BajaNomad

Nothing political, just an observation

Howard - 10-22-2016 at 03:23 PM

Here are some peso figures that are from the bank ATM, not just the computer.

Both figures include fees and came from withdrawals at Bancomer ATMs.

October 6th - 19.19 to the $

October 21st - 18.46 to the $

DENNIS - 10-22-2016 at 04:02 PM



The Peso has been bouncing around lately for a lot of reasons. It's workin' its way to 20 ta 1 soon enough. This has all been in the forecast.
Just sit back and watch the show. We ain't in Las Vegas.

Russ - 10-22-2016 at 04:05 PM

I read a shot paragraph somewhere, Maybe the Mexico City news. That when Trump fell in the polls the peso got stronger.

DENNIS - 10-22-2016 at 04:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Russ  
I read a shot paragraph somewhere, Maybe the Mexico City news. That when Trump fell in the polls the peso got stronger.



Well, Russ...the Peso, as well as all other currencies listed on the ForEx, are valued by the world.....not the Clanton gang. If the world thinks the Peso is less valuable for anything Trump says, the Peso has no strength of its own.
Not a pretty picture, is it.


Scooze the misspelling of your name, Russ. I ben drinkin a fue.




.

[Edited on 10-22-2016 by DENNIS]

mtgoat666 - 10-22-2016 at 04:30 PM

Trump says he wants to rip up nafta, so markets previously were devaluing peso at prospect of USA actions hurting Mexico trade with USA.
Now that the short-fingered vulgarian is headed toward being nothing more than an ugly footnote in history, peso is recovering.

Barry A. - 10-22-2016 at 05:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Trump says he wants to rip up nafta, so markets previously were devaluing peso at prospect of USA actions hurting Mexico trade with USA.
Now that the short-fingered vulgarian is headed toward being nothing more than an ugly footnote in history, peso is recovering.


Er Ah, not quite, Goat---------Trump wisely wants to "renegotiate" NAFTA, and if that is not successful then we will withdraw from it, I think is the way he put it. Don't count him out yet. I love it when lefties think that plain talking common sense is "vulgar"----shows how out-of-touch and elitist they are. LOL

DavidT - 10-22-2016 at 05:40 PM

Bernie Sanders: "The election is rigged."
Bernie's army (with apologies to Arnie's Army): " The election is rigged."

Donald Trump:"The election is rigged."
Bernie's army: " No it's not."

mtgoat666 - 10-22-2016 at 06:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Trump says he wants to rip up nafta, so markets previously were devaluing peso at prospect of USA actions hurting Mexico trade with USA.
Now that the short-fingered vulgarian is headed toward being nothing more than an ugly footnote in history, peso is recovering.


Er Ah, not quite, Goat---------Trump wisely wants to "renegotiate" NAFTA, and if that is not successful then we will withdraw from it, I think is the way he put it. Don't count him out yet. I love it when lefties think that plain talking common sense is "vulgar"----shows how out-of-touch and elitist they are. LOL


Barry, you stumped me. How are vulgarities like "grab them by the pussy" common sense?

Skipjack Joe - 10-22-2016 at 06:32 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Barry A. - 10-22-2016 at 07:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Trump says he wants to rip up nafta, so markets previously were devaluing peso at prospect of USA actions hurting Mexico trade with USA.
Now that the short-fingered vulgarian is headed toward being nothing more than an ugly footnote in history, peso is recovering.


Er Ah, not quite, Goat---------Trump wisely wants to "renegotiate" NAFTA, and if that is not successful then we will withdraw from it, I think is the way he put it. Don't count him out yet. I love it when lefties think that plain talking common sense is "vulgar"----shows how out-of-touch and elitist they are. LOL


Barry, you stumped me. How are vulgarities like "grab them by the pussy" common sense?


Once again, conflating statements, as Lefties always seem to do regularly. We were talking NAFTA and what Trump ACTUALLY said, not a private conversation between guys. IF you think that conversation in the motorhome was that unusual, then you live in a different universe than I do, and I can't help that. (out-of-touch, once more)

rts551 - 10-22-2016 at 07:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Trump says he wants to rip up nafta, so markets previously were devaluing peso at prospect of USA actions hurting Mexico trade with USA.
Now that the short-fingered vulgarian is headed toward being nothing more than an ugly footnote in history, peso is recovering.


