BajaNomad - Mandatory return of FMM commencing?

Hook, could it be that his previous one was still valid (active) and he didn't know it was still good when he went for a new one?
I can see them not issuing one if they think he is trying to have two.

I really cant say. But that could be possible. It would indicate a certain level of computerization, I suppose.

It was posted on a board that is notorious for the moderator altering information and deleting posts he feels are detrimental to the "image" of our town, even if it is legitimate information.

Oh, BTW, he's trying to sell his house.

So, I havent posted there in several years and dont visit it, because of this. This was not direct knowledge that I can follow up on.

Hook - 3-22-2019 at 08:57 PM

People who frequent that board tell me that several have asked the original poster about the length of the FMM and the OP has not replied. The post does reference the denial occurring "Sunday morning", so presumably it's been up for at least 3-4 days with no response to the question of length.

David K - 3-23-2019 at 07:55 AM

Thanks...
Yes on the computerization... they scan your passport coming and going (if you turn the FMM back in).

Marc - 3-23-2019 at 09:08 AM

A few years back crossing into Sonora at Lukeville my Bud mentioned that he still had his expired FMM at home. A supervisor standing behind the gal (drop dead beautiful) who was processing us said "you are entering Mexico illegally" and just shrugged and walked off. She issued us both our FMM. I used to mail back my expired but was informed that is no longer necessary.

Alm - 3-23-2019 at 12:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by sancho

I
don't see the logic of requiring the return on one over
the other,

I "guess" they worry less about paid FMM because it was paid, while 7-day freebie doesn't bring money into govt coffers.

boe4fun - 3-23-2019 at 02:12 PM

I always keep my FMM inside my passport along with my Sentri card. That way, if requested, I can just turn it in when applying for a new one.

Alm - 3-23-2019 at 03:02 PM

You should turn it in when you leave the country, not when you apply for a new one.

But then, it is not clear whether one should turn paid FMM in at all. Or - turn it in at TJ crossing.

JoeJustJoe - 3-23-2019 at 03:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Alm

You should turn it in when you leave the country, not when you apply for a new one.

But then, it is not clear whether one should turn paid FMM in at all. Or - turn it in at TJ crossing.

Yeah exactly, where would you turn it in?

I bet less that 1 percent of American tourist which are probably mostly Mexican-Americans, ever bother to return the FMM if they crosses the border by car or foot.

I know half the time I don't even bother to get a FMM for a short border trip and for damn sure I'm not going to waste my time trying to turn in a FMM when Mexico has no known procedures set up to turn in your FMM when traveling by car or foot. Now if Im on a commerical flight I will follow the instructions and procedures in place.

However if you're going to live in fear. I think boefun has a good idea, and if it ever becomes a problem, you can always pull out your old FMM.

willardguy - 3-23-2019 at 03:33 PM

couple weeks ago same agent thats been there for years, no bank, no computer, but the almighty stamp and thirty bucks in his pocket.....I sure the heck won't be returning that one!

sancho - 3-23-2019 at 06:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by boe4fun

I always keep my FMM inside my passport along with my Sentri card. That way, if requested, I can just turn it in when applying for a new one.

Was a guy crossing into Mex at a Texas POE, had his expired 6 mo.
fmm which fell out of his Passport, Mex Imm officer was
going to charge him $5 dlls. a day for 100 days of expiration,
talked him down to $100 but he did pay. A friend who flies
TJ to the Cape, buys a 6 mo. fmm at the TJ airport, Mex
apparently doesn't collect them coming back due to the
fact it is a domestic flight. So he has a few on file. Have wondered about Imm
just pocketing the $, but for the last few times they definitely
enter computer info. Was a humorous post a while back on
a San Felipe site, a car with 3 tourists claimed they were 'hassled'
attempting to return fmm's while going back to Calexico
the person they were trying to return their fmm's to, told
them they have to return to Mex to do that, I then realized
they were trying to hand them to US Custom officers. Was
easier back in the day free fmt's, get blank one's from AAA

[Edited on 3-24-2019 by sancho]

mtgoat666 - 3-23-2019 at 07:31 PM

:!:

Ignorantia juris non excusat!
:light:

David K - 3-23-2019 at 07:39 PM

Sure goat, but whose law? Seems different officers have different views of the law. Maybe if the law they were enforcing was standardized in a book or Internet so it was the same at each Mexican port of entry nobody would be ignorant of it?

mtgoat666 - 3-23-2019 at 07:49 PM

Sure goat, but whose law? Seems different officers have different views of the law. Maybe if the law they were enforcing was standardized in a book or Internet so it was the same at each Mexican port of entry nobody would be ignorant of it?

