BajaNomad

New Locked gate coming.

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bajatrailrider - 7-19-2016 at 10:30 AM

Hey Off road guys. The route from El Coyotes to Rancho Santa Cruz to Vicente Guerrero Canyon.Will soon have locked gate (sorry I dont use GPS) anyone that goes this way knows it.This route with coming locked gate,will shut down. All travel form East west ,Except old Baja 500.The rancho in Question is the one before Vicente Guerrero Canyon trail.I have used this route over 30 years.We where there 2 week's ago,eating Lunch under the 1 tree at this rancho.Woman drives up asks what are you doing here.We where on 8 dirt bikes,She told us. New owner at rancho. I told her that we have permission,to ride here.From (I wont use his name) Guy with red race truck. She said he does not own this place. So I told her we will respect your wish,but since this is main route of travel.Why would you not post closed? So we did in fact finish our ride to Vicente Guerrero. So long story short She is the owner.The guy in red truck her,her son.With new house to the Lt she is living there full time. So as many people will go this route,She will be putting up locked gate. I will Try to find new route to north/west outside there rancho property.Anybody interested on recon new route,Pm me. We will try early Aug if not too hot.

TMW - 7-19-2016 at 10:52 AM

Thanks for the info. Not surprising, more and more fences and locked gates going up in Baja.

bajatrailrider - 7-19-2016 at 11:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Thanks for the info. Not surprising, more and more fences and locked gates going up in Baja.
This is true TMW, On shut down routes.I just posted this because if,someone low on fuel.Long way back to Meling rancho. Also if you back track to Observatory paved road (From rancho in Question) Also yellow locked gate. I do remember many years ago old route that by passes rancho.It was Moto only route,that's what I intend to check out.Also if any 4x4 routes.

BajaGringo - 7-19-2016 at 12:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Thanks for the info. Not surprising, more and more fences and locked gates going up in Baja.


Yes, I am sorry to say that you are right Tom.

Over the years I have made lots of friends in the offroad racing community down here as well as those who simply enjoy riding offroad. I have logged a ton of miles myself offroad on both 2 and 4 wheels and understand its strong appeal. But as often happens, it's the few bad apples that end up spoiling it for the rest. A few months back I saw a post on facebook that a friend here shared from one of his contacts; a SCORE event prerunner had left the race trail and did countless donuts across his planted fields, ruining a significant portion of his crops that season. Even though this happened 3 or 4 years ago, the photo continues to be circulated and negative feelings against offroad racing continue to grow, especially with the chain of spectator deaths in recent years.

Here at La Chorera we get a lot of offroaders come through and most of them do slow down out of respect for those of us who live here. I'd say about 10% of these groups however, rip through here like it was the Baja 1000 and they were fighting for the lead. In the years since we have been living here we have now seen 1 elderly man get hit by a motorcycle and several very scary, close calls with small children who were playing by the road and not seen by the vehicles following the lead driver with all the dust being raised. I can't even begin to count all the dogs and cats belonging to members of our community that have been run over and left as road kill, not even stopping to apologize.

What this is provoking is a lot of anger and a few have talked about taking some extreme measures which I don't care to share publicly. More of the cooler heads here are working on plans right now to create a series of "dip-speed bump-dip" combinations that will be spaced so as not to be a big problem at 10-15mph but at 40mph+ will cause some damage. They will be marked and those who choose to ignore the warnings will get a very unpleasant surprise.

For years I have been calling for the offroad community to regulate themselves much better than they have done up to now. Continuing to ignore what is going on will only bring more locked gates, community built road obstacles and even an eventual ban on the racing events down here if things don't change soon...

bajatrailrider - 7-19-2016 at 01:21 PM

This hits the nail on the head. Wanna be racers,wake up your running it for all.When I lead my rides,Im very careful who I ride with. Racing by ranch houses/roads that share traffic ruining it for all.There is a very few riders,and some group rides running it for all. Save our riding areas,slow down enjoy Baja.

chuckie - 7-19-2016 at 01:47 PM

Sign of the times, sadly. Too many people, too little respect. Almost all of the ground here is now off limits to hunters and others We now have trespassers arrested, no exceptions. 10 years ago, all they had to do was ask....

mtgoat666 - 7-19-2016 at 02:21 PM

Its just common sense that when driving on private land you should be a pleasant guest. It is also common sense that you slow down and dont create a dust cloud when driving unpaved road by a home or pedestrian.
Sadly, knuckledraggers got no common sense.

SFandH - 7-19-2016 at 02:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo  

More of the cooler heads here are working on plans right now to create a series of "dip-speed bump-dip" combinations that will be spaced so as not to be a big problem at 10-15mph but at 40mph+ will cause some damage.


That's the classic Mexican solution to speeders.

Plus, you're a social media Internet guy, spread the word. I bet most of the violators are social media users.

bajabuddha - 7-19-2016 at 03:08 PM

Trouble is with social media, people can read all they want to, and the idjits that flaunt their lead-feet won't care at all..... but let 'em end up with the tip of their tongue missing or a good skull-whack on the roof, that'll slow 'em down for sure.

