BajaNomad - Moving from the US anytime soon?

On a recent trip down to the Mulege district a large increase in N Americans was obvious with new building and activity. The locals seem to enjoy the business but could this have the same effect as on the mainland?

To answer your question, YES.

But there is a recession on the horizon, and it may dissipate, but a good consequence of a recession would be a decrease in the number of people showing up with plans to build Airbnb condos and quad/jetski rental businesses, etc. There are also developer types who build houses and put expensive price tags on them knowing that newbie gringos will bite, which eventually raises all home prices, pricing out the locals.

I know growth means more money for the locals but growth through tourism can really eff up the vibe.

[Edited on 7-29-2022 by SFandH]

BajaBlanca - 7-29-2022 at 10:52 AM

It is a Catch-22. In many cities, tourism is vital to their existance.

SFandH - 7-29-2022 at 11:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca

It is a Catch-22. In many cities, tourism is vital to their existance.

AFTER dependence on tourist dollars develops it's tough to live without it.

Sorta like a destructive habit.

John Harper - 7-29-2022 at 01:24 PM

Pretty much the trajectory for most developing countries. Extractive industries and other natural resources first, then on to agriculture, and finally tourism and land development, and add a healthy dose of corruption along the way.

Sound familiar?

John

[Edited on 7-29-2022 by John Harper]

Don Pisto - 7-29-2022 at 01:57 PM

yes we drove up the price of everything, particularly housing

....sorry

surabi - 7-29-2022 at 03:11 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/column-generation-smug-american-expat...

And what effect would that be? You mean a higher standard of living for the average Mexican who benefits from the tourist and retirees? Ask a Mexican laborer if they would rather work for a foreigner or a wealthy Mexican and you will find out that they much prefer the foreigners who treat them with respect, and pay them well- the wealthy Mexicans treat them like peons and are cheap as hell. Mexico is a very classist and racist society and that has nothing to do with foreigners.

Articles like the one above are written from the point of view of privileged Mexicans in the upper strata of society. If they don't like sharing their neighborhoods and restaurants with foreigners, they have the option of moving to a less affluent area of their city where they will not have to encounter anyone other than working-class brown skinned people.

I can assure you that the laboring class welcomes tourism and foreigners.

I live in what used to be just a little fishing village on the west coast of the mainland. , now a destination beach town tourist trap. In the past, locals were either fisherman or cowboys. They lived in shacks or tiny, poorly built homes, drove old broken down vehicles, if they could afford a vehicle at all, and lived on beans and rice and tortillas apart from the food they could catch. Now they have nice homes, drive shiny new trucks, own restaurants, golf cart rental businesses, manage properties, etc, etc. They aren't complaining about what tourism and retirees have brought their way.

Granted there are some who resent the way their town has changed, but no one forced them to sell their land to gringoes, and it's hypocritical to bite the hand that feeds you.

[Edited on 7-29-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 7-29-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 7-29-2022 by surabi]

smug expats

Don Pisto - 7-30-2022 at 08:52 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/column-generation-smug-american-expat...

mtgoat666 - 7-30-2022 at 09:34 AM

I may leave usa if trump or desantis gets elected in 2024!
I cant abide fascism in the land of the free!

surabi - 7-30-2022 at 12:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto

That article makes some pretty sweeping generalizations regarding ex-pats. While there are certainly plenty like the author describes, there are also plenty who learn Spanish, are actively involved in the community in which they live, have Mexican friends, and live quite modest lifestyles, in modest homes. In my town, there are lots of younger, not retired expats who run businesses and are very much a part of the local Mexican community. Their kids go to school here, some were born here, they all speak fluent Spanish, and have just as many Mexican friends as gringo friends, if not more.

[Edited on 7-30-2022 by surabi]

Don Pisto - 7-30-2022 at 01:14 PM

https://news.yahoo.com/column-generation-smug-american-expat...