So, you excuse is “it’s too hard!”

Like I said, Ignorantia juris non excusat!

Quit making excuses! You claim to be a travel guide writer for baja, so do you job! Do the research, and point us to the law, and tell us the law! No more excuses!

sancho - 3-24-2019 at 09:58 AM

Mex Immigration Law? Does such a definitive thing exist?
I don't think so. I've
been told on several occasions, the 6 mo.
does not need to be returned. Whatever suits them at
the time are the regs. Even the other Mex resident classifications for
Gringos are open to interruptation

David K - 3-24-2019 at 10:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

No, I had no excuse or said it was too hard.
Is this really to hard for you to understand?
If there are no written/published/online laws about tourist border crossing rules, how can anyone be ignorant? Every time we talk to an officer of the Mexican government (INM department) we might hear the same as before or we might hear something different.

I have taken the time to post each time I talked with INM as to what they say are the rules (on that day, lol). Have you ever posted a trip report goat or is all you do take from Nomad without giving anything of value back?

Posting what the INM officers tell us each is pretty valuable if you want to do your best to honor Mexico's rules in regards to border crossing.
That's about the closest we can be to the current Baja version of a federal law.

The last time I asked them questions (Tecate August 2018) when I bought a 6 month FMM Tourist card, it was good for multiple trips up to the expiration stamped date (or one trip up to 180 days)... It did NOT need to be returned on your final exit (Because who knows if you might return before the 180 days that you paid for?). The FREE 7 Day FMM "should be returned" (he said) but went on to add, if it isn't 'that is okay, too'.

caj13 - 3-24-2019 at 10:48 AM

I can tell you that I have asked the issueing agent for a 7 day FMM where i should turn it in. In both cases, i was told not nessisary, one guy told me to just throw it in the trash. this would have been april 2017, and dec 2018.

That old 2017 FMM came in handy when I flew in to SJD. On the way back to the USA, I had misplaced the FMM for that trip - I just pulled out the old one from my last drive in trip - they took it, threw it in the stack, and I was free to go! later found the original FMM - keeping it as a backup!

JZ - 3-24-2019 at 12:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

That old 2017 FMM came in handy when I flew in to SJD. On the way back to the USA, I had misplaced the FMM for that trip - I just pulled out the old one from my last drive in trip - they took it, threw it in the stack, and I was free to go! later found the original FMM - keeping it as a backup!

Sneaky. I like it.

Marc - 3-25-2019 at 10:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

Sneaky. I like it.

Yes since the date stamp is almost always illegible.

[Edited on 3-25-2019 by Marc]

willardguy - 3-25-2019 at 12:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Marc

Quote: Originally posted by JZ

Quote: Originally posted by caj13

Sneaky. I like it.

Yes since the date stamp is almost always illegible.

[Edited on 3-25-2019 by Marc]

no kidding! I've actually given up trying to decipher the date on some!

thebajarunner - 3-25-2019 at 05:32 PM

Tried to turn one in at the Los Cabos airport incoming immigration desk and the nice lady officer smiled, ripped it in two and dropped it in the trash.
Tried to get one issued in December at Otay for a morning meeting and the nice lady officer there also smiled and said "No necesito"

Laws made up and enacted on the fly, so to speak

David K - 3-26-2019 at 06:06 AM

Even the bureaucrats hate the bureaucracy!

Last month, at the Otay crossing, three vehicles, 8 Americans, no FMM asked for going into Mexico and waiting in secondary for an hour to secure the import papers for the media equipment. The 'fixer' handled it and when I asked her if we go in to get FMMs, she said those were not needed since we were staying in the state of Baja California for less than a week.

Like the old days, well 10-20 years ago, anyway. Keep in mind, she was not a government agent but a company that facilitates TV and movie crews to operate in Mexico with border formalities and security.

JoeJustJoe - 3-26-2019 at 07:08 AM

Even the bureaucrats hate the bureaucracy!

