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Messyco

SFandH - 8-26-2016 at 04:23 PM

Went to La Mision yesterday. I've never seen a beach so full of garbage. Absolutely disgusting.

What's with Mexicans and trash anyway?

A truck, 2 guys, and few hours would have cleaned it up.

Why not?

bajaguy - 8-26-2016 at 04:32 PM

It would be nice if the beach users cleaned up after themselves, but that is not going to happen.

Also that beach is in the disputed zone. Ensenada and Rosarito are battling it out to see who has jurisdiction

SFandH - 8-26-2016 at 04:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy

Also that beach is in the disputed zone. Ensenada and Rosarito are battling it out to see who has jurisdiction

I thought it was Ensenada's job to keep it clean. Who built the palapas (with no palm fronds nailed down)?

That huge dumpster at the south end packed with garbage is probably the biggest biohazard on the peninsula.

[Edited on 8-26-2016 by SFandH]

[Edited on 8-26-2016 by SFandH]

willardguy - 8-26-2016 at 05:01 PM

I think alot of mexicans just don't see trash just like they don't hear barking dogs. for most of the older generation there simply was nowhere to put trash, there was no dumps no trash collection, now they don't want you burning trash, it would be wonderful to go back to the days before everything was plastic and bottles were returnable...but thats not gonna happen, I think most are trying harder, its just gonna take time.
thats my feeling anyway

on edit I drove past that beach today at noon and there were cleanup crews tidying up!

[Edited on 8-27-2016 by willardguy]

bajaguy - 8-26-2016 at 05:06 PM

The municipality of Ensenada replaced several palapas that were destroyed by the high tides, don't know about the fronds

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

SFandH - 8-26-2016 at 05:08 PM

willardguy,

Yeah, but there's no excuse for what I saw at La Mision. I understand what you're saying but the folks in charge should know better.

I agree, Mexicans seem to have a high tolerance for litter, doesn't bother them. And I know I'm broad brushing but jeez, what I saw yesterday was an utter disaster. Hope they got it picked up today because another hot weekend starts tomorrow.

[Edited on 8-27-2016 by SFandH]

weebray - 8-26-2016 at 05:15 PM

I agree with Willard. It's not just Mexico. We've seen it in the Caribbean, Far east, South Pacific and on. Third world people just don't see the trash. They go to a beautiful beach and see the beach but not the trash. Instead of putting their trash in a compact toxic waste ball like we do in the states they spread the love all over the land like a fine patina of mankind. Things are changing as the younger generation becomes more educated but change comes slowly. We usually bring a BIG bag to the beach and try to leave with it full. Oh those pesky gringos and their self righteous acts of kindness.

SFandH - 8-26-2016 at 05:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by weebray

I agree with Willard. It's not just Mexico. We've seen it in the Caribbean, Far east, South Pacific and on. Third world people just don't see the trash.

I haven't travelled to places as poor or poorer than Mexico but I have watched videos of 3rd world countries and you're right, litter, trash, garbage seem to go hand in hand with poverty. It's mysterious, cleanliness is such a basic thing. Too expensive I guess.

KaceyJ - 8-26-2016 at 05:26 PM

Good play on words

In this case some good pictures and accurate labels of what you get for your money when you travel to a thurd world country and plaster them on appropriate websites would most likely do the most good since the mexican tourism board is more sensitive about money than health/environmental issues.

Barry A. - 8-26-2016 at 05:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by KaceyJ

Good play on words

In this case some good pictures and accurate labels of what you get for your money when you travel to a thurd world country and plaster them on appropriate websites would most likely do the most good since the mexican tourism board is more sensitive about money than health/environmental issues.

Bingo!!!!!

KurtG - 8-26-2016 at 06:28 PM

It is not just Mexico and third world countries. Right here on the Central Coast of California the little town of Avila Beach which I called home for many years has piles of trash on the beach after any busy summer or holiday weekend. The worst is Cave Landing (Pirates' Cove) which is often party central for the college crowd. Amount of trash on that lovely little beach is disgusting. Both these locations rival Mexican beaches after Semana Santa. We don't have anything to be self-righteous about in that regard.

Mulegena - 8-26-2016 at 06:33 PM

The high school and other volunteers in La Mision did a clean-up just today.

KaceyJ - 8-26-2016 at 07:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mulegena

The high school and other volunteers in La Mision did a clean-up just today.

