BajaNomad

Dead sea turtles, scorpion bay

surfinggrandpa71 - 6-9-2016 at 06:34 AM

Hi y'all,
My wife and I just returned from a 2 week stay in Scorpion Bay aka ( San Juanico). Great time, fun waves, nice people to boot..However, during many of our beach walks around the point and bay, we saw numerous dead sea turtles, some very small, some decent sized. Needless to say it put a damper on a wonderful place. I asked the fisherman how there were dying and they said the big commercial boats kill them and everything else. We never saw a commercial boat in 2 weeks, but we did see a juvenile stuck in a local net right off the beach on our last day. I was surprised to see the amount of dead sea life in these nets, is this legal ? Just sad to think that Baja Sur may soon be a place of folklore, of how there used to be sea turtles , dolphin, and many other species. Long live Baja !!

BajaMama - 6-9-2016 at 10:07 AM

I just got back from two weeks in Punta Chivato - same thing, saw four dead turtles; first time I saw dead turtles like that in 15 years. So sad that they are so mindlessly killed.

rts551 - 6-9-2016 at 10:27 AM

THere is supposed to be a moratorium on all fishing in the gulf of Ulloa which includes that area. You mean local fisherman were out anyway?


http://www.itravel-cabo.com/news/cabo-news/4-month-fishing-b...

AKgringo - 6-9-2016 at 10:46 AM

I am not that familiar with the currents along that coastline, but isn't it likely that the dead marine life drifted to that location from points north of Scorpion Bay?

I am even less familiar with currents on the Cortez side, but it is sad to see it happen anywhere!

janai229 - 6-9-2016 at 02:34 PM

Yes, there s a moratorium but I believe it didn't go into effect until June 1st. I may not have the exact date right but once it goes into effect, the boats will not be able to go out.

surfinggrandpa71 - 6-10-2016 at 04:09 AM

Not sure about the moratorium, however the day we saw a small juvenile dead in a net 100 yards from shore was June 5th......I guess they are disregarding the ruling. About 15 boats were not far from shore all dropping nets, indeed very sad.

rts551 - 6-10-2016 at 06:58 AM

Hopefully Sargapa gets out there soon.

Pescador - 6-10-2016 at 07:19 AM

Boy, so far everything gets blamed for this. In Santa Rosalia, it is supposedly the Boleo Mine. I have been told that there is an autopsy ordered for one of the turtles that was still in good enough condition to send to the lab. When I started doing research on the net, I found the same thing happening around Puerto Vallarta. Now you indicate some dead turtles on the Mag Bay side.
Current thinking from SAGARPA is that it may be related to a red tide that has effected the Medusa Jellyfish, leaving them with a poison in their bodies. These get eaten by the Turtles and it is proving toxic. At this point, no one knows but hopefully we will get an autopsy before too long, to help squash the speculation.
As for fishing, it is my understanding from talking to people on the other side, that they are able to fish once they exit Mag Bay. I have not yet confirmed that but will be talking to the PESCA people who are helping us with the Punta Chivato Tournament in the coming weeks.

rts551 - 6-10-2016 at 08:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Pescador  
Boy, so far everything gets blamed for this. In Santa Rosalia, it is supposedly the Boleo Mine. I have been told that there is an autopsy ordered for one of the turtles that was still in good enough condition to send to the lab. When I started doing research on the net, I found the same thing happening around Puerto Vallarta. Now you indicate some dead turtles on the Mag Bay side.
Current thinking from SAGARPA is that it may be related to a red tide that has effected the Medusa Jellyfish, leaving them with a poison in their bodies. These get eaten by the Turtles and it is proving toxic. At this point, no one knows but hopefully we will get an autopsy before too long, to help squash the speculation.
As for fishing, it is my understanding from talking to people on the other side, that they are able to fish once they exit Mag Bay. I have not yet confirmed that but will be talking to the PESCA people who are helping us with the Punta Chivato Tournament in the coming weeks.


I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.

Pescador - 6-10-2016 at 06:47 PM

OK, I talked to the PESCA guys and they confirmed my impression. The waters of Mag Bay are closed to fishing, but the open ocean, beyond the Bocas are open. Now that may be in response to non-commercial fishing because I was asking the question, so I will clarify that when I get a chance.
Now for the turtles. They are getting reports from Mag Bay all the way around to Bay of Los Angeles of turtles dying and showing up on the beaches. PROFEPA has a turtle submitted for biopsy that they think should give a good sample, so I will post the information as soon as I hear. But, it looks like it is something in their diet that causing them to be poisoned and at this point they are leaning heavily toward the Medusa Jellyfish.

DaliDali - 6-10-2016 at 08:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  


I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.