Last month, at the Otay crossing, three vehicles, 8 Americans, no FMM asked for going into Mexico and waiting in secondary for an hour to secure the import papers for the media equipment. The 'fixer' handled it and when I asked her if we go in to get FMMs, she said those were not needed since we were staying in the state of Baja California for less than a week.

Like the old days, well 10-20 years ago, anyway. Keep in mind, she was not a government agent but a company that facilitates TV and movie crews to operate in Mexico with border formalities and security.

David K. maybe you should not put yourself out there as the defacto Baja expert, and then you wouldn't have The Goat questioning your knowledge a few posts back.

You act surprised when when those 8 media trucks were told no FMM needed for a short trip into Baja.

That's been my experience often when crossing the border that even walking in as a pedestrian they don't even bother fillng out a FMM once they find out my visit will be brief and like thousands of Americans I don't stop at the border in a car to pick up a FMM if my visit will be brief and not far from the border.

If I'm traveling by air in Mexico, I will folllow the procedures and if Mexico officials tear up the FMM upon leaving. I won't care because I know I will have no problems traveling to Mexico again regardless what happened to my last FMM.

I really don't pay attention to some rumor about some obsure post on some other site that claims if you didn't turn in your FMM you will have future travel problems.

Even if you talk to one Baja/Mexico official and he tells you what the laws are in Mexico, that doesn't make it gospel because he could be wrong and so you would need a lot more information to make an official statement about Mexican laws.

Only on the gringo sites especially on Talk Baja do they make such an big deal out of the FMM and then asign all these horror stories of what could happen to you if you do not have a FMM.

They claim you're an illegal Alien if you don't have a FMM and also claim if you get into an auto accident in Mexico without a FMM that your insurance company won't pay the claim......I just roll my eyes........and no I'm no Mexico expert by I cross the border often and see what goes on, and I know Mexico is not enforcing many of it's laws.

mtgoat666 - 3-26-2019 at 07:14 AM

Did we determine if your facilitator was qualified or competent?
I suspect that a facilitator arranging for foreign workers should be knowledgeable in how to work legally. In this case i think you dont need a work visa, but you do need to do proper fmm.
Anywho, as an “expert” you really should research the true requirements instead of spinning yarns, sharing misc anecdotal info you pick up in the bar on on the net.

David K - 3-26-2019 at 07:30 AM

No yarns, I report EXACTLY what happened to ME.
You want to know more, then YOU go ahead and find out.
Do you know which way it is to Mexico? I wouldn't know if you do, based on the trip reports you have posted on Nomad!

norte - 3-26-2019 at 09:58 AM

Oh you are so correct Joe. Wouldn't want anyone or any site promoting following the law. After all we are Gringos who can do what we want.

JoeJustJoe - 3-26-2019 at 10:40 AM

Oh you are so correct Joe. Wouldn't want anyone or any site promoting following the law. After all we are Gringos who can do what we want.

Norte my opinion will change when I actually see members posting actual Mexican laws, and legal contracts, for example on auto insurance polices, then perhaps I will change my opinion.

Now what Hook posted below, has nothing to do with law, than it does with board gossip by some obscure member that doesn't come back and answer for his posting. ( I have nothing against Hook this time because he is trying to verify the info)

When David K. posts something some Baja official, told him, that doesn't make it law either, although I'm sure David K is very knowledgeable about Mexico.

Face it, laws in Mexico, are not always black and white, nor are they always enforced. So if a Mexican official tells you he is not going to accept your FMM on your exit from Mexico, just accept it.

Now there are a few of you that get caught up with what you think is the law, to a point of bordering on ridiculous. On the back on the FMM, it says to return it upon leaving Mexico, and that's for airlines, by car, or walking.

There are a few crazy people here, who actually try to return the FMM when they made a brief trip to Baja by car or walking.

Hey get it through your heads, Baja has no procedures in place to return the FMM by car or walking, nor does anybody care. In fact, we heard since 2015 Mexico, tells you that you are no longer required to turn it in upon exit by car or foot)

________________________________

Hook wrote: Just got word that someone trying to re-enter Mexico at Nogales, AZ was denied a new FMM because they had not turned in their old one. This was on a San Carlos message board.

KasloKid - 3-26-2019 at 01:18 PM

I quote an inmate who once said:
"If you're into deep enough chit where you need an FMM, then you better f *** ng well have one".
Of course, if that were to happen, I doubt very much he/she/they would brag about or relate their experience.

To each their own.