That's great

Maybe the next generation will get it

pacificobob - 8-27-2016 at 07:19 AM

its a cultural thing. those of us over 60 remember the late 50s, in the USA, when the term "litter" came into popular use. gas stations began to give away free litter bags for cars. there were television PSAs to educate people about the unsavory habit of tossing trash out the window. in the space of a generation it became "incorrect" to inappropriately dispose of garbage. i see highway signs in mexico encouraging better habits. with a bit more effort , and education it could improve.

KurtG - 8-27-2016 at 08:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

its a cultural thing. those of us over 60 remember the late 50s, in the USA, when the term "litter" came into popular use. gas stations began to give away free litter bags for cars. there were television PSAs to educate people about the unsavory habit of tossing trash out the window. in the space of a generation it became "incorrect" to inappropriately dispose of garbage. i see highway signs in mexico encouraging better habits. with a bit more effort , and education it could improve.

I have seen those changes in Mulege in recent years and largely due to Blanca's work La Bocana may be the cleanest town in Baja! I think there is a lot less trash along Hwy 1 now than 30-35 years ago.

And I saw those changes you point out in the US which makes me more disturbed to see the increase in beach trash left behind. It has definitely increased in my area as I outlined in my earlier post.

SFandH - 8-27-2016 at 08:51 AM

I agree things are getting better in Baja and there is an education program. The issue with what I saw is La Mision is a heavily used public beach and it is clearly the responsibility of municipality in charge to haul out the trash. I was there on a Thursday, 4 days after the weekend when I suppose most of the trash originated. The wind had scattered the trash all over the beach after the seagulls had pulled the garbage from the cans. An offshore, Santa Ana wind would have blown it out into the ocean.

It's good that some volunteers cleaned up but that's not the solution.

So the problem is nuanced. There is individual responsibility that the education programs focus upon and there is government responsibility that has clearly failed in this case.

Too bad, La Mision is the biggest beach between TJ and Ensenada and probably has the cleanest water.

[Edited on 8-27-2016 by SFandH]

chuckie - 8-27-2016 at 09:05 AM

I worked for the Boulder Parks Dept....After Labor day weekend the Parks had so much trash DUMPED in them they were unusable...May be the same all over the world....

TMW - 8-27-2016 at 09:14 AM

A funny story about litter. Here in Bakersfield a lady wrote to the local newspaper that she was on her morning walk along the Panorama bluffs. As she approached a car there was a young couple who just finished changing the baby's diaper and dropped it at the curb and walked off. When she got to the car she noticed the sun roof was open so she picked up the diaper and dropped it on the front seat.

sancho - 8-27-2016 at 01:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

I think alot of mexicans just don't see trash just like they don't hear barking dogs

[Edited on 8-27-2016 by willardguy]

With you on that, it is viewed by some as part of the
natural lanndscape.
Some yrs back it
became socially unaceptable
in the US to litter. Sorta like smoking, Mex did adopt no smoking in restaurants. I think it is a process, I'm sure young Mex kids
learn in school about environmental awareness, it will take
time, but as mentioned trash cans are few

[Edited on 8-27-2016 by sancho]

BajaBlanca - 8-27-2016 at 08:27 PM

thanks for the kind words - La Bocana is much, much better but still has quite a ways to go! I too remember "don't be a litterbug." campaign when I was a kid.

well, as long as we are telling stories like the diaper one, I have one to share......and I am not proud that I "lost it", but it is what it is:

when I first started cleaning up here in town, it was before I started teaching and I had a lot of time on my hands. My neighbor and I went out time after time and day after day. I paid the garbage guys to work extra hours and clear away sofas...mattresses...fridges etc. in the afternoons.

One day, I saw a house not too far from ours, that had lots and lots of paper and plastic and was FULL of trash. I went into the store that was next to the house and asked if I could clean up (the yard was fenced but the trash was able to get through.). The girl said no, her mom would not like that. I figured the problem might be that I was a gringo, so I asked: can I have my neighbor Linda come? The girl went in the house and asked her mom. Came back and said NO.

After a second I asked: Can I pay you to clean it up? She went to mom, came back with NO as the response.

At this point I got upset. I had already been cleaning for hours and it was useless if the trash in their yard was going to fly right back where I had cleaned.