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto

yeah I agree, this isn't really my two cents it just popped up in my news feed this morning and seemed to fit in with the topic....I do believe its worse here an ear shot of san diego though!

RFClark - 7-30-2022 at 10:02 PM

The power centers in California are waking up to the fact that a lot of the tax base is leaving. The LA Times has written several 8th grade level rants about how Americans are creating English speaking ghettos in Mexico and pricing the locals out of the housing market. The LA Times has to my knowledge never written anything about Spanish speaking communities comprising a large portion of those living around downtown LA! It’s concern is touching (Not!)

surabi - 7-30-2022 at 11:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

I may leave usa if trump or desantis gets elected in 2024!
I cant abide fascism in the land of the free!

I read lots of people saying that back at the time of the 2016 election, but hardly any of them left. However, I think there will be more that will if that scenario happens and I have actually been suggesting to liberal Americans I know that they should be seriously researching other countries to move to before they find themselves in the midst of another N-zi Germany, which is the direction a lot of these extreme right, white wingers seem to want it to go. Now some of their politicians are even publicly saying good things about Hitler, like he's some kind of role model- it's unbelievable, really, and I don't put anything past them anymore. When they've come to the point of outlawing not only abortion, but access to contraception, proposing jail sentences for a woman having an abortion, it's not a giant step to concentration camps for all non-white, non-Christians. They already ripped immigrant toddlers from the arms of their parents and put them in cages. People who can do that are capable of any atrocity.

Terry28 - 7-31-2022 at 10:05 AM

I agree with everything you have said regarding this topic....

Don Pisto - 7-31-2022 at 10:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Terry28

I agree with everything you have said regarding this topic....

and great to see some knucklehead remarks removed! :coolup:

SFandH - 7-31-2022 at 10:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Don Pisto

https://news.yahoo.com/column-generation-smug-american-expat...

I just read this and am sorry I did. The author sounds like a real jerk. I think he is talking about retired Americans. Americans who for the most part have worked hard for 30 years or so and have enough money to retire and live comfortably, especially in Mexico. He seems to resent that. He has a hostile attitude, a chip on his shoulder. I bet if he sat down next to me at a bar I'd feel his bad vibe and leave. He would probably think I'm a "gabacho" an "ugly American" as he does the Americans he's talking about.

bajatrailrider - 7-31-2022 at 11:14 AM

Most of this is Americans retiring in big cities . All the Americans I know in small cities. Our Mexican friends could care less who lives here.

RFClark - 7-31-2022 at 11:35 AM

SF&H,

The general rant from the “Woke” is you can’t move to a foreign country like Mexico live in a community of others from your country, follow your customs and speak your own language because it’s not “fair” to the locals who probably will resent it!

In other words practice what the same “Woke” call multiculturalism when groups move to the US and do the same thing!

SFandH - 7-31-2022 at 12:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

I disagree with your opinion that woke culture has anything to do with the subject at hand. "Woke" means being alert to racial prejudice and discrimination. I try to be a "woke" person. I don't like the odd use of the word though.

In my opinion, the resentment the author expressed is due to the fact that the Americans moving to Mexico have enough money to live a trouble-free lifestyle. His beef is all about money. He mentions it in one way or another throughout the article. The fact that foreigners group together and maintain their culture is nothing new and understandable. As a "woke" person I have no objections.

Jeez, that's such a weird way to use that word.

[Edited on 7-31-2022 by SFandH]

willardguy - 7-31-2022 at 12:34 PM

I "woke" at 6am to watch the Hungarian Formula 1 race, 5 laps from the finish I fell back asleep

......do they still make TIVO's?

SFandH - 7-31-2022 at 12:44 PM

Exactly....here are the race highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF-w__uUs8c

surabi - 7-31-2022 at 04:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

SF&H,

The general rant from the “Woke” is you can’t move to a foreign country like Mexico live in a community of others from your country, follow your customs and speak your own language because it’s not “fair” to the locals who probably will resent it!

