BajaNomad - Origins of "California"

Origins of "California"

motoged - 6-17-2016 at 10:18 AM

A recent poster suggested California started in Baja in the 1600's....

I wasn't convinced of that , and being aware of the myth of black Amazons ruling such a place, I followed up with a short but interesting read that certainly fills in some blanks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_California

willardguy - 6-17-2016 at 10:20 AM

hmmmm....can't seem to get it on my box?

Mexitron - 6-17-2016 at 10:22 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_California

Mexitron - 6-17-2016 at 10:34 AM

That's interesting, one of the theories is "California" is derived from the 'caliph' (the religious leader who rules in place of Mohammed) which 'caliphate', a form of government, is derived from (ISIS is currently trying to reestablish the caliphate that was in place hundreds of years ago in the Middle East's golden age). Seeing as though Islamic presence had a huge influence in Spain it makes sense.

chuckie - 6-17-2016 at 10:36 AM

actually it's a truncation of a term used in Colorado in the 60's "Don't Californicate Colorado"....But they did...

sargentodiaz - 6-17-2016 at 10:39 AM

I'm surprised that DavidK hasn't chimed in as he's the absolute expert here on the Californias.

motoged - 6-17-2016 at 11:10 AM

Mexitron,
Yes, that lesson in language/history also caught my eye....the article teases out some more areas of possible research...for geography as well as the histories...

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

That's interesting, one of the theories is "California" is derived from the 'caliph' (the religious leader who rules in place of Mohammed) which 'caliphate', a form of government, is derived from (ISIS is currently trying to reestablish the caliphate that was in place hundreds of years ago in the Middle East's golden age). Seeing as though Islamic presence had a huge influence in Spain it makes sense.

David K - 6-17-2016 at 11:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by sargentodiaz

I'm surprised that DavidK hasn't chimed in as he's the absolute expert here on the Californias.

Well, this thread began just 2 hours ago, and I was busy writing a new article... then I have a sprinkler leak to repair in Carlsbad (what a beautiful day today is).

In my new book, on Page 3-5, I describe the discovery and naming of California by the Spanish...
Here is Page 3

motoged - 6-17-2016 at 11:33 AM

It is always entertaining to see how Europeans "discovered" lands that had been inhabited for eons....

David, please provide a map for where I can visit those Calafia Amazons my next trip down....I like a woman who has lots of gold and a fierce grip :coolup:

For the rest of you....I promise a trip report with pics once David sends me the map.

chuckie - 6-17-2016 at 11:39 AM

You one weird Dude, Motog...

David K - 6-17-2016 at 11:45 AM

LOL

I think 4x4abc knows where the Amazons live and that's what keeps him living happily in La Paz!

chuckie - 6-17-2016 at 11:47 AM

I thought they all lived in Minnesota and were named "Helga"...

David K - 6-17-2016 at 11:51 AM

Californians not real welcoming in 1530s:

grizzlyfsh95 - 6-17-2016 at 11:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

It is always entertaining to see how Europeans "discovered" lands that had been inhabited for eons....

David, please provide a map for where I can visit those Calafia Amazons my next trip down....I like a woman who has lots of gold and a fierce grip :coolup:

For the rest of you....I promise a trip report with pics once David sends me the map.

It never fails that this Big Richard shows up to taint the water.

chuckie - 6-17-2016 at 12:10 PM

HE is the OP....Show some respect....Fo da Kahuna...

Bajatripper - 6-17-2016 at 09:19 PM

Speaking of names, a Baja California Sur native and noted writer once lamented that his half of the peninsula has had its name stolen twice. First, as David noted, it was the original holder of the name "California" until the US state of California took sole custody of that name and relegated the peninsula to Baja California. And later, when the northern half of the peninsula became the State of Baja California in the 1950s, the southern peninsula was left with having to add the "Sur" to distinguish it from its northern peninsular neighbor. I've always wondered how it is that the northern state was allowed to take ownership of Baja California since now one must distinguish on if one is talking about the entire peninsula or just the northern state. "Baja California Norte" seems like a natural solution, and yet hasn't been used.

windgrrl - 6-18-2016 at 07:36 AM

Thank you for starting this interesting discussion which prompted me to consult the Google for more insight.