Er Ah, not quite, Goat---------Trump wisely wants to "renegotiate" NAFTA, and if that is not successful then we will withdraw from it, I think is the way he put it. Don't count him out yet. I love it when lefties think that plain talking common sense is "vulgar"----shows how out-of-touch and elitist they are. LOL


Barry, you stumped me. How are vulgarities like "grab them by the pussy" common sense?


Once again, conflating statements, as Lefties always seem to do regularly. We were talking NAFTA and what Trump ACTUALLY said, not a private conversation between guys. IF you think that conversation in the motorhome was that unusual, then you live in a different universe than I do, and I can't help that. (out-of-touch, once more)

Barry. Please tell me you don't go around talking about grabbing women by their crotch. I live in a different universe.

mtgoat666 - 10-22-2016 at 07:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Trump says he wants to rip up nafta, so markets previously were devaluing peso at prospect of USA actions hurting Mexico trade with USA.
Now that the short-fingered vulgarian is headed toward being nothing more than an ugly footnote in history, peso is recovering.


Er Ah, not quite, Goat---------Trump wisely wants to "renegotiate" NAFTA, and if that is not successful then we will withdraw from it, I think is the way he put it. Don't count him out yet. I love it when lefties think that plain talking common sense is "vulgar"----shows how out-of-touch and elitist they are. LOL


Barry, you stumped me. How are vulgarities like "grab them by the pussy" common sense?


Once again, conflating statements, as Lefties always seem to do regularly. We were talking NAFTA and what Trump ACTUALLY said, not a private conversation between guys. IF you think that conversation in the motorhome was that unusual, then you live in a different universe than I do, and I can't help that. (out-of-touch, once more)



I must live in a diff universe. The guys I hang with are a bit less crude. And my work place conversations are certainly nothing like trump's caught on tape.

Barry A. - 10-22-2016 at 08:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Trump says he wants to rip up nafta, so markets previously were devaluing peso at prospect of USA actions hurting Mexico trade with USA.
Now that the short-fingered vulgarian is headed toward being nothing more than an ugly footnote in history, peso is recovering.


Er Ah, not quite, Goat---------Trump wisely wants to "renegotiate" NAFTA, and if that is not successful then we will withdraw from it, I think is the way he put it. Don't count him out yet. I love it when lefties think that plain talking common sense is "vulgar"----shows how out-of-touch and elitist they are. LOL


Barry, you stumped me. How are vulgarities like "grab them by the pussy" common sense?


Once again, conflating statements, as Lefties always seem to do regularly. We were talking NAFTA and what Trump ACTUALLY said, not a private conversation between guys. IF you think that conversation in the motorhome was that unusual, then you live in a different universe than I do, and I can't help that. (out-of-touch, once more)

Barry. Please tell me you don't go around talking about grabbing women by their crotch. I live in a different universe.


Where, oh WHERE, did I EVER say that I spoke like that????? You can be assured that I don't talk like that, but man I sure have heard worse hundreds of times when in groups of men, and even women, under certain circumstances. My point is that this is no big deal, however crude and obnoxious any talk like that is, and I think the horror being displayed by many is pure BS.

Howard - 10-22-2016 at 08:09 PM

Sure glad my observation didn't turn political.:lol:

BajaGringo - 10-22-2016 at 08:19 PM

Barry, look...

First of all, he wasn't in a locker room - he was about to go on camera for a television appearance. Second, I have never said nor have heard any friends of mine EVER talk like that. The few times in my life where I have heard a man talk like that I always considered the person to be a scum bag.

OK, thinking back I do recall a few very immature young boys in junior high school maybe say something along those lines and even then I considered it to be very crude. Imagine then my reaction to hearing it come out of the mouth of a man 59 years old at the time?

I don't think I am alone in that reaction Barry and what little I know about you Barry, I am quite surprised to hear you don't share those same values.

And for the record, I am NOT voting for Hillary Clinton; likely won't be voting at all this election cycle as there is not a SINGLE candidate that makes me want to drive up to the border to vote this election cycle.

A very sad state of affairs right now and to me, Trump is just a symptom of the problems we now find ourselves in...

Peace

Barry A. - 10-23-2016 at 09:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo  
Barry, look...

First of all, he wasn't in a locker room - he was about to go on camera for a television appearance. Second, I have never said nor have heard any friends of mine EVER talk like that. The few times in my life where I have heard a man talk like that I always considered the person to be a scum bag.

