BajaNomad - Changing Mission History

Changing Mission History

bajaguy - 4-7-2016 at 02:32 PM

Remove the cross??

http://ktla.com/2016/04/07/judge-christian-cross-has-no-plac...

4x4abc - 4-7-2016 at 02:48 PM

let me add a cross while we still can

bajaguy - 4-7-2016 at 02:54 PM

Thank you...........the PC crowd is getting out of hand. next they will want to delete the mission altogether

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

let me add a cross while we still can

Mexitron - 4-7-2016 at 02:57 PM

Not sure why the ACLU gets its panties in a wad over historical depictions of crosses...there's a lot more pressing matters...let's see, do we need to change all the cities named after Christian saints too? Or the the name Los Angeles?

bajaguy - 4-7-2016 at 02:59 PM

Just wait.........

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

Not sure why the ACLU gets its panties in a wad over historical depictions of crosses...there's a lot more pressing matters...let's see, do we need to change all the cities named after Christian saints too? Or the the name Los Angeles?

MMc - 4-7-2016 at 03:06 PM

Let us focus on B S instead for important items. Like a Magician working a slight of hand trick. Americans are great at watching shining objects while ignoring the important ones.

SQUIRREL!!!!!

bezzell - 4-7-2016 at 04:53 PM

well, it IS a torture device after all. (rather grim imo)

SFandH - 4-7-2016 at 05:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

Not sure why the ACLU gets its panties in a wad over historical depictions of crosses.

The ACLU is not the plaintiff, it is representing the plaintiffs who are listed on the first page of the link below. If you disagree, your disagreement is not with the ACLU but with these folks and the deciding judge's idea of separation of church and state expressed in the first amendment.

http://documents.latimes.com/court-order-l-county-seal/

[Edited on 4-8-2016 by SFandH]

4x4abc - 4-7-2016 at 06:00 PM

and it's really worth looking at WHO is suing:

David K - 4-7-2016 at 06:15 PM

The tiny tiny cross on top of Mission San Gabriel (the first building in / founding of Los Angeles)??? Is that the fuss and wasted dollars is all about??

SFandH - 4-7-2016 at 06:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The tiny tiny cross on top of Mission San Gabriel (the first building in / founding of Los Angeles)??? Is that the fuss and wasted dollars is all about??

No. It's about a symbol of a specific religion on a graphic that represents the state.

DianaT - 4-7-2016 at 07:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The tiny tiny cross on top of Mission San Gabriel (the first building in / founding of Los Angeles)??? Is that the fuss and wasted dollars is all about??

No. It's about a symbol of a specific religion on a graphic that represents the state.

Yes.

TMW - 4-7-2016 at 07:36 PM

I thought the catholic priest built missions in California that became centers for the various settlements like Los Angeles. If so then a cross would be the thing to do.

willardguy - 4-7-2016 at 09:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DianaT

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by David K

The tiny tiny cross on top of Mission San Gabriel (the first building in / founding of Los Angeles)??? Is that the fuss and wasted dollars is all about??

No. It's about a symbol of a specific religion on a graphic that represents the state.

Yes.

gracias

DavidT - 4-7-2016 at 10:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MMc

Let us focus on B S instead for important items. Like a Magician working a slight of hand trick. Americans are great at watching shining objects while ignoring the important ones.

SQUIRREL!!!!!

SQUIRRELS are not shiny ergo SQUIRRELS are important.

fdt - 4-7-2016 at 11:49 PM

A tiny cross and a big fuss. So just eliminate it.
Now, in regards to that same seal for the County of Los Angeles, what about the cow? Or is this ACLU thing just about a Christian / Catholic (in this case) symbol?
Will they also sue to take away the cow? A sacred symbol in Hinduism
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_cow
What about the fish?
http://www.religionfacts.com/christian-fish

And the Great Seal of the State of California with a Greek Godess?
Ah and yes, the names of all the Catholic Saints, will those need to be changed also? Diegoville, Barbaratown, New Fernando, Franciscoland, Bernardino Junction, Clemente Canyons, Capistrano Farms, Margarita Ranch, Joaquin Flats, Josesville, Monica Beach, just to name a few.

redhilltown - 4-7-2016 at 11:57 PM

Well then, let us add to this California symbol, the dead bodies of the slave laborers of the missions.

