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surfinggrandpa71
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Dead sea turtles, scorpion bay
Hi y'all,
My wife and I just returned from a 2 week stay in Scorpion Bay aka ( San Juanico). Great time, fun waves, nice people to boot..However, during many
of our beach walks around the point and bay, we saw numerous dead sea turtles, some very small, some decent sized. Needless to say it put a damper on
a wonderful place. I asked the fisherman how there were dying and they said the big commercial boats kill them and everything else. We never saw a
commercial boat in 2 weeks, but we did see a juvenile stuck in a local net right off the beach on our last day. I was surprised to see the amount of
dead sea life in these nets, is this legal ? Just sad to think that Baja Sur may soon be a place of folklore, of how there used to be sea turtles ,
dolphin, and many other species. Long live Baja !!
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BajaMama
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Location: Pleasanton/Punta Chivato
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Mood: Got Baja fever!!
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I just got back from two weeks in Punta Chivato - same thing, saw four dead turtles; first time I saw dead turtles like that in 15 years. So sad that
they are so mindlessly killed.
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rts551
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THere is supposed to be a moratorium on all fishing in the gulf of Ulloa which includes that area. You mean local fisherman were out anyway?
http://www.itravel-cabo.com/news/cabo-news/4-month-fishing-b...
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AKgringo
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I am not that familiar with the currents along that coastline, but isn't it likely that the dead marine life drifted to that location from points
north of Scorpion Bay?
I am even less familiar with currents on the Cortez side, but it is sad to see it happen anywhere!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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janai229
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Yes, there s a moratorium but I believe it didn't go into effect until June 1st. I may not have the exact date right but once it goes into effect, the
boats will not be able to go out.
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surfinggrandpa71
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Not sure about the moratorium, however the day we saw a small juvenile dead in a net 100 yards from shore was June 5th......I guess they are
disregarding the ruling. About 15 boats were not far from shore all dropping nets, indeed very sad.
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rts551
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Hopefully Sargapa gets out there soon.
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Pescador
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Boy, so far everything gets blamed for this. In Santa Rosalia, it is supposedly the Boleo Mine. I have been told that there is an autopsy ordered
for one of the turtles that was still in good enough condition to send to the lab. When I started doing research on the net, I found the same thing
happening around Puerto Vallarta. Now you indicate some dead turtles on the Mag Bay side.
Current thinking from SAGARPA is that it may be related to a red tide that has effected the Medusa Jellyfish, leaving them with a poison in their
bodies. These get eaten by the Turtles and it is proving toxic. At this point, no one knows but hopefully we will get an autopsy before too long, to
help squash the speculation.
As for fishing, it is my understanding from talking to people on the other side, that they are able to fish once they exit Mag Bay. I have not yet
confirmed that but will be talking to the PESCA people who are helping us with the Punta Chivato Tournament in the coming weeks.
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rts551
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Quote: Originally posted by Pescador  | Boy, so far everything gets blamed for this. In Santa Rosalia, it is supposedly the Boleo Mine. I have been told that there is an autopsy ordered
for one of the turtles that was still in good enough condition to send to the lab. When I started doing research on the net, I found the same thing
happening around Puerto Vallarta. Now you indicate some dead turtles on the Mag Bay side.
Current thinking from SAGARPA is that it may be related to a red tide that has effected the Medusa Jellyfish, leaving them with a poison in their
bodies. These get eaten by the Turtles and it is proving toxic. At this point, no one knows but hopefully we will get an autopsy before too long, to
help squash the speculation.
As for fishing, it is my understanding from talking to people on the other side, that they are able to fish once they exit Mag Bay. I have not yet
confirmed that but will be talking to the PESCA people who are helping us with the Punta Chivato Tournament in the coming weeks.
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I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.
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Pescador
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OK, I talked to the PESCA guys and they confirmed my impression. The waters of Mag Bay are closed to fishing, but the open ocean, beyond the Bocas
are open. Now that may be in response to non-commercial fishing because I was asking the question, so I will clarify that when I get a chance.