OK, thinking back I do recall a few very immature young boys in junior high school maybe say something along those lines and even then I considered it to be very crude. Imagine then my reaction to hearing it come out of the mouth of a man 59 years old at the time?

I don't think I am alone in that reaction Barry and what little I know about you Barry, I am quite surprised to hear you don't share those same values.

And for the record, I am NOT voting for Hillary Clinton; likely won't be voting at all this election cycle as there is not a SINGLE candidate that makes me want to drive up to the border to vote this election cycle.

A very sad state of affairs right now and to me, Trump is just a symptom of the problems we now find ourselves in...

Peace


As I said, I too was horrified---------until I thought about it for a while. Then it occurred to me all the movies on NET FLIX (etc.) and how many of them my wife and I simply turn off in the first few mins. because of the horrific content and foul language. The Press is making a mountain out of a mole hill, in the scheme of things, IMO.

To me the symptom that Donald Trump is reflecting is the incredible frustration and anger at a Government that has gone wild in it's movement to the left, attempting to solve perceived problems and spend money on things that are of no concern to me, and failing to solve problems that are long standing and REALLY serious!

BajaGringo - 10-23-2016 at 10:17 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  

As I said, I too was horrified---------until I thought about it for a while. Then it occurred to me all the movies on NET FLIX (etc.) and how many of them my wife and I simply turn off in the first few mins. because of the horrific content and foul language. The Press is making a mountain out of a mole hill, in the scheme of things, IMO.


Really? You often hear characters in movies on netflix say they walk up and "grab a woman by the pussy"? Are those characters you see on TV portraying stable, responsible persons with good judgement and values that one would hope to find in a candidate for president of the United States Barry? Or are those lines from a script portraying a character who is a scummy sociopath?

Trump wasn't reading from a script. Get my point amigo?
Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  

To me the symptom that Donald Trump is reflecting is the incredible frustration and anger at a Government that has gone wild in it's movement to the left, attempting to solve perceived problems and spend money on things that are of no concern to me, and failing to solve problems that are long standing and REALLY serious!


We agree that Trump is reflecting anger and frustration - most populist movements do that. It's an easy way to get a lot of attention and attract a percentage of voters; especially those who have been disconnected from the system and have little clue as to how how constitutional government legally works.

But the reality is that Trump is simply appealing to the frustrations in people and providing no real answers. He does like to tell the crowds what they want to hear:

"Building a wall all along the southern border and Mexico will pay for it."
Ain't going to happen

"Will bring back the coal industry"
Ain't going to happen

"Going to bring back all the jobs that went offshore"
Ain't going to happen

"Going to deport all the illegal immigrants"
Ain't going to happen

"Will make China alter their trade/currency policies"
Ain't going to happen

"Will cancel NAFTA"
Ain't going to happen

"Will bring back GREAT prosperity to America again"
Ain't going to happen


See a pattern Barry? The reality is that no matter who wins in November, the country is in for more of the same political mess that we have dealt with these past few decades but probably on a much larger scale. Already many countries around the world are laughing at the circus that is the US political system today.

Like I said, Trump is a symptom of the much bigger problem. The US ignored for several decades the coming of the global economy, naively believing that somehow the US could remain insulated from a growing global economy that would eventually turn into a global standard of living. Remember when I kept asking that question a decade back?

Industrialized nations make up less than 5% of the global population and will continue to be bled to feed the other 95%+ that is now growing in the new global reality. I saw it many years ago when I toured a Wal-Mart factory in China where they were manufacturing EVERYTHING including flat screen TV's under all the different brands you now see in their stores, all under licensing agreements. Or how did you think they could sell them so cheap?

Those jobs are never going to come back Barry until the tide of cost of living begins to even out. No trade agreement renegotiation, coal mine or mass expelling of illegal immigrants could possibly change that.

Quoting what previous administrations did in decades past to revive jobs/economy is meaningless today as the global economy has brought on a completely new set of rules on a totally different playing field. The longer the US refuses to accept that fact is only going to prolong the pain, delay any possible measures to soften the blow and will ultimately take the debt to a point where the US government and economy will cease to function.

All of that could happen literally in a matter of days or weeks should the rest of the planet make the decision finally to no longer recognize the US dollar as the global reserve currency. The weaker the US economy becomes, the more likely that is going to happen.

The US needs to accept its new role in the global economy and focus all its efforts on adjusting to the new global reality instead of non-stop wars we cannot afford in other parts of the world.

