BajaNomad

Gangster tactics employed by a landlord in El Socorro

d-train - 1-31-2021 at 01:56 PM

This is the same community (also known as El Socorrito) where an American couple was murdered in August 2020. In a creepy twist, one of the killers (now in custody and part of the family of the land owners) broke into our house and stole a few things, including a cooler the same night he stabbed the American couple in their bed. If it wasn’t for covid problems, I would have been there, at that exact time, with my wife and kids during the month of August.

In the 1980s, my family leased this land that had a tiny, rundown shack. We remodeled it and doubled its size. Then, literally with bricks made from the sand right there, we constructed a beautiful home. My aunt, an artist and a gardener, spent every day for over 2 decades turning the desert around the homes into beautiful oasis. We hired all locals, always. The results are stunning. And therein, may ultimately be the problem. The property is one of the nicest for miles and miles.

The original land owners (whom we signed the lease with and were lovely people) have passed. One of their daughters now runs the community; lets call her the landlady. Her boyfriend (presumably at the encouragement of her) and his accomplices recently severed the electricity disabling the security cameras, broke into our homes, looted what they wanted, changed the locks, and are now occupying the property. Multiple attempts to access the property have failed in the face of an overwhelming and aggressive stance by the land lady, her boyfriend, and their accomplices.

Why is this happening? During failed lease renewal discussions over many years, one evening, while sitting on veranda, overlooking the ocean, watching the sunset, the landlady told my wife and I, quite precisely, “Mi padre me prometio esta casa. Tu casa pronto sera mia.” (My father promised this house to me. Soon it will be mine.) This moment is seared in my memory. My wife and I are fluent in Spanish. There was no misinterpretation.

We currently have good legal representation, a well considered legal strategy, plus solid documentation (contracts and more with inescapable clauses). We anticipate taking back possession of the property very soon with assistance of local authorities.

The obvious question is, “Then what?”

Certainly I need someone living at property full time. Someone with the temperment to handle the unknowns of the months ahead. Plus manage some handymen types to fix the damage done the property in the last week. Does that person exist? If so, by divine providence or a DM to me, show yourself :-)
If not, my options are limited.

I’m leaving out so many other details, but I need to stop typing now. Fingers done…

Further Reading on this Topic:
This thread looking for a housesitter for my family’s house reference above.
BajaNomad thread

This thread on Talk Baja.
Thread on Talk Baja facebook

[Edited on 1-31-2021 by d-train]

[Edited on 2-1-2021 by d-train]

mtgoat666 - 1-31-2021 at 08:15 PM

Sounds like the entire neighborhood is threatened by evil people, and it is hard to run the people out of town when they own the land and are a gang that outnumbers the resistance,... bad situation.

If the justice system won’t control evil, then vigilante justice may be the answer.

The problem with Mexico is the government and justice system are disfunctional and do not provide for stable and reliable economic system.

Can it be fought in the courts? Maybe, but will take years... Sometimes you just need to walk away, or seek justice/vengeance in non traditional ways.



BajaBlanca - 1-31-2021 at 08:31 PM

Honestly, my gut tells me you should walk away, as awful as difficult as tremendously sad as that is.

We have a good friend who leased land in Mulege and also lost all his investment in his house. Exact same scenario: parents died, kids took over. They doubled the rent and he walked away.

advrider - 1-31-2021 at 08:35 PM

Tough situation. Not sure I would ever feel safe living back in the house with any of these people around. If I had to walk away from the house I can say there would be nothing left for them to enjoy but a big pile of nothing, that's for sure.... Hope it works out some how some way.

surabi - 1-31-2021 at 09:37 PM

I would hardly characterize this as gangster tactics. Maybe her father did promise the land to her.

Why would you build a house on leased land? It would never enter my mind to build on a piece of property I didn't legally own. Sorry, but that's just foolish.

willardguy - 1-31-2021 at 11:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
I would hardly characterize this as gangster tactics. Maybe her father did promise the land to her.

