BajaNomad

Matomi Ranch

ehall - 3-2-2016 at 02:52 PM

Anyone know if it is possible to drive a jeep or truck up Matomi wash from hwy 5 to Matomi Ranch?

David K - 3-2-2016 at 02:58 PM

Ed, the real question might be about those last 5 miles. I last went there in 2006. The ranch was not occupied then.
http://vivabaja.com/618 starting about page 3 of that site.

[Edited on 3-2-2016 by David K]

ehall - 3-2-2016 at 03:09 PM

I wasn't planning on going to the ranch but turning North and going all the way to hwy 3. Just wasn't sure on the wash because on google earth it looks narrow and rocky in a couple spots.

David K - 3-2-2016 at 03:31 PM

The race just came down it, so it is wide open. See my web page photos as we did the same, all the way north to Hwy 3 via Diablo Dry Lake... I also did that in 2004 after exploring the canyons north of Matomi. That trip is at http://vivabaja.com/404

ehall - 3-2-2016 at 03:37 PM

Thanks David. Exactly what I needed.

David K - 3-2-2016 at 04:45 PM

Ed, one thing about going in any arroyo after a race uses it, it might be really chewed up, whoops, or a high crown is created as most of the route is sand.

PaulW - 3-2-2016 at 06:58 PM

Best way to go is Morelia road to valley Chico then enter Matomi and head up the canyon.
Up hill in Matomi is an issue. Down hill like the racers is much easier.

ehall - 3-2-2016 at 07:23 PM

Thanks david and paul. David, those pictures in that link where great. Never imagined there would be so much water back there.

bajapedro - 3-3-2016 at 01:23 PM

We were just there week before the race.
We were in rzr's but it should be passable by truck or jeep.
One pretty rocky spot at the "narrows" but if you take your time should be ok.
Now the last 6 miles to the Rancho are pretty rugged.

David K - 3-3-2016 at 06:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall  
Thanks david and paul. David, those pictures in that link where great. Never imagined there would be so much water back there.


Baja is full of surprises!
See our trip there in 2004 beginning on this page (this is all about 5 miles up from where you would exit Matomi for Valle Chico to go north; behind the ranch house): http://www.vivabaja.com/204/page8.html

Matomi Falls!










It is great in the summer! Of course it takes hours to get back in there!

bajatrailrider - 3-6-2016 at 09:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ehall  
Anyone know if it is possible to drive a jeep or truck up Matomi wash from hwy 5 to Matomi Ranch?
Ed I know you can relate to this.Last time I was in Motomi wash over 20 years ago. Riding XR650r,with 5 gal tank,two back packs.Deep sand completely out of control.Bike way too heavy.So had to ride wide open,the widest part of wash. 3/5 car lengths.I went from side to side,using every foot.The one place it gets narrow/and big rocks.Over the bars.:bounce: When are you planning this run?

Barry A. - 3-6-2016 at 10:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Best way to go is Morelia road to valley Chico then enter Matomi and head up the canyon.
Up hill in Matomi is an issue. Down hill like the racers is much easier.


Paul-------there use to be an easy way into Valle Chico about 10 miles north of the Matomi Narrows. It went west from the El Apache Mine up and over the Sierra San Felipe via Parral Canyon and into the south end of Valle Chico. It was also called "Azufre" and "Crazy Horse" by some, I think. It shows on the Baja Atlas as a trail, but it was actually a fine jeep-track with no problems. Is that jeep-track still open, do you know?

Ken Cooke - 3-6-2016 at 10:59 AM

After seeing the boulders in David's photos from several years ago, I thought this area would never be passable again. Good to hear the narrows can be navigated again.

David K - 3-6-2016 at 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Best way to go is Morelia road to valley Chico then enter Matomi and head up the canyon.
Up hill in Matomi is an issue. Down hill like the racers is much easier.


Paul-------there use to be an easy way into Valle Chico about 10 miles north of the Matomi Narrows. It went west from the El Apache Mine up and over the Sierra San Felipe via Parral Canyon and into the south end of Valle Chico. It was also called "Azufre" and "Crazy Horse" by some, I think. It shows on the Baja Atlas as a trail, but it was actually a fine jeep-track with no problems. Is that jeep-track still open, do you know?


Cañada el Parral (Azufre Wash/ Crazyhorse Canyon) was a fun route to find my first time through, in 1978.
It begins just a couple miles south of the sulfur (azufre) mine... in 1978 it was unused and only by finding parallel lines of grass could I find the route into and through the canyon (it was December and rainy, so wild grass grew in the slightly depressed remains of tire tracks where water collected.
I was ith friends and they helped by hopping out of my 4WD Subaru and moving rocks. for my (lower than most 4x4s) to get through.







PaulW - 3-6-2016 at 03:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Best way to go is Morelia road to valley Chico then enter Matomi and head up the canyon.
Up hill in Matomi is an issue. Down hill like the racers is much easier.