Unfortunately NO politicians from ANY party will say that truth today as it would be political suicide. But it doesn't make it any less of a fact and reality.

And now you understand my lack of motivation to participate in the current political circus going on in the current election cycle...



[Edited on 10-23-2016 by BajaGringo]

JoeJustJoe - 10-23-2016 at 10:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo  


And for the record, I am NOT voting for Hillary Clinton; likely won't be voting at all this election cycle as there is not a SINGLE candidate that makes me want to drive up to the border to vote this election cycle.

A very sad state of affairs right now and to me, Trump is just a symptom of the problems we now find ourselves in...

Peace


Your type of thinking isn't new, Monoloco, and others have been saying for years, there is not difference between the republicans and democrats, because they serve the same corporate masters.

I agree with this up to a certain point, but I also see glaring differences in a few areas, especially with social policy and social services areas.

Now if it was an election between Obama, and Romney, I would understand your position a lot better.

BajaGringo, nobody expects you to drive up to San Diego, to vote, and God knows, a lot of people can't stand Hillary Clinton, especially from the Conservative right-wing crowd, and many liberals don't like here either, for her moderate career politician ways.

But come on she is running against Trump!

If you're not a Trump fan, then if you ask me, you have to repudiate Trump in the harshest terms possible for running a bitter, divisive, and racist campaign. Trump seems to have borrowed Hitler's playbook, except Trump has no experience in government office and if Trump wins, the first thing that's going to take a big hit is the US stock market, which could put the whole country in a tailspin, and with Trump's temperament, if any foreign leader insults Trump, we may be looking at war!

If Trump wins, we will probably have another idiot in office, like Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte, who in the end will leave the people in the Philippines far worse off as he tries to cut ties with the US in favor of Russia, and China.

Frankly I don't understand people like you BajaGringo, acting like our political is in a sad state of affairs, which is true, but you seem to view both candidates as equally bad, and really that's really not the case.

Now I understand many feel Hillary Clinton, is a bad politician, but Trump is beyond the pale, and really has no business being President.

Again, why are you and your ilk, on the sidelines with a crazy megalomaniac like Trump running for the Presidency?





MMc - 10-23-2016 at 10:42 AM

Well said BajaGringo! The only thing you didn't mention is how Artificial Intelligence (AI) will change the world we know. 10 years from now our little world will be online and machines will be running machines. We are headed into the biggest change the world has ever known, the industrial revolution and the information revolution will seem small compared with what is coming. Most of America is watching the slight of hand.

del mar - 10-23-2016 at 10:54 AM

:lol: my first thought when this went sideways....this would never have been tolerated over at TalkBaja! hmmmmm......

rts551 - 10-23-2016 at 11:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by del mar  
:lol: my first thought when this went sideways....this would never have been tolerated over at TalkBaja! hmmmmm......



This forum is a different animal.

:lol:

rts551 - 10-23-2016 at 11:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Business creates jobs and working people pay taxes.

.


I will agree with this part. Working people pay taxes... Trump and his ilk do not.

Barry A. - 10-23-2016 at 11:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Business creates jobs and working people pay taxes.

.


I will agree with this part. Working people pay taxes... Trump and his ilk do not.


Like all of us who take on risk and invest in iffy projects and Stocks for a living, Trump pays taxes on PROFITS, but not on LOSSES (duh), and if there are more losses than profits, no Income taxes. There are hundreds of other kinds of taxes and fees that WE ALL PAY, including Trump. It is the way the tax system is designed, at least for now, and we all take advantage of that if we know how to. Trump wants to change that, to the peoples advantage. Read his platform on his website for more info.

BajaGringo - 10-23-2016 at 11:32 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  

If you're not a Trump fan, then if you ask me, you have to repudiate Trump in the harshest terms possible for running a bitter, divisive, and racist campaign.


I know and if I do decide to make the drive up and vote it will only be to cast an ANTI-Trump vote. I really do believe we are screwed no matter who wins but the thought of seeing the smirking face of that orange sociopath after election day is enough to make me hurl...
Quote: Originally posted by MMc  

The only thing you didn't mention is how Artificial Intelligence (AI) will change the world we know. 10 years from now our little world will be online and machines will be running machines. We are headed into the biggest change the world has ever known, the industrial revolution and the information revolution will seem small compared with what is coming. Most of America is watching the slight of hand.


That was part of what I was referring to when I said the country should have been investing in preparing to soften the blow of the coming globalization. We just have to accept that we can no longer expect to compete globally in the long term building cars, refrigerators and television sets.

