BajaNomad - Oysters & Abalone?

Oysters & Abalone?

C205Driver - 9-22-2016 at 04:20 PM

. . .Anyplace in BOLA or Mulege where one can find these fresh???. ..TIA. . . Also any recent reports from Villa Vitta or Los Vientos in BOLA???

shari - 9-23-2016 at 07:44 AM

I suggest you arrange pick up oysters from Baja Gringo in San Quintin if you are traveling south. You will not find legal fresh abalone as the season is now closed. Even when they are in season, they are very difficult to buy...you have to get them from the fishing coops and they are super expensive...like $80 a pound..one or two abs.

C205Driver - 9-23-2016 at 02:09 PM

. . .Thanks Shari. . .Gonna go thru Mexicali & I won't pay that price either!!!

StuckSucks - 9-23-2016 at 04:33 PM

Ten years ago, we took a tour of Abulones Cultivados located at the north end of the Eréndira metroplex. Photos of same:

Plus, a pointless bonus photo:

David K - 9-23-2016 at 04:52 PM

Haven't reached that day yet in my trip report, but it was sad to see the La Lobera seafood cultivation abandoned.

Ron said it has to do with the intake pipe for fresh seawater getting thrashed by swells and not consistent water temperature, year-round.

I last toured La Lobera in June 2014 with Cameron's Trail of Mission group. Ron said it was later that year when they ended the operation.

Here are a few photos I have taken from 2006 at the project of La Lobera:

AKgringo - 9-23-2016 at 05:31 PM

What is the legal market size for abalone in Baja? I used to snorkel for red abalone on the northern CA coast in the 70's. They were plentiful then, with a four per day limit, and 7 inch keeping size.

Since bigger is better, we generally wound up with a limit in the 8 to 9 inch range, and once I got one that was 10 5/8 inches.

In 1970 I worked briefly on a construction site near Big Sur with a private access to a cove. On a minus tide, we were able to get a limit of black abalone (5 inch or better) without getting in the water!

Skipjack Joe - 9-23-2016 at 06:33 PM

You can get all the abalone you want below Shari's casa.

Big ones, too!

shari - 9-25-2016 at 09:27 AM

i hope you all realize that Skipjack is kidding...its it a very very serious federal crime and you will get 5 years for one single ab!

JC43 - 9-25-2016 at 09:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

You can get all the abalone you want below Shari's casa.

Big ones, too!

Well, how do I have to understand that info?
Is there a dealer to sell`em? Depending on season? It is not season right now.
My question is b/c it is highly illegal for any foreigners(!) to harvest any shellfish in Mexican waters - no matter what! Snorkeling for clams > illegal for U.S. citizens and all other foreigners - just as an example. And Mexicans will tell to the authorities about any action they discover - which is very understandable. It is stealing a part of their income.

Skipjack Joe - 9-25-2016 at 11:31 AM

It is indeed illegal to gather abalone in asuncion. Most of the income comes from lobster and abalone and it's a limited quantity. So they're pretty serious about nobody harvesting abs. Due to the warm waters recently the kelp beds are virtually gone and the abalone feed on them. The coop has gotten few to no abalone and that's hurt the locals a great deal.

Incidentally, harvesting pismo clams is also illegal but nobody pays much attention to that.

[Edited on 9-25-2016 by Skipjack Joe]

fishbuck - 9-25-2016 at 12:42 PM

I think it's illegal to take any shellfish anywhere at anytime unless you are Mexican.

fishbuck - 9-25-2016 at 01:10 PM

I once asked the coop if I could pay to freedive on their lobsters and harvest a couple just cause I like the fun of chasing the little rascals... no bueno...

willardguy - 9-25-2016 at 01:17 PM

yup no shellfish.....but I wouldn't feel bad taking a few choros or steamers!

shari - 9-25-2016 at 03:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

It is indeed illegal to gather abalone in asuncion. Most of the income comes from lobster and abalone and it's a limited quantity. So they're pretty serious about nobody harvesting abs. Due to the warm waters recently the kelp beds are virtually gone and the abalone feed on them. The coop has gotten few to no abalone and that's hurt the locals a great deal.
[Edited on 9-25-2016 by Skipjack Joe]

The local cooperativas in Asuncion did manage to fulfill thier quotas this season so this is not true that they have no abalone...they are a bit scarcer this year so the fishermen had to work longer and harder to harvest them but they did finish out the season.

town is bustling with the preparation for lobster season with everyone making traps this month....it opens Oct.1st.

BAJA.DESERT.RAT - 9-25-2016 at 06:50 PM

thanks for the info on the closure of ron hoffs ( I BELIEVE?) abalone project. i've been curious for years. too bad.

there was also one in the central california region. also, don't know if they're still in business but have seen abalone of various sizes in aquariums in some chinese restaurants in los angeles area. haven't noticed lately.