Why would you build a house on leased land? It would never enter my mind to build on a piece of property I didn't legally own. Sorry, but that's just foolish.


well I would, and I did, along with dozen's, hundreds, thousands of others that just want a simple vacation home or a full time place. I and many others did with nothing but a handshake from the property owner. just remember the the rule don't invest more than you're willing to walk away from.....guess we're all fools huh?:rolleyes:

mtgoat666 - 2-1-2021 at 12:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi  
I would hardly characterize this as gangster tactics. Maybe her father did promise the land to her.

Why would you build a house on leased land? It would never enter my mind to build on a piece of property I didn't legally own. Sorry, but that's just foolish.


Thugs. Gangsters. Gang. Totally.

pacificobob - 2-1-2021 at 07:08 AM

i doubt that anyone who builds on leased land lacks an awareness that rent usually increases over time. unless you are living in a declining area.
i think many keep the investment small enough to walk away from.

BajaTed - 2-1-2021 at 07:32 AM

Tell the b-tch your gonna burn the place to the ground or take it apart brick by brick. Say the lease said to leave the land the way you found it. I've heard of this "back @ you" approach in other lease disputes such as yours. Realize in the end they want your place for themselves.

d-train - 2-1-2021 at 09:27 AM

I've been on a internet binge over the weekend, posting to forums and putting a spotlight on this situation. I'm currently in Baja navigating the legal system, following the lead of my attorney, well except for some rogue moves.:cool:

Honestly it's a bit lonely, this struggle right now. The rest of my life is on hold while I process this. I sincerely appreciate all your comments. I lay awake most nights playing out every scenario in my head from walking away on one hand, to tearing it down on the other, and everything in between. My gut feeling tells me I have to make the final decision in the next few days. I'll let you know the outcome.

BajaMama - 2-1-2021 at 09:34 AM

This is horrible to hear, sounds like a no-win since she is already living in the home you built on the leased land.

Out of curiosity, does a Fideicomiso protect from this type of theft?

Mulege Canuck - 2-1-2021 at 10:35 AM

This is a common problem. I would walk away. Before you do that, call any Mexican friends you have and strip everything out of the house of value and give it to them. A similar situation occurred in Mulege a few years back and that is what happened there. That development still looks like a ghetto as no one will invest there.

No matter what anyone says, nothing is a stable investment in Mexico. Having said that, I love it in Mulege and I have a little shack there. However I spent very little on it and I am prepared to walk away if I had to. It might be more difficult for you to do if you have invested a lot of money, but I would still recommend it.

I am sorry about what happened to you.

motoged - 2-1-2021 at 10:51 AM

Are people currently residing in the house full time? If so, is the house vacant for short periods of time? How close are other houses/people to your building?

Oh.....and how much is 2 gallons of gas and a Bic?

BajaTed - 2-1-2021 at 11:19 AM

Somehow the fear of god needs to be brought to the table.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/stor...


del mar - 2-1-2021 at 11:45 AM

"It is easy To Murder in Mexico without ever setting a foot in jail.

Or at least that’s what the numbers say: for every 100 cases of murder, only 5 result in a prison sentence for a perpetrator."

be thankful for all the wonderful years and memories and get the hell out of there!

LancairDriver - 2-1-2021 at 01:13 PM

Hiring an attorney in Mexico usually only adds to your expense and stress level and goes nowhere. Hire a local with an excavator to level the house and let him have anything he can salvage from the house. Tell him you are clearing the lot to build a nicer house. Don’t forget to send the landlady Christmas greetings every year.

RocketJSquirrel - 2-1-2021 at 01:19 PM

Leased land is leased land. If the owner of land does not wish to extend the lease, you really have no recourse.

Talking tough and threatening people who might kill you, as suggested above, doesn't seem wise.

If you don't own the land, you don't own it. I too, don't own the land my (figuratively speaking!) house is on. But I quite understand that things can easily change and at some point I may need to move on. I have made sure my potential "widow" owns property in the States that will provide for her if things go bad.

Fighting it out will only enrich the lawyer (Hell, they don't mind!) and possibly endanger you and your family.

