BajaNomad

ejido property? vs titled property?

BajaBlanca - 12-4-2017 at 09:55 AM

What is the difference between owning ejido property and titled property?

Thanks.

BajaBlanca - 12-4-2017 at 10:09 AM

I found this from another thread:

From Wikipedia:

In Mexican system of government, an ejido (Spanish pronunciation: [eˈxi�o], from Latin exitum) is an area of communal land used for agriculture, on which community members individually farm designated parcels and collectively maintain communal holdings. Ejidos are registered with Mexico's National Agrarian Registry (Registro Agrario Nacional). The system of ejidos was based on an understanding of the Aztec calpulli and the medieval Spanish ejido.
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During the colonial era and the 19th Century Liberal La Reforma and expansion of haciendas in the late 19th Century under Porfirio D�az, landlessness was a serious issue in Mexico. It was one of the core problems that contributed to the outbreak of the Mexican Revolution, notably Morelos where Emiliano Zapata led revolutionary peasants seeking return of their lands. Tierra y libertad (land and liberty) was one of the slogans of the Revolution. Distribution of large amounts of land did not begin until L�zaro C�rdenas became president in 1934. The ejido system was introduced as an important component of the agrarian land reform in Mexico.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejido

shari - 12-4-2017 at 10:23 AM

Ejido land usually surrounds the villages themselves that have been incorporated into the Municipality.

Some people choose ejido property over municipal as there are no property taxes or municipal regulations like building permits etc as it is outside the village boundaries. But it is best to have an ejido members name on the title instead of the general ejido's name. It is less expensive to transfer the title and you can even get a fideicomiso on it.

AKgringo - 12-4-2017 at 10:49 AM

Does that mean that a person is using land with the permission of the Ejido, or a member?

If so, can that permission be revoked by a future Ejido decision, or an heir of the member?

BajaTed - 12-4-2017 at 12:23 PM

The surveying of Ejido land and the documentation of those surveys is something never done very well for the specific reason of allowing the lines to be redrawn for a price, by and for the whim of the future Ejido leaders.
This is an element of corruption baked into the system that us Gabachos don't grasp very well. Thus don't invest more than you can walk away from.
pee off the Ejido and its all toast, same bad outcome as an indian land lease along the Colorado river in Cali when the CRIT get peeed at you, seen the same story and outcome both sides of the border.

mtgoat666 - 12-4-2017 at 12:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed  
The surveying of Ejido land and the documentation of those surveys is something never done very well for the specific reason of allowing the lines to be redrawn for a price, by and for the whim of the future Ejido leaders.
This is an element of corruption baked into the system that us Gabachos don't grasp very well. Thus don't invest more than you can walk away from.
pee off the Ejido and its all toast, same bad outcome as an indian land lease along the Colorado river in Cali when the CRIT get peeed at you, seen the same story and outcome both sides of the border.



Yes, most ejido land can have title problems. I heard there was a federal process where ejido lands were getting reviewed and “clarified” titles, an effort coming out of DF. But I think roll out is slow and not many ejidos in Baja have done it yet?

BajaBlanca - 12-4-2017 at 06:24 PM

Interestingly enough, no one, titled or ejido titled pays taxes in La Bocana. Perhaps we are unincorporated? I really don't know.

We do pay taxes on our lots in Punta Abreojos which is only 11 miles south of us.

rts551 - 12-4-2017 at 06:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
Interestingly enough, no one, titled or ejido titled pays taxes in La Bocana. Perhaps we are unincorporated? I really don't know.

We do pay taxes on our lots in Punta Abreojos which is only 11 miles south of us.


That is because Abreojos is a city and La Bocana is not.

shari - 12-4-2017 at 07:12 PM

a few years back there was a new law that ejidos could split up the land and give members individual titles in peoples names which was done around Asuncion which seems to be less problematic. It is my understanding they had like a lottery...picked lot numbers at random out of a hat to see who got what lot. Interesting that the ejido directors were so lucky to pick the good lots!
The process did take a long time but is now in place so it is supposed to be safer if you buy it and you can get something called Irrevocable Power of Attorney drawn up by a notary so the ejido member gives up his right to the lot and signs it over to you.