” VIVA BAJA ! ” VIVA TOPES ! THEY WORK.

mtgoat666 - 7-19-2016 at 03:13 PM

Someone needs to invent speed-activated spike strips.

bajatrailrider - 7-19-2016 at 03:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
Hey Off road guys. The route from El Coyotes to Rancho Santa Cruz to Vicente Guerrero Canyon.Will soon have locked gate (sorry I dont use GPS) anyone that goes this way knows it.This route with coming locked gate,will shut down. All travel form East west ,Except old Baja 500.The rancho in Question is the one before Vicente Guerrero Canyon trail.I have used this route over 30 years.We where there 2 week's ago,eating Lunch under the 1 tree at this rancho.Woman drives up asks what are you doing here.We where on 8 dirt bikes,She told us. New owner at rancho. I told her that we have permission,to ride here.From (I wont use his name) Guy with red race truck. She said he does not own this place. So I told her we will respect your wish,but since this is main route of travel.Why would you not post closed? So we did in fact finish our ride to Vicente Guerrero. So long story short She is the owner.The guy in red truck her,her son.With new house to the Lt she is living there full time. So as many people will go this route,She will be putting up locked gate. I will Try to find new route to north/west outside there rancho property.Anybody interested on recon new route,Pm me. We will try early Aug if not too hot.


Hi Larry,
If I post a map can you say between which two names on the map is now closed? For ecample, is the closed section between Santa Cruz and Valladares? Between Valladares and San Miguel (near Mission Santo Domingo)? etc. THANK YOU!



Here is the Almanac, which shows more roads and trails (possible yours?):



Can you describe where the gate is on this map?
Thanks!
David I knew you where going to map This thank you. Both maps do not even show main road. Check if you have anymore maps that may show area.Starting at the wash going up Vicente Guerrero wash (at bridge on HWY 1) going east. It goes up canyon east old score/late record race route. When you climb that hard 4x4 route You go Rt, (south): This is a main wide dirt road not showing on your maps. :)

David K - 7-19-2016 at 05:56 PM

Some roads are shown as just a string of dots (trails) instead of thin lines. At some point you leave the Santo Domingo River canyon to get to Santa Cruz if going up... Can you see any ranch names that are along your road?

Here is the map with the three places named, circled... and blue arrows along possible routes between them...

bezzell - 7-19-2016 at 06:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Its just common sense that when driving on private land you should be a pleasant guest. It is also common sense that you slow down and dont create a dust cloud when driving unpaved road by a home or pedestrian.
Sadly, knuckledraggers got no common sense.


speaking of common sense ... Bajanomad Offroad Crew carry bolt-cutters. It's been documented here!
problem solved :o

bajatrailrider - 7-19-2016 at 06:14 PM

Thanks David I cant make sense of these Maps,even that I know this like my backyard. How about someone that also knows this route with Gps tracks. There is (Was) only one way to get down to the wash,as yellow gate locked to access observatory paved road. Next weekend I will have name of said Rancho.

ehall - 7-19-2016 at 07:31 PM

Hey Larry do you think that was the road I just traveled in may?

mtgoat666 - 7-19-2016 at 08:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bezzell  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Its just common sense that when driving on private land you should be a pleasant guest. It is also common sense that you slow down and dont create a dust cloud when driving unpaved road by a home or pedestrian.
Sadly, knuckledraggers got no common sense.


speaking of common sense ... Bajanomad Offroad Crew carry bolt-cutters. It's been documented here!
problem solved :o


I know a few property owners that have amusing and creative punishments for people that use bolt cutters :lol::lol: karma!

Baja Bucko - 7-19-2016 at 09:52 PM

Two years ago while riding La Mula Mil--riding/packing mules for 4 months from the tip (SJ de C) to Tecate, we were on a remote dirt road 3 days out of San Jose del Cabo. We heard off in the distance the roar of ORVs and so we tried to gather up all of our pack animals and get all to a safe spot and sent a rider up ahead to try and give a heads up to the ORVs which should have had someone checking the road ahead of them. Two of our team did the best they could to get off the narrow road and were almost taken out by one of the ORVs...... complete with drivers with all the radios etc and running as fast as they could. The first rig barreled around a curve oblivious to all but the path in front of him and missed sliding/slamming into the two riders by about 10 feet and did not even stop to see if we were ok or anything...if we had been the ancient Mexican pick-up loaded with a family in the back that we had passed 20 minutes earlier, the family members would have been killed or seriously injured. The total of 5 OR rigs looked like they were possibly rented from Cabo and NONE of the drivers or vehicle riders involved showed any concern or respect over the carelessness of their running "blind" at speed and around curves. Each one sped off as fast as they could after regaining control of their rigs......we were being watched over by someone in the skies that day. Another year when riding ECR thru Calamajue to Mission Santa Maria, several bat-outta-hell bikers nearly sent themselves rolling and flying ---again on a remote curve and coming upon us lightning fast....thank God we heard the roar and tried to prepare for a potential collision at speed. Again, these guys seemed clueless. I can only imagine what locals with ranging livestock in the really remote areas w roads have to experience. Careless folks like this give a bad name to the ORV world. All it takes are a few bad eggs to make all ORVs look bad. In the end it is all about responsibility and respect.......:(

mtgoat666 - 7-20-2016 at 06:01 AM

Here in the USA, I always support bans of ORVs from public lands. ORV operators don't respect the land, and don't respect other users of the land. Best they be confined to limited ORV lands, like Glamis, where they can only hurt themselves, and the sand dunes self-repair the wheel ruts.

