BajaNomad - GM going electric, IC engine is dead

Living in western USA far from big cities it is not understood how travel away from home would be possible what with a hour to recharge the car in a place with no other services like a place to eat or something else to do during the layover. These remote charging places have no security at all except for a chain link fence with a gate.
Surely a new style 5 minute battery has to happen pretty soon.

The technology changes every year,... be patient, grasshopper.

Swappable batteries would be fastest recharge method.... in/out of fuel stop in a matter of minutes.

ReTire - 1-29-2021 at 09:14 AM

Or perhaps a way to harvest some of that energy used to move and stop you for topping the batteries off.

I have confidence that by 2035 (Jeez, that’s only 14 years away!!) a lot of progress will be made.

David K - 1-29-2021 at 09:32 AM

Why can't the four rotating wheels (or other rotating parts) be made to double as generators to recharge the batteries while you are driving? A solar panel roof and hood can recharge while parked in daylight.

Until that or some other 'magic bean' system happens, it is not practical for traveling in the backcountry or multi-day Baja adventure trips, only daily commuting to work from home.

A hybrid that works like the Prius, where it has a engine for when the battery isn't enough, is a middle-ground solution.

Of course, the environmental harm from lithium mining and dead battery disposal is a real concern.

Skipjack Joe - 1-29-2021 at 10:28 AM

Why can't the four rotating wheels (or other rotating parts) be made to double as generators to recharge the batteries while you are driving?.

Because you can’t get more energy out of a system than you put in. It’s one of the laws of thermodynamics.

In your case you need energy to run the car and energy to replace the energy that enters the system. Another words replacing the electricity going in is full usage of energy, but you still need more to move the car. Where will that come from. It’s not like recharging a battery to start the car.

TMW - 1-29-2021 at 10:35 AM

It's 2035 now and in 2030 it'll be 2060 etc. When their sales start to fall they'll rethink their position. I think the IC engine is on the way out but it will be a while. Me I'll probably never buy another car or truck unless I wreck what I've got or come into a lot of money. I'm with AKgringo on this.

BajaTed - 1-29-2021 at 10:39 AM

Why can't the four rotating wheels (or other rotating parts) be made to double as generators to recharge the batteries while you are driving?.

Kinetic Energy Recovery System(s) (KERS) has been used in F1 race cars for years. Braking energy used to dynamically recharge engine battery.
The Porsche Taycan (my next car) has that feature

David K - 1-29-2021 at 10:57 AM

Thanks for the replies.
Igor, I suspected it was restricted by some mechanical law and that the weight of the magnets would negatively impact the system. However, I have faith that in the not too distant future there will be a discovery to solve the issue!

I have an idea!

AKgringo - 1-29-2021 at 11:26 AM

I have property with a forest that is in dire need of management to lessen the chances of a catastrophic fire. The standing dead, and downed trees plus some that are future problems, provide a huge source of fuel!

All I need to do is convert one of my utility trailers to a steam turbine generator and I could roll on down the road like a locomotive!

I will start checking old episodes of "The Red Green Show" to see if the good old boys at the Possum Lodge have solved the problem. :wow:

motoged - 1-29-2021 at 11:42 AM

Gary,
I have heard that Gorilla Tape is better than Duct tape.....just to keep a few loose things from jangling.

Skipjack Joe - 1-29-2021 at 02:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaTed

Why can't the four rotating wheels (or other rotating parts) be made to double as generators to recharge the batteries while you are driving?.

Kinetic Energy Recovery System(s) (KERS) has been used in F1 race cars for years. Braking energy used to dynamically recharge engine battery.
The Porsche Taycan (my next car) has that feature

You can't recover enough energy to fully run the vehicle you're recovering from. That should be apparent. There are many systems to recover energy. Actually, they're not recovering anything. The energy 'recovered' is taken away from where it was being applied, the running of the vehicle.

