BajaNomad

Calafia Airlines flight to GN missing

BajaNomad - 12-25-2019 at 04:18 AM

December 24:

'Calafia Airlines flight A7872, took off from Hermosillo, Mexico, at around 07:00 LT (GMT-7) in the direction of Guerrero Negro Airport, where it should have landed at 08:10 LT (GMT-7).
After takeoff, flying over the Sea of Cortez approximately 89 kilometers (48 nautical miles) from the departure airport, contact with the aircraft was lost.'

https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20191224-...


The pilot has been identified as Alfonso Palomares Navarrete, along with a single passenger identified as Carlos Omar Zárate Camacho of Santa Rosalía, Baja California Sur.

https://mvsnoticias.com/noticias/estados/desaparece-avioneta...

BajaNomad - 12-25-2019 at 05:09 AM

'ElbuenChabe (@chabelobaez), Replying to @UlisesGtzR: Yo trabaja para una mina ubicada en Santa Rosalia y varias veces y tomaba esa ruta Guerrero Negro-Hermosillo por Calafia. En una ocasión salimos de GN con poca 🌧 y con los vientos la avioneta giro a quedae casi vertical totalmente.'

Translation: ''I work for a mine located in Santa Rosalia and several times I took that route Guerrero Negro-Hermosillo through Calafia. On one occasion we left GN with little 🌧 and with the winds the plane turned almost completely vertical.'

https://twitter.com/chabelobaez/status/1209607738856263683

bajaric - 12-25-2019 at 02:23 PM

A straight line from Hermosillo to Guerrero Negro would have taken it over Punta San Francisquito, then across the area north of El Arco. Remote area, not a good place to crash assuming they made it that far. Maybe somebody near Punta San Francisquito should take a boat out and search for survivors.

pacificobob - 12-25-2019 at 05:20 PM

Aircraft type? C-208?

4x4abc - 12-25-2019 at 06:22 PM

radar contact lost around here:
28°46'53.84"N, 112°30'52.50"W

JZ - 12-25-2019 at 06:55 PM

My friends fly Calafia from Guaymas to Loreto often.

advrider - 12-26-2019 at 09:19 AM

Anymore info on this? I haven't seen anything on the news?

rhintransit - 12-26-2019 at 04:39 PM

NO SURVIVORS OBSERVED😭😭😭

Debris of the Cessna Caravan of the AeroCalafia company were found this afternoon 47.7 miles from the international airport in the city of Hermosillo.

From Facebook TalkBaja group:

In this aircraft was traveling as a passenger the young lawyer from Santa Rosalia Carlos Omar Zarate Camacho as well as the pilot identified as Alfonso Palomares Navarrete.

They were wanted since the morning of December 24, when they were heading to Guerrero Negro. It is noted that there was bad weather at the time of the aircraft's take-off.

Today, investigations will begin into what appears to be an accident in which there are no survivors.

BajaBlanca - 12-27-2019 at 09:55 PM

Sad to hear this. It really is a small craft. May they RIP.

Not that small

thebajarunner - 12-28-2019 at 10:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
Sad to hear this. It really is a small craft. May they RIP.


OK.... Small if you think a 737 is a small airliner,
But the Caravan is the real workhorse of the Third World
Lots of mission agencies use this across Africa and remote areas
Single engine, but tons of lifting power
We flew in one out to an outpost in Irian Jaya and there were six of us on board, plus the floor was full of roofing sheets, and even an iron cook stove being hauled out to the village.

I feel as safe in a Caravan as a 737 MAX (Lousy example, I know)
Trust me, this baby is the real deal
Don't blame pilot error (taking off in bad weather) on the aircraft

mtgoat666 - 12-28-2019 at 11:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca  
Sad to hear this. It really is a small craft. May they RIP.


Smaller than a typical commercial jet. But at 13 pax capacity, a fairly large single engine prop plane. The Caravan is used all over mex as a puddle jumper between cities/places not served by commercial jets.

Don Pisto - 12-28-2019 at 12:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
radar contact lost around here:
28°46'53.84"N, 112°30'52.50"W
Which is out over the water, yet if I understand correctly the crash site was on land near the coast somewhere around Miguel Alemán. Had he turned back towards Hermosillo? :?:

[Edited on 12-28-2019 by lencho]


they almost made it to the sea.....here's a map showing the route and crash site
https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20191224-...

"Almost"???

thebajarunner - 12-28-2019 at 04:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
radar contact lost around here:
28°46'53.84"N, 112°30'52.50"W
Which is out over the water, yet if I understand correctly the crash site was on land near the coast somewhere around Miguel Alemán. Had he turned back towards Hermosillo? :?:

[Edited on 12-28-2019 by lencho]


they almost made it to the sea.....here's a map showing the route and crash site
https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20191224-...