Origins of California
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calafia

Excerpt:

Calafia is a warrior queen who ruled over a kingdom of Black women living on the mythical Island of California. The character of Queen Calafia was created by Spanish writer Garci Rodríguez de Montalvo who first introduced her in his popular novel entitled Las sergas de Esplandián (The Adventures of Esplandián), written around 1500.[1]

In the novel, Calafia is a pagan who is convinced to raise an army of women warriors and sail away from California with a large flock of trained griffins so that she can join a Muslim battle against Christians who are defending Constantinople. In the siege, the griffins harm enemy and friendly forces, so they are withdrawn. Calafia and her ally Radiaro fight in single combat against the Christian leaders, a king and his son the knight Esplandián. Calafia is bested and taken prisoner, and she converts to Christianity. She marries a cousin of Esplandián and returns with her army to California for further adventures.[2]

The name of Calafia was likely formed from the Arabic word khalifa (religious state leader) which is known as caliph in English and califa in Spanish. Similarly, the name of Calafia's monarchy, California, likely originated from the same root, fabricated by the author to remind the 16th-century Spanish reader of the reconquista, a centuries-long fight between Christians and Muslims which had recently concluded in Spain. The character of Calafia is used by Rodríguez de Montalvo to portray the superiority of chivalry in which the attractive virgin queen is conquered, converted to Christian beliefs and married off. The book was very popular for many decades—Hernán Cortés read it—and it was selected by author Miguel de Cervantes as the first of many popular and assumed harmful books to be burnt by characters in his famous novel Don Quixote.[2]

David K - 6-18-2016 at 08:12 AM

See how fun history can be! :light:

Mexitron - 6-18-2016 at 09:37 AM

David, what is the history on the painting you posted (date, artist, etc.)?

motoged - 6-18-2016 at 11:41 AM

windgrrl,
Thanks for the excerpt....this is the story told to me by my sister who was a kayak guide in Baja for 10 years....and who introduced me to Baja in 1989 via a 10 day kayak trip to Isla Espiritu Santo...

The story / metaphor of marriage as a spiritual conquest is an interesting twist to margaritas and sand.

And the Christians and Muslims are still bashing away at declaring whose god is best....ya can't trump that fight.

Quote: Originally posted by windgrrl

Thank you for starting this interesting discussion which prompted me to consult the Google for more insight.

Origins of California
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calafia

Excerpt:

Calafia is a warrior queen who ruled over a kingdom of Black women living on the mythical Island of California. ....

David K - 6-18-2016 at 11:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

David, what is the history on the painting you posted (date, artist, etc.)?

I photographed it in the museum in La Paz. A modern interpretation of how the natives felt about the Spanish military, it would seem? Maybe BajaTripper knows more, he was there also, and knows La Paz history?

rts551 - 6-18-2016 at 05:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

David, what is the history on the painting you posted (date, artist, etc.)?

It would be nice to put a citation on it. Soldier had his sword out...converting the natives maybe?

SFandH - 6-18-2016 at 05:47 PM

You really can't blame the indigenous folks of the western hemisphere for being upset with the Europeans, after all, the Spaniards brought with them smallpox, measles, scarlet fever, typhoid, typhus, influenza, pertussis (whooping cough), tuberculosis, cholera, diphtheria, chickenpox, the common cold, and sexually transmitted diseases.

All of which didn't exist in this hemisphere.

I've read that diseases introduced by the Europeans killed 90% of the indigenous inhabitants.

Biological warfare.

[Edited on 6-19-2016 by SFandH]

David K - 6-18-2016 at 06:27 PM

Quote:

It would be nice to put a citation on it. Soldier had his sword out...converting the natives maybe?
[/rquote]

Says the Nomad who almost never shares photos?
My camera didn't get anything below the painting. I thought it stood alone nicely.

Soldiers did not covert /baptize anyone.

rts551 - 6-18-2016 at 06:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Nope hardly ever...Some people steal them to put out there on the internet without citations.

David K - 6-18-2016 at 08:52 PM

I didn't steal the photo, I took the picture myself. :rolleyes:

motoged - 6-18-2016 at 09:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Soldiers did not covert /baptize anyone.

Too busy killing and raping.....paving the way for the missionaries to collect slave labour for their imperial aspirations.