There is an interesting story from the Tales of Baron Munhausen. As the story goes, he and his horse accidentally end up in a bog and are sinking rapidly. What to do? The clever Baron quickly comes to a solution. By pulling his hair on his head he lifts both himself and his horse out of the bog to safety.

A fully recoverable running engine is as logical as this story.

David K - 1-29-2021 at 02:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

Why can't the four rotating wheels (or other rotating parts) be made to double as generators to recharge the batteries while you are driving?

Similar to the reason drinking bleach isn't the solution to COVID. :cool:

Sure it is... drink enough and you will NEVER die from Covid! :lol:

ReTire - 1-29-2021 at 02:12 PM

We will see what everyone thinks when the price of fuel is $15-25 a gallon in 2021 dollars.

TMW - 1-29-2021 at 03:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ReTire

We will see what everyone thinks when the price of fuel is $15-25 a gallon in 2021 dollars.

Or they'll tax you 10 cents per mile to drive your electric car to pay for roads etc. That's what CA is considering in lieu of the gas tax.

mtgoat666 - 1-29-2021 at 04:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by TMW

Quote: Originally posted by ReTire

We will see what everyone thinks when the price of fuel is $15-25 a gallon in 2021 dollars.

Or they'll tax you 10 cents per mile to drive your electric car to pay for roads etc. That's what CA is considering in lieu of the gas tax.

gotta have some way to pay for roads, eh?

Ateo - 1-29-2021 at 06:03 PM

As a guy who works in the gas station industry, I'd have to say this will kill my job as an Underground Storage Tank inspector in a few years....but it's for the better of the planet so I won't complain....I gotta start thinking about evolving into another line of work or something on the periphery. Guess selling my business in 15-20 years is no longer an option. HA HA.

Hook - 1-30-2021 at 08:00 AM

There is so much auto pollution produced by people running short errands within 10 miles of their home. Especially if it is surface streets.

My wife and I have outfitted our e-bikes with panniers. Big ones! We basically do all our food shopping, hardware store shopping, liquor store shopping, medical/dental appts.; basically ANY errand that we can think of, we consider the bike first. Both in the Boise, ID area AND in San Carlos, Sonora.

About the only thing we can't do is carry enough for a Costco run or carry a pizza home from Papa Murphy's (but they do make pizza racks for bikes!). And we wont take it into Guaymas for a Home Depot or Walmart run. Just too dangerous on surface streets in larger Mexican cities.

My point is, if people REALLY started to consider what they can do with an e-bike, it could replace TONS (LITERALLY!) of pollution put out by IC engines........... and they wouldn't have to be banned or forced into extinction. There will still be many transportation needs that an IC engine will do best, for many years to come. Their pollution could be reduced to where it is as acceptable as power plants or interstate trucking/railroads, for the capabilities they provide.

Plus, biking is SO MUCH MORE FUN AND RELAXING than driving a car. The Boise area allows bikes to "ignore" stop signs and stop lights, provided there is no oncoming traffic. They are emphasizing bikes lanes EVERYWHERE. I am so behind these efforts to re-design our cities and suburbs to make them bike friendly.

I really feel this e-bike movement could "save the planet" if more people would just give them a try. They are incredibly fun and good for the environment.

PaulW - 1-30-2021 at 08:21 AM

Hook, Very good
I have been a rider for many years and I found the more miles I rode on the bicycle the higher the risk. Turns out there are bad drivers and some with attitudes and it was not long before I was hit. Hard to avoid other people doing their thing that causes you harm.
My solution was avoid places where cars and pickups congregate - like grocery stores and fast food places- etc. But the real solution is less miles on the bike and careful choices of your route.
Enjoy your bikes.

mtgoat666 - 1-30-2021 at 09:46 AM

Expect riots when the big V8s expire
Do you thing it will be liberals or conservatives that will participate in riots?
The die hards will reconstruct the dead old fashioned rigs until the petro fuel disappears.

