BajaNomad - A True-Crime Story That Pits Polygamists Against Drug Lords

A True-Crime Story That Pits Polygamists Against Drug Lords

mtgoat666 - 6-29-2022 at 07:03 PM

A True-Crime Story That Pits Polygamists Against Drug Lords In her ninth book, “The Colony,” the veteran journalist Sally Denton takes readers across the border to a Mormon sect in Mexico.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/28/books/review/the-colony-s...

Our baja connection is nomad elinvestig8r, raised by Lebaron, and mama espinoza.

Truth is stranger than fiction!

What ever happened to Elvis?

surabi - 6-29-2022 at 09:49 PM

Those fundamentalist Mormons are disgusting. They aren't just polygamists, they marry off 16 year old girls to old men.

What's interesting is that Mormons were not originally polygamists- their founder, Joseph Smith, only added it to the religious doctrine later, when he had the hots for some 17 year old, when he was already married. (Whereupon his wife left him).

And the only reason mainstream Mormons officially stopped the practice of polygamy in the first place is that it was a requirement in order for Utah to acheive US statehood back in 1896.

RFClark - 6-29-2022 at 11:17 PM

Surabi,

Care to comment on the fact that the Prophet of Islam had several wives, one of which was rather young by anyone’s standards! Young wives are not just a Mormon thing, nor are arranged marriages!

David K - 6-30-2022 at 08:08 AM

We had a Nomad write much about his 'escape' from such a sect and how Mama Espinoza took him in.

BajaTed - 6-30-2022 at 08:18 AM

Lots of religions are DESIGNED to be disgusting when viewed thru the eyes of YOUR religion.

Please pass the coin dish.

Get it yet?

mtgoat666 - 6-30-2022 at 08:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

We had a Nomad write much about his 'escape' from such a sect and how Mama Espinoza took him in.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=28205&pag...

Paco Facullo - 6-30-2022 at 08:38 AM

Governments and Religions have a bad habit of changing what Mother Nature has deemed totally acceptable...........

JDCanuck - 6-30-2022 at 09:31 AM

One thing I will give the Mormons is their commitment to community works and supporting family activities. We could use more of that from individuals no matter what their religion is.

bajatrailrider - 6-30-2022 at 11:49 AM

I can only add this I worked for Mormons 21 years. Very nice people down to earth never a problem.

surabi - 6-30-2022 at 12:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Surabi,

Care to comment on the fact that the Prophet of Islam had several wives, one of which was rather young by anyone’s standards! Young wives are not just a Mormon thing, nor are arranged marriages!

Once again, you seem to think you need to explain the obvious to me, complete with exclamation marks.

FYI Muslims today do not consider polygamy to be acceptable, unlike fundamentalist Mormons.

There are plenty of things that used to be considered normal and acceptable which no longer are by the majority of humanity. Slavery, human sacrifice, child labor, killing off one's siblings to gain power to the throne, women being regarded as possessions, and not having the right to vote, etc.

Arranged marriages do not necessarily fall under this category, IMO, although most of us would consider the practice to be wholly unappealing. Unless it involves marrying off 13 year olds, if the parents truly love and care about their child's happiness, I doubt that arranged marriages result in any more miserable situations than when people are free to choose their partner. While I don't have any statistics, the divorce rate, and the domestic abuse rate in places where we get to choose, make it clear that we don't always choose wisely.

A friend of mine told me of a conversation she had with a woman from India who was her seatmate on a flight. Somehow they got to talking about arranged marriages, and the Indian woman said " Yes, you fall in love and then get married, we get married and then fall in love."
I'd venture a guess that the success rate and contentedness of both types of marriages is roughly equal.

mtgoat666 - 6-30-2022 at 12:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

Muslims today do not consider polygamy to be acceptable, unlike fundamentalist Mormons.

A fair amount of Muslims are polygamous in Africa, mid-east, sw Asia.

In my travels in Sw Asia, I several times I was told that society requires man to provide for his women, so many men don’t take multiple wives, as it get expensive to support additional wives.