mtgoat666 - 7-20-2016 at 06:03 AM

Perfectly understandable why Baja land owners put up fences and lock their gates!
Quote: Originally posted by Baja Bucko  
Two years ago while riding La Mula Mil--riding/packing mules for 4 months from the tip (SJ de C) to Tecate, we were on a remote dirt road 3 days out of San Jose del Cabo. We heard off in the distance the roar of ORVs and so we tried to gather up all of our pack animals and get all to a safe spot and sent a rider up ahead to try and give a heads up to the ORVs which should have had someone checking the road ahead of them. Two of our team did the best they could to get off the narrow road and were almost taken out by one of the ORVs...... complete with drivers with all the radios etc and running as fast as they could. The first rig barreled around a curve oblivious to all but the path in front of him and missed sliding/slamming into the two riders by about 10 feet and did not even stop to see if we were ok or anything...if we had been the ancient Mexican pick-up loaded with a family in the back that we had passed 20 minutes earlier, the family members would have been killed or seriously injured. The total of 5 OR rigs looked like they were possibly rented from Cabo and NONE of the drivers or vehicle riders involved showed any concern or respect over the carelessness of their running "blind" at speed and around curves. Each one sped off as fast as they could after regaining control of their rigs......we were being watched over by someone in the skies that day. Another year when riding ECR thru Calamajue to Mission Santa Maria, several bat-outta-hell bikers nearly sent themselves rolling and flying ---again on a remote curve and coming upon us lightning fast....thank God we heard the roar and tried to prepare for a potential collision at speed. Again, these guys seemed clueless. I can only imagine what locals with ranging livestock in the really remote areas w roads have to experience. Careless folks like this give a bad name to the ORV world. All it takes are a few bad eggs to make all ORVs look bad. In the end it is all about responsibility and respect.......:(

David K - 7-20-2016 at 08:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
Thanks David I cant make sense of these Maps,even that I know this like my backyard. How about someone that also knows this route with Gps tracks. There is (Was) only one way to get down to the wash,as yellow gate locked to access observatory paved road. Next weekend I will have name of said Rancho.


I put circles around Santa Cruz, Vicente Guerrero, and El Coyote.
I put arrows along possible routes that go from Santa Cruz to Vicente Guerrero. There are three or four shown on the Almanac. I was just wondering if your locked gate was along one of those... Thank you!






[Edited on 7-31-2016 by David K]

bajatrailrider - 7-20-2016 at 08:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Some roads are shown as just a string of dots (trails) instead of thin lines. At some point you leave the Santo Domingo River canyon to get to Santa Cruz if going up... Can you see any ranch names that are along your road?

Here is the map with the three places named, circled... and blue arrows along possible routes between them...

It looks like Rancho San Juan.

bajatrailrider - 7-20-2016 at 08:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Here in the USA, I always support bans of ORVs from public lands. ORV operators don't respect the land, and don't respect other users of the land. Best they be confined to limited ORV lands, like Glamis, where they can only hurt themselves, and the sand dunes self-repair the wheel ruts.
Dont label all off roaders as not caring Slime ball MT66.Your Rants about what you do in in the US. Have no business here in Baja. Even from slime balls in San Deigo.If you want to state Where all the same,you will be called out Slime ball. With me bringing Attention to off road problems in Baja,this is just a few.

TMW - 7-20-2016 at 09:12 AM

Here is a GE image of the area with the 2007 B1K route in light green. The dark green to Santa Cruz and up to the Observatory Rd at marker 1 is a section used in the Baja 500/1000 races before Baja Dark Skies closed the road thru their place.



I changed the red to white for DK.

[Edited on 7-20-2016 by TMW]

Mexitron - 7-20-2016 at 09:45 AM

Wow, times have changed...we drove the road to Portrero,Santa Cruz, and Vallardes in 1989....the first part south to Santa Cruz from the OBS road was pretty sketchy in places but passable...the drive down the canyon to Vallardes though was overgrown with 6-8 foot willow trees and other brush, couldn't see the road in places.

bajatrailrider - 7-20-2016 at 02:00 PM

The road from Vallardes,after any big rain is washed away. Dirt bike only,till they get the bulldozer out every year.It is passable now,If no gates. If you get down below then rancho in Question. TMW the route from J pin down Is the way I go,But Its not showing other road Up.

TMW - 7-20-2016 at 03:25 PM

Here are some more trails I traced

bajatrailrider - 7-20-2016 at 04:15 PM

Where you have nothing marked (Going up Vicente Wash) East that's the route we take. Back to top Rancho OLD Santa Cruz,that is another hot spot. Right after that going west is new rancho Santa Cruz Hot Spring. That guy is cool. If you remember,the fight at Old Rancho Santa Cruz. The owner did not pay his help, The help (man and wife) refused to leave. That went on for 7 years before they left.

David K - 7-20-2016 at 05:21 PM

I was told years ago about a hot spring at Valladares (or near it)... Never anything published about it I was aware of.
Is that what you are calling the New Rancho Santa Cruz Hot Spring?
Is it soakable?

bajatrailrider - 7-20-2016 at 07:26 PM

HAAAA David yes he has a hot spring.Here is the problem.He asked me years ago.Can I get riders to stay (Sleep over get Fed). I told him yes,one cond. The Hot spring he has,(Dirt pool) is sooo big the water is not hot. So I told him I will buy the blocks/cement. If you will build small hot spring pool (the water is hot coming out of the ground.) Well sad to say that was few years ago. He lost interest. This new rancho you can see on south side of road.The old Santa Cruz rancho, you cant see from road.

TMW - 7-21-2016 at 09:24 AM

I've added more trails in white.

TMW - 7-21-2016 at 09:25 AM

Where on the maps/images is the locked gate.

David K - 7-21-2016 at 09:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Where on the maps/images is the locked gate.


Yes Larry, do you have the GPS for it and then Tom or I can put the location on the paper map. Also, the hot spring location, too (or near it)... Thanks!

bajatrailrider - 7-21-2016 at 05:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
I've added more trails in white.

Ok TMW the white track up wash when it gets to second Y you hit main dirt road goes north or south If you keep going to Observatory road Metal locked gate (White or yellow) Now back track going to santa cruz half way there is rancho in question. As soon as I get name of rancho I hope you can pull it up on GPS tracks.

bajatrailrider - 7-21-2016 at 05:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
Where on the maps/images is the locked gate.