Paul-------there use to be an easy way into Valle Chico about 10 miles north of the Matomi Narrows. It went west from the El Apache Mine up and over the Sierra San Felipe via Parral Canyon and into the south end of Valle Chico. It was also called "Azufre" and "Crazy Horse" by some, I think. It shows on the Baja Atlas as a trail, but it was actually a fine jeep-track with no problems. Is that jeep-track still open, do you know?

==========
Hi Barry,
Correct. I recently drove up Azufre. Hot and slow easy enough for any 4x4. IGENI map H11B67 It locates Mina el Apache N of the entrance to Azufre. Forever everyone calls the mine as the Sulphur mine and there are several other digs on the map nearby. There is another place at the arroyo entrance the locals called Apache Tears. Were we are still finding the obsidian remnants of the volcanic activity. The INEGI map does call the arroyo “Parral” along with several other drainage's with the same name. Anyway we are all talking about the same canyon. Don't worry about Azufre -easy.
For aneven easier but longer way just head out to the valley via Zoo road and drive S on Morelia road past the corral and on to Matomi. 40MPH+ all the way to Matomi. Easy 2wd drive until you start up Matomi. The many maps David has posted on the Mountain bike thread have all the info you should need. For my trip we went up Azufre and back to town via Morelia road- long day.

Barry A. - 3-6-2016 at 04:42 PM

Many thanks, Paul, and that is good news. We too have spent many days on several trips covering that area, eventually over the years accessing all the places we wanted to as at times some closed-up due to washouts of the "roads" in, or due to locked gates, while others became accessible. At times we have been able to drive up to the Hot springs in Agua Caliente Canyon, the Matomi Ranch, El Parral Ranch, etc. whereas other times we have not been able to------the country is always changing due to extreme weather and ranchers/pot growers fencing it off with locked gates, etc..-----keeps things exciting and unpredictable.

Thanks again for the new info----it's been several years since we have been in the Valle Chico area.

PaulW - 3-6-2016 at 05:14 PM

Now days we have new fences due to the improving cattle industry. Issues with fence gates.
Of the ones you mentioned Augua Caliente is fenced.
This year water damage is minimal. Its very dry.

Barry A. - 3-6-2016 at 06:14 PM

For several years back 8 to 10 years ago, Upper Parral Canyon was locked up with a formidable fence and locked gate where the jeep road over to Parral from Borrendo Canyon came over the divide and dropped into Parral. Tho I had been to Rancho Parral many many years ago going up Parral from the Valle Chico road (that section now long washed out?), I have not been able to get into the Ranch for a very long time due to the locked gate. I assume that Rancho Parral is still not accessible???

PaulW - 3-6-2016 at 06:35 PM

I have not been to Rancho Parral for some years. When I went I had to drive thru two corrals by opening the fence - not locked . The road was way overgrown due to no traffic. I use the track from Berrendo. I was easy to find. Now that the rancher has so many cattle you could expect more fences. He has added 3 new pilas with watering troughs along the road from Azufre to the corral.
Tried to get from Parral to Matomi - no go due to heavy flooding and remaining big boulders.
Search for my Berrendo writeup. The rancher has put a steel cable bank to bank and made it into a cattle fence. This means you park there and walk quite a ways to the blue palms. And there was a fire whereby some bad people torched many of the palms. They were recovering nicely, so I bet they will look good now days.

David K - 3-7-2016 at 09:42 AM

Been to Parral Ranch location once, in 2004. Was with Jide exploring the Eastside canyons that week. We met Baja Lou and his group at the Entrance to Parral where the usually locked gate, was open. We camped by the corrals that the road goes right through.

Not far from the corrals, the road was washed out... and it was a 1 mile hike up to the ranch house of El Parral. Lot's of long rock walls surrounded the rancho.















Mile 3.6 was just past the corral the road drives through and where it ended at the new canyon/ washout. The 1.0 mile dashed line is the hiked portion to the ranch house (per my GPS), seen in the photo above.

StuckSucks - 3-7-2016 at 11:19 AM

Here's a photo sphere I took last weekend (using the bottom portion of David's map as reference) - east of El Carrizo, at the west end of the fence line. You can see the straight road/fence line in the photo sphere. AKA San Felipe 250 RM112+.

https://goo.gl/maps/uZBuvxWYNxB2

PaulW - 3-7-2016 at 11:21 AM

Feb 2009 no locked gates on the way to Parral. Corrals opened the unlocked gates

David K - 3-7-2016 at 11:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Feb 2009 no locked gates on the way to Parral. Corrals opened the unlocked gates

Was the road built back to the old ranch house or still ended at the edge of the arroyo just beyond the drive-thru corral?

PaulW - 3-7-2016 at 03:00 PM

Did not make it to the ranch house. The bushes were to thick
Turned around at 30.50194, -115.10815 which a little past the corral and still a couple of miles from the rancho. Did not get as far as the arroyo.
I forgot to ask where the locked gate was.