In other words practice what the same “Woke” call multiculturalism when groups move to the US and do the same thing!

??? I have never heard any "general rant" from whatever you are referring to as "the woke" like that. Quite to the contrary, the "woke", which refers to, as the poster after you said, not being discriminatory or predjudiced, advocate for muticulturalism and people being able to preserve their own customs and languages no matter where they may move to.

But that is not the same thing as refusing to integrate into the culture of your chosen place to retire, not showing respect for their customs, nor thinking it behooves you to learn the language. Those things are a matter of respect. It's actually a mystery to me why anyone would choose to not bother to learn the language of a country they move to, and therefore don't understand half of what's going on around them, need to hire facilitators for any official business, and can't communicate in any but superficial ways with the native people of their adopted country. It shows a lack of curiosity or interest in anything outside of their own small world.

SFandH - 7-31-2022 at 04:25 PM

It's actually a mystery to me why anyone would choose to not bother to learn the language of a country they move to, and therefore don't understand half of what's going on around them, need to hire facilitators for any official business, and can't communicate in any but superficial ways with the native people of their adopted country. It shows a lack of curiosity or interest in anything outside of their own small world.

You say it's a mystery and then explain it in the last sentence. If they're happy in their world, well, OK. So what?

RFClark - 7-31-2022 at 07:29 PM

Surabi,

I was referring to the “Woke” in the US who are complaining about Gringos and probably Canadians moving to Mexico and not integrating into Mexico. The same Woke in the US feel that people coming to the US don’t need to learn English or integrate into US culture! They write in US publications.

[Edited on 8-1-2022 by RFClark]

surabi - 7-31-2022 at 08:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Surabi,

I was referring to the “Woke” in the US who are complaining about Gringos and probably Canadians moving to Mexico and not integrating into Mexico. The same Woke in the US feel that people coming to the US don’t need to learn English or integrate into US culture! The write in US publications.

Well, I am not aware of those publications and articles but I doubt if the authors of them describe themselves as "woke". That term is assigned to them by people who disagree with them and want to denigrate them.

Personally, I think anyone who emigrates to another country should make the effort to learn the language and slowly integrate into the culture and society, and that doesn't mean they have to give up their own culture and traditions. Both can co-exist.

But you are talking about 2 quite different demographics of people. Middle class retirees who move to other countries have a lot of free time and are not destitute. They don't have families to raise any more, they don't have to go to work everyday. They are free to putter around with their interests and hobbies, go out to eat several times a week, socialize with their friends, go on excursions. Nothing wrong with that- most earned a comfortable retirement with a lifetime of hard work. The only really difficult things they may have to deal with are health issues. So they do have free time to take Spanish courses, learn things about the culture and participate in community projects and volunteer work. And many do. But many live insular lives, only hanging out with other gringoes, the only Mexicans they get to know are on a very superficial level, working as their maids or gardeners, or as shopkeepers. They can live in Mexico for 20 years and never manage to be able to speak or understand one simple Spanish sentence. I know a woman who has lived here for 15 years ask me, "What does 'porque' mean?"

Compare that to an immigrant mom with 3 kids in the US who works all day looking after someone else's children and scrubbing out their toilets and doing their shopping and preparing their dinner, after which she goes home and prepares dinner for her own family, does the laundry, tidies up the house and maybe has time to spend a little quality time with her kids before falling into bed exhausted. She doesn't exactly have time to take English classes, she'll learn English by osmosis from the kids and families she works for. It may be a slow process. And if she has to go attend an immigration hearing, she needs to understand clearly what is being said, she can't afford to hire a translator, so she needs a translator to be provided. To begrudge her that, when the work she does enables a privileged American family to go off to their high-powered jobs all day, so they can afford an up-scale lifestyle, seems mean-spirited.