Yes Larry, do you have the GPS for it and then Tom or I can put the location on the paper map. Also, the hot spring location, too (or near it)... Thanks!
David sorry you missed my top post. I dont use GPS I wish I did,to give you way points. Some of the other guys I ride with use GPS,I will see if I can get tracks for you guys. Or better yet I will take you there are you ready,when it cools down

David K - 7-21-2016 at 06:06 PM

No, I read it way back when... then I forgot you said no GPS. LOL
So, the topo road map does not look familiar to you? You said above maybe Rancho San Juan... which is in the Santo Domingo Canyon where one of the arrowed roads comes down from Santa Cruz to it, using Canyon Arroyo Hondo (as labeled on the map).

TW and I just want to help you show the road with the locked gate so anyone else won't go miles and miles only to find a dead end caused by gating a once open road.

How does this look? (Rancho San Juan circled, and possible route withy blue arrows)

Can you describe where the gate is?




[Edited on 7-22-2016 by David K]

TMW - 7-21-2016 at 06:17 PM

I am game for it when it cools a little. I've been talking to the Roy, Nomad Squarecircle, about doing a trip down Baja way. I still want to get back east of El Socorro but south of the Visita San Isidoro turn off. There are some trails I did years ago that I want to see where they are now so I can trace them on GE.

TMW - 7-21-2016 at 06:39 PM

I've added pin marks with numbers. Larry can you locate the pin closest to where the gate might be. Maybe between two pins.



[Edited on 7-22-2016 by TMW]

bajatrailrider - 7-22-2016 at 07:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW  
I've added pin marks with numbers. Larry can you locate the pin closest to where the gate might be. Maybe between two pins.



[Edited on 7-22-2016 by TMW]
It looks like pin 9 . It is a oven up there now,maybe by Nov Im game.

David K - 7-22-2016 at 10:01 AM

Pin 9 (red arrow) is where the locked gate is???



Looks like on the map, at least two other routes to Mission Santo Domingo from Santa Cruz than the road through San Juan (SJ on Tom's map) that would go around the gate, yes?

bajatrailrider - 7-22-2016 at 10:53 AM

I know of one other route I have not done over 20years. Its not 4x4 route was plowed over by other rancho. On my bike I can recon all routes.So when you and TMW get here,we wont waist time on no go routes.Please give me plenty of advance notice. I have done many more mods to the Nissan Diesel. For 4x4 trails ready to go.

David K - 7-22-2016 at 11:15 AM

I would like to see the hot spring and any old mines (Valladares?). Thank you, Larry.

bajatrailrider - 7-22-2016 at 04:51 PM

How about the one in San Vicente David also. Waiting for your vacation time.

David K - 7-22-2016 at 05:58 PM

A hot spring (or mine) in San Vicente???
I just came home from 5 days vacation in Baja... Next one in September, but it will be back at our beach near San Felipe again... It was so comfortable for Baja Angel, she wants to go back at the next opportunity.

Baja Heat is good medicine! :cool:

bajatrailrider - 7-22-2016 at 06:58 PM

Hot spring in S.V Funny thing just talked to two couples that live in San Felipe. Said its too hot there,so there here on the beach. Your all nuts its too hot both places,take care David. I have a friend with home in San Felipe. Invited me over in Sept,Question since you know the area. The few times I was there riding bikes. It only was deep sand endless miles of woops. Any good wheeling there outside the woops.?

David K - 7-23-2016 at 07:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
Hot spring in S.V Funny thing just talked to two couples that live in San Felipe. Said its too hot there,so there here on the beach. Your all nuts its too hot both places,take care David. I have a friend with home in San Felipe. Invited me over in Sept,Question since you know the area. The few times I was there riding bikes. It only was deep sand endless miles of woops. Any good wheeling there outside the woops.?


Miles and miles of roads, washes, and riding... You can go between the sea and the sierra in several canyons and washes, besides the dirt roads.
How close to town is the hot spring of San Vicente?

bajatrailrider - 7-23-2016 at 09:05 AM

4 way to SV hot spring.Short way 35/45 min. Neat route water crossings,4x4 maybe needed to go this way. Next time I go will get pictures.Way too hot now.

David K - 7-23-2016 at 09:21 AM

OK... so really not in San Vicente but maybe 10-15 miles away... 10-4!

bajatrailrider - 7-23-2016 at 12:22 PM

Ok some what good news. My friend that owns 3 ranchos up there and one Cabin in forest said.The Rancho name is Arroyo Hondo. He said she is in same Ejido as he is.Also said at the meetings she is Cabrona. Said she cant not lock out people from passing past,unless Ejido permits it. They will not as other ranchos need pass that way. This is what I would do Hoping she wont lock gate anyway. All that pass that way,please go slow,dont make dust(yes that means 2mph near plants) If she tells you same story like she did me. I did not argue with her,to further make trouble. Even that she could not stop us,I left as she wanted. Please take this advice. Next month I will ride with rancher friend (that is dirt biker). Up there to recon other route,and talk to her again if she is there. With this info.

MMc - 7-23-2016 at 12:33 PM

Bajatrailrider, you are so on point here. The more people misuse and speed through the rancher land the more it will get shut down. I hate to see it, but the days of wide open Baja are getting fewer. Getting onto beaches is also going away. Not many that read Nomads are guilty but I have meet people that should not have been there( someplace in Baja) that found out about that place form nomads.
:(:(:mad:

bajatrailrider - 7-23-2016 at 01:20 PM

No one knows this more then me MMC. I moved (retired here to do) Dirt biking/4x4 off road.Being a local here,with ranchers as close by as across the road.They are cool,whats not cool is no respect from people.With me biking/ off roading almost every week. I still have found new abandoned routes. I always take time to stop at rancho house on the trail. To see if all is good,help them if in need. On my new routes that are not traveled by anyone.I dont share them with people I dont know.As you never know when they come back with racer brains.Or worse GPS it.All the nomads I know are cool and respectful.