A lease is a lease. You can control the land until it expires (maybe). But under your current circumstances, I am not sure I would stay except to see if a bluff of some sort might work. I would not want to have to wonder what that strange noise in the night is. Or... fine for me, but I don't want my wife to have to worry about it. I have a responsibility to provide a safe and comfortable situation for her. Manly d*ck-banging on a table to prove my manhood, thinking it may scare away these thugs, does not provide that.

RocketJSquirrel - 2-1-2021 at 01:24 PM

The OP also wrote that he had: "contracts and more with inescapable clauses"

Land leases expire. There is no escape from that issue.

bajaric - 2-1-2021 at 01:29 PM

To the OP, what do you hope to get out of this? Do you really want a vacation home there?

Looking at the FB post, it seems that if the landlord decides not to renew the lease they must provide some sort of compensation for the tenant improvements. I would go through the motions of filing the court documents, though the saying "Getting blood out of a stone" comes to mind, as well as making enemies of some apparently not so nice people.

Soon, the daughter will not have any cash flow. Who would want to lease a lot there, other than people with trailers who can take their homes with them, unlike you. Maybe someday cooler heads will prevail and you might get another lease on you little piece of paradise.

Or, watch it go up in flames in the rear view mirror --

mtgoat666 - 2-1-2021 at 01:36 PM

The current landlord has revealed their true evil nature, and they are not going away. You will have to leave this property for your own peace of mind. But you should first regain possession, then bulldoze or burn the place to the ground on first day of repossession.
The evil landlord must be prevented from profiting from crime.

Even if you regain control of property, the evil family will still be there, lurking and plotting....

RocketJSquirrel - 2-1-2021 at 02:01 PM

They might also come and shoot you while you are burning it down. What do you think purposefully provoking them is going to solve?

Better to quietly put quickset cement in all the drains and toilets. I am sure there are many quiet ways to find a bit of satisfaction without putting a target on your or your spouse's backs.

d-train - 2-1-2021 at 02:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
Are people currently residing in the house full time? If so, is the house vacant for short periods of time? How close are other houses/people to your building?


I do have neighbors close by, but all of them, out of fear of the land lady and her boyfriend, tell me they don't want to be involved and won't provide any info. Despite that I've managed to get reliable information on daily activities at the property through other methods that don't involve compromising my neighbors.

There is one road in/out of the ranch and they have someone stationed there preventing me from getting through. They prevented me plus uniformed police officers from getting through last week by blocking the road with vehicles. I was able to sneak in early one morning though and make a quick observation before I was discovered and chased off the property. There was a light in the house and movements. The electricity was cut so maybe whoever is there is using a lantern or flashlight. There's was line out front with laundry drying. There's a lot people regularly coming and going at the house over the last couple weeks.

Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  
To the OP, what do you hope to get out of this? Do you really want a vacation home there?



What I hope to get out of this? I've been staring at the ocean for the last few days pondering that question. Do I really want a vacation home there? That's easy. After this, not anymore.

[Edited on 2-1-2021 by d-train]

RocketJSquirrel - 2-1-2021 at 03:11 PM

I am sure it is all a huge disappointment. Use common sense and don't endanger your wife or yourself trying to win something that's probably not winnable.

Better to cut your losses.

And when it is all over, don't let bitterness or anger spoil your later years.

BajaRun - 2-1-2021 at 04:07 PM

Sometimes you need to know when to walk away. Sounds like the time is near.

Bummer for sure, however, I'm sure you always knew in the back of your mind that this time could possibly come.

JZ - 2-1-2021 at 04:13 PM

Screw those evil ppl. Hire someone to give them a taste of their own medicine.

Lots of ppl willing to do that.

mikeymarlin - 2-1-2021 at 05:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ  
Screw those evil ppl. Hire someone to give them a taste of their own medicine.

Lots of ppl willing to do that.


hey-J Z right on !!! I agree ---- revenge-it's what for dinner]

torch - 2-1-2021 at 06:12 PM

well for what its worth - I had a neighbor that just up and left his place of 20+ years with these parting thoughts.(after his lease was raised 5x on the spot) - Now i can go explore the spots i know could be working but if i still had this place would just stay put and surf here. he actually gave me the peace within should that ever happen to me to love the memories and to make new ones somewhere else.

advrider - 2-1-2021 at 06:25 PM

Anything you do is not worth loosing your life over. It would be nice if you could get your belongings out but if you can't it's just stuff.

With that said I would not be able to leave her anything she could use, you have the right to the building and improvements. If I couldn't do it with help of the law then I would do it without.

As the squirrel said, I would not feel like it's a safe place for the family now, you never know what message they might be willing to send to a family member when you aren't home. Anything I did would be with the family state side.

I deal with criminals every day, don't under estimate the little value they put on life or what meth will allow/make people do. Guessing by the erratic behavior I would say there might be some drug use involved? Be safe and good luck.

BajaNomad - 2-1-2021 at 07:22 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/01/world/americans-find-thei...

http://davidbeyer.info/index.php/2018/07/14/another-property...

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-oct-27-mn-42793...

advrider - 2-1-2021 at 09:04 PM

I would think the long term income would be better then taking someone's house. Why wouldn't they want to renegotiate the terms and use the money for their own house? Maybe it's the instant gratification and short attention span? I would think at some point people will not buy in that area and the lease money will dry up. Who wants to live in an area where the land owner kicks in the door and take your house?

mtgoat666 - 2-1-2021 at 09:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by advrider  
I would think the long term income would be better then taking someone's house. Why wouldn't they want to renegotiate the terms and use the money for their own house? Maybe it's the instant gratification and short attention span? I would think at some point people will not buy in that area and the lease money will dry up. Who wants to live in an area where the land owner kicks in the door and take your house?



What makes you think the evil landlord family is smarter than a box of rocks and capable of making reasoned decisions?

caj13 - 2-2-2021 at 06:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy  
author=surabi]

Why would you build a house on leased land? It would never enter my mind to build on a piece of property I didn't legally own. Sorry, but that's just foolish.
willard guy responds
well I would, and I did, along with dozen's, hundreds, thousands of others that just want a simple vacation home or a full time place. I and many others did with nothing but a handshake from the property owner. just remember the the rule don't invest more than you're willing to walk away from.....guess we're all fools huh?:rolleyes:


No Willard guy, - Not fools - Not yet, but who knows in 5 - 10 years if that statement holds true - I hope so, for you and your families sake. But this scenario does not always turn out rosy and beautiful, as we are seeing examples of that right now. everyone wants to believe they did their homework, chose their "landlords" wisely. but as things change, sometimes it ends up no bueno!

[Edited on 2-2-2021 by caj13]

[Edited on 2-2-2021 by caj13]

ch47pilot - 2-2-2021 at 07:03 AM

Years ago I made the mistake of building on Ejido land with verbal assurances of a long term lease. Well the Ejido decided to kick everyone out in order to sell the land to a developer. Lesson learned, six years later the land sits unsold. Bought a home with a Fidei Comiso (annual trust) feeling much better with that then leasing from any private party.

LancairDriver - 2-2-2021 at 10:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by advrider  
I would think the long term income would be better then taking someone's house. Why wouldn't they want to renegotiate the terms and use the money for their own house? Maybe it's the instant gratification and short attention span? I would think at some point people will not buy in that area and the lease money will dry up. Who wants to live in an area where the land owner kicks in the door and take your house?



What makes you think the evil landlord family is smarter than a box of rocks and capable of making reasoned decisions?



X2

advrider - 2-2-2021 at 11:17 AM

d-train, did you check with the attorney that posted on here about helping people out? This is his user name and he posted last week. (Rafael Solórzano) Worth seeing what his opinion is.

pacificobob - 2-2-2021 at 01:45 PM

lots of conclusions here based on very few data points.
but heck, don't let that stop you.

d-train - 2-2-2021 at 02:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by advrider  
d-train, did you check with the attorney that posted on here about helping people out? This is his user name and he posted last week. (Rafael Solórzano) Worth seeing what his opinion is.


Yes, he is working on this case along with a local attorney. Feeling like I'm in good hands with them. It's hard to ignore the appeal of, how shall I say... a dramatic conclusion... to these events, I'm taking the safe and smart approach at the present time.

LancairDriver - 2-2-2021 at 04:05 PM

I remember a case in the US where a disgruntled contractor got screwed on a upscale home he built and never was paid for. He put a large propane bottle in the crawl space under the house before it was occupied and opened the valve with a timer set at sufficient time to spark the gas cloud after he was long gone. Blew the house right off the foundation. It was a total loss. Although he was a prime suspect he never was charged.

JC43 - 2-2-2021 at 07:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
The current landlord has revealed their true evil nature, and they are not going away. You will have to leave this property for your own peace of mind. But you should first regain possession, then bulldoze or burn the place to the ground on first day of repossession.
The evil landlord must be prevented from profiting from crime.

Even if you regain control of property, the evil family will still be there, lurking and plotting....


Pretty much the same can happen in the U.S. No doubt. If you lease land, the land is not yours. Period. Building on land which you do not own is just stupid. Rent what`s in existence, but do not build anything to it. Do it in the U.S. you will be chased off in no time. Same happens in Mexico! Why wondering??? You call it gangster tactics? Or just above: Evil Nature? There are the same amount of gangsters - with the same reason to act - inside the U.S.


[Edited on 2-3-2021 by JC43]

mtgoat666 - 2-2-2021 at 08:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
The current landlord has revealed their true evil nature, and they are not going away. You will have to leave this property for your own peace of mind. But you should first regain possession, then bulldoze or burn the place to the ground on first day of repossession.
The evil landlord must be prevented from profiting from crime.

Even if you regain control of property, the evil family will still be there, lurking and plotting....


Pretty much the same can happen in the U.S. No doubt. If you lease land, the land is not yours. Period. Building on land which you do not own is just stupid. Rent what`s in existence, but do not build anything to it. Do it in the U.S. you will be chased off in no time. Same happens in Mexico! Why wondering???


Lots of successful leased property in USA. Here in socal much of irvine housing is on leased land, 99 year renewable leases. Mexico is totally outlaw territory compared to USA real estate system.

JC43 - 2-2-2021 at 09:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
The current landlord has revealed their true evil nature, and they are not going away. You will have to leave this property for your own peace of mind. But you should first regain possession, then bulldoze or burn the place to the ground on first day of repossession.
The evil landlord must be prevented from profiting from crime.

Even if you regain control of property, the evil family will still be there, lurking and plotting....


Pretty much the same can happen in the U.S. No doubt. If you lease land, the land is not yours. Period. Building on land which you do not own is just stupid. Rent what`s in existence, but do not build anything to it. Do it in the U.S. you will be chased off in no time. Same happens in Mexico! Why wondering???


Lots of successful leased property in USA. Here in socal much of irvine housing is on leased land, 99 year renewable leases. Mexico is totally outlaw territory compared to USA real estate system.


Mexico an outlaw territory talking Real Estate compared to the U.S? Well, build a house on leased land in the US and tell me the house is yours!?!?
The Reals Estate laws in MX are strict. Comparable to the U.S. version.
Just more easy::: If you have paid for the land - it yours. If not - it`s not.
What is the difference??? Building on land which you do not own remains the only thing it can be named: Stupid. 99 yrs of lease? What if the landlord is passing away (which might happen within 99 yrs) and the daughter is taking over? You don? t have a contract with her. Same story in MX and US. !

John Harper - 2-3-2021 at 05:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
The current landlord has revealed their true evil nature, and they are not going away. You will have to leave this property for your own peace of mind. But you should first regain possession, then bulldoze or burn the place to the ground on first day of repossession.
The evil landlord must be prevented from profiting from crime.

Even if you regain control of property, the evil family will still be there, lurking and plotting....


Pretty much the same can happen in the U.S. No doubt. If you lease land, the land is not yours. Period. Building on land which you do not own is just stupid. Rent what`s in existence, but do not build anything to it. Do it in the U.S. you will be chased off in no time. Same happens in Mexico! Why wondering???


Lots of successful leased property in USA. Here in socal much of irvine housing is on leased land, 99 year renewable leases. Mexico is totally outlaw territory compared to USA real estate system.


Mexico an outlaw territory talking Real Estate compared to the U.S? Well, build a house on leased land in the US and tell me the house is yours!?!?
The Reals Estate laws in MX are strict. Comparable to the U.S. version.
Just more easy::: If you have paid for the land - it yours. If not - it`s not.
What is the difference??? Building on land which you do not own remains the only thing it can be named: Stupid. 99 yrs of lease? What if the landlord is passing away (which might happen within 99 yrs) and the daughter is taking over? You don? t have a contract with her. Same story in MX and US. !


Same as if you are renting a house and the owner sells it. New owner, new conditions.

John

pacificobob - 2-3-2021 at 10:22 AM

X2 john. yup, its exactly that simple.

[Edited on 2-3-2021 by pacificobob]

bajarich - 2-3-2021 at 11:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
The current landlord has revealed their true evil nature, and they are not going away. You will have to leave this property for your own peace of mind. But you should first regain possession, then bulldoze or burn the place to the ground on first day of repossession.
The evil landlord must be prevented from profiting from crime.

Even if you regain control of property, the evil family will still be there, lurking and plotting....


Pretty much the same can happen in the U.S. No doubt. If you lease land, the land is not yours. Period. Building on land which you do not own is just stupid. Rent what`s in existence, but do not build anything to it. Do it in the U.S. you will be chased off in no time. Same happens in Mexico! Why wondering???


Lots of successful leased property in USA. Here in socal much of irvine housing is on leased land, 99 year renewable leases. Mexico is totally outlaw territory compared to USA real estate system.


Mexico an outlaw territory talking Real Estate compared to the U.S? Well, build a house on leased land in the US and tell me the house is yours!?!?
The Reals Estate laws in MX are strict. Comparable to the U.S. version.
Just more easy::: If you have paid for the land - it yours. If not - it`s not.
What is the difference??? Building on land which you do not own remains the only thing it can be named: Stupid. 99 yrs of lease? What if the landlord is passing away (which might happen within 99 yrs) and the daughter is taking over? You don? t have a contract with her. Same story in MX and US. !

bajarich - 2-3-2021 at 11:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajarich  
Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  






Just more easy::: If you have paid for the land - it yours. If not - it`s not.



Unless the person you bought it from didn't actually own it. That happens a lot.

pacificobob - 2-3-2021 at 03:16 PM

i have title insurance policy from an American company on my land in mexico.
hopefully i never have to use it. but id rather have it in hand should I ever need to defend ownership.

JC43 - 2-4-2021 at 12:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
i have title insurance policy from an American company on my land in mexico.
hopefully i never have to use it. but id rather have it in hand should I ever need to defend ownership.


A title insurance is certainly a good thing - no doubt. BUT: If you buy a property and the seller is not the owner.... well... that is the next stupid thing someone can do. Isn`t it essential that the buyer is asking for proper ownership? Question: Am I buying a car from someone and not asking for the title???
And now the "BUT"! There are plenty of properties in Mexico which have no title. And as a matter of fact: One do not need a title to be safe as an owner.
Example: Don Johnson (Hotel Serenidad) was involved in a lawsuit about a part of land on the right side of Highway one southbound from El Cacheno. Lawsuit lasted for about 20 years. End of the story: Court was asking him if he had paid for the land and can show the receipt. Answer was no. Land was gone! One thing is different in MX compared to the US. A title company like in the US does not exist in MX. Because there are lots of properties having no title. Not a problem that. One do not need a title. Having the receipt that you paid for the property and of course a sales contract is the main and only thing you need. Go to an Notary Public with the sales / purchasing contract and your receipt(!). Let him issue the legal ownership paper - this very long legal paper - and the property is yours. And no one can bother you about owning your property. If you have a title go to the katastry office and let your property being registered. No title company needed in MX.

JC43 - 2-4-2021 at 10:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Go to an Notary Public with the sales / purchasing contract and your receipt(!). Let him issue the legal ownership paper - this very long legal paper - and the property is yours.

JC, do you know how the notario determines whether the person that sold you the property, actually had the right to sell it?

Anybody can say they are the owner of a piece of land, sell it to you and issue a contract and receipt, but that does not mean that the notary has legal grounds to then declare you the (new) legal owner...


@lemcho: That is absolutely correct. The Notary public is NOT checking the legal transfer. That is up to the buyer!! The buyer needs to do his homework.
The Notary is doing his job (and more important in MX: Charging you - no matter what) It happened more than one time that somebody purchased land from a "seller" who was not the owner of the land.
i.e. it happened that somebody purchased land from a guy who claimed to be the owner. i.e. the son of the grandma of a family. But in MX it is mostly(not always) the oldest person in a family who is the owner. As properties are mostly inherited. That is legally valid. No legal process needed.
If something like that happens to you - you can only ask: How to get the chit back into the horse. Well if somebody is stupid enough not to do his homework - the chit belongs to him - legally !

[Edited on 2-4-2021 by JC43]

[Edited on 2-4-2021 by JC43]

JC43 - 2-4-2021 at 10:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
i have title insurance policy from an American company on my land in mexico.
hopefully i never have to use it. but id rather have it in hand should I ever need to defend ownership.


Do you know that e v e r y insurance company has a `claim denial agent` employed? His job is to intensively search for mistakes in the application form you submitted. Reason: Denial your (possible) claim. But if you do your homework upfront purchasing property in Mexico, you don`t need a title insurance. Buying a property is safe in Mexico if you know the law.

pacificobob - 2-4-2021 at 05:16 PM

why yes, i do know how the claims process works. someday i hope to achive the level of savvy enjoyed by the more enlightened consumers of real-estate services.
all these years i've been insuring my health, boats, aircraft , cars , life , pilot certificates and real estate. silly me.

[Edited on 2-5-2021 by pacificobob]

monoloco - 2-7-2021 at 10:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajarich  
Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
The current landlord has revealed their true evil nature, and they are not going away. You will have to leave this property for your own peace of mind. But you should first regain possession, then bulldoze or burn the place to the ground on first day of repossession.
The evil landlord must be prevented from profiting from crime.

Even if you regain control of property, the evil family will still be there, lurking and plotting....


Pretty much the same can happen in the U.S. No doubt. If you lease land, the land is not yours. Period. Building on land which you do not own is just stupid. Rent what`s in existence, but do not build anything to it. Do it in the U.S. you will be chased off in no time. Same happens in Mexico! Why wondering???


Lots of successful leased property in USA. Here in socal much of irvine housing is on leased land, 99 year renewable leases. Mexico is totally outlaw territory compared to USA real estate system.


Mexico an outlaw territory talking Real Estate compared to the U.S? Well, build a house on leased land in the US and tell me the house is yours!?!?
The Reals Estate laws in MX are strict. Comparable to the U.S. version.
Just more easy::: If you have paid for the land - it yours. If not - it`s not.
What is the difference??? Building on land which you do not own remains the only thing it can be named: Stupid. 99 yrs of lease? What if the landlord is passing away (which might happen within 99 yrs) and the daughter is taking over? You don? t have a contract with her. Same story in MX and US. !
Any lease in Mexico with a term longer than 9 years and 364 days is not legal or enforceable. After that period, it's completely up to the owner of the property whether or not to honor any longer term agreement.

JC43 - 2-7-2021 at 11:05 AM

Whatever is said in the headline and little bit later like " doze it down" etc. is as stupid as can be. Doze something down you do not own (and any building on a land belongs to the landlord - not necessarily to the one who build it) you better buy a good run-away-car! b/c the landlord will force you to be jailed faster than you can reach the border for safety. Summary: Whatever is declared as crime in this thread committed by the landlord is no crime at all. It is his legal right to do with his property whatever he wants. Every suggestion how to do revenge on the landlord is bullsh$$

RocketJSquirrel - 2-7-2021 at 03:24 PM

Totally agree with JC43. People who advise destructive action, certainly visible destructive action, are guiding you to doing a little prison time. Or possibly some nasty punitive retribution. Be careful. Lots of big talkers here.

People here need to get real. It's not unusual for people in the area where I live to get gunned down standing in their front yard for some perceived offense. Not really a problem if you are not in the drugs business or not trying to smart-ass your way through a real estate transaction gone bad.

But... as soon as you think you are going to out-smart out-tough these people, keep your distance from me. It's clear you are still a babe in the woods.

JC43 - 2-7-2021 at 04:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho  
Quote: Originally posted by JC43  
...any building on a land belongs to the landlord...

That's what I've always assumed but I see numerous cases where people "sell" structures built on leased land.

How does this work? What is it they're actually selling if they don't own it?

I'd be very curious to read D-Train's contract where the parties' rights are specified.

And you talk as if you know about Mexican Law-- is a lease contract binding on the heirs of a property?


That`s exactly the point. One has to know the lease contract in detail.
To your Q.: Of cause people are building on leased land. Then the contract says: The dirt belongs to the landlord - nothing else. The tenant is paying to use the dirt. Like in the Oasis or other RV places. BUT: The moment the landlord is selling or passing away the situation is like it is said earlier in this thread. Leasing a building one has no right to extend it. Period. The building belongs to the landlord. The building you are constructing on leased land belongs to you. The magic fact: You paid for!
On a leased building it is: You paid for to use it - nothing else.
What the heck is so darn difficult to understand the issue?

BajaRun - 2-8-2021 at 03:56 PM

I see many lots "For Sale" on leased land. For example a Campo in San Felipe has a few lots for sale but the seller does not actually own the land they just lease the lot and are selling the opportunity for someone else to lease the lot. I have a difficult time giving someone money to take over their lease. If the amount is reasonable to me I will do it and I am considering "Buying" a lot right now.

"Buyer Beware" and do your due diligence !!

JC43 - 2-8-2021 at 06:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRun  
I see many lots "For Sale" on leased land. For example a Campo in San Felipe has a few lots for sale but the seller does not actually own the land they just lease the lot and are selling the opportunity for someone else to lease the lot. I have a difficult time giving someone money to take over their lease. If the amount is reasonable to me I will do it and I am considering "Buying" a lot right now.

"Buyer Beware" and do your due diligence !!


I think it works this way: For Sale means, the owner of the building wants to sell his building. Which is only possible if the buyer is getting a new lease contract for the dirt/lot the house is built on. If the lot is empty (no dwelling on it) make your homework if the seller is the legal owner and can sell the lot legally.

DawnPatrol - 2-8-2021 at 08:18 PM

D-train;
what house is this? I am very familiar with Scorro/Socorrito as my Cousin Ed & Mary Shain lived just up and to the right of the landlord where the road splits. They have been long gone and sold to someone from AZ? Is this your house?
Also know a few others who live there and in Socoritto

Yes I have heard the stories of the daughter who took over after the parents died.....

d-train - 3-5-2021 at 02:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DawnPatrol  
D-train;
what house is this? I am very familiar with Scorro/Socorrito as my Cousin Ed & Mary Shain lived just up and to the right of the landlord where the road splits. They have been long gone and sold to someone from AZ? Is this your house?
Also know a few others who live there and in Socoritto

Yes I have heard the stories of the daughter who took over after the parents died.....


It's not Ed & Mary's place. The family that purchased that property are lovely people. Our place is the big, reddish, brick house with garden in front on the
north side of main dirt road as you get close to the beach. Photo below. More photos Flickr Photo Gallery - Our Baja Home.


[Edited on 3-5-2021 by d-train]

JC43 - 3-7-2021 at 12:34 PM

@ d-train. Can you explain which part of the house was in existence at the time you rented it. And which part did you ad to it?
The entire house looks like it was made in one piece.
But again. My question is not important for the issue of this thread.
Adding something to a house you don`t own is illegal. No reason to say "Gangster Tactics". Illegal even in the U.S.! YOU made the mistake - not the legal owner.

advrider - 3-9-2021 at 08:42 AM

Anything new with this situation? Any luck getting your personal property back?