Alm - 3-26-2019 at 02:12 PM

Offtopic. Coming without FMM has nothing to do with returning (or not) FMM. Except for when you leave you vehicle and fly back North.

"Flexible" approach of Mexican officers to their own law is well known, unfortunately.

David K - 3-26-2019 at 02:30 PM

Well, I did NOT return my FMM, issued almost exactly 6 months earlier. That makes my reply on topic, I hope?

bajaguy - 3-26-2019 at 03:09 PM

The "fixer" is full of crap.

Last month, at the Otay crossing, three vehicles, 8 Americans, no FMM asked for going into Mexico and waiting in secondary for an hour to secure the import papers for the media equipment. The 'fixer' handled it and when I asked her if we go in to get FMMs, she said those were not needed since we were staying in the state of Baja California for less than a week.

Like the old days, well 10-20 years ago, anyway. Keep in mind, she was not a government agent but a company that facilitates TV and movie crews to operate in Mexico with border formalities and security.

BajaBill74 - 3-26-2019 at 03:25 PM

Years ago, crossing at San Ysidro I offered my expired FMM for the man to copy and he said "Don't show me that or I'll have to arrest you."

David K - 3-26-2019 at 03:49 PM

She may be Terry, but she gets paid the big bucks to take care of these media people.

When I questioned her about needing FMMs, she said "where did you hear that???"
Oh, from the INM officers at the border...

It wasn't my place to correct this Mexican professional doing her job, in her own country, but I tried to put it in the form of a question.

Of course, nowhere did we need to present tourist cards or passports during our 4 days and three nights in Mexico. Passports only to show U.S. officers returning. Heck, I spent a total of 9 weeks or more the past two years traveling up and down the length of the peninsula, 15,000 miles, and never was asked to present the FMM (that I always had on me).

norte - 3-26-2019 at 04:27 PM

Oh you are so correct Joe. Wouldn't want anyone or any site promoting following the law. After all we are Gringos who can do what we want.

Wow. I did not think there was any question about having to have one. Read your own post again... Do I need to get the law for you. https://www.inm.gob.mx/fmme/publico/en/solicitud.html

norte - 3-26-2019 at 04:29 PM

from JJJ post "That's been my experience often when crossing the border that even walking in as a pedestrian they don't even bother fillng out a FMM once they find out my visit will be brief and like thousands of Americans I don't stop at the border in a car to pick up a FMM if my visit will be brief and not far from the border." and he needs to read the law above.

David K - 3-26-2019 at 05:15 PM

Did you guys read the Mexican government link? It says a passport card is only good for visiting the border zone areas and not for the interior of then republic! You must get a passport book!

Here is a copy from that site:

The applicant is aware that the card passport (Tarjeta Pasaporte) can only be used in the border crossings by land and for visiting the border zone; it might not be used to travel to the territory of the Mexican Republic or used for international air trips.

willardguy - 3-26-2019 at 05:18 PM

Did you guys read the Mexican government link? It says a passport card is only good for visiting the border zone areas and not for the interior of then republic! You must get a passport book!

Here is a copy from that site:

The applicant is aware that the card passport (Tarjeta Pasaporte) can only be used in the border crossings by land and for visiting the border zone; it might not be used to travel to the territory of the Mexican Republic or used for international air trips.

"might not"?

David K - 3-26-2019 at 05:29 PM

Translation glitch maybe instead of saying 'MAY NOT BE USED' ??

norte - 3-26-2019 at 05:58 PM

The Mexican government was pretty good about public access to public lands by Mexicans. It wasn't until the Gringos came that they had to restrict access. You, David, are not Mexican and have no rights to this Mexican land you want as you playground to trample with your vehicle.

David K - 3-26-2019 at 08:41 PM

I am a Californian and Baja was the original California. I go there to connect with the land I feel a part of. I have no rights to it and never said I did. Enough with fake news. I also tread lightly using 4WD and deflated tires to leave the land as close as it was before me. I also have hauled out bags of beer bottle trash tossed by Mexican spectators during an off road race. Take your anger and direct it at the problem not the solution.

norte - 3-27-2019 at 07:15 AM

I am a Californian and Baja was the original California. I go there to connect with the land I feel a part of. I have no rights to it and never said I did. Enough with fake news. I also tread lightly using 4WD and deflated tires to leave the land as close as it was before me. I also have hauled out bags of beer bottle trash tossed by Mexican spectators during an off road race. Take your anger and direct it at the problem not the solution.