David K - 7-23-2016 at 03:48 PM

Yes, all are... and if there are areas outsiders are asked to avoid, how about publishing them so none of us unintentionally drives into said area.

Yes, non-Nomads read this site, and if they choose not to respect the land then karma will catch up to them.

Most of us four wheelers are not racers and want to enjoy the bad roads and scenery. Our best trips off roading (four wheeling is a better term, since we are on roads) are the Mission Santa Marķa road and the Pole Line Road, both done a lot in Low Range and slow.

rts551 - 7-23-2016 at 06:21 PM

hmmm. guess we need to revisit the bolt cutter thread.

bajatrailrider - 7-23-2016 at 06:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
hmmm. guess we need to revisit the bolt cutter thread. Always one cry baby your it,go back to bed:)

David K - 7-23-2016 at 08:43 PM

As Harald has posted, the gate was at the far end of a long road historically open. Not enough fuel to get their G Wagons out any other way. It was the only option. Guess you missed that part of his trip report?

dtbushpilot - 7-23-2016 at 10:33 PM

Don't feed him David....

mtgoat666 - 7-24-2016 at 06:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
As Harald has posted, the gate was at the far end of a long road historically open. Not enough fuel to get their G Wagons out any other way. It was the only option. Guess you missed that part of his trip report?


The gas-bag is a tour guide, so he should have been more prepared, he should have planned ahead. Did he repair the damage he did? Was the road locked because of him previously doing off-road trips on private land? From his travelogues, he seems to travel with chain saws and shovels, and seems to be cutting brush to re-open roads,... the type of actions that make people want to put up gates on their land, eh?

bajatrailrider - 7-24-2016 at 07:18 AM

All nomads please Pay no attention to MT66 village Idiot of the year. No brains common sense.Now that you and your Cuz Rt have spoken.Waiting for your other Brother Nerdi to chime in. You three marooons are just losers.Since your the ring leader Mt you make you two cuz,just as brainless as you.Keep it up I enjoy the three marooons.

bajatrailrider - 7-24-2016 at 07:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
As Harald has posted, the gate was at the far end of a long road historically open. Not enough fuel to get their G Wagons out any other way. It was the only option. Guess you missed that part of his trip report?


The gas-bag is a tour guide, so he should have been more prepared, he should have planned ahead. Did he repair the damage he did? Was the road locked because of him previously doing off-road trips on private land? From his travelogues, he seems to travel with chain saws and shovels, and seems to be cutting brush to re-open roads,... the type of actions that make people want to put up gates on their land, eh?
marooon WORTHLESS:wow: POST

bajatrailrider - 7-24-2016 at 07:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
hmmm. guess we need to revisit the bolt cutter thread.
Mexican Land Lawyer of the year award. Worthless post:?:

MMc - 7-24-2016 at 09:48 PM

Trailrider, maybe not totally worthless. When do we start with "it's OK by date? Many things are changing in Baja. If a trail was good 10 years ago is OK to cut the look today?How about 5 or 3 years ago? Disrespecting another's property is disrespecting another. If we don't stop and talk to the owers and work things out, we will continue to lose access to many of those roads. You do not get to cut locks with impurity, we all will pay the price.


[Edited on 7-25-2016 by MMc]

chuckie - 7-25-2016 at 02:58 AM

There is NEVER a good reason to cut another mans lock.

BajaGringo - 7-25-2016 at 07:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
There is NEVER a good reason to cut another mans lock.


I agree with Chuckie on this one. Offroaders who ride with bolt cutters and an attitude that they have the right to simply cut through the locked gates of someone's private property are part of the growing problem down here. This attitude will only end up bringing MORE locked gates, road hazards and a possible ban to offroad racing down here.

Another thing to consider is that locked gate may possibly have been put up by a cartel down here to protect their drug growing/logistics operation in the remote areas of Baja. You cutting/busting through a locked gate in such a scenario could very likely get you shot.

Or worse...

TMW - 7-25-2016 at 08:05 AM

If I was with someone who had a heart attack, stroke or was badly hurt in an accident I would not have a problem cutting a lock or take a section of fence down to get thru for help. If I did take a fence down I would put it back up. If I cut a lock I would later try and find the owner.

David K - 7-25-2016 at 08:20 AM

Of course, and all of you who did not read 4x4abc's post last year about the cutting the chain, to get out, should be informed before passing judgement. They were at the end of a long dirt road, too far to turn around to reach a gas station. No option as it may be a month before the rancher shows up. The fence was not damaged and the only harm was a chain with one link removed. No sign was at the other end of the road 20+ miles away saying it was no longer open to through traffic (as it had been since the 1950s).

chuckie - 7-25-2016 at 08:26 AM

There is NEVER a good reason to cut another mans lock.........