Now for the turtles. They are getting reports from Mag Bay all the way around to Bay of Los Angeles of turtles dying and showing up on the
beaches. PROFEPA has a turtle submitted for biopsy that they think should give a good sample, so I will post the information as soon as I hear.
But, it looks like it is something in their diet that causing them to be poisoned and at this point they are leaning heavily toward the Medusa
Jellyfish.
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DaliDali
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| Quote: Originally posted by rts551 |
I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.
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Yet those same commercials can launch in their normal beach place and simply turn right around the point and do what they do??...
Closing off estero areas (not outside as stated) to rod and reel fishermen seems draconian at best.
I have fished the SOC for 15 years full time (lots of turtles) and have NEVER EVER come close to hooking a turtle.
For the life of me, if they only allow catch and release rod and reel fishing, I can't see how releasing a couple of corvina or keeping a couple of
corvina is going to impact the turtles one iota.
If Abreojos to Mag Bay pangueros are using nets, are those nets legal?
If not, jack them up......if they are legal, the Fed government should be inspecting returning boats as they hit the beach and do their thing.
It seems the Fed government would rather pay pangueros not to fish than doing their job and enforcing existing no take laws.
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mtgoat666
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You guarantee there is no fishing?
Ha!
Bans just mean fishermen are now out of sight, departing and arriving at new locations, under darkness, etc.
Fishermen gotta eat, fishermen will keep doing what they gotta do to pay the bills.
Btw, nets kill everything in their path. More net means more dead turtles. Of course the net fishermen will tell you it's toxic diet,...
| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali |
| Quote: Originally posted by rts551 |
I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.
|
Yet those same commercials can launch in their normal beach place and simply turn right around thre point and do what they do??...
Closing off estero areas (not outside as stated) to rod and reel fishermen seems draconian at best.
I have fished the SOC for 15 years full time (lots of turtles) and have NEVER EVER come close to hooking a turtle.
For the life of me, if they only allow catch and release rod and reel fishing, I can't see how releasing a couple of corvina or keeping a couple of
corvina is going to impact the turtles one iota.
If Abreojos to Mag Bay pangueros are using nets, are those nets legal?
If not, jack them up......if they are legal, the Fed government should be inspecting returning boats as they hit the beach and do their thing.
It seems the Fed government would rather pay pangueros not to fish than doing their job and enforcing existing no take laws. |
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rts551
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Posts: 6699
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | | Quote: Originally posted by rts551 |
I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.
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Yet those same commercials can launch in their normal beach place and simply turn right around the point and do what they do??...
Closing off estero areas (not outside as stated) to rod and reel fishermen seems draconian at best.
I have fished the SOC for 15 years full time (lots of turtles) and have NEVER EVER come close to hooking a turtle.
For the life of me, if they only allow catch and release rod and reel fishing, I can't see how releasing a couple of corvina or keeping a couple of
corvina is going to impact the turtles one iota.
If Abreojos to Mag Bay pangueros are using nets, are those nets legal?
If not, jack them up......if they are legal, the Fed government should be inspecting returning boats as they hit the beach and do their thing.
It seems the Fed government would rather pay pangueros not to fish than doing their job and enforcing existing no take laws. |
I have hooked turtles in Estero Coyote (Campo Rene) numerous times, (PITA). The problem is not that the pangas are taking turtles (they generally
know better). Problem is turtles dead in the nets and then being thrown in the ocean. I don't think you understand the problem, nor what the
federal government is trying to do in this study (moratorium). Sorry you can not have your couple of fish.
On edit.. DAli you think it is bad for a poor rod and reel guy..think about the guy trying to make a living.
[Edited on 6-11-2016 by rts551]
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BigBearRider
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I saw several dead turtles near Punta Chivato about a month ago when I was down there. I also received a pic of one that washed up on the beach in
front of our house last week (I was also told there was a dead shark there...). I believe that Russ has seen more.