[Edited on 8-1-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 8-1-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 8-1-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 8-1-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 8-1-2022 by surabi]

bajatrailrider - 8-1-2022 at 07:51 PM

Its time Doug close this then you all . Baja blow hards can chew the fat about some other useless stuff. Ahh for you Baja moma If Jaz dated and has black friends . You dont cut it now go back to your boring lives. Your all for enjoyment for all to laugh at cry babies.

LancairDriver - 8-2-2022 at 12:06 AM

When I started this thread, I simply asked if N American citizens living in Baja full or part time have opinions of Baja natives having negative or positive attitudes to increased foreign numbers driving prices up on housing and commodities. An article addressing this problem in Mexico City was given as an example.
How this question evolved into charges using the ever popular “racist” charges and the usual suspects rhetoric that never progressed beyond grade school name calling and petty insults is puzzling..Fortunately there are enough informed individuals that contribute their experiences livin in Baja that are appreciated.

pauldavidmena - 8-2-2022 at 04:52 AM

When I started this thread, I simply asked if N American citizens living in Baja full or part time have opinions of Baja natives having negative or positive attitudes to increased foreign numbers driving prices up on housing and commodities. An article addressing this problem in Mexico City was given as an example.
How this question evolved into charges using the ever popular “racist” charges and the usual suspects rhetoric that never progressed beyond grade school name calling and petty insults is puzzling..Fortunately there are enough informed individuals that contribute their experiences livin in Baja that are appreciated.

I had subscribed to this topic because the original post was very relevant to me. It didn't take long before it spiraled into a thread about the viability of a human fetus or what constitutes a racist. I don't know how we got here, but it's definitely not the destination.

Paco Facullo - 8-2-2022 at 08:13 AM

Bottom line,, most people are self-centered idiots that always "think" they are in the right............

They cannot and will not, EVER consider anyone else's way of thinking or views.

An old saying comes to mind ....

When you're young, your hips are narrow and your mind is broad

When most get old, it reverses ...

One caveat ; I'm NOT saying everyone here is an idiot,,, but IF it gets you a little offended, then chances are you NOT an idiot.....

Most idiots never realize they are idiots...

[Edited on 8-2-2022 by Paco Facullo]

bajatrailrider - 8-4-2022 at 09:10 AM

MOVING FROM US ANYTIME SOON. Wondering Surabi dobie do what Abortion has to do with this ? Ahh and dont forget the rest of nut cases here

surabi - 8-4-2022 at 10:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider

MOVING FROM US ANYTIME SOON. Wondering Surabi dobie do what Abortion has to do with this ? Ahh and dont forget the rest of nut cases here

And why exactly did you pick me out of the crowd to chastize for going off topic?
If you read back over this thread from the beginning, you will see that I wasn't the one who started talking about these things, nor the only one who commented on them. As per usual, JZ felt he needed to jump in on the the first page with his long list of political and social grievances, full of his prejudice, presented as fact.
If you feel it necessary to call out others for derailing a thread, you might start with the original perpetrators.

[Edited on 8-4-2022 by surabi]

pauldavidmena - 8-4-2022 at 10:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider

MOVING FROM US ANYTIME SOON. Wondering Surabi dobie do what Abortion has to do with this ? Ahh and dont forget the rest of nut cases here

I'd go as far as to say that the question of legal abortion access is pertinent to someone who is trying to determine whether or not a destination has stricter laws than the U.S. According to Wikipedia abortion is no longer a crime in Mexico, but it's only available in Mexico City and 8 states (including BC and BCS), and only during the first 12 weeks.

SFandH - 8-4-2022 at 11:05 AM

7 July:

https://www.borderreport.com/news/abortion-clinic-opens-near...

"TIJUANA (Border Report) — A new abortion clinic has opened its doors in Tijuana not too far from the border, making it easily accessible to American women seeking to terminate their pregnancies.

The facility, located in Tijuana’s popular Zona Río, will be operated by the Marie Stopes International Foundation, which runs clinics in 37 countries."