I suppose if I had more money, I might consider taking on additional wives. Could be fun! :lol:

bajatrailrider - 6-30-2022 at 02:43 PM

:bounce:

best one yet

How much fun?

John M - 6-30-2022 at 04:20 PM

The author of the book Goat highlights quotes, in another one of her books, that the 17 year old was the first of Smith's 48 "celestial relationships."

John M

[Edited on 6-30-2022 by John M]

Marty Mateo - 7-1-2022 at 09:15 AM

Interesting read , didn’t know about the NXIVM cult connection but I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise. Another good read is Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer, good background on Mormonism

RFClark - 7-1-2022 at 04:41 PM

Surabi,

You need to get out more! Even the Catholic Church allows multiple wives in Africa and married clergy. Islam has multiple wives, rental wives and really under aged wives. Also honor killings and much more GFE.

Pick on someone else! Disclaimer I’m a Presbyterian and think Mormons are a little strange!

AKgringo - 7-1-2022 at 05:49 PM

Growing up in Grass Valley, I knew quite a few people who were Mormons. As far as I was concerned, it was just another church, and they were good people.

One of my Mormon high school friends was in the same draft call with me in January 1967. At the pre-induction center in Oakland, he stated that he was a contentious objector, and could not take up arms against an enemy.

The Army said "Fine, you can be a medic!" I talked to him a few years after we got out, and he saw a lot of action in Viet Nam treating and evacuating wounded soldiers.

He stayed in the emergency responder field when he was a civilian again and was pursuing advanced training through the GI bill.

windgrrl - 7-1-2022 at 06:00 PM

“The Sound of Gravel” by Ruth Wariner is a really good read that provides an in-depth personal account on this topic.

JDCanuck - 7-1-2022 at 06:25 PM

RFClark: Rental wives...an interesting concept closely resembling what we commonly see in practice under present laws. Is there an up front prepaid term and then you can renew the contract if both people agree with no further demands following the contractual term? Or 6 months minimum to achieve full marital ongoing rights similar to our system?

[Edited on 7-2-2022 by JDCanuck]

RFClark - 7-1-2022 at 07:09 PM

The rules are more complicated or can be but basically something along those lines but favoring the man.

Bajazly - 7-1-2022 at 10:10 PM

Like the old saying goes which I have always found true, if it floats, flies or flocks, it's cheaper to rent. :biggrin:

RFClark - 7-2-2022 at 06:31 AM

From an authoritative source!

“ Q7: Can a man engage in temporary marriage even if he already has four temporary/permanent wives?

Yes. The case of the temporarily married girl in this regard (as well as other issues such as waiting period) is similar to the case of the bondwomen in Islam. All Muslims do agree that one can marry an unlimited number of slave-girls. Islam did not limit it as it did with the permanent marriage.

The reason that Islam strictly limited the number of permanent wives into four, is that in permanent marriage there are obligations which do not exist in the other types of marriage, and these obligations can not be fulfilled if one goes more than four permanent marriages. For instance, the permanent couples are necessary to be sexually active, and man should sleep with his wife once each four nights; so how can he go further than four permanent wives?”

JDCanuck - 7-2-2022 at 07:47 AM

So if I read that right, the concept of multiple wives is primarily designed to enhance the population of the society that supports it, increasing the overall control that society has over the broader world. Is it working? The next stage of course would be to reduce the population in those societies competing for limited food and shelter based on their not being a member of the "desired society". Friends of ours who work in Africa with "undesirables" find this concept very much in play.

[Edited on 7-2-2022 by JDCanuck]

Ateo - 7-2-2022 at 08:37 AM

Similar horror in the Bible...............and most other religions.........and in all of us....