David K - 7-25-2016 at 08:30 AM

TW posted the reason... life is more important than a chain at an abandoned ranch.

chuckie - 7-25-2016 at 08:36 AM

There Is NEVER a good reason to cut another mans lock....

bajaguy - 7-25-2016 at 08:37 AM

Sounds like a lack of planning on somebody's part
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Of course, and all of you who did not read 4x4abc's post last year about the cutting the chain, to get out, should be informed before passing judgement. They were at the end of a long dirt road, too far to turn around to reach a gas station. No option as it may be a month before the rancher shows up. The fence was not damaged and the only harm was a chain with one link removed. No sign was at the other end of the road 20+ miles away saying it was no longer open to through traffic (as it had been since the 1950s).

bajatrailrider - 7-25-2016 at 08:53 AM

As far as drug growers putting lock on gate. Not so first thing when Military does there rounds.If they see a lock,they cut it or drive over (take out wire /posts) I do not cut locks off. Where I ride even on main routes.When we come across new locked gate to block access.Problem many of the new locked routes,are not the property.Of the person locking route.The Mexicans that normally,travel these routes. Remove lock, gate So being that I know the area. Also ride with ranchers,I will take them on said route. They have told me,person that put gate up.Has no right to do so,that's why gone.Not saying all gates like this. Thing is the 3 marooons that post there worthless posts.Just like to bring up,the bad about anything. They do not post anything constitutive. In the case of Mt66 His stupid brainless posts are not only limited to off road. Everywhere he posts,he is put down told off. In the case of the Op in question.He had no option,as no fuel to got back. So the 3 marooons would like to make big news of this.So how did my first post,of working with ranchers. Have anything to do with Cutting lock off,or saying the op is not a responsible person. It is only attempt ,of marooons to change subject. I get it,so be where marooons you will be called out.

David K - 7-25-2016 at 08:56 AM

That weekend began at Mexicali (as far as gas goes)... down to the Pole Line Road for the run with Ken Cooke... two days in crawl 4x4 low range... then with me, TW and Frigatebird to look for the grave of Melchior Diaz, then they were returning to La Paz while we headed back north. The (always previously open) road, shown on maps, was their most direct way to Hwy. 3 near San Matias Pass to get on down to San Felipe and south.
The thread is here on Nomad, if anyone cares to read Harald and Karl's own words, rather than TW's and mine, please do so.

chuckie - 7-25-2016 at 08:57 AM

What is this "called out chit"? Are you threatening people?

BajaGringo - 7-25-2016 at 09:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
...Thing is the 3 marooons that post there worthless posts.Just like to bring up,the bad about anything. They do not post anything constitutive...


Really? That is all you see I do here on nomad?

Another reason why I spend less and less time here these days...

TMW - 7-25-2016 at 09:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo  
Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
...Thing is the 3 marooons that post there worthless posts.Just like to bring up,the bad about anything. They do not post anything constitutive...


Really? That is all you see I do here on nomad?

Another reason why I spend less and less time here these days...


Ron, everyone that knows you knows you are a stand up guy and respected.
I think this discussion got side tracked from where Larry was going.

rts551 - 7-25-2016 at 09:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo  
Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
...Thing is the 3 marooons that post there worthless posts.Just like to bring up,the bad about anything. They do not post anything constitutive...


Really? That is all you see I do here on nomad?

Another reason why I spend less and less time here these days...


There seems to be no room for disagreement on this forum. It degenerates immediately to name calling.

chuckie - 7-25-2016 at 09:36 AM

Disagree..name calling and threats seem to be coming from bajatrailrider...His posts are almost unintelligible.

bajatrailrider - 7-25-2016 at 12:41 PM

There not threats,name calling justified.For people that only live to think all must live the way they want.Since I dont tell Hikers/horse backers/boaters / what to do. The marooons have no right to tell off road people what to do.Its called live and let live.Hope you understand chuckie

bajatrailrider - 7-25-2016 at 02:54 PM

This I understand,but when the sewer posts. The sewer gets called out,you cannot justify anything MT66 says. This is a off road forum,not there bashing grounds of off road people. If my Credibility is lowered so be it.As long as the sewer posters,start thinking to knock it off. My mission accomplished.

chuckie - 7-25-2016 at 03:28 PM

There is NEVER a good reason to cut another mans lock.

Martyman - 7-25-2016 at 03:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Disagree..name calling and threats seem to be coming from bajatrailrider...His posts are almost unintelligible.


I think a maroon sewer is kinda like purple rain? (for clarification).

rts551 - 7-25-2016 at 04:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
This I understand,but when the sewer posts. The sewer gets called out,you cannot justify anything MT66 says. This is a off road forum,not there bashing grounds of off road people. If my Credibility is lowered so be it.As long as the sewer posters,start thinking to knock it off. My mission accomplished.


As many know on this forum, I off-road (jeep and quad) and we race off-road (quad and class 7). It does not mean I have to agree with what some off-roaders do.. nor does it justify any kind of name calling.
:mad:

chuckie - 7-25-2016 at 05:20 PM

I have been riding and racing in Baja since 1956. First trip was on a 500 Norton single. Many of the activities and attitudes I see now will bring about the end of Off Road access in Baja. More and more gates, angry people, less respect. The handwriting is on the wall. A lot of good folks will never get to enjoy what some of us have. BUT, maybe it's time......

bajatrailrider - 7-25-2016 at 05:43 PM

Here is the thing Rt at least you off road.You know what happened why he had to cut lock.Why bring up old dirt. It was a do or die problem. My whole post is about working on problems. Chuckie has me beat on his Norton Single. My first Baja ride( Chuckie will know this)In 1976 Rickman Triumph 820cc It was a 1972 model.Fast forward 2016 still riding,and try to teach.Others from getting along here.The Bs that is tolerated from People that dont live here,nor are off roaders.Would not be tolerated in the three other web sites I belong to.So I can say sorry to you since your a off road guy Rt.Keep in mind some off road trips dont go well. Its do or die to get out of there.So don't dwell on one problem.I Was lucky to go on pole line 4x4 trip one time.Interact with most that post here.All good people,wish most where like this in the world.