I flew for 25 years, got my IFR rating
Never heard the word "almost" in reference to aviation

airmech - 12-28-2019 at 05:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  
Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto  
Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  
radar contact lost around here:
28°46'53.84"N, 112°30'52.50"W
Which is out over the water, yet if I understand correctly the crash site was on land near the coast somewhere around Miguel Alemán. Had he turned back towards Hermosillo? :?:

[Edited on 12-28-2019 by lencho]


they almost made it to the sea.....here's a map showing the route and crash site
https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20191224-...


I flew for 25 years, got my IFR rating
Never heard the word "almost" in reference to aviation[/


Ha ha bullchit

advrider - 12-28-2019 at 06:36 PM

Yeah, not sure almost fits in aviation! A lot of things that you can almost make work but I don't want a plane that I'm on to be one of them. I had a friend with an ultralight powered by a VW motor, I had a lot of VW'S that almost made a trip! I never went up with him, he never crashed but I'm OK with missing that adventure..

There's Bad Weather ..................

MrBillM - 12-28-2019 at 06:44 PM

And then there's BAD weather !

How bad was it ? Does anybody here KNOW ?

pacificobob - 12-29-2019 at 08:10 AM

Career pilot. J3 to 747. I know 3 pilot who took their last flight in a c208[caravan].
The wing was designed to be fast and fuel efficient. A complete departure from other single engine cessnas. A lot of compromise was present in the design in the interest of making the launch customer happy. [Fedex]
If that flight got high enough the find some icing conditions, that could have been a factor. More likely "controled flight into terrain " might be a cause.

LancairDriver - 12-29-2019 at 08:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
And then there's BAD weather !

How bad was it ? Does anybody here KNOW ?


Pilots have been pushing bad weather since aviation began. Some pay the ultimate price but it still happens in spite of all the examples. A fellow Lancair owner tried to get around some really bad weather in Idaho a few months ago. This was the result.

6CA3032D-33AE-4CD9-99E9-B4FB277D5E7C.jpeg - 46kB

Don Pisto - 12-29-2019 at 10:56 AM

looks like this plane had past problems?

BajaNomad - 12-29-2019 at 01:48 PM

https://www.expreso.com.mx/seccion/sonora/140257-encuentran-...

https://www.elsudcaliforniano.com.mx/policiaca/localizan-avi...


While imperfect, if you need help translating, copy and paste the URL here:
https://translate.google.com

AKgringo - 12-29-2019 at 03:35 PM

I am not a pilot, but I have flown in several Caravans since they are widely used in Alaska. They are not a bush plane, they are a small commuter aircraft for serving established airports.

I am in Anchorage right now, and icing today will occur at sea level!

[Edited on 12-29-2019 by AKgringo]

del mar - 12-29-2019 at 03:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
And then there's BAD weather !

How bad was it ? Does anybody here KNOW ?



this was the weather at time of the crash


problems at Calafia airlines?
https://themazatlanpost.com/2019/12/28/calafia-airlines-the-...



[Edited on 12-29-2019 by del mar]

Alm - 12-29-2019 at 07:39 PM

Calafia flight(S) from TIJ- to GN are also missing, all of them :)... I remember there were such regular flights in the past?

TLBaja79 - 12-30-2019 at 08:50 AM

We have flown Calafia for a handful of years now and all was ok until this year. A couple times we were delayed more than 6hrs and one of the times the flight was cancelled 10hrs later...

The lack of communication and the 2hr delay every couple hours had me thinking this was due to the plane not being fit to fly?
After reading this recent Calafia accident and other issues my red flags were most likely correct.

After a couple loooooonng delays and cancellation we have started booking with Volaris instead. Not as convenient (only Tues/Sat) to Loreto but so far they have been reliable!

BajaParrothead - 12-30-2019 at 08:56 AM

I flew Volaris from TJ to La Paz and it was a nice experience. I'm looking at Volaris now for flights from Los Cabos to Guadalajara. Less than 80 bucks round trip!!:bounce:

Pacifico - 12-30-2019 at 10:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaParrothead  
I flew Volaris from TJ to La Paz and it was a nice experience. I'm looking at Volaris now for flights from Los Cabos to Guadalajara. Less than 80 bucks round trip!!:bounce:


Wow! That's awesome! My wife and I just flew Volaris from TJ to Zihuantanejo RT for $400 total and that included our CBX crossing tickets! Love Volaris!!!

bajaric - 12-30-2019 at 03:24 PM

Seems odd they would crash well south of the flight plan, and not ditch the aircraft in the sea instead. And, a lawyer on board. There has got to be a conspiracy theory in there somewhere, where is jjj when you need him --

One Might ASSUME ...............

MrBillM - 12-30-2019 at 05:46 PM

That the pilot didn't actually CHOOSE his point of contact.