YUP ! was kinda pricey.

BIEN SALUD, DA RAT

Skipjack Joe - 9-25-2016 at 08:46 PM

There used to be abalone grown commercially at Pigeon Point, about 40 miles south of San Francisco. Perhaps you are thinking of them. They went out of business over 20 years ago. They supplied to some of the restaurants in the Bay Area.

Tomas Tierra - 9-26-2016 at 09:48 PM

There is a big ab farm in morro bay and I believe one in pismo.. They harvest at 3.5 inches

TT

BajaGringo - 9-27-2016 at 11:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by shari

I suggest you arrange pick up oysters from Baja Gringo in San Quintin if you are traveling south. You will not find legal fresh abalone as the season is now closed. Even when they are in season, they are very difficult to buy...you have to get them from the fishing coops and they are super expensive...like $80 a pound..one or two abs.

Thanks Shari. We have over 6 million oysters seeded in Bahia Falsa (and growing), made up of two types of oysters: Pacific Gigas and Kumamotos. We don't normally sell to the general public but I make exceptions for our friends. Get in touch with me via facebook so I can arrange for our crews to have some set aside and work out the logistics.

All of our abalone is currently out at San Martin Island as we are in the process of modifying our onshore systems and we are not selling abalone currently.

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

What is the legal market size for abalone in Baja?

Varies based on season, area and color of abalone but usually around 6" approximately. Farmed abalone has no season nor size limitations other than market requirements - typically in the 3.5 - 5 inch size.

Quote: Originally posted by BAJA.DESERT.RAT

thanks for the info on the closure of ron hoffs ( I BELIEVE?) abalone project. i've been curious for years. too bad.

there was also one in the central california region. also, don't know if they're still in business...

The farm DK referred to as shut down is not ours but down at La Lobera. Abalone farms all along the NE Pacific coastline have been struggling in recent years with rising coastal water temps and the seawater intake system design at La Lobera had additional problems with dealing with high surf conditions. I don't believe it has been in operation since at least late 2014.

We dealt with some of the same issues ourselves and why we moved all of our abalone out to San Martin Island where we also hold abalone permits in addition to the federal concession. There we can monitor and control the population which has continued to multiply and grow. Through our conservation and reseeding programs along with the fact we have not harvested any abalone in the last 5 years (in spite of having all the permits to do so) we are now seeing some very healthy colonies reestablishing themselves. We plan to leave most of those we reseeded around the island in place to help those colonies continue to grow and will only take specimens to be used for cycling broodstock here onshore.

We have modified our system to draw seawater in now from a shoreline well which eliminates the problem of dealing with high surf and has the added benefits of providing much cooler water (wine cellar effect) that is also prefiltered through the volcanic rock and sand. The water is so clean in fact, that our system discharge is actually improving the water quality of our coastal ecosystem out in front.

I am really excited now about the next several weeks as we expect to start bringing in over 150,000 new abalone seed to begin working on our joint abalone-keyhole limpet systems. As we finish out the rest of our tanks and air/water systems, that number will of course increase.

I believe the facility you refer to in the central California region would be The Abalone Farm in Cayucos. That farm was designed, built and directed by Frank Oakes, widely considered to be the world leading authority in aquaculture. He expanded production at Cayucos to reach 5 million abalone annually, at the time the largest abalone farm in the world.

The Abalone Farm - Cayucos, CA

The Abalone Farm is still in business but Frank today is CEO of Stellar Biotechnologies and our collaboration partner here at La Chorera. Last week he spoke at a conference in Ensenada, presenting an outline of our collaboration project and meeting with local academic and research contacts who will be providing some valuable assistance.

Stellar Biotechnologies - Port Hueneme

He and his wife Dorothy are returning to California today after having spent a few days down here with us. I feel so very fortunate to be able to work side by side with him and have them as our dear and close friends.

Some very, very interesting things in the pipeline. Stay tuned...

Udo - 9-27-2016 at 11:26 AM

Great going, Ron!

rts551 - 9-27-2016 at 11:39 AM

Excellent Ron. Your collaborative work with limpets should help cancer cure research for years to come.

AKgringo - 9-27-2016 at 12:14 PM

Ron, thanks for the additional information, I have always been curious about the prospects of aquaculture on the Pacific coast.

One additional question I have, is how long does it take a farmed abalone to reach the five to six inch size?

Thanks again!

BajaGringo - 9-27-2016 at 12:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Ron, thanks for the additional information, I have always been curious about the prospects of aquaculture on the Pacific coast.

One additional question I have, is how long does it take a farmed abalone to reach the five to six inch size?

Thanks again!