mtgoat666 - 7-25-2016 at 08:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
As far as drug growers putting lock on gate. Not so first thing when Military does there rounds.If they see a lock,they cut it or drive over (take out wire /posts) I do not cut locks off. Where I ride even on main routes.When we come across new locked gate to block access.Problem many of the new locked routes,are not the property.Of the person locking route.The Mexicans that normally,travel these routes. Remove lock, gate So being that I know the area. Also ride with ranchers,I will take them on said route. They have told me,person that put gate up.Has no right to do so,that's why gone.Not saying all gates like this. Thing is the 3 marooons that post there worthless posts.Just like to bring up,the bad about anything. They do not post anything constitutive. In the case of Mt66 His stupid brainless posts are not only limited to off road. Everywhere he posts,he is put down told off. In the case of the Op in question.He had no option,as no fuel to got back. So the 3 marooons would like to make big news of this.So how did my first post,of working with ranchers. Have anything to do with Cutting lock off,or saying the op is not a responsible person. It is only attempt ,of marooons to change subject. I get it,so be where marooons you will be called out.


Are you drunk? I don't know what else could explain your stream of conciousness rants and syntax.

David K - 7-25-2016 at 08:26 PM

Agree with you on that Larry
Too bad all who post here don't have either the opportunity or desire to meet or even camp with other Nomads. At least when we have a face to face talk it usually continues friendly or respectful. When we only see a handle or code name, no face to put a human element to the Nomad, then it is all too easy to talk less than human.
I would enjoy very much if someone would continue the Viva Baja type events we had back 10-16 years ago. Meeting others who loved Baja was so much fun.
The Pole Line Run of last year and Mission Santa Marķa run of 6 years ago was great fun, but only a dozen or so do those. I hope someone considers hosting future get-togethers.

bajatrailrider - 7-26-2016 at 07:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider  
As far as drug growers putting lock on gate. Not so first thing when Military does there rounds.If they see a lock,they cut it or drive over (take out wire /posts) I do not cut locks off. Where I ride even on main routes.When we come across new locked gate to block access.Problem many of the new locked routes,are not the property.Of the person locking route.The Mexicans that normally,travel these routes. Remove lock, gate So being that I know the area. Also ride with ranchers,I will take them on said route. They have told me,person that put gate up.Has no right to do so,that's why gone.Not saying all gates like this. Thing is the 3 marooons that post there worthless posts.Just like to bring up,the bad about anything. They do not post anything constitutive. In the case of Mt66 His stupid brainless posts are not only limited to off road. Everywhere he posts,he is put down told off. In the case of the Op in question.He had no option,as no fuel to got back. So the 3 marooons would like to make big news of this.So how did my first post,of working with ranchers. Have anything to do with Cutting lock off,or saying the op is not a responsible person. It is only attempt ,of marooons to change subject. I get it,so be where marooons you will be called out.


Are you drunk? I don't know what else could explain your stream of conciousness rants and syntax.
The village idiot from San Diego speaks again,anymore brain:?:less posts.

bajatrailrider - 7-26-2016 at 07:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Agree with you on that Larry
Too bad all who post here don't have either the opportunity or desire to meet or even camp with other Nomads. At least when we have a face to face talk it usually continues friendly or respectful. When we only see a handle or code name, no face to put a human element to the Nomad, then it is all too easy to talk less than human.
I would enjoy very much if someone would continue the Viva Baja type events we had back 10-16 years ago. Meeting others who loved Baja was so much fun.
The Pole Line Run of last year and Mission Santa Marķa run of 6 years ago was great fun, but only a dozen or so do those. I hope someone considers hosting future get-togethers.
You have people like MT66 that says. I dont need to drive a truck,I pay someone when I need things moved. Next time he is in Baja,gets stuck in his Yugo.Leave him there:):) Meeting people face to face,like you fellow off road guys/gals.Was A great experience from all walks of life.The whole group got along so well.Then when there was break downs all helped.When road was washed away all went to work.

TMW - 7-31-2016 at 07:59 AM

A friend sent me two GE images of the Ranch owner lady in question. Her ranch is above pin 4 and to the left of pin 5 in the image below.





Larry does this look right to you?

bajatrailrider - 7-31-2016 at 01:18 PM

That be the place TMW. Do you see any dirt road or trail to far North of that rancho to get by it?

bajatrailrider - 7-31-2016 at 01:29 PM

Next week if anybody interested,we will look for route outside of there fence line.I will have One rancho owner with me,to give go or no go on route if its possible. First try on bikes can cover lots of ground.

TMW - 7-31-2016 at 02:17 PM

Looking at the top map above with the pins. You could try going from
9-3-8-J or 1-2-7-8-J.

bajatrailrider - 7-31-2016 at 07:13 PM

That sounds like a plan,do you have google earth close up.Little more NE. Thanks

TMW - 8-1-2016 at 09:36 AM

I retraced several routes. The 07 Baja 1000 is in purple. I found trails going to Melings. The GE images are from 2/8/2014 so some trails may not be passable or by horse only, maybe a MC.

Overall of the area.


Close up of the gate owners area.


Larry if you want a closer look at any specific area let me know.

bajatrailrider - 8-1-2016 at 03:52 PM

8 to 7 to 2 looks good. Thanks TMW

bajatrailrider - 8-7-2016 at 11:18 AM

We did our recon run on Friday two Motos. Long story short the old Baja 1000 does by pass the problem rancho.Its still a no go you get to another locked gate.All routes and we check them all,locked gates. The only route we found is Moto only,but you still have to.Get to Observatory paved road,for about 1 mile.Then cut back in to dirt South,you end just South (1 mile) Camalu.We did go cross country,dodging Cactus- big rocks- one canyon. So what the 4x4s can do.Just dont make left turn to her Rancho. You end up on Observatory road just above Old Baja 500 route.4x4 could still then take that route in to Camalu.

mcnut - 8-12-2016 at 06:22 PM

I feel a need to keep this thread active so here is a quote from another forum including a portion of an email report directly from ejido members and my plea following;

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Here is email I received Its a long one so for now,just a first part. Its translated.