David K - 6-18-2016 at 10:06 PM

Or, you can read the writings of both the missionaries and non-missionaries of the period and decide for yourself instead of repeating the "PC inspired propaganda" of modern writers?

I am not a religious person, I only enjoy in clearing up the conflicts of data published. I hope that there can be a clearer view of what happened so we can better understand the motive for so much work done in such a hostile land, so far from where the missionaries came from.

I want to know if the "magic" that Baja possesses over many of us Nomads was also at work over the missionaries!

Again, right or wrong (by today's standards), my history posts are only to share what is known to have happened and not to justify any of it one way or another. Everyone involved or victimized by the missionaries have been dead over 100 years.

Bajatripper - 6-18-2016 at 10:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

David, what is the history on the painting you posted (date, artist, etc.)?

That looks like something you might find in your Dawson Book Store Baja Travel Series books, David. I would go combing through my books, but most of them are in La Paz.

motoged - 6-19-2016 at 10:38 AM

David,
Please don't assume that some of us who have been aware of the injustices and damage done by religious imperialism are gullible folks who only read "PC inspired propaganda" (whatever that means....seems you have your own "political correctness"....so that term is pretty useless when you think about it).

Starting with my elementary school history lessons, and those continuing throughout seven years of university education provided a plethora of factual evidence that made such injustices abundantly evident....without any teacher/literature being motivated by "political correctness".

You point out that victims of this religious imperialism have been dead for over 100 years. WTF does that suggest? That it is irrelevant?

You will be dead in 30 years....does that make all your pro-missionary zeal research and promo irrelevant?

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Or, you can read the writings of both the missionaries and non-missionaries of the period and decide for yourself instead of repeating the "PC inspired propaganda" of modern writers?

......my history posts are only to share what is known to have happened and not to justify any of it one way or another. Everyone involved or victimized by the missionaries have been dead over 100 years.

What the LOSER Aborigines THINK....................... ?

MrBillM - 6-19-2016 at 03:32 PM

Is of NO importance.

Screw THEM.

The Europeans WON.

And, Life is BETTER as a result.

Barry A. - 6-19-2016 at 03:55 PM

Everything in history is "relevant" depending on your frame of reference and context, but to talk about past "injustice" as something we today should take any blame for is not too productive, in my opinion, and frankly not particularly interesting--------stuff happened, and there is NOTHING we can do about it because everybody involved is dead, other than try to learn from it. At the time, it seemed like the thing to do, and the motives are complex and beyond knowing, IMO. I am not sure man has progressed much--------some pretty awful stuff still happens today, and even that is depending on your point of view.

Why this is brought up over and over again is beyond me.

David K - 6-19-2016 at 04:29 PM

Religious Imperialism???
Is that from Karl Marx?
Again, I have no pro-Catholic motive. I am not Catholic. I only want the data that is known to be accurately told. No guilt or innocence implied. The reader can form their own opinions.
My books: www.oldmissions.com

rts551 - 6-19-2016 at 06:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.

Everything in history is "relevant" depending on your frame of reference and context, but to talk about past "injustice" as something we today should take any blame for is not too productive, in my opinion, and frankly not particularly interesting--------stuff happened, and there is NOTHING we can do about it because everybody involved is dead, other than try to learn from it. At the time, it seemed like the thing to do, and the motives are complex and beyond knowing, IMO. I am not sure man has progressed much--------some pretty awful stuff still happens today, and even that is depending on your point of view.

Why this is brought up over and over again is beyond me.

Tell that to holocaust survivors. We should always learn from history.

rts551 - 6-19-2016 at 06:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Religious Imperialism???
Is that from Karl Marx?
Again, I have no pro-Catholic motive. I am not Catholic. I only want the data that is known to be accurately told. No guilt or innocence implied. The reader can form their own opinions.
My books: www.oldmissions.com

Yes David, Religious leaders are and were conquerors.

SFandH - 6-19-2016 at 06:54 PM

Wasn't it all driven by the search for gold and silver? An interesting fact is Spain was the first western nation to experience inflation. They found so much silver in the New World that instead of increasing wealth as much as they thought it would, the value of silver decreased. Supply and demand.