Abalone farmed their entire life in aquaculture tanks would likely take 6-10 years to reach that size range, based on color/type of abalone, feed and water temperature.

Our business model is to move the abalone juveniles back to the ocean where they will grow faster, be managed by our divers and continue to spawn, further enlarging the coastal colonies.

We will begin to harvest a percentage of those once thresholds have been reached and only in numbers that will ensure sustainability...

[Edited on 9-27-2016 by BajaGringo]

BajaGringo - 9-27-2016 at 05:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Udo

Great going, Ron!

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch

That is very cool, Ron.
Strong work.

Quote: Originally posted by rts551

Excellent Ron. Your collaborative work with limpets should help cancer cure research for years to come.

Thanks guys - thousands and thousands of hours of my time has been invested in this work in the last decade, to make this a viable project and at the same time help restore the lost abalone fisheries here that once were so predominant.

It remains a work in progress but we got a huge shot in the arm via our collaboration with Stellar Biotechnologies. I am excited about this on so many levels as today we are only the 2nd known aquaculture facility to successfully manage the giant keyhole limpet (Stellar was the very first in Port Hueneme). This amazing marine animal is holding so much promise via a key blood protein (KLH) that is achieving amazing results in treating cancer, alzheimers, lupus and other diseases. Many of its applications are in advanced clinical drug trials and the FDA recently classified KLH as a "breakthrough technology".

Stellar shares our philosophy of sustainability and have patented a non-lethal extraction method which will help us to maintain healthy populations of the giant keyhole limpets, a rare mollusk that is only found from central California to central Baja with the highest concentrations remaining having been observed here in our area around San Martin Island. So we won't have to kill off millions of keyhole limpets to provide the key component in a very promising immunotherapy.

Cancer vaccines? Could be a reality soon!
Stellar recently joined forces with Neovacs of France to provide KLH for testing vaccines against cancer, lupus, alzheimers, etc. They recently received approval from the FDA to begin drug trials in the US.

We are currently developing the processes to be able to grow the limpets together with abalone in our system and will become the very first site in Mexico where fisheries and biotechnology are working together.

Very, very exciting stuff. Long, long days right now but I pinch myself each and every morning as I am able to live in such a beautiful place with Cristina by my side, working in such a challenging and rewarding environment alongside some truly incredible, gifted people.

Life simply doesn't get any better IMHO. Wish us luck and keep your fingers crossed that this continues to move forward...

[Edited on 9-28-2016 by BajaGringo]

David K - 9-27-2016 at 05:57 PM

Thank you so much, Ron!!!

AKgringo - 9-27-2016 at 06:32 PM

Ron, there must be a warm water variation of the giant keyhole limpets. There is a rock island offshore and viewable from where the Manzanillo airport is today (state of Colima)

I am sure that we were finding abalone sized limpets (no abalone!) on some of our dives around that rock. That was in the winter of 64-65, and we were looking for lobsters and spear fishing, but Dave did shuck one limpet off the rocks that had to be six inches across.

BajaGringo - 9-27-2016 at 07:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Ron, there must be a warm water variation of the giant keyhole limpets. There is a rock island offshore and viewable from where the Manzanillo airport is today (state of Colima)

I am sure that we were finding abalone sized limpets (no abalone!) on some of our dives around that rock. That was in the winter of 64-65, and we were looking for lobsters and spear fishing, but Dave did shuck one limpet off the rocks that had to be six inches across.

Possible but they would be exceptional. The coastal water temps at Manzanillo often run over 30°C and that is simply too hot for the megathura crenulata. They begin to die at temps above 25°C.

Megathura Crenulata Temperature Study

The megathura all have a mantle that comes up over the top side of their shell with a distinctive "keyhole" shaped hole at the top. Look at these example photos below and compare with the animals you saw. The megathura all have that identical pattern design on their outer shell that gets covered by its mantle.

AKgringo - 9-27-2016 at 07:23 PM

It was a long time ago, but I don't remember the ones I saw having a mantle. It had a hard shell, almost like a flattened volcano, and larger than the one in your Hand!

Yes the water was warm, and clear. We snorkeled for hours without wet suits, and saw something new or different every time we went in the water!

BajaGringo - 9-27-2016 at 07:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

It was a long time ago, but I don't remember the ones I saw having a mantle. It had a hard shell, almost like a flattened volcano, and larger than the one in your Hand!

Yes the water was warm, and clear. We snorkeled for hours without wet suits, and saw something new or different every time we went in the water!

If it didn't have an outer mantle then it definitely wasn't a megathura crenulata. Sounds more like a lottia fenestrata, a much more commonly found limpet. We see them here as well and people often confuse them with the megathura.

They are cousins but not the same thing...

Skipjack Joe - 9-28-2016 at 06:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Maybe it wasn't a limpet at all, but an oyster.