BajaNomad - Video of recent plane crash in mulege

what is left drift and how do you stop it?

Small single engine planes tend to pull to the left when you are accelerating down the runway, some such as conventional gear (tail draggers) are worse than others. Typically you use some right rudder and right aileron under acceleration to keep the plane headed in the right direction. As you build up speed you decrease the rudder and aileron input accordingly.

This may or may not have anything to do with the crash, his baggage compartment door could have come open and while distracted by that he might have just drove it into the fence. Planes make lousy cars, they are designed to be in the air.

I hope we get "the rest of the story" from the pilot.

[Edited on 3-21-2016 by dtbushpilot]

4x4abc - 3-20-2016 at 08:13 PM

what makes them pull?
torque of the engine?

BigBearRider - 3-20-2016 at 08:15 PM

That looked strange. It didn't look like there was a noticable crosswind. Normally, I wouldn't expect the left turning tendencies to be that noticeable until airborne. But maybe a Mooney(?) is different because of the powerful motor? Maybe he got caught in a rut? Or got distracted as suggested?

[Edited on 3-21-2016 by BigBearRider]

bezzell - 3-20-2016 at 08:23 PM

he was probably reading one of DK's posts

4x4abc - 3-20-2016 at 08:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bezzell

he was probably reading one of DK's posts

I was already wondering, how long it would take for this post to get ugly

BigBearRider - 3-20-2016 at 08:33 PM

Harald, it's because of the propeller in front spinning one direction.

bezzell - 3-20-2016 at 08:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bezzell

he was probably reading one of DK's posts

I was already wondering, how long it would take for this post to get ugly

lighten up francis, just an obvious funny

4x4abc - 3-20-2016 at 08:38 PM

Harald, it's because of the propeller in front spinning one direction.

is it spinning left?

BigBearRider - 3-20-2016 at 08:42 PM

Maybe he blew a tire?

rts551 - 3-20-2016 at 08:44 PM

Harald, it's because of the propeller in front spinning one direction.

is it spinning left?

http://cfi-wiki.net/w/Turning_Tendencies

4x4abc - 3-20-2016 at 08:44 PM

I asked Erika Google:
http://wiki.flightgear.org/Understanding_Propeller_Torque_an...

and the prop is turning right (from the pilot's perspective)

BigBearRider - 3-20-2016 at 08:45 PM

Apparently, it's more complicated than my simple mind remembered:

http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aerodynamics/4-left-t...

EnsenadaDr - 3-20-2016 at 08:54 PM

No texting while flying, LOL.

4x4abc - 3-20-2016 at 08:57 PM

Apparently, it's more complicated than my simple mind remembered:

http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aerodynamics/4-left-t...

good one!

Fernweh - 3-21-2016 at 07:44 AM

That is an older Mooney, not that powerful.....

The rudder is also linked to the nose gear, any small rudder input to the right, should keep the airplane straight down the runway.

The engine torque on acceleration, wants the airplane to roll, might be more an issue with a P51 or similar airplane, and not with a Mooney.

durrelllrobert - 3-21-2016 at 08:13 AM

Maybe he blew a tire?

or maybe there was still mud on the runway from the last flood?

grizzlyfsh95 - 3-21-2016 at 09:01 AM

Harald, it's because of the propeller in front spinning one direction.

is it spinning left?

Much like this forum.

LancairDriver - 3-21-2016 at 01:01 PM

The prop spinning under power causes a rotation of the airplane to roll. That is torque. Compensated for by aileron control.
It also causes the airplane to yaw, called "p factor", causing the axis of the plane to move nose left with most airplanes. This is corrected by right rudder input. It is best to set the trim tabs on the aileron and rudder to take care of this before taking off. The bigger the engine and prop the more this comes into play.

[Edited on 3-21-2016 by LancairDriver]

motoged - 3-21-2016 at 01:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by grizzlyfsh95

Harald, it's because of the propeller in front spinning one direction.

is it spinning left?

Much like this forum.

You don't get lift and airborne without "that spin" :biggrin:

4x4abc - 3-21-2016 at 02:09 PM

love this forum - you learn something new every day.

David K - 3-21-2016 at 05:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bezzell

he was probably reading one of DK's posts

I was already wondering, how long it would take for this post to get ugly

ATTENTION PILOTS:

No 'DK' post or reply reading while in takeoff or landing modes... Please wait until you are in Cruise mode or on the ground, stationary!!! :biggrin:

Lee - 3-21-2016 at 05:52 PM

Pilot is a low hour novice. It's always pilot error.

SFandH - 3-21-2016 at 06:02 PM

Pilot is a low hour novice. It's always pilot error.

Oh come on, you don't know that.

It's Baja. Maybe he dropped his beer.

Lee - 3-21-2016 at 06:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Pilot is a low hour novice. It's always pilot error.

Oh come on, you don't know that.

It's Baja. Maybe he dropped his beer.

Absolutely correct. He could have dropped anything including a roach. NTSB would find the accident could have been avoided.

Probably doesn't know what left drift is. Rank amateur.

LancairDriver - 3-21-2016 at 06:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Pilot is a low hour novice. It's always pilot error.