Yet those same commercials can launch in their normal beach place and simply turn right around the point and do what they do??...

Closing off estero areas (not outside as stated) to rod and reel fishermen seems draconian at best.
I have fished the SOC for 15 years full time (lots of turtles) and have NEVER EVER come close to hooking a turtle.

For the life of me, if they only allow catch and release rod and reel fishing, I can't see how releasing a couple of corvina or keeping a couple of corvina is going to impact the turtles one iota.

If Abreojos to Mag Bay pangueros are using nets, are those nets legal?
If not, jack them up......if they are legal, the Fed government should be inspecting returning boats as they hit the beach and do their thing.
It seems the Fed government would rather pay pangueros not to fish than doing their job and enforcing existing no take laws.

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2016 at 08:25 PM

You guarantee there is no fishing?
Ha!
Bans just mean fishermen are now out of sight, departing and arriving at new locations, under darkness, etc.
Fishermen gotta eat, fishermen will keep doing what they gotta do to pay the bills.

Btw, nets kill everything in their path. More net means more dead turtles. Of course the net fishermen will tell you it's toxic diet,...




Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  


Quote: Originally posted by rts551  


I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.


Yet those same commercials can launch in their normal beach place and simply turn right around thre point and do what they do??...

Closing off estero areas (not outside as stated) to rod and reel fishermen seems draconian at best.
I have fished the SOC for 15 years full time (lots of turtles) and have NEVER EVER come close to hooking a turtle.

For the life of me, if they only allow catch and release rod and reel fishing, I can't see how releasing a couple of corvina or keeping a couple of corvina is going to impact the turtles one iota.

If Abreojos to Mag Bay pangueros are using nets, are those nets legal?
If not, jack them up......if they are legal, the Fed government should be inspecting returning boats as they hit the beach and do their thing.
It seems the Fed government would rather pay pangueros not to fish than doing their job and enforcing existing no take laws.

rts551 - 6-10-2016 at 08:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  


I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.


Yet those same commercials can launch in their normal beach place and simply turn right around the point and do what they do??...

Closing off estero areas (not outside as stated) to rod and reel fishermen seems draconian at best.
I have fished the SOC for 15 years full time (lots of turtles) and have NEVER EVER come close to hooking a turtle.

For the life of me, if they only allow catch and release rod and reel fishing, I can't see how releasing a couple of corvina or keeping a couple of corvina is going to impact the turtles one iota.

If Abreojos to Mag Bay pangueros are using nets, are those nets legal?
If not, jack them up......if they are legal, the Fed government should be inspecting returning boats as they hit the beach and do their thing.
It seems the Fed government would rather pay pangueros not to fish than doing their job and enforcing existing no take laws.


I have hooked turtles in Estero Coyote (Campo Rene) numerous times, (PITA). The problem is not that the pangas are taking turtles (they generally know better). Problem is turtles dead in the nets and then being thrown in the ocean. I don't think you understand the problem, nor what the federal government is trying to do in this study (moratorium). Sorry you can not have your couple of fish.


On edit.. DAli you think it is bad for a poor rod and reel guy..think about the guy trying to make a living.


[Edited on 6-11-2016 by rts551]

BigBearRider - 6-10-2016 at 09:51 PM

I saw several dead turtles near Punta Chivato about a month ago when I was down there. I also received a pic of one that washed up on the beach in front of our house last week (I was also told there was a dead shark there...). I believe that Russ has seen more.

DaliDali - 6-11-2016 at 03:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  


I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.


Yet those same commercials can launch in their normal beach place and simply turn right around the point and do what they do??...

Closing off estero areas (not outside as stated) to rod and reel fishermen seems draconian at best.
I have fished the SOC for 15 years full time (lots of turtles) and have NEVER EVER come close to hooking a turtle.

For the life of me, if they only allow catch and release rod and reel fishing, I can't see how releasing a couple of corvina or keeping a couple of corvina is going to impact the turtles one iota.

If Abreojos to Mag Bay pangueros are using nets, are those nets legal?
If not, jack them up......if they are legal, the Fed government should be inspecting returning boats as they hit the beach and do their thing.
It seems the Fed government would rather pay pangueros not to fish than doing their job and enforcing existing no take laws.


I have hooked turtles in Estero Coyote (Campo Rene) numerous times, (PITA). The problem is not that the pangas are taking turtles (they generally know better). Problem is turtles dead in the nets and then being thrown in the ocean. I don't think you understand the problem, nor what the federal government is trying to do in this study (moratorium). Sorry you can not have your couple of fish.


On edit.. DAli you think it is bad for a poor rod and reel guy..think about the guy trying to make a living.