"Personal encounters by land owners, ranchers and residents in Baja reporting the following incidents with motosport participants: 1 recent,last 10 days as of 07/30/2016 aggressive and dangerous encounter to prevent contact between helicopter and rancher in pick up truck. Attempting to hail down passing group of sport truck raptors,and jeep reportedly led by Cameron Steel. Report of cutting fences violating land owners. Closing of routes and destroying private property."

The rest of email is just more detail and how they will shut us down in this riding area. I will post more later. I did in fact go up there (but not to problems at the rancho) Looking for new route on North west side. On that side no route as old Baja route,any and all roads trails. Fenced and locked gates,we spent all day up there. Problem rancho also owns all land up to new forest road. Also rancho Santa Cruz is ganging up with over ranchos to lock us out. That owner is Big time upset with racing bikes/trucks/ATVs.and near head ons."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I'm sure there have been others, the incident cited would seem to be especially egregious and I don't blame the locals one bit for being very upset. I strongly believe the group identified must make every effort to directly apologize to the ranchos and make restitution. He/they need to get involved and help find a solution to the problem they helped create. Surely someone from this forum knows the organizer and could help by taking the initiative and direct him to this and the ThumperTalk Baja thread so that he can know the impact of their actions. If he/they feel they have been unfairly called out, they should explain why.

I also think that all the business that have a financial interest in motorized offroad tourism in Baja need to get organized and involved because all stand to lose. This includes tour/rental outfits both 2 and 4 wheel, restaurants/bars and those providing overnight accommodations frequented by the offroad groups.

And we as individuals need to do our part, do more than handing out stickers. We need to demonstrate a respect for and interest in the local communities and if you are not prepared to do that then please stay home.

Bruce

[Edited on 8-13-2016 by mcnut]

bezzell - 8-12-2016 at 06:28 PM

Cameron Steele crew.
gee, shockeeer
does that helicopter come equipped with bolt-cutters !? :P

[Edited on 8-13-2016 by bezzell]

mtgoat666 - 8-12-2016 at 06:31 PM

It only takes one rotten apple to spoil the bunch.

Land owners should throw up gates.

Let the offroaders stay in glamis.

P.s. Cameron steele is a tour operator. He shoul be held to a higher standard, eh. I mean, really, he should know better than to chit in his own bed.

Quote: Originally posted by mcnut  
I feel a need to keep this thread active so here is a quote from another forum including a portion of an email report directly from ejido members and my plea following;

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Here is email I received Its a long one so for now,just a first part. Its translated.

"Personal encounters by land owners, ranchers and residents in Baja reporting the following incidents with motosport participants: 1 recent,last 10 days as of 07/30/2016 aggressive and dangerous encounter to prevent contact between helicopter and rancher in pick up truck. Attempting to hail down passing group of sport truck raptors,and jeep reportedly led by Cameron Steel. Report of cutting fences violating land owners. Closing of routes and destroying private property."

The rest of email is just more detail and how they will shut us down in this riding area. I will post more later. I did in fact go up there (but not to problems at the rancho) Looking for new route on North west side. On that side no route as old Baja route,any and all roads trails. Fenced and locked gates,we spent all day up there. Problem rancho also owns all land up to new forest road. Also rancho Santa Cruz is ganging up with over ranchos to lock us out. That owner is Big time upset with racing bikes/trucks/ATVs.and near head ons."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I'm sure there have been others, the incident cited would seem to be especially egregious and I don't blame the locals one bit for being very upset. I strongly believe the group identified must make every effort to directly apologize to the ranchos and make restitution. He/they need to get involved and help find a solution to the problem they helped create. Surely someone from this forum knows the organizer and could help by taking the initiative and direct him to this and the ThumperTalk Baja thread so that he can know the impact of their actions. If he/they feel they have been unfairly called out, they should explain why.

I also think that all the business that have a financial interest in motorized offroad tourism in Baja need to get organized and involved because all stand to lose. This includes tour/rental outfits both 2 and 4 wheel, restaurants/bars and those providing overnight accommodations frequented by the offroad groups.

And we as individuals need to do our part, do more than handing out stickers. We need to demonstrate a respect for and interest in the local communities and if you are not prepared to do that then please stay home.

Bruce

[Edited on 8-13-2016 by mcnut]

rts551 - 8-12-2016 at 06:42 PM

Excellent report McNut. The land owners need to be heard and cutting locks/taking down fences is ruining it for everyone. I hope all those that feel they have some "right" to roads through private property take note.

chuckie - 8-12-2016 at 07:04 PM

What I said...

BajaBreak - 8-12-2016 at 07:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
I have been riding and racing in Baja since 1956. First trip was on a 500 Norton single. Many of the activities and attitudes I see now will bring about the end of Off Road access in Baja. More and more gates, angry people, less respect. The handwriting is on the wall. A lot of good folks will never get to enjoy what some of us have. BUT, maybe it's time......


I was thinking about this post as I was looking for the latest one.

bajatrailrider, you seem to have the proper approach to keeping Baja riding alive and well. Unfortunately the legwork you do, and sharing of information online, may open up new routes for others, who may be more interested in the gopro videos they can brag about, than who they may be offending on their Baja runs.

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