My father in law has a vcr and turntable. There will also be elderly luddites and quaint old cranks to keep IC engines going for a while

gnukid - 1-30-2021 at 10:01 AM

People don't seem to realize where how solar works, it requires petroleum products to make solar panels, cables, batteries, and batteries are among the most toxic products we produce. Electricity has a storage and transfer problem, while the earth produces petroleum as a natural by product which is a form of stored or sequestered energy. The earth is dependent on releasing sequestered carbon to fuel plant life that has a symbiotic relationship with animals.

While toxic pollution and wasteful production processes are problematic, carbon dioxide by itself is not a pultant nor is petroleum, while solar energy creates massive toxic waste and is inefficient.

Electric cars have huge batteries that fail in ten years producing expensive toxic waste. While, gas vehicles can last for much longer .

Worse, hybrid vehicles are over-engineered dual system heavy inefficient vehicles that create huge toxic waste.

Add on wind power which is extremely unreliable and damaging to the ecosystem and ambient environment.

Certainly people should have a personal choice, though mandating electric is simply virtue signal while adding costs, and transferring one source of transit to another on the road to total restriction of mobility with surveillance and control.

I have worked on building electric cars and have some, they have thousands of electronic computer parts that often fail and are far more costly to replace while also requiring precious metals all for some purpose outside of economy or ecology.

This electric vehicle "mandate" is a political play that will result in massive toxic waste, reduced mobility and exponential increase in cost.

[Edited on 1-30-2021 by gnukid]

BajaTed - 1-30-2021 at 10:35 AM

Here is the story:

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-produc...

Millionaires will have boutique refineries for their IC car collections. They already have private race tracks. Find a one per center for a friend, trickle down @ its best. :bounce:

Kiss the ring as needed

mtgoat666 - 1-30-2021 at 10:36 AM

I have worked on building electric cars and have some,...

Lol

Paul, tinkering with graphics, text and code on a computer is not building “building electric cars.”

You are delusional or liar to claim to be an engineer, machinist or mechanic or anyone involved in any way with designing or manufacturing cars...

Owning an electric car does not make you an expert in anything....

Assembling a radio shack kit model does not make you an expert in anything other than how to solder a $3 9v motor

gnukid - 1-30-2021 at 11:27 AM

Goat

You continue to be misinformed not to mention delusional, my experience comes from working inside the top electric car team, while observing the broad industry, anyone can look up the information or make a google search alert for electric vehicle costs, self-driving electric vehicle crashes, electric vehicle automation, electric vehicle robotics and see the quagmire being created on lies.

The costs of an electric vehicle are astronomically higher and those costs are both subsidized by the individual and by the government which is in turn paid by the people in taxes, the purchase costs are 40% higher than traditional costs that do not account for the actual costs.

The purpose for all this is for automation otherwise known as The Great Reset to reduce people's independence, mobility and ability to do their own product transit while adding automation, self-driving vehicles for large scale product transportation like Amazon, while you are increasingly restricted, controlled, monitored.

A typical modern electric car will last 6 years, have an accident every 11,000 miles and then is obsolete. and can not be fixed by you or anyone else.

It is so complex there are thousands of computers, each uniquely designed for the application, no spares exists, no replacements once it breaks, it's over.

A battery is absolutely the holy grail of toxic waste and is not recyclable, not to mention is extremely high risk t be sitting next to such a high power electric grid. The purpose of a battery is to store energy in the most inefficient manner available versus other options, oil, hydrogen, nuclear, heat etc.

While solar and wind are fantastic they ultimately have a different complimentary role to petroleum to support the home and car. Majority of power will always come from petroleum, coal and nuclear, then sun and wind, all of which are naturally produced.

Oil is part of a natural process, a cycle, of carbon sequestration, decomposition and output. We benefit from the this process and use oil to increase our comfort and economy otherwise we would be living in freezing cold or too hot weather, unable to move.

Of course solar is dependent on the sun, duh! Many places don't have consistent sun, while in Baja we do, so Solar makes sense to power homes and vehicles in Baja for short distance, golf carts, simplified electric carts etc. but not for transiting the peninsula.

So take a look at the earth, if everyone lived nearer the equator in areas without clouds solar would be a benefit, but many live throughout the north and south for a variety of reasons where sun is often inaequate to maintain solar systems, so all that electricity is produced by coal and oil as are the solar products and nearly all the products a modern person uses.

Are people aware that Telsas super chargers stations are coal or oil powered or how much petroleum products are required to make a Tesla or how much toxic waste the battery creates or how many accidents and requests for assistance occur in electric vehicles versus traditional vehicles. Probably not, because you have a political belief in virtue signaling nonsense and could not do the math to compare the costs and risks of typical modern electric car versus a gas powered vehicle.

See you on the side of the road Goat virtue signaling.

[Edited on 1-30-2021 by gnukid]

mtgoat666 - 1-30-2021 at 11:38 AM

... my experience comes from working inside the top electric car team, ...

Paul,
Did the “top electric car team” fire your @ss because your are anti-electric car? Or did they fire you because you are a qanon lunatic?

gnukid - 1-30-2021 at 11:47 AM

Note that Goat has no substance, no data points, no actual experience but he loves to repeat memes.

Anyone, use a search engine and do a search on electric car safety risks, electric car crashes, electric car explosions, self driving car crashes. Simply use google and create a search alert and see how many stories come in everyday pointing out the fraud behind electric car promotion.

While yesterday I took a drive to a remote beach in a 1965 and met a nice gentlemen named Mr Gastalum in a 1964 Ford 100 we chatted both are cars get 30 miles to gallon and are in perfect condition, that is ecology!

To be clear solar power is awesome for home and small golf carts or scooters for bikes. But you will never replace the gas powered vehicle for individual transit over distance.

[Edited on 1-30-2021 by gnukid]

Hook - 1-30-2021 at 11:56 AM

Hook, Very good
I have been a rider for many years and I found the more miles I rode on the bicycle the higher the risk. Turns out there are bad drivers and some with attitudes and it was not long before I was hit. Hard to avoid other people doing their thing that causes you harm.
My solution was avoid places where cars and pickups congregate - like grocery stores and fast food places- etc. But the real solution is less miles on the bike and careful choices of your route.
Enjoy your bikes.

Well. it's obviously not for you.

But if everyone uses your solution of less miles on the bike..........then that means more miles in the car. Which exacerbates the situation you are so trying to avoid.

Hey, I've been in CAR accidents that were the result of stupid drivers. What you gonna do? Sit in your house and order everything on line?

Not me.

I will continue to do my part to get more cars off suburban roads..........and enjoy the hell out of doing it!

mtgoat666 - 1-30-2021 at 12:02 PM

But you will never replace the gas powered vehicle for individual transit over distance.

You sound like the cranks that existed over a century ago who said autos would never replace horses.

Technology advances.

I am frankly amazed that when I started driving my cars were carbureted engines with not an inkling of computers, and now we are driving electric cars with almost-reliable self-driving. I find it astounding.
When I started driving I could tinker with everything under the hood and fix most anything on my car, with a simple manual. Now when I open the hood I don’t even want to know how to fix all those computerized gadgets that make my modern car tick.

Battery (or fuel cell) technology (or othervtechnology we can’t even imagine yet) will advance until zero emission vehicles will be autonomously carrying us on long distance trips.

Paul, don’t be a Luddite. Cars have totally changed in last 30 years. 30 years from now, you won’t be able to find an IC engine in new cars.

The day I fly down baja on hwy 1 in a self-driving car will be fabulous. Imagine how relaxing the drive will be :light:

gnukid - 1-30-2021 at 02:26 PM

It's fun for curmudgeon house bound Nomad viejitos to turn global ecology into a personal vendetta against practical minded Baja adventurers who actually Go Out.

Solar and electrical is awesome and allows for off grind living, unlimited daytime Air conditioning in the desert and near freezing beers in the boiling heat, though, nothing will replace the economy and reliability of the gas motor, though certainly, electric scooters and bikes and carts are great additions.

The idea of Zero Carbon Footprint, that electric doesn't use petroleum is misleading, solar/electrical use as much oil or more than pure gas powered systems and it's more expensive and higher maintenance but can provide more luxury while being wasteful, and apparently makes some people feel good too.

gnukid - 1-30-2021 at 02:29 PM

By the way, my approach is to take what I learned about efficiency in electrical and apply to gas, we rebuild motors, taking time to improve flow and tolerance and custom build ignition to improve performance, while I run a panel on the roof of the car and house for freezer and accessories. Let's see where it goes, just don't fall for Zero Carbon Footprint false ideals, solar/electrical is among the most highest polluting systems of power.

[Edited on 1-31-2021 by gnukid]

Goats are easily amazed ?

MrBillM - 1-31-2021 at 02:51 PM

The Devil Goat states that he was amazed that vehicles back when he began driving were "Carbureted" and not computer-controlled.

REALLY ?

Given the state of development in Fuel-Injection systems and (especially) computer technology, only a Goat would find it amazing. To the extent that a Goat might think, anyway.

Granted, I am assuming that he didn't wait until middle-aged to begin driving, BUT ................... Quien Sabe ? Some people are just slow.

Skipjack Joe - 1-31-2021 at 03:34 PM

Electricity has a storage and transfer problem, while the earth produces petroleum as a natural by product which is a form of stored or sequestered energy. The earth is dependent on releasing sequestered carbon to fuel plant life that has a symbiotic relationship with animals.

The earth doesn't produce petroleum. The sun produces it as well. Oil is just organic matter that was produced by the sun but not fully decomposed into inorganic matter.

Plants existed on this earth a long time before CO2 releasing animals appeared on this planet. Over twice as long if I remember correctly. The truth is that there is no symbiotic relationship between plants and animals. Plants us O2 in daylight hours during photosynthesis and release CO2 at night during respiration. Plants are independent of animals but not the other way around. They produce both gasses they use. That's why they appeared on this planet first and existed for a billion years on their own.

gnukid - 1-31-2021 at 07:43 PM

Interesting and partially true, though, ignores the impactful symbiotic relationship of plants and animals that vastly increases diversity. Petroleum is an output of earth, certainly the earth is largely dependent on the Sun for energy. The Sun is 1.3 millions larger than the earth and is it's greatest source of test and energy.

Lobsterman - 2-1-2021 at 03:37 PM

Thanks Gnukid for having the balls to express your views on a subject that is counter to the views of BN "resident experts" on everything. Why these individuals have to disrespect ones opinion, call one nasty names and offer unsubstantiated lies about ones profession or person only shows their close-mindedness and lack of moral integrity. Joe taught them well how to communicate on this site as a bully and get away with it.

Hopefully, someday these site members will accept another's opinion as just that an opinion based on ones knowledge and life experiences without being called names and trolled. Until that happens this site will continue to be a bully's platform to express their one-sided view of an argument thus keeping one with an opposing opinion from expressing it.

Thanks again Gnukid for your knowledge of the subject and offering it here.

mtgoat666 - 2-2-2021 at 09:05 PM

In the near future, sales of IC-engine vehicles will begin declining, and as auto makers experience declining sales, the auto makers will stop developing new IC engine vehicles, new model updates each year.
Some of you have in past been excited seeing new models coming out each year,... within the decade, expect to see companies like Ford stop R&

for IC engines.
Ford won’t be spending time and $$developing new F-150 model years if F-150 IC engine sales growth is negative year over year.
Any vehicle with declining sales gets canceled after a few years of continuous declining sales.

PaulW - 2-3-2021 at 08:33 AM

How true - ICs are doomed. Companies doing the conversion first will win the business. Its is all about timing and money.

I see the transition happening now. First they go to light duty hybrids then to plug in hybrids then to full EVs.
It appears that GM is ahead of others and Ford may not survive due to very slow implementation and continued development of their ICs. The import brands are even slower. Some are ignoring the change, of course with exceptions that are already selling full EVs although in low volume and high prices.

gnukid - 2-3-2021 at 04:09 PM

Problems with electric cars

Electric cars will fail
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1114758_electric-cars-w...

Electric vehicles as an example of a market failure
https://phys.org/news/2019-03-electric-vehicles-failure.html

Why Electric Cars Will Fail...and Have Already Triumphed
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-electr...

Tesla's 2020 Profit Didn't Come From Selling Cars, But Regulatory Credits
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-s-2020-profit-didn-...

Morgan Stanley is wrong — electric cars aren’t going to take over
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-morgan-stanley-wrong-abo...

The Clock Is Ticking On Electric Car Batteries - And How Long They Will Last
https://www.forbes.com/sites/billroberson/2019/09/30/the-clo...

Electric cars and plug-in hybrids are a fail
https://www.zdnet.com/article/electric-cars-and-plug-in-hybr...

AAA confirms what Tesla, BMW, Nissan electric car owners suspected — cold weather saps EV range. Even turning on the car drains power
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/aaa-confirms-what-tesla-bmw-...

Extreme weather is sucking the life from your electric car
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/10/18217041/electric-car-ev-...

Why do electric cars suck in cold weather?
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/173256-why-do-electric-c...

AKgringo - 2-3-2021 at 04:53 PM

I just heard part of a parody song based on Janis Joplin's prayer..........Oh Lord, won't you buy me, a cyber truck. My friends all drive diesels, and I must make amends!

Hook - 2-3-2021 at 05:35 PM

WTF does this have to do with Baja..........or Mexico?

The Goat channeling JJJ. :rolleyes:

Political agenda is their life. Sad.

[Edited on 2-4-2021 by Hook]

Skipjack Joe - 2-3-2021 at 06:40 PM

Found this online which I thought fit this thread:

145798570_10225324501037943_4442759188001933682_n.jpg - 17kB

[Edited on 2-4-2021 by Skipjack Joe]

mtgoat666 - 2-3-2021 at 06:55 PM

Nice thing about e-vehicles like Tesla is they have e-motors with no clunky gears in a transmission, Teslas got no dinosaur transmissions, no dinosaur crankshafts, far fewer mechanical parts and far fewer things that break.

Shift away, shifting is for dinosaurs!

Salsa - 2-8-2021 at 12:05 PM

Not to stir up any more BS, but,,,

Where does the juice to fill up the batteries come from ???

Don
BSEE

mtgoat666 - 2-8-2021 at 12:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Salsa

Not to stir up any more BS, but,,,

Where does the juice to fill up the batteries come from ???

Don
BSEE

2019 electric generation data for California utilities:
32% renewable
34% natural gas
9% nuclear
14% hydro

California's non-carbon dioxide emitting electric generation categories (nuclear, large hydroelectric, and renewables) accounted for 57 percent of its generation

Salsa - 2-16-2021 at 09:07 PM

And all of this time they were telling me that nuclear was BADDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don

RFClark - 2-17-2021 at 07:01 AM

I’m coming to this discussion late. What follows is some history to show that I’ve actually done some of this!

I’ve driven IC cars, trucks, boats and planes since I was 15 1/2! I’ve also lived off the grid a lot since the mid ‘70s. First with gasoline generators as the only source of electricity, then with propane as the source of backup electricity. Where we lived 2 years ago is still running on a big SCE diesel generator generator since the fires last year!

Currently we have a US grade electric house (12 years) in Mexico south of San Felipe that is primarily solar electric. We started out here with an RV gas generator 30 years ago. Solar Electric has come along way in the last 20 years.