In any case, had there been an opportunity to choose, a water landing in a fixed-gear aircraft might necessarily be a last choice.

But, assuming that no reliable witnesses are discovered, it's all a guess, isn't it ?

I notice that the referenced town has 29 residents. Not exactly a hot spot.

What are all of those rectangular green areas ? Saltwater Ponds ? For ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12-31

They are Shrimp Farms !

Although I initially found a news article pointing to something a bit different:

L.A. Times 2008

>https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jul-10-fi-seafarm10-story.html

Learned something new triggered by the Calafia Airlines Boo Boo ! And, a lot of indoor time thanks to SNOW.

BTW, some interesting miscellania regarding the Cessna Caravan:

By November 2017, 2,600 have been delivered and 20 million flight hours logged.

As of 31 December 2017 there had been 216 Caravan hull losses from all causes, including 206 accidents causing 427 fatalities – an average of 2 fatalities per hull-loss, with 29.7% of all occupants surviving fatal accidents; and six hijackings causing one fatality. For the 198 out of the 216 hull-loss occurrences where the aircraft was in use and its flight nature is known, 36.9% were passenger flights, 33.8% cargo flights, 8.1% military flights, 5.6% special flights – agriculture, survey, etc., 4% private and business flights, 3% test or flight training and 8.1% miscellaneous uses – demonstrations, deliveries, illegal.

For a time, Cessna Caravans were crashing when encountering icy conditions. The FAA threatened to pull the 208’s certification for flight in sub-zero weather unless Cessna could figure out how to counter its tendency to fail in these icy areas. Accidents involved pilots from entry-level new hires to the most experienced pilots and thus could be explained best by the environment they were flying in.



[Edited on 2-18-2020 by MrBillM]

Fly and Die !

MrBillM - 2-18-2020 at 10:28 AM

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437...

https://themazatlanpost.com/2019/12/28/calafia-airlines-the-...

Marc - 3-2-2020 at 07:02 AM

I have flown in Twin Otters in SE Asia & S Pacific. I am not a pilot, but I do feel safer with two engines. Just sayin'.

LancairDriver - 3-2-2020 at 08:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Marc  
I have flown in Twin Otters in SE Asia & S Pacific. I am not a pilot, but I do feel safer with two engines. Just sayin'.


When it comes to the large commercial jets this is a true statement. Some years back the FAA decided the jet engines had reached sufficient reliability to make long international over water flights and cleared two engine flights. But with the smaller piston engine driven twin engine aircraft popular view of many pilots was that the second engine will usually just take you a little farther to the crash scene.
The Pratt & Whitney turbine PT6 engine used on Caravans is one of the most reliable engines in use today. I believe Twin Otters use two of these engines.

Got ICE ?

MrBillM - 3-2-2020 at 10:18 AM

Aircraft engines (Piston or Turbine) are exceptionally reliable. There are VERY few engine failures not due to maintenance issues OR fuel quality/delivery problems. While my own ('70s era) piloting experience was limited to under 300 hours, others have flown single-engine aircraft for many thousands of hours without mishap.

In any case, while we will likely never know for sure, the consensus opinion seems to indicate icing as the likely culprit. A surprisingly light accumulation of wing ice can have a disastrous effect on lift and control. In which case, the number of engines isn't a factor.

LancairDriver - 3-2-2020 at 11:01 AM

In the last 20 years I have owned ten airplanes, all piston engines. Never had a serious failure in 6,000 hrs. Turbines are far ahead of piston engines by far in reliability. Just ask the FAA. Having said that, it would be great if aircraft engines matched the reliability of current auto engines. True, bad weather flying decisions including fog and ice accounts for most aircraft accidents. The latest high profile example being the tragic Kobe Bryant crash.

bajaric - 3-5-2020 at 02:31 PM

A sad situation, condolences.
This is my speculation as an armchair observer, and not as a pilot;
Iced up. Tried to outrun it south and did not make it. The weather satellite that was posted at the time showed a large cold front, was exceptionally cold in So Cal at the time.

In the last few days a freak storm dumped snow on the mountains above San Felipe. New ice age?

On another note, where can I get some of those sustainably harvested shrimp?

Know why twins have two engines????

thebajarunner - 3-5-2020 at 03:49 PM

Cuz they won't fly on just one.....

I owned and flew four different singles, all the way from an experimental to a T210

Had one icing issue in my Cutlass, but that had nothing to do with having only one engine.

pacificobob - 3-5-2020 at 06:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  
Cuz they won't fly on just one.....

I owned and flew four different singles, all the way from an experimental to a T210

Had one icing issue in my Cutlass, but that had nothing to do with having only one engine.

They most certainly fly on 1 engine. I am not inclined to explain it here. I have landed twins on 1 engine. 4 engine dc6 on 2 engines and 3 engine jet on 2.