Following your logic its more likely that Baja Californians feel a part of Kalifornia and should be able to freely come and "connect".

:lol:

David K - 3-27-2019 at 07:23 AM

They do! But not as many as their brothers from Oaxaca or cousins from Honduras! :biggrin:

JoeJustJoe - 3-27-2019 at 10:56 AM

Wow. I did not think there was any question about having to have one. Read your own post again... Do I need to get the law for you. https://www.inm.gob.mx/fmme/publico/en/solicitud.html

Norte you quoting the law for me is about as equivalent quoting laws against Jaywalking in the USA, while most everyone in the back drop is jaywalking in clear view of the police.

I know what Mexican laws and procedures are. My point is that Mexico doesn't seem to be enforcing those laws and continue to act like there is a free zone a few miles away from the border. ( we now find out there was never any official free zone around the border)

If you look on the back of the FMM it says that you're supposed to return the FMM upon exit of Mexico. Guess what Norte? Very few people who travel by car or foot return the FMM upon exit of Mexico. This is due to the fact Mexico, has no official procedures in place to do so.

So quit quoiting the laws on paper regarding the FMM, when we know the majority of people driving in Mexico, do not stop and get the FMM, especially if their trips are going to be brief and not far into Mexico.

Mexico at the border only has a procedure in place to stop all pedestrians and have foreigners fill out fill out a FMM, and even then they pass many foreigners right through without filling out any FMM once you tell them your trip will be less than seven days.

Mexico has no procedures in place to check all foreign cars entering Mexico, and making them fill out a FMM. So therefore, most people are not stopping, especially when Mexico officials tell many of them they don't have to stop.

Now Norte, if you never want to jaywalk, because of the laws, that's fine with me, but I jaywalk all the time because I know nobody is enforcing jaywalking laws.

from JJJ post "That's been my experience often when crossing the border that even walking in as a pedestrian they don't even bother fillng out a FMM once they find out my visit will be brief and like thousands of Americans I don't stop at the border in a car to pick up a FMM if my visit will be brief and not far from the border." and he needs to read the law above.

That's right Norte, this is my experience, and if you ever stopped at the border you could see all the cars passing right through and not stopping to get a FMM, or whatever reason.

BTW we know Mexican cops are corrupt, but I have yet to hear about a Mexican cop trying to shake down American tourists because he wasn't carrying a FMM.

What David K, said about his caravan of Americans coming to Baja for a few days, is a typical experience. They drive right through and don't stop to get a FMM.

David K - 3-27-2019 at 02:25 PM

What David K, said about his caravan of Americans coming to Baja for a few days, is a typical experience. They drive right through and don't stop to get a FMM.

What "caravan of Americans"? I never said any such thing.

The TV show crew and I were at Mexican Customs and Immigration (INM) for over an hour (I think closer to two hours), our three (3) vehicles were parked right by their building. In all that time, on a Saturday afternoon... not one official from customs or immigration inspected our vehicles or even walked near them, while the liaison person (fixer) was getting the import paperwork done for the media equipment and whatever else was needed. We also walked a ways a couple times to use the restrooms. This was right were the pedestrians enter Mexico at Otay, as well.

JoeJustJoe - 3-27-2019 at 03:41 PM

Sorry David K. But your TV crew sure sounded like a caravan to me.

Definition Caravan: "a company of travelers on a journey through desert or hostile regions"

There are many here that see Baja as a hostile region.

And the bottom line there was a group of foreigners from the film group that did not get the FMM, for whatever reason.

You are going to love this...
The Mexican arranger for the film group I am with, said no FMM was needed because we were staying in Baja Norte, and only if going to Baja Sure required it. I told her the newest rules (as told to us) and she questioned them, said "when was that"?, said basically that was not true. We waited for a long time for her to get the official clearance inside, for our 3 vehicles and 11 people, with equipment, and we left for the hotel. No FMMs ... When I drive south, I will still get one!

David K - 3-27-2019 at 04:40 PM

Sorry David K. But your TV crew sure sounded like a caravan to me.

Definition Caravan: "a company of travelers on a journey through desert or hostile regions"

There are many here that see Baja as a hostile region.

And the bottom line there was a group of foreigners from the film group that did not get the FMM, for whatever reason.