It is fairly obvious today that if we hadn't spent countless TRILLIONS on ridiculous wars and instead invested in taking the lead in more advanced technology industries like green energy production / living / transportation and as you noted - robotics, the US economy today would look much different and be in a much stronger position. But today is too late I fear as that ship has already left port with many European countries and Asia now dominating those industries.

I used to own testing laboratories in California and that instrument market is completely dominated today by CHINESE manufactured robotics. Cheap and efficient with the very few US competitors coming in way over-priced and outperformed.

<sigh>
Quote: Originally posted by del mar  
:lol: my first thought when this went sideways....this would never have been tolerated over at TalkBaja! hmmmmm......


True - I would have asked that it be moved over to Mexico Politico.

Actually several threads on this subject have already been posted there. As I have no admin status here on Baja Nomad, I can only post in threads where Doug chooses to allow or move them.

Peace...

[Edited on 10-23-2016 by BajaGringo]

Donald at a Consistent Loss

MrBillM - 10-23-2016 at 11:45 AM

IF Trump's LONG history of business activities over many years have resulted in losses so great that he has avoided paying ANY Federal income taxes while living a leveraged and grossly lavish billionaire lifestyle...................

What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?

Barry A. - 10-23-2016 at 11:48 AM

BajaGringo says above:
"It is fairly obvious today that if we hadn't spent countless TRILLIONS on ridiculous wars and instead invested in taking the lead in more advanced technology industries like green energy production / living / transportation and as you noted - robotics, the US economy today would look much different and be in a much stronger position. But today is too late I fear as that ship has already left the port with many European countries and Asia now dominating those industries."

That is true. But it is also true that Britian's PM Neville Chamberlin felt the same way back in the pre-WW II days, postponed any major effort to stop Hitler, and almost lost his Country (and the Western world?) to Germany had not Churchill been elected and intervened. In the end, a very expensive mistake in many different ways. There are always valid different sides to any argument.

BajaGringo - 10-23-2016 at 11:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  

What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?


Exactly...
Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  

But it is also true that Britian's PM Neville Chamberlin felt the same way back in the pre-WW II days, postponed any major effort to stop Hitler, and almost lost his Country (and the Western world?) to Germany had not Churchill been elected and intervened. In the end, a very expensive mistake in many different ways. There are always valid different sides to any argument.


Yes and Osama Bin Laden/Al Qaeda were immediately identified as the culprits behind 9/11 and so we invade Iraq?

You sound just like Trump Barry, throwing out statements that sound good on the surface but really don't hold up to any serious analysis...

Barry A. - 10-23-2016 at 11:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
IF Trump's LONG history of business activities over many years have resulted in losses so great that he has avoided paying ANY Federal income taxes while living a leveraged and grossly lavish billionaire lifestyle...................

What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?



Mr.Bill I am really surprised at this as you normally stick to facts and do your homework. Trump "avoided" paying Income taxes for the years that he lost money big-time, but he has paid countless millions in Fed. Income Taxes for the years that he made his huge profits, and I am betting you know this?!?!?!?! There was no "corruption" involved, no "cheating", and it was all legal. If you know differently, then I would really like to know your sources.

mtgoat666 - 10-23-2016 at 12:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
IF Trump's LONG history of business activities over many years have resulted in losses so great that he has avoided paying ANY Federal income taxes while living a leveraged and grossly lavish billionaire lifestyle...................

What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?



Mr.Bill I am really surprised at this as you normally stick to facts and do your homework. Trump "avoided" paying Income taxes for the years that he lost money big-time, but he has paid countless millions in Fed. Income Taxes for the years that he made his huge profits, and I am betting you know this?!?!?!?! There was no "corruption" involved, no "cheating", and it was all legal. If you know differently, then I would really like to know your sources.


We suspect fraud (cheating), as he has refused to release his tax returns, unlike any pres candidate in recent memory.
I am confident that if he released his tax returns, journalists and citizen investigators would find the fraud that IRS had neither time or resources to find.
What is Donald trump hiding?????? :?::?::?::?:


[Edited on 10-23-2016 by mtgoat666]

Barry A. - 10-23-2016 at 12:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo  



Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  

But it is also true that Britian's PM Neville Chamberlin felt the same way back in the pre-WW II days, postponed any major effort to stop Hitler, and almost lost his Country (and the Western world?) to Germany had not Churchill been elected and intervened. In the end, a very expensive mistake in many different ways. There are always valid different sides to any argument.