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DaliDali
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| Quote: Originally posted by rts551 | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | | Quote: Originally posted by rts551 |
I can guarantee there is no commercial fishing. The Coop here in Punta Abreojos had to pull 36 boats and are not allowed to go South of Abreojos.
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Yet those same commercials can launch in their normal beach place and simply turn right around the point and do what they do??...
Closing off estero areas (not outside as stated) to rod and reel fishermen seems draconian at best.
I have fished the SOC for 15 years full time (lots of turtles) and have NEVER EVER come close to hooking a turtle.
For the life of me, if they only allow catch and release rod and reel fishing, I can't see how releasing a couple of corvina or keeping a couple of
corvina is going to impact the turtles one iota.
If Abreojos to Mag Bay pangueros are using nets, are those nets legal?
If not, jack them up......if they are legal, the Fed government should be inspecting returning boats as they hit the beach and do their thing.
It seems the Fed government would rather pay pangueros not to fish than doing their job and enforcing existing no take laws. |
I have hooked turtles in Estero Coyote (Campo Rene) numerous times, (PITA). The problem is not that the pangas are taking turtles (they generally
know better). Problem is turtles dead in the nets and then being thrown in the ocean. I don't think you understand the problem, nor what the
federal government is trying to do in this study (moratorium). Sorry you can not have your couple of fish.
On edit.. DAli you think it is bad for a poor rod and reel guy..think about the guy trying to make a living.
[Edited on 6-11-2016 by rts551] |
I understand the problem as well as anyone and stand by my assertion that rod and reel fishermen are not the cause of dead or dying turtles washing up
on the beach.
Net fishermen seem to be the culprit, or as Pescador stated....due to some toxic levels in turtle food sources that are yet unconfirmed
How many commercial pangueros launch from the beach slot and turn north around the point and north of the closure zone?
With nets....without nets? No turtles up near La Bocana?
Unless your vigilant 7-24....guaranteed no fishing is fantasy.
On edit..from what I understand, pangueros are being paid to not fish.....so crying poor panguero is not entirely accurate is it?
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surfinggrandpa71
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I am no forensic expert, but I assure you the 6 or 7 dead turtles we saw were killed due to being strangled. The net lines left marks on their
flippers or neck where they had gotten stuck in the net. We saw eels, pufferfish,halibut, rays, sea horses,corbina, and tons of other fish washing up.
Maybe some due to a minor red tide?? doubtful, as the swell seem to clear out the red tide by about 90% and it never really returned . Plus, myself
and a few other campers saw the dead juvenile in the net down by the beach It now makes sense as we would hear boats going out very early in the dark
if this is not legal.
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BigWooo
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali |
On edit..from what I understand, pangueros are being paid to not fish.....so crying poor panguero is not entirely accurate is it?
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I talked to a couple fisherman and they are getting paid. I don't know the pay, but the amount is based on how many months per year they were paying
members of the cooperative. Full time fisherman are paid more. The guys I've talked to are happy because fishing sucks this time of year anyway.
What no one is clear on is if rod/reel fishing from a boat is legal. Some say yes, some say no. Definitely no nets allowed.
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Mula
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Only the pangueros who belong to co-ops are being paid.
And I don't think the payments have started yet.
Guys still going out of Lopez with their nets.
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surfinggrandpa71
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The fisherman could make more money doing turtle dives in the future with rich gringo divers vs. killing them all.. It is indeed very sad because we
all remember what California sea life used to be growing up before it was decimated by over fishing.
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Pescador
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The moratorium was started by the United States who has been putting lots of pressure on Mexico to do something to stop killing turtles. The word is
that if they did take some direct action, then they would shut down all fish imports into the US. All of the abalone and lobster go to Asia, so I can
not imagine that is any kind of an issue.
The fishermen were caught up in a double bind. They are being paid according the the report filed with SAGARPA. That is probably like a business
person only getting paid for what he filed with the IRS.
But it sure sounds like people at Mexico City deciding what is best for the fishermen at Mag Bay.
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