Well, I went home and got my camera. I went back to the yard and took a photo. and posted it at the local supermarket with a note that said: Is this what we want for La Bocana?

and I went home and told Les we were soon to be kicked out of La Bocana. It's OK, he said. It's OK.

The next day I went walking and lo and behold! The yard was spotless!!! I mean, it was spotless!

So I ran home and got my camera. As I was standing on the street, the mom comes out and yells WHAT NOW? WHAT IS THE PROBLEM NOW? Her hands were on her hips and I can just envision the scene as I write now.

Oh, I said. Your yard is so beautiful that I want to show everyone how nice it is.

and that ended it. Silvia and I started talking and became good friends. I did post the new photo and said something to the effect of LOOK HOW BEAUTIFUL! Turns out she sells plants and I became her biggest customer.

I still can't believe I did that. What was I thinking????

and want to know the best part of all? Years later, her nephew was to be in the first group of students sponsored to go to college! Julian, precisely the kid we all sent to northern California recently. He is her nephew.

and may I add that her yard has never ever been trashy again.

pacificobob - 8-28-2016 at 06:10 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca

thanks for the kind words - La Bocana is much, much better but still has quite a ways to go! I too remember "don't be a litterbug." campaign when I was a kid.

well, as long as we are telling stories like the diaper one, I have one to share......and I am not proud that I "lost it", but it is what it is:

when I first started cleaning up here in town, it was before I started teaching and I had a lot of time on my hands. My neighbor and I went out time after time and day after day. I paid the garbage guys to work extra hours and clear away sofas...mattresses...fridges etc. in the afternoons.

One day, I saw a house not too far from ours, that had lots and lots of paper and plastic and was FULL of trash. I went into the store that was next to the house and asked if I could clean up (the yard was fenced but the trash was able to get through.). The girl said no, her mom would not like that. I figured the problem might be that I was a gringo, so I asked: can I have my neighbor Linda come? The girl went in the house and asked her mom. Came back and said NO.

After a second I asked: Can I pay you to clean it up? She went to mom, came back with NO as the response.

At this point I got upset. I had already been cleaning for hours and it was useless if the trash in their yard was going to fly right back where I had cleaned.

Well, I went home and got my camera. I went back to the yard and took a photo. and posted it at the local supermarket with a note that said: Is this what we want for La Bocana?

and I went home and told Les we were soon to be kicked out of La Bocana. It's OK, he said. It's OK.

The next day I went walking and lo and behold! The yard was spotless!!! I mean, it was spotless!

So I ran home and got my camera. As I was standing on the street, the mom comes out and yells WHAT NOW? WHAT IS THE PROBLEM NOW? Her hands were on her hips and I can just envision the scene as I write now.

Oh, I said. Your yard is so beautiful that I want to show everyone how nice it is.

and that ended it. Silvia and I started talking and became good friends. I did post the new photo and said something to the effect of LOOK HOW BEAUTIFUL! Turns out she sells plants and I became her biggest customer.

I still can't believe I did that. What was I thinking????

and want to know the best part of all? Years later, her nephew was to be in the first group of students sponsored to go to college! Julian, precisely the kid we all sent to northern California recently. He is her nephew.

and may I add that her yard has never ever been trashy again.

good for you. a graceful solution.

Marc - 8-31-2016 at 06:12 AM

Many years ago (25 I think) I made a comment about the beach at Agua Verdi on the town side that was filthy with garbage. I was told not to complain to the town folk as they would be deeply offended.
If you want a real mess check out Santispac after holy week.

I remember cleaning beaches in S E Asia. We would light a huge bonfire with the garbage. The worst by far was nearby the larger settlements in New Guinea.

JoeJustJoe - 8-31-2016 at 09:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Went to La Mision yesterday. I've never seen a beach so full of garbage. Absolutely disgusting.

What's with Mexicans and trash anyway?

A truck, 2 guys, and few hours would have cleaned it up.

Why not?

What's with Mexicans and trash anyway?

S&H Green Stamps, that's such a racist or bigoted statement!

Can you show your outrage about the trash situation in La Mision, without making it seems that all Mexicans have some type of inherent character flaw of being dirty and trashing beaches?

It you ever have taken a trip to Niagara Falls, on the US and Canadian border, many visitors often comment how dirty and filthy the US side is compared to the Canadian side that is very beautiful, clean and upscale. However, I rarely hear comments asking what with Americans and trash anyway.