[Edited on 7-2-2022 by Ateo]

JDCanuck - 7-2-2022 at 09:13 AM

Ateo: I must have missed that in the Bible when I last read it...do you have a reference?
A quick search of summary of the law yielded this:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/summary_of_the_law

[Edited on 7-2-2022 by JDCanuck]

Ateo - 7-2-2022 at 01:27 PM

Hello JD......When I wrote "similar horrors" I was thinking very broadly about what the Bible teaches - like how to sell your daughter into sexual slavery (Exodus 21:1-11), how to purchase and treat your slaves (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT), and there's much, much more like how to rape, pillage, and murder. Surely a just and wonderful God worth us worshiping it can do better than the bible. :saint:

[Edited on 7-2-2022 by Ateo]

Hook - 7-2-2022 at 01:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Growing up in Grass Valley, I knew quite a few people who were Mormons. As far as I was concerned, it was just another church, and they were good people.

One of my Mormon high school friends was in the same draft call with me in January 1967. At the pre-induction center in Oakland, he stated that he was a contentious objector, and could not take up arms against an enemy.

The Army said "Fine, you can be a medic!" I talked to him a few years after we got out, and he saw a lot of action in Viet Nam treating and evacuating wounded soldiers.

He stayed in the emergency responder field when he was a civilian again and was pursuing advanced training through the GI bill.

Replace the religion with Seventh Day Adventist, and I have a good friend who has the exact same story, down to the emergency responder/L.E.O. career afterwards and the medic, during. He was from the Tahoe area. Believe he was also drafted in '67. He arrived in Vietnam in January, 1968. Two weeks later, the Tet Offensive started. He never thought he was going to get out of Vietnam alive, after that started. EDIT: He was SW of Saigon.

[Edited on 7-2-2022 by Hook]

mtgoat666 - 7-2-2022 at 03:11 PM

All religions are weird if not freaky when viewed from the outside. Some religions are freakier than others. The believers are brainwashed, so can’t see the weirdness of their own freak show.

[Edited on 7-2-2022 by mtgoat666]

Hook - 7-2-2022 at 03:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

All religions are weird if not freaky when viewed from the outside. Some religions are freakier than others. The believers are brainwashed, so can’t see the weirdness of their own freak show.

[Edited on 7-2-2022 by mtgoat666]

Boy, you got that right.

Especially that one that is in vogue right now. Ultra-liberalism. :lol:

Even San Francisco seems to be waking up to it. :smug:

THE NEW WOKE!!!!!

[Edited on 7-7-2022 by Hook]

Ateo - 7-2-2022 at 09:43 PM

Speaking of polygamy, there's a pretty insane and scary documentary about Warren Jeffs, a guy with like 67 wives who was raping young girls. A reminder about unchecked power and our tendency to follow crazy religious leaders.

RFClark - 7-2-2022 at 09:59 PM

I’d worry more about the 38% that are still following a senile old man!

Bajazly - 7-2-2022 at 10:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

I’d worry more about the 38% that are still following a senile old man!

Because the ones who were raped are female and they probably ask for it or deserved it right??? The things you worry about, or don't worry about are a little efed up.

[Edited on 7-3-2022 by Bajazly]

RFClark - 7-2-2022 at 10:58 PM

Goat,

Even living under your bed you should know that men get raped too! Most rape convictions should require mandatory castration!

elgatoloco - 7-4-2022 at 03:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

I’d worry more about the 38% that are still following a senile old man!

Are you concerned that if he were to lose a 100% proven valid election that he would act like a spoiled brat six year old and throw a tantrum and then encourage his followers to gather in DC and then rile them up and have them make an effort to deny the will of the people and tarnish the sanctity of our democracy and overrun the public servants in uniform who protect the nations capitol while causing death and destruction to illegally overturn said election, and then get away with it?

Is that your worry? It should be because its happened before.

Skipjack Joe - 7-4-2022 at 07:23 PM

Disgust is a common theme in most religions. Disgust is why members of religions purify themselves and have rules about what is moral and immoral. It's also what gives religious communities structure and bonds its members. Disgust is a foundation of all religious communities. In our current world it's what separates and bonds the two political parties here in the US. It probably goes back to our tribal beginnings. Although in the animal world its purpose is to maintain good health.

Lee - 7-4-2022 at 08:36 PM

Studied Comparative Religion sometime back as a prerequisite for a Jesuit university. ''Cargo cult'' sums up what I think of religion.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/1959-cargo-cults-...