David K - 4-8-2016 at 06:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fdt

A tiny cross and a big fuss. So just eliminate it.
Now, in regards to that same seal for the County of Los Angeles, what about the cow? Or is this ACLU thing just about a Christian / Catholic (in this case) symbol?
Will they also sue to take away the cow? A sacred symbol in Hinduism
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_cow
What about the fish?
http://www.religionfacts.com/christian-fish

And the Great Seal of the State of California with a Greek Godess?
Ah and yes, the names of all the Catholic Saints, will those need to be changed also? Diegoville, Barbaratown, New Fernando, Franciscoland, Bernardino Junction, Clemente Canyons, Capistrano Farms, Margarita Ranch, Joaquin Flats, Josesville, Monica Beach, just to name a few.

Good response Ferna!

dtbushpilot - 4-8-2016 at 07:30 AM

The precedence has been clearly set that no religious symbols of any kind can be displayed in or on a government building or vehicle. I personally think it's a silly waste of time and money, the majority of taxpayers that have to bear the financial burden of this change (and more to come) probably feel the same way. If this were a democracy we could simply vote no and be done with it but we have that pesky government document that we all have to abide by.

It's not about what I think or anyone else thinks, it's about the rule of law and it's interpretation by our supreme court.

I would not be in favor of removing the cross from the mission, it would render it an inaccurate depiction of a historic building. I would remove the mission and replace it with something that wouldn't offend anyone....like a blank space or something similar.

Expect to see the faces of Washington and Jefferson chiseled off of Mount Rushmore in the future, we can't be glorifying slave owners like that, someone might be offended.......

MMc - 4-8-2016 at 07:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DavidT

Quote: Originally posted by MMc

Let us focus on B S instead for important items. Like a Magician working a slight of hand trick. Americans are great at watching shining objects while ignoring the important ones.

SQUIRREL!!!!!

SQUIRRELS are not shiny ergo SQUIRRELS are important.

I was watching the misleading and unimportant stuff when one ran by.

Ateo - 4-8-2016 at 08:18 AM

Oh the Christians are soooooooooo persecuted..............

Separation of Church and State should be paramount.

Just switch the TINY cross out for a TINY crescent and see how ya feel about THAT.

Majority doesn't rule. We have a secular constitution and it's what makes this country so great.

Keep your unproven gods out of our courthouses, county buildings and please help stop the police from giving us directions to your churches:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/04...

DISCLAIMER: Many of the above posters I consider friends and acquaintances. I'm in no way intending to criticize you personally, I'm only criticizing the idea.

Your friend, Ateo :biggrin:

[Edited on 4-8-2016 by Ateo]

SFandH - 4-8-2016 at 09:09 AM

Now for the rest of the story.

It turns out that when the current version of the seal was created in 2004 the cross was not included. And, 10 years prior the Board of Supervisors voted to remove the cross from the version of the seal then in use.

The cross was added to the current seal last year. This move of adding the cross resulted in the Board being sued by a group of religious leaders and scholars from different faiths.

If the Board had not insisted on adding the cross last year, an overt move to add a religious symbol, this lawsuit would not have happened.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-county-seal-laws...

[Edited on 4-8-2016 by SFandH]

DianaT - 4-8-2016 at 09:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Now for the rest of the story.

It turns out that when the current version of the seal was created in 2004 the cross was not included. And, 10 years prior the Board of Supervisors voted to remove the cross from the version of the seal then in use.

The cross was added to the current seal last year. This move of adding the cross resulted in the Board being sued by a group of religious leaders and scholars from different faiths.

If the Board had not insisted on adding the cross last year, an overt move to add a religious symbol, this lawsuit would not have happened.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-county-seal-laws...

[Edited on 4-8-2016 by SFandH]

Interesting. They should have left it alone. Just like In God we Trust was added to our money and Under God added to our Pledge, it should not have happened. Once it happens, too many people tend to think it has "always" been there.

Thanks for the Rest Of the Story. :-)

bezzell - 4-8-2016 at 01:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Oh the Christians are soooooooooo persecuted..............

Separation of Church and State should be paramount.

Just switch the TINY cross out for a TINY crescent and see how ya feel about THAT.

Majority doesn't rule. We have a secular constitution and it's what makes this country so great.

Keep your unproven gods out of our courthouses, county buildings and please help stop the police from giving us directions to your churches:
[Edited on 4-8-2016 by Ateo]

" lettuce pray " :lol: