ills. Greed is one of the cardinal sins.


Some just refuse to listen.

Pope Francis urged world leaders to "set aside partisan and ideological interests" and work together to protect the environment and care for all of humanity on Friday in his address to the United Nations General Assembly.

But hell, we continue to get nasty here on Somads. How re world leader supposed to get it together?

woody with a view - 9-26-2015 at 09:04 AM

they don't listen to us peons. they listen to the multi-national corporations who pay slave wages and no taxes.

vote them all out EVERY election.

DavidT - 9-26-2015 at 11:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  

Pope did not "refuse" to address population growth.


Please provide a link to where he has spoken out about the absolute necessity of birth control as an effective component of population control.
It's disingenuous of him to speak about one and continue to ignore the other.

Papal Pontificating

MrBillM - 9-26-2015 at 01:07 PM

Saw a Good Editorial cartoon in the newspaper.:

The Pope speaking.................."The majority of ALL scientists agree that Anthropogenic Climate Change is occurring........"

With a scientist in the background saying "AND we also agree that there IS NO GOD'.

Like everyone, Francis selects which statements to agree with.

bajabuddha - 9-26-2015 at 03:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DavidT  
Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  

Pope did not "refuse" to address population growth.


Please provide a link to where he has spoken out about the absolute necessity of birth control as an effective component of population control.
It's disingenuous of him to speak about one and continue to ignore the other.


"If-a you don' play-a da game, you don' make-a da rules!" Personally, I think population control globally is the most important issue to address. Yes, we should all have the freedom to procreate, but somebody needs to head-slap the Buggar family and talk realism to the masses. That includes head-tappiing the opponents to Planned Parenthood funding; turn 'em loose with free condoms for anyone, puberty-upwards. How about donations of container-loads to 3rd world countries? FREE. The scariest number statistics I've seen in print is the global population explosion in the next 30 years.... aye, therein lies the rub! Er, so to speak.......

rts551 - 9-26-2015 at 04:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  
Quote: Originally posted by DavidT  
Quote: Originally posted by wilderone  

Pope did not "refuse" to address population growth.


Please provide a link to where he has spoken out about the absolute necessity of birth control as an effective component of population control.
It's disingenuous of him to speak about one and continue to ignore the other.


"If-a you don' play-a da game, you don' make-a da rules!" Personally, I think population control globally is the most important issue to address. Yes, we should all have the freedom to procreate, but somebody needs to head-slap the Buggar family and talk realism to the masses. That includes head-tappiing the opponents to Planned Parenthood funding; turn 'em loose with free condoms for anyone, puberty-upwards. How about donations of container-loads to 3rd world countries? FREE. The scariest number statistics I've seen in print is the global population explosion in the next 30 years.... aye, therein lies the rub! Er, so to speak.......


We all think our issue is the most important, don't we.

woody with a view - 9-26-2015 at 04:47 PM

hence the popularity of the forum boards.....

BajaBlanca - 9-26-2015 at 04:48 PM

Instead of focusing on birth control - similar results can be achieved differently as this report shows (one of many that have come to the same conclusion):

Educational attainment is a very critical factor in accounting for lifetime fertility differentials. Women with 1 or more years of college have sharply lower lifetime fertility than less educated women, regardless of race or Hispanic origin. Women with college degrees can be expected to complete their childbearing with 1.6-2.0 children each; 1.7 for non-Hispanic white, 1.6 for non-Hispanic black, and 2.0 for Hispanic women. For women with less education the total expected number of children are: 3.2 children for those with 0-8 years of education; 2.3 children for those with 9-11 years of education and 2.7 for high school graduates.




excerpt taken from: "Birth and Fertility Rates by Educational Attainment: United States, 1994," by T. J. Mathews and Stephanie J. Ventura is also available from NCHS by calling (301) 458-4800.

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I also think that surely there are alternatives to mining being that it causes such horrid consequences.








[Edited on 9-26-2015 by BajaBlanca]

bajabum - 9-26-2015 at 05:24 PM

The pope should stick to religion and stay out of politics and this thread went way left and right LOL

Progress is a force of nature...stop fighting it, the middle east has resisted and look at what a chit hole it is

rts551 - 9-26-2015 at 06:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
We all think our issue is the most important, don't we.


Are you implying population control is NOT critical? Or just feel like attacking the poster?

[Edited on 9-27-2015 by lencho]


Just pointing out to Woody the obvious when he stated he felt the most important issue was....... You obviously have your favorite issue as well. Once you realize this, you start to listen to what others have to say.