Yes and Osama Bin Laden/Al Qaeda were immediately identified as the culprits behind 9/11 and so we invade Iraq?

You sound just like Trump Barry, throwing out statements that sound good on the surface but really don't hold up to any serious analysis...


I "sound like Trump" because I believe in the essence of what Trump is telling us. "Serious analysis" when coming from the Left has become subjective, biased, and often miss-leading these days, IMO. The left has their Agenda, as does the right.

In hind sight, I believe the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. Osama and Al Qaeda had very little to do with the decision to invade Iraq------much more complex than that, and again I believe you know that, Gringo.

BajaGringo - 10-23-2016 at 12:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  

Mr.Bill I am really surprised at this as you normally stick to facts and do your homework. Trump "avoided" paying Income taxes for the years that he lost money big-time, but he has paid countless millions in Fed. Income Taxes for the years that he made his huge profits, and I am betting you know this?!?!?!?! There was no "corruption" involved, no "cheating", and it was all legal. If you know differently, then I would really like to know your sources.


Barry, can you be so naive as to really believe that?

Billionaires have long used high paid lobbyists to help write the rules they benefit from, rules that average joes like you and I could never even dream of benefitting from. If you’re avoiding taxes by using tax laws that you helped to write, that doesn’t make you smart, it makes you an intricate part of the corrupt system we now live in.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-donations-alan-hev...

It totally blows my mind how people can continue to support and defend this man. You all have truly been drinking too much orange kool-Aid...

BajaGringo - 10-23-2016 at 12:14 PM

You Pay Taxes So Donald Trump Doesn't Have To

He says only a tax genius like him can make the tax code more fair. Oddly, that's not what his plan would do at all.

Capping off an extraordinary week of blunders and bumbles, Donald Trump learned Saturday night that The New York Times had obtained pages of his 1995 tax return showing that not only did he report a $916 million loss, but according to tax experts, that loss could have enabled him to avoid paying federal taxes for as many as 18 years, even as he made healthy profits after his failures in Atlantic City. For a man who just days earlier had responded "That makes me smart"—to the horror of his campaign advisers, no doubt—when Hillary Clinton accused him of refusing to show his tax returns because he may have paid no federal taxes at all, this was not exactly welcome news.

But Trump and his allies were ready to spin. Early Sunday morning, he tweeted, "I know our complex tax laws better than anyone who has ever run for president and am the only one who can fix them." If this argument sounds familiar, it's because he has said the same thing many times about legal forms of influence-buying and political corruption: as someone deeply engaged in that sordid activity, "I alone can fix it," in the words he used in his convention speech.

But in both cases, the truth is that Trump has neither any ideas about how to actually fix it, nor any evident intention to do so. If you're unacquainted with Trump's plan to change the system to eliminate political corruption, it's because he doesn't have one. Similarly, he doesn't have a plan to make the tax system more fair to ordinary people who don't have the benefit of accountants and lawyers who can bend the system to his will. Indeed, the guiding principle of his tax plan, such as it is, is that wealthy people like him should pay even less than they do now.

But let's take a moment to consider Trump's claim that only someone with his detailed and nuanced knowledge of the tax code could possibly address its problems. For its story, the Times tracked down Trump's accountant at the time, one Jack Mitnick, who verified that the documents were legitimate. He also said that Trump showed little interest in how tax law worked; when he and his first wife Ivana came to sign documents, Ivana would ask more questions than her husband. "But if Mr. Trump lacked a sophisticated understanding of the tax code, and if he rarely showed any interest in the details behind various tax strategies, Mr. Mitnick said he clearly grasped the critical role taxes would play in helping him build wealth. 'He knew we could use the tax code to protect him,' Mr. Mitnick said."

And how. As the Prospect's Justin Miller recently reported, the real estate industry has been extraordinarily successful in stocking the tax code with enough loopholes and deductions to enable developers like Trump to amass huge fortunes without the inconvenience of paying too much in taxes. And as tax law expert Edward McCaffrey pointed out, we shouldn't assume that the $916 million loss was Trump's own money; he could have lost other people's money, as he is fond of saying he's adept at doing, then used the losses to lower his own tax bill.