Another interesting fact is that slave trade from Africa started after most of the indigenous people in the Caribbean died from the bacterias and viruses that sailed across the Atlantic with the explorers.

Opps, all the indigenous slaves are dead, gotta go get some from Africa to cut the sugar cane.

[Edited on 6-20-2016 by SFandH]

bajaguy - 6-19-2016 at 06:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Tell that to holocaust survivors. We should always learn from history.

Our government (US) should learn some lessons from Custer

mtgoat666 - 6-19-2016 at 07:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Yes David, Religious leaders are and were conquerors.

All of the large religions have imperialist ambitions. They don't get large unless their leaders are motivated by power and greed. The Catholic Church was once a ruthless conguering power, acting in concert with states having overlapping ambitions.

Learning from the PAST

MrBillM - 6-20-2016 at 12:41 PM

Or, just peddling guilt to feel good about oneself ?

With the Left, it seems to be the latter. They seem to love feeling guilty about White Man Wickedness, sometimes current day, but mostly so far in the past that none of the so-called "guilty" have been alive for the last few hundred years.

Given current world events, it doesn't seem that there has been too much "Learning".

And, likely, won't be.

Those who have the capability to oppress others to advantage are still doing so to whatever extent they can.

But, IF it makes you feel GOOD to feel GUILTY ............. GO AHEAD.

Just don't expect the rest of us (non-oppressors) to join in.

DENNIS - 6-20-2016 at 12:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy

Our government (US) should learn some lessons from Custer

Yep!!! Less talk...more machine guns.

Custer Lesson Learned

MrBillM - 6-20-2016 at 03:48 PM

The battle at Little Big Horn can be considered Pyrrhic in that the U.S. "learned" from the calamity that they needed to put an END to such problems in the future and engaged in a successful campaign to eradicate the American Indian population as a continued threat.

mtgoat666 - 6-20-2016 at 07:33 PM

Who knows what are the origins of the word? Does it even matter in the 21st century?

Today "California" means many things to people all over the world. California is often seen as a mythical land, nirvana, the epitome of all things American. In the USA alone, most gringos outside of California are green with envy at Californians.

California uber alles!

Mexitron - 6-21-2016 at 03:45 AM

I have a rather paradoxical view of the American Indian--on the one hand they had an intense spiritual connection to the North American continent, their wonderful mythologies giving evidence of that, and one that we are sometimes slow to translate into our thinking. And yet, they routinely practiced slavery, kidnapping, and ritual torture of captives---not only on the European invaders but amongst neighboring tribes. I'm not sure what the motivation for torturing people to death was---perhaps a bravado thing but I don't think that helped their cause in the long run, as it was appalling to most Europeans ( ironically at the same time we were importing slaves in dreadful conditions and torturing those who didn't fall in lockstep...still some of that going on today, come visit the south). A great book that gives an impartial look at a slice of American Indian history, the Comanche in particular, is 'Empire of the Summer Moon' by S.C. Gwynne. The story revolves around half white/half Indian Qanah Parker, the last war chief of the Comanche---very interesting! But yes, disease did 90% of the damage--one wanders if these diseases which routinely ravaged Europeans but did not kill them all off, were a genetic advantage for conquering new areas--in the same way that Sickle Cell Anemia is a genetic advantage against Malaria at the cost of some contracting the disease.

Osprey - 6-21-2016 at 06:56 AM

Yesterday I was researching something when I saw a long Wiki work on Land Grants. Whether from Spain or Mexico there were many large grants to Indian tribes in reparation for usurpation and slavery (Called Ranchos).

Goat, I love California and all its natural wonders. My pal Ray doesn't see it your way. He's a hardcase but he's still vowing to go there, live there, work there. He said "I'm gonna sneak across the border in Liberal Land. As long as I can find a tribe with a scribe who can get me almost free Wonderweed, I won't care where my taxes go or who is out there diggin the weed, not workin' while I do the heavy lifting. No one cares. Why should I?
It's all good."

A LAND to LOVE................BUT

MrBillM - 6-21-2016 at 09:13 AM

As a good friend of mine who has traveled the world extensively often says (usually regarding 3rd world nations).................."It's a place of natural wonders. The ONLY thing wrong with it is the People".

Fits California well.