[Edited on 6-11-2016 by rts551]


I understand the problem as well as anyone and stand by my assertion that rod and reel fishermen are not the cause of dead or dying turtles washing up on the beach.

Net fishermen seem to be the culprit, or as Pescador stated....due to some toxic levels in turtle food sources that are yet unconfirmed

How many commercial pangueros launch from the beach slot and turn north around the point and north of the closure zone?
With nets....without nets? No turtles up near La Bocana?
Unless your vigilant 7-24....guaranteed no fishing is fantasy.

On edit..from what I understand, pangueros are being paid to not fish.....so crying poor panguero is not entirely accurate is it?

surfinggrandpa71 - 6-11-2016 at 04:35 AM

I am no forensic expert, but I assure you the 6 or 7 dead turtles we saw were killed due to being strangled. The net lines left marks on their flippers or neck where they had gotten stuck in the net. We saw eels, pufferfish,halibut, rays, sea horses,corbina, and tons of other fish washing up. Maybe some due to a minor red tide?? doubtful, as the swell seem to clear out the red tide by about 90% and it never really returned . Plus, myself and a few other campers saw the dead juvenile in the net down by the beach It now makes sense as we would hear boats going out very early in the dark if this is not legal.

BigWooo - 6-11-2016 at 04:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  

On edit..from what I understand, pangueros are being paid to not fish.....so crying poor panguero is not entirely accurate is it?


I talked to a couple fisherman and they are getting paid. I don't know the pay, but the amount is based on how many months per year they were paying members of the cooperative. Full time fisherman are paid more. The guys I've talked to are happy because fishing sucks this time of year anyway. What no one is clear on is if rod/reel fishing from a boat is legal. Some say yes, some say no. Definitely no nets allowed.

Mula - 6-11-2016 at 05:41 AM

Only the pangueros who belong to co-ops are being paid.
And I don't think the payments have started yet.
Guys still going out of Lopez with their nets.

surfinggrandpa71 - 6-11-2016 at 05:58 AM

The fisherman could make more money doing turtle dives in the future with rich gringo divers vs. killing them all.. It is indeed very sad because we all remember what California sea life used to be growing up before it was decimated by over fishing.

Pescador - 6-11-2016 at 06:38 AM

The moratorium was started by the United States who has been putting lots of pressure on Mexico to do something to stop killing turtles. The word is that if they did take some direct action, then they would shut down all fish imports into the US. All of the abalone and lobster go to Asia, so I can not imagine that is any kind of an issue.
The fishermen were caught up in a double bind. They are being paid according the the report filed with SAGARPA. That is probably like a business person only getting paid for what he filed with the IRS.
But it sure sounds like people at Mexico City deciding what is best for the fishermen at Mag Bay.

BajaBlanca - 6-11-2016 at 06:12 PM

I have not seen or heard of dead turtles here in Bocana.

However,yesterday on the beach by the Cabaņas, there are many dead red langostini.

I did not take a photo as we were watching dolphins frolicking very close to shore.

Bajaboy - 6-11-2016 at 08:20 PM

My neighbor was just over and mentioned a number of dead turtles in Santa Rosalia. He also mentioned something about a boat leaking phosphorus in La Bocana as well killing a lot of sea life. My neighbor, Tarraya is one of the most respected fishermen in town so I deem the information credible.

surfinggrandpa71 - 6-12-2016 at 05:16 AM

Do not want to beat this topic to a pulp, but I received an email yesterday from a couple we met while camping down in San Juanico. They said this week there was another turtle caught in a net right near !st point and a few surfers tried to free it. They went and got a knife to cut the net but , no luck, the turtle had expired,,,,,,,,,,,another sad ending. I assume destroying a fishermans net would be a bigger crime than saving a turtle.

rts551 - 6-12-2016 at 08:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy  
My neighbor was just over and mentioned a number of dead turtles in Santa Rosalia. He also mentioned something about a boat leaking phosphorus in La Bocana as well killing a lot of sea life. My neighbor, Tarraya is one of the most respected fishermen in town so I deem the information credible.


That boat was parked out side the Pacific area of Bocana and Abreojos for quiet a while. Lots of rumors, from it was smuggling to it was disabled and leaking. I think they finally figured out it was just waiting for cargo orders.

surfinggrandpa71 - 6-16-2016 at 06:21 AM

My son in law is in Scorpion Bay now, he sent us an email stating two more dead turtles yesterday at low tide near the 2nd point area, they look like they expired not long ago,,,,,,,,,,,sad news again.

BigBearRider - 6-16-2016 at 02:07 PM

Per this article, there were 35 dead ones found in the Santa Rosalia area in a week:

http://www.unotv.com/noticias/estados/baja-california-sur/de...