Check your title Blanca to see if it has someone's name on it or the name of the Ejido. Life is a crap shoot anyway.

wilderone - 12-5-2017 at 08:52 AM

"...lines to be redrawn for a price, by and for the whim of the future Ejido leaders. This is an element of corruption baked into the system...."
It all depends on the ejido and the council that governs it. Since they are self-governing, I would imagine there are continual decisions made for the benefit of individuals and the ejido as well that are not founded on the four corners of the law. But I wouldn't call it corruption. I almost bought a lot in Mata Ortiz (for $300!). I was told that the Council would meet and vote on whether or not to approve the sale to a gringa (others have been approved there) -- not automatically an agreement only between seller/buyer. I don't think ejido land sales are handled the same way in every ejido.

BajaBlanca - 12-5-2017 at 09:27 AM

Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting read for sure! Learning a lot.

Many years ago we met with an attorney in La Paz who had been to La Bocana and had talked to the ejido about all the lots and titling them. Exactly as Shari mentioned, lots were drawn on a lottery system and some got hundreds of lots.

The problem is the expense to title those hundreds of lots that some got. It is prohibitive and therein lies the issue according to him.

ncampion - 12-5-2017 at 10:30 AM

Here’s our story and I’m sticking to it. We purchased an ocean front property near Loreto in 2005 from an ejido member who had obtained the property through the “subdivide and lottery” process. He had a “Certificado Parcelero” which is an official government document that shows him as the ejidaterio who has the right to “privatize” his ejido lot. The Certificado is relatively inexpensive to obtain so that’s where they usually stop. When we bought the lot we got him (and his spouse) to go to the Notario to sign a Power of Attorney stating that he would work with us on obtaining a “Titilo” (title) and then transfer it to us for no additional payment. Getting the Title took another two years and cost a few thousand dollars with fees and expenses etc. but it finally happened and then, as stipulated, he signed over the Title to our Fideicomiso. Some of this involved meetings with the ejido and votes by the majority to allow him to sell the property. Part of the process is to allow any other ejidaterio to have the first right to buy the property at the agreed price (or higher). They all have to vote that no one wants to buy it. Quite a process, not for the faint of heart. After all that happened, we then had to go through the process with SEMERNAT to get approval to build on the property – that’s a whole other story. So bottom line is that you can purchase ejido property but you must be informed and jump through all the legal hoops to do it.

Bob and Susan - 12-5-2017 at 01:07 PM

here is some good info from 2008...

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=35855#pid3762...

BajaBlanca - 12-5-2017 at 06:37 PM

ncampion - thanks for sharing. It can be done!

rts551 - 12-5-2017 at 06:45 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting read for sure! Learning a lot.

Many years ago we met with an attorney in La Paz who had been to La Bocana and had talked to the ejido about all the lots and titling them. Exactly as Shari mentioned, lots were drawn on a lottery system and some got hundreds of lots.

The problem is the expense to title those hundreds of lots that some got. It is prohibitive and therein lies the issue according to him.



They did the same and have the same problem with he ejido land between Abreojos and Campo Rene.

BajaBlanca - 12-5-2017 at 06:48 PM

boy oh boy oh boy

read the 2008 thread and there are so many different forms to file

DianaT - 12-5-2017 at 08:42 PM

Blanca,

This is a good place to look on facebook. And I know people who Rafael has helped. He really understands and knows the law well. In that area I know people who bought ejido property and were promised titles that have never come because they are tied up in Mexico City. The real estate law down there is complicated and he can help

https://www.facebook.com/groups/534958289989059/

The link does not seem to be working. On facebook, look for Baja Legal Advice --- site for Rafael Solorzano.





[Edited on 12-6-2017 by DianaT]

BajaTed - 12-6-2017 at 10:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
Interestingly enough, no one, titled or ejido titled pays taxes in La Bocana. Perhaps we are unincorporated? I really don't know.

We do pay taxes on our lots in Punta Abreojos which is only 11 miles south of us.


That is because Abreojos is a city and La Bocana is not.


Taxes and death are the same everywhere.
Our home in Bajamar is 20+ miles from Ensenada, but that is the entity who gets our annual property taxes. That is one potent local Ejido if they don't pay taxes, was there a nearby Trump development?:lol:;)

ncampion - 12-6-2017 at 12:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
ncampion - thanks for sharing. It can be done!


Definitely can be done. I don't think you need an attorney but can't hurt. Best to have someone who is familiar with all the ins and outs of the process and who you can trust to get all the I's dotted etc. We have a friend (Gringa) who did it herself but she is fluent in Spanish and a Real Estate broker in the US and willing to do a lot of footwork and paperwork. The ejidaterios are more than happy to take your money and turn over the Certificado, but you have to be sure they will stick around to take care of all the rest of the process to get the Titlo.