Barry A. - 8-31-2016 at 09:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

I would rephrase that to read, "what's with some humans and trash, anyway". We have made great progress in this Country (USA) on reducing the loose-trash problem, but it will never be completely solved, apparently. I have never understood why ANYBODY would trash their own nests and surroundings. I think that throwing out trash indiscriminately is kinda sick, actually. The best I can do is just pick-up after them, and I and my Family have done that all our lives. I find that challenging those that litter is counterproductive and just causes anger. Taking personal-responsibility is the ONLY answer, for everyone, in my opinion, and it is soooo easy to do.

TMW - 8-31-2016 at 10:09 AM

I was at a FastTrip (it's like a 7-11) store and two teenage girls were setting in a convertible near the from door. The driver opens her door and sets a large drink container down on the pavement and closes the door. I was walking by and seeing this I said what are you doing the trash can is right in front of you. I did it in a very stern way so she knew I was not happy. She got out and put the drink in the trash can. She may have thought I was the store manager.

I hate seeing trash on the ground or in the parking lot, especially when the trash can is near by.

As they say GOD must love stupid people since he made so many.

JoeJustJoe - 8-31-2016 at 10:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

I was at a FastTrip (it's like a 7-11) store and two teenage girls were setting in a convertible near the from door. The driver opens her door and sets a large drink container down on the pavement and closes the door. I was walking by and seeing this I said what are you doing the trash can is right in front of you. I did it in a very stern way so she knew I was not happy. She got out and put the drink in the trash can. She may have thought I was the store manager.

I hate seeing trash on the ground or in the parking lot, especially when the trash can is near by.

As they say GOD must love stupid people since he made so many.

TMW, that's very brave of you to be able to bully two teen girls to pick up their trash and put it in the trash can.

You must be a really tough guy.

imlost - 8-31-2016 at 11:28 AM

I think there's really not a lot of difference between Mexicans & Americans when it comes to littering. The US just has consequences for littering, and also more $ and policy/programs in place to clean it up. If left to our own habits, I doubt the US would look much different. People is people.

Barry A. - 8-31-2016 at 12:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by imlost

I think there's really not a lot of difference between Mexicans & Americans when it comes to littering. The US just has consequences for littering, and also more $ and policy/programs in place to clean it up. If left to our own habits, I doubt the US would look much different. People is people.

As a LE person for 30+ years, you have to see littering to implement those laws, and that seldom happens. Money and policy is a big factor, you're right.
As for your "people is people" comment as it relates to litter:---------I say "oink oink" :fire:

but it's a valid point.

BajaBreak - 9-1-2016 at 05:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

I had a neighbor years ago, who would grab all his trash, fast food, etc., and toss it out of his car on the driveway without a care, then walk into his home, even though there was a trash can 25ft away. Despite him being tattoed all over his face, I got along with him, talked shop, let him borrow tools a couple times, but I just cringed when I saw him litter. Then I had seen his dad outside smoking, and he proceeded to toss his lit cigarette against a parked car into the street. Nothing like a good mix of ignorance and indifference.

The thing about trash at the beaches, where wind and foragers are abundant, is that if it isn't contained, or removed in a timely manner, it turns into a huge dispersed mess in short order. Once a can fills up people many just dump stuff on the ground instead of having the common sense or courtesy to pack it up and dispose of it properly. Often not much different in the US or MX on this though.

Happy to hear about the students getting involved, because that is the best place to start. Hopefully they also realize it is not just for vanity, but the health of the many fauna that could die from it.

philodog - 9-5-2016 at 08:28 AM

I have a small arroyo behind my house which townsfolk use as a footpath and I clean it up occasionally but I feel bad if a local sees me doing it. My question is do you think locals are offended if a gringo picks up trash in a public area?

TMW - 9-5-2016 at 09:18 AM

No I don't think they would would be offended. It may get them to start thinking about trash and what not to do with it.

Barry A. - 9-5-2016 at 09:34 AM

I'm with TMW. I would not say a word to anybody (unless they ask) and just do it. I applaud you, just the way you are.

Bajahowodd - 9-5-2016 at 03:42 PM

Much less litter in BCS than BC. Any thoughts on that?

SFandH - 9-5-2016 at 04:03 PM

It's smaller?

Barry A. - 9-5-2016 at 04:15 PM

Perhaps more urban in the south? Also perhaps more sophisticated? ( I don't really have a clue)