Currently we are using li ion batteries for our primary electrical storage. All are recycled from other uses mostly cars. We still have a backup propane generator and 300 gal of propane. The house uses about 10KW of electricity per day this time of year. Heating is propane because the propane tank holds about 2.5MW of heat energy in the same space as 20KW of il ion batteries! That’s 100 times the storage density and propane never goes bad like batteries or gasoline!

Our water truck is a propane powered 1964 Dodge 4x4, we refill the tank about once a year! It only uses electricity to start and run the transistor ignition. I can maintain it myself, but can’t make the parts or fuel.

I built and can maintain the house, but can’t make the spare parts for that either. “Do you have a spare means that I probably can’t fix this one” comes to mind here!

On to electric cars! We have a Spark EV ($7K used) up in the states. It goes about 80 miles on 16KW of batteries. I can make electricity to charge it. I can’t make gas or propane! Our runabout truck in Mexico gets 40Mpg. On a full tank and two Jeep cans it will drive to La Paz! I still can’t make the gas! Electric will replace gas/propane for 75% of all driving over the next 20 yeas. It’s all about energy storage density!

The point is without spare parts and fuel eventually everything technical will stop working! It’s just a matter of when! The Spark EV will likely operate until the tires wear out (I can’t make those either!) I’d guess that’s about 4 years after all the gas and propane runs out!

I can’t make small arms or ammunition either so I keep lots in stock in the states! (Shelf life about 25 years)

Arguing about which sort of magic is better is stupid and if you can’t make it, it’s Magic!

At this point it’s necessary to mention “Murphy”! The quick green fix of the environment just met Murphy! 300 or in the Dakotas 1200 gals of propane(yes, you need to heat propane to use it in really cold weather!) is a real comfort when things go to chit! Make sure that your heater is non-electric with a gas pilot though!

Murphy is God’s appointed enforcer! Everything that can go wrong, will go wrong just when it will hurt you the most! Think snow on the Gulf of Mexico here!

white whale - 2-17-2021 at 12:50 PM

What a great thread.

For the OP though, whenever I see a statement of X will happen past three years from the present a large grain of salt is required. Gov'ts are famous for those plans, and its always a nice number , never 2044 or 61. Just 5's and zeros. Back of the napkin plans as they are referred to. ICE dead? No. Fading away slowly, definitely.
Much as I hate sending money to Saudi and ilk to use slaves to build malls in the desert they will make sure the ICE fade takes a long time.

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode at the local dump, all the VHS tapes in a huge pile and next to was a sign "reserved for DVD's". Maybe EV is just a stop gap the early tech adopters are having fun with now and some other technology , cheaper, faster safer etc... is coming to the market next.

Like everything else in the world, you vote with your wallet.

RFClark - 2-17-2021 at 01:12 PM

“ Like everything else in the world, you vote with your wallet.”

Yes, currently our EV turns a nice profit on the mileage deduction. That said a Hydrogen economy is probably the general direction to head towards. IC engines do run on hydrogen, but have problems with water getting into the oil! Fuel cells work too and you can make hydrogen at home! Super capacitors have made great progress and could replace batteries in some applications.

That said Futurists have a poor track record! Ridley Scott not Sid Mead designed the police cruisers in “Blade Runner”! Ridley saw the first cruiser and said “lots more lights”! Seen a police car lately? He also said “lots more neon” (no LED lights back then!) been to Vegas lately?

PaulW - 2-17-2021 at 02:50 PM

Of course there are not enough batteries to satisfy the GM plan let alone the industry plan. GM admits that a battery breakthrough must happen many years before they reach meaningful production rate.
Yes, new technology is in study and prototypes have been built. It is all about getting away from the limited supply of lithium to more common elements.
Hydrogen is another way that has no infrastructure planned.

My solution is backup fossil fuel which they have recently discovered for the electrical grid. Green energy does not work when it is cold and snowy when the power is needed the most.
Probably hybrid will have to do rather than EVs.

John Harper - 2-17-2021 at 03:06 PM