Trump's allies were plainly instructed to characterize the story of the lost near-billion and subsequent tax avoidance as evidence only of Trump's awe-inspiring intellect. "The reality is he's a genius," said Rudy Giuliani on Meet the Press, making clear that what Einstein was to theoretical physics, Trump is to tax law. Giuliani also appeared on This Week to repeat the hosanna to Trump's glory; asked by George Stephanopoulos to respond to the story, he said, "My response is he's a genius." Completing a glorious bootlicking trifecta, Rudy went on CNN's State of the Union to say, "The man is a genius. ... It shows what a genius he is." Over on Fox News Sunday, there was by sheer coincidence a similar chorus being sung. "There's no one who's shown more genius in their way to maneuver about the tax code as he rightfully used the laws to do that," said Chris Christie. "And the genius that Donald Trump has been" means that "there's no one who's better suited to change these laws than someone like him."

You might want to sit down before you hear the shocking news that Donald Trump's tax plan does not actually reorient the American tax code to make it less generous to the wealthyYou might want to sit down before you hear the shocking news that Donald Trump's tax plan does not actually reorient the American tax code to make it less generous to the wealthy and more so to those unable to experience the daily wonder of crapping in a gold-plated toilet. According to Citizens for Tax Justice, the latest iteration of Trump's tax plan would give an average benefit of $200 to people in the bottom 20 percent of the income scale, and $818 to those in the middle 20 percent. Which is nice, but it doesn't quite compare to the average benefit of $88,410 that those in the top 1 percent would get. Among other things Trump would eliminate the inheritance tax entirely (a big relief for Donny Jr., Ivanka, and Eric, though if I were Tiffany I wouldn't be counting any chickens), and has suggested that he wants to allow individuals who get their income from "pass-through" entities (like his company) to pay tax at a new 15 percent corporate rate, an absolutely spectacular cut for wealthy people who now pay at the top marginal rate of 39.6 percent.

In fairness, we don't know for sure if he really wants this pass-through provision, because he says contradictory things about it depending on whom he's talking to. But the truth is that the details of Trump's tax plan are essentially irrelevant. If he's elected, he will almost certainly bring a Republican Congress with him, and it will be their tax plan, not his, that they will pass and he will sign.

And the plan released by Paul Ryan may be even more generous to the wealthy than Trump's. Ryan wants to eliminate the estate tax, cut rates on both wage income and investment income, and slash corporate rates, too. In fact, while the CTJ's analysis says that 44 percent of the benefits of Trump's tax plan go the top 1 percent, fully 60 percent of the benefits of Ryan's plan are scooped up by those patriotic job creators; they get an average benefit of $137,780, compared to $753 for those in middle and $107 for those at the bottom.

Donald Trump is hardly the only billionaire (if he indeed is one) whose accountants can get them out of paying taxes. But in order to believe that he has even the barest intention of changing the tax system to make that harder for people like him to do, you'd have to ignore what his actual tax plan is, and those of his congressional allies. And you'd have to ignore pretty much everything he's said and done during this campaign. But hey, the guy is a genius—maybe he's playing this at a level so complex none of us mere mortals can understand.

Barry A. - 10-23-2016 at 12:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  
Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
IF Trump's LONG history of business activities over many years have resulted in losses so great that he has avoided paying ANY Federal income taxes while living a leveraged and grossly lavish billionaire lifestyle...................

What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?



Mr.Bill I am really surprised at this as you normally stick to facts and do your homework. Trump "avoided" paying Income taxes for the years that he lost money big-time, but he has paid countless millions in Fed. Income Taxes for the years that he made his huge profits, and I am betting you know this?!?!?!?! There was no "corruption" involved, no "cheating", and it was all legal. If you know differently, then I would really like to know your sources.


We suspect fraud (cheating), as he has refused to release his tax returns, unlike any pres candidate in recent memory.
I am confident that if he released his tax returns, journalists and citizen investigators would find the fraud that IRS had neither time or resources to find.
What is Donald trump hiding?????? :?::?::?::?:


[Edited on 10-23-2016 by mtgoat666]


My educated guess as to "what is he hiding" are incredibly complicated Tax Returns that can be interpreted and miss-interpreted in many different ways that would open up a can-of-worms, regardless of the fact that they are really totally legit. As you know, you can have your taxes done by 5 different Accountants and can come up with 5 different "taxes owed" in the end. The Tax system is a nightmare, and very few understand it completely. I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!!! The avoidance of accusations and nit-pick questions by the Media and other's is worth the criticism of not releasing the forms, he must feel. The IRS uses their "limited resources" to concentrate on high-rollers like Trump----thus his many audits. This is exactly why Trump wants to simplify the Federal Tax Code which will benefit EVERYBODY. (except the Accountants)

Peso's in Anchorage

AKgringo - 10-23-2016 at 12:28 PM

Wells Fargo will only give me 17.40 today, and they don't care who I am voting for. Apparently, peso's increase in value further north!