Barry A. - 3-7-2016 at 03:52 PM

Most of the time I tried to get to El Parral Rancho I encountered locked gates at the corral at the intersection of Parral Wash and the cross-over road to Berrendo Wash. We made efforts to get around it, but to hard to do because of large boulders. This locked gate was about 5 miles from the actual El Parral Rancho, as I recall.

David K - 3-7-2016 at 07:18 PM

Where Barry said, Paul.

PaulW - 3-9-2016 at 06:05 PM

So Back to Arroyo Azufre =Parral = Crazy Horse & the latest = Indian & Apache, and is shown on David’s hand drawn map “23.9 miles”. The INEGI Topos do not show roads or trails in the arroyos.
I suppose another name “Agua Caliente” is shown on David’s other map is actually shown as Arroyo Huatamote on IGENI map H11B57. I think the drainage Agua Caliente is a feeder to one of the Parral drainages and never gets to one of the coast side arroyos?
In the picture below I drew the Arroyo Azufre track and labeled the race road that goes to Matomi. I also noted where the Obsidian tear drops are found cat the place we call “Apache Tears” I noted the location of “Mina El Apache” which we all have called the “Sulpher mine” for at least 20 years. The INEGI topo definitely shows the arroyo as Parral.

Barry A. - 3-9-2016 at 06:21 PM

I have never been on the road that Paul shows the "Apache tears" notation on-------but I always wanted to----just never got around to it.

As for calling the mine the "sulfur mine for at least 20 years"------we called it the "sulfur mine" back in the early '60's as that is what it looked like with all the yellow sulfur around the diggings-----this was back when the road that goes past the sulfur mine was the ONLY road to PuerteCitos, way before the pavement and relocation of the "new" road from San Felipe much closer to the coast. Back then San Felipe was a tiny dirt town, and a lot of fun to party in with the locals. My first visit and camping in San Felipe was in the early '50's with my Aunt (an intrepid explorer of Baja).

David K - 3-9-2016 at 06:28 PM

Yes indeed Paul!
The topo map calls "Azufre Wash" Cañada el Parral. The name Azufre Wash may have come from Sal Fish after I wrote to him about possibly using the ancient road south of the sulfur mine about 35 years ago for his race.

The topo is also the first time anyone from the day, heard of the sulfur mine having the name El Apache!

Bruce Barber comes along and gives many of these places his own names in the 1990s, "Crazy Horse" for example.

I am 'guilty' of naming the barrier island beach that runs for 4 miles south from Percebu, "Shell Island" in 1978, and the rough grade near Mission Santa Maria "The Widowmaker" in 1999. Both names seemed appropriate and unique to any other place in Baja (there is already a 'Shell Beach' in Baja, but it is not an island, either).

The naming the wash out to Punta Diggs from the Sierra San Pedro Martir as Arroyo Agua Caliente was not my creation... it came from existing maps of the time (1970s)... We had no topo maps to get names from then.

PaulW - 3-9-2016 at 06:46 PM

Mina El Apache was unknown to me until I looked on the topo recently.

Yes, Agua Caliente is a major topo labeled Arroyo or canyon that comes form San Pedro Matier. Of course its the one that has the trail way up high in the Matier.
My unfinished blog that gets me up to date on the many canyons just takes more time than I have. Takes to much time to dig out the topo to show you now.

And I do not have a problem with the local names. I just document them so people can find them on the maps. The Azufre name is a puzzle when Parral is the dominant labeled drainage. Maybe the name Apache was unknown or not liked? I am OK with Azufre - good choice.

David K - 3-9-2016 at 06:59 PM

Well Azufre means Sulfur... but it was Sal or one of the Score folks who named Parral Pass "Azufre Wash" as it begins a couple miles from the "Azufre" mine.

Apache Tears (obsidian nuggets) is no connection with El Apache Sulfur Mine, however. There are apache tears along the Parral road just a mile west of the old Puertecitos road, too.

The Agua Caliente arroyo connects with others in Valle Chico and is renamed Huatamote out to Punta Diggs. When I drew my first San Felipe South maps in the 1970s, I was not aware of the name Huatamote.

PaulW - 3-11-2016 at 08:54 AM

Bruce Barber in several of his web articles said he created the name "Huatamote Trail" which per his varying descriptions could be either Chanate or Huatamote?
And as you know before Nora (1997) there was a passable track into the outlet of the valley watershed as shown on the topos and the Almanac. Since then we have had to use a side canyon which is part of the extensive Parral drainage system to get to the valley.
Anyway here it a spliced image of the area with Parral and Huatamote highlighted


David K - 3-11-2016 at 09:11 AM

Yep, and interesting that the name "Parral" (Vineyard in English) is used so close together in unconnected canyons/ arroyos.

Since the ancient road from the sulfur mine went right to the Parral canyon, north of Matomí, the ravine across the coastal mountain (Cañada el Parral) the road used simply got the name of the destination?

Up in Parral Canyon (where the abandoned ranch is) are wild grapes.