Oh come on, you don't know that.

It's Baja. Maybe he dropped his beer.

I heard he is 70, should have a few hours. Unless he just got his license it must be something else. S&H may have something there.

Lee - 3-21-2016 at 06:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

I heard he is 70, should have a few hours. Unless he just got his license it must be something else. S&H may have something there.

Unfortunately, age doesn't mean a thing. He could be a pilot for 40 years and still be low hours.

The video shows he drifted a long ways before hitting the fence. He had ample opportunity to self correct. Doesn't mean he's a bad person. Just an incompetent pilot.

mtgoat666 - 3-21-2016 at 09:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver

I heard he is 70, should have a few hours. Unless he just got his license it must be something else. S&H may have something there.

He probably had a "senior moment" and froze up, with a momentary lapse of reasoning ability.

Lee - 3-21-2016 at 10:11 PM

Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, Chapter 16:

''POOR JUDGMENT CHAIN is a series of mistakes that may lead to an accident or incident. Two basic principles generally associated with the creation of a poor judgment chain are: (1) One bad decision often leads to another; and (2) as a string of bad decisions grows, it reduces the number of subsequent alternatives for continued safe flight. ADM is intended to break the poor judgment chain before it can cause an accident or incident.''

''AERONAUTICAL DECISION MAKING (ADM) is a systematic approach to the mental process used by pilots to consistently determine the best course of action in response to a given set of circumstances.''

4x4abc - 3-21-2016 at 10:16 PM

I have been teaching extreme stuff for a very long time.
The older we get, the less we are sometimes able to adjust in situations of high stress. Especially unfamiliar stress.

Signs of that inability to react start in the mid 50's (my limited observations)
70's? High likelihood.
However, mental training and lotsa practice eliminate those lapses.

Remember those old guys making a wrong turn into a farmers market, plowing through the crowd unable to stop?

chavycha - 3-21-2016 at 11:59 PM

Odd. My mind has a tough time ascribing this to outright failure to maintain directional control - that's not a narrow runway and that's a LOT of drift. As already covered in this thread, there is a slight left-turning tendency on takeoff but it's something you learn to correct for on your first few takeoffs as a student pilot. I guess the guy could've frozen up in the heat of the moment and figured he'd just yank it off the ground before he hit the trees?

On the mechanical issue side, something like a seized left main caliper, or nose gear steering link failure, perhaps?

Do Mooneys of that era have steerable or free-castering nosegear?

[Edited on 3-22-2016 by chavycha]

Gulliver - 3-22-2016 at 01:16 AM

I live near the runway and went down to look things over. The damage I can see is all from the crash though, of course, a serious investigation might uncover some malfunction. What does bother me is that the main gear seems to be retracted and the nose gear is down about 1/4 and the prop tips are bent. I cannot imagine pulling the gear up at an altitude of a few feet. All of that could be crash damage though.

Second hand word around here is that the pilot complained of a wind gust. If someone held a gun to my head and forced me to make some half baked judgement, I would say that it was pilot error triggered by unfamiliarity with the field. Pulled it off the ground too soon and drifted into the fence. I don't believe the field has a history of accidents.

All total speculation on my part, of course. It's a parts plane now. Everything is either bent or tweaked or broken.

[Edited on 3-22-2016 by Gulliver]

BajaGringo - 3-22-2016 at 06:29 AM

Dolly Vincenza was the person there who caught this on video - actually they were two different videos - and sent them to me on facebook. I combined the videos into one and did some minor editing before uploading it on our group.

I see somebody has already hijacked it and uploaded it to youtube...

[Edited on 3-22-2016 by BajaGringo]

4x4abc - 3-22-2016 at 07:55 AM

I watched the video several times
at 0:14 a separate cloud of dust puffs up behind the plane
right at that moment it starts veering left

before the puff of dust the plane was going straight

Lee - 3-22-2016 at 09:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo

Dolly Vincenza was the person there who caught this on video - actually they were two different videos - and sent them to me on facebook. I combined the videos into one and did some minor editing before uploading it on our group.

I see somebody has already hijacked it and uploaded it to youtube...

[Edited on 3-22-2016 by BajaGringo]

Did Dolly have more info? Be good to know if there was a mechanical problem.

BajaGringo - 3-22-2016 at 07:43 PM

Did Dolly have more info? Be good to know if there was a mechanical problem.

Here is what was shared in our group:

The plane, a Mooney M20C was registered out of Meza, Arizona to Arthur Goold (N6246U) and he had made the trip down to Mulege to help with the transport of some doctors working with the Flying Samaritans. According to the pilot he was hit with an unexpected strong gust of wind when about to take off from the Serenidad airstrip, bringing the 4 seater aircraft back down hard and pushing him to the left along a fence near the airstrip, shortly after 9:00AM local time.

Paramedics from the Red Cross as well as a local military patrol responded to the incident, offering to take the men to the local hospital. Both men refused, only needing minor first-aid attention from the emergency responders onsite.

Fortunately, both men were able to walk away from the crash with the plane suffering the majority of the damage to its rotor and right wing.

motoged - 3-23-2016 at 11:32 AM