Now you guys can get back to the cat fight.

Lee - 10-23-2016 at 12:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch  
I sense..... can of worms.... opened.

So many places to go vulgar and common sense thrown into the mix.
:cool:


Some folks here are not up to speed.

Doesn't really matter if you want trump to win or not. He is losing the race. Clinton will be voted in. Call it rigged. Doesn't matter. Repubs will lose majority as well. Repubs should have pulled the plug on trump early on. Blame them for Clinton winning.

Not too late for the losers here to get with the winning team.

JoeJustJoe - 10-23-2016 at 12:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  


My educated guess as to "what is he hiding" are incredibly complicated Tax Returns that can be interpreted and miss-interpreted in many different ways that would open up a can-of-worms, regardless of the fact that they are really totally legit. As you know, you can have your taxes done by 5 different Accountants and can come up with 5 different "taxes owed" in the end. The Tax system is a nightmare, and very few understand it completely. I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!!! The avoidance of accusations and nit-pick questions by the Media and other's is worth the criticism of not releasing the forms, he must feel. The IRS uses their "limited resources" to concentrate on high-rollers like Trump----thus his many audits. This is exactly why Trump wants to simplify the Federal Tax Code which will benefit EVERYBODY. (except the Accountants)


Barry wrote: ""I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!"

Really?

You're retired, so why do you need complicated tax returns that costs thousands of dollars each year?

Are you that rich Barry?

Remember, what I told you before, don't make it about yourself, and you'll be OK.

I'm sure Trump, legally took those millions in tax deductions, because back then the rules, especially for real estate tycoons were very favorable, but it's still not right or fair, when very few people could forward their losses on their tax returns for that many years.

Trump, won't release his tax returns, because of the sure embarrassment in a number of different ways.

BTW Barry, it has pretty much been determined in the polls that Trump is going to lose, because he is trailing in most of the battleground states. So unless Trump pulls off a miracle in the next few weeks, and that's doubtful. It looks like he is going down in defeat.

Barry A. - 10-23-2016 at 01:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  
Quote: Originally posted by Barry A.  


My educated guess as to "what is he hiding" are incredibly complicated Tax Returns that can be interpreted and miss-interpreted in many different ways that would open up a can-of-worms, regardless of the fact that they are really totally legit. As you know, you can have your taxes done by 5 different Accountants and can come up with 5 different "taxes owed" in the end. The Tax system is a nightmare, and very few understand it completely. I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!!! The avoidance of accusations and nit-pick questions by the Media and other's is worth the criticism of not releasing the forms, he must feel. The IRS uses their "limited resources" to concentrate on high-rollers like Trump----thus his many audits. This is exactly why Trump wants to simplify the Federal Tax Code which will benefit EVERYBODY. (except the Accountants)


Barry wrote: ""I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!"

Really?

You're retired, so why do you need complicated tax returns that costs thousands of dollars each year?

Are you that rich Barry?

Remember, what I told you before, don't make it about yourself, and you'll be OK.

I'm sure Trump, legally took those millions in tax deductions, because back then the rules, especially for real estate tycoons were very favorable, but it's still not right or fair, when very few people could forward their losses on their tax returns for that many years.

Trump, won't release his tax returns, because of the sure embarrassment in a number of different ways.

BTW Barry, it has pretty much been determined in the polls that Trump is going to lose, because he is trailing in most of the battleground states. So unless Trump pulls off a miracle in the next few weeks, and that's doubtful. It looks like he is going down in defeat.



"Rich"?--- compared to what? My wife and I have been investing since I was 30 which was 48 years ago. Many of our investments are in Partnerships and other complicated instruments, so taxes are complicated and I have no desire to get into the mud with that stuff, so I hire it done, and I have to pay for that. We suffered enough realized losses in 2009 that for 4 years after we paid no Fed. Income taxes, but in the good years we paid big-time Fed. taxes. We have had lots of good years, and some bad years.

The rest of what you say here I pretty much agree with. It will be very interesting to see what happens on Nov. 8.