[Edited on 8-4-2022 by SFandH]

bajatrailrider - 8-4-2022 at 12:56 PM

You all argue about what color TP to use . All over 85 stuck in rocking chair nut cases on this site. Beat any and all web sites nobody can post anything here. Without nut cases get a life dont tell me I dont have to read it. Well I dont I just show to people to see nut cases. You all do keep people entertained at same time wondering . WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE>

mtgoat666 - 8-4-2022 at 04:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bajatrailrider

You all argue about what color TP to use . All over 85 stuck in rocking chair nut cases on this site. Beat any and all web sites nobody can post anything here. Without nut cases get a life dont tell me I dont have to read it. Well I dont I just show to people to see nut cases. You all do keep people entertained at same time wondering . WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE>

The pot calling the kettle black, eh?

willardguy - 8-5-2022 at 12:07 AM

hey driver don't clam up on me just yet.....anyone notice driver's source for this juicy thread? sputnik news??? :?:

LancairDriver - 8-5-2022 at 12:29 AM

Post your proof of your statement of JZ lying here, there may be others interested. And I stand by the accuracy of the article posted. You have a problem with that?

SFandH - 8-5-2022 at 08:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

anyone notice driver's source for this juicy thread? sputnik news??? :?:

From Sputnik's website:

"Sputnik HQ is located in Moscow."

"The Sputnik brand was launched on November 10, 2014, by the Russian media group Rossiya Segodnya."

From Wikipedia:

"Rossiya Segodnya is a media group owned and operated by the Russian government."

It's published in 30 languages.

I think I'll read their articles about the Ukrainian "special military operation". Russkie style propaganda.......for a change.

[Edited on 8-5-2022 by SFandH]

RFClark - 8-5-2022 at 09:34 AM

SFandH,

Back in the ‘70s Sputnik was a paper periodical published in Russian but printed and distributed from Finland. It was CCCP propaganda! I learned to read Russian from it!

So it seems Putin brought back something else from his time at the “All Russia Insurance building” (KGB HQ in Moscow)!

BajaRat - 8-6-2022 at 11:32 AM

; )
The Palm Tree is the only missing irrelevant argument

bajatrailrider - 8-6-2022 at 06:14 PM

While your on Abortion why not add. How many feet the water is sinking with palm trees. Moving for US any time soon ? nut cases here :?:

surabi - 8-7-2022 at 10:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by willardguy

Surabi pleeeese don't pander to this effin' jackazz....its just not worth it :no:

You're right. I try to have a dialogue to help people understand, but these kind of people are firmly convinced that their personal opinions and beliefs are the equivalent of facts.

As the judge said to Alex Jones. "Yes, you believe everything you say is true, but it isn't," Judge Gamble said. "Your beliefs do not make something true. That is what we're doing here. Just because you claim to believe something is true does not make it true."

What's astounding is that any adult needs to have this pointed out to them. They're like 3 year olds.

[Edited on 8-8-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 8-8-2022 by surabi]

[Edited on 8-8-2022 by surabi]

BajaRat - 8-8-2022 at 01:50 PM

Wow,
Maybe you could rename this thread
People and their opinions living rent free in your head
Seems like a lot of Nomads wouldn’t enjoy a cold beverage together
You do You , Just don’t do me without my permission
Lionel :cool:

gnukid - 8-10-2022 at 06:06 AM

You love to publicize whatever bolsters your point of view, without context.

Says the Pot calling the kettle black...

Ateo - 8-10-2022 at 08:25 AM

Surabi.....nice work. :bounce:

bajatrailrider - 8-10-2022 at 08:34 AM

So now the blow hards moving to covid :bounce:

Why not let the water palm tree post Merge? :light:

Meanwhile, back on topic

pauldavidmena - 8-10-2022 at 03:08 PM

So... Moving from the US anytime soon?

Ateo - 8-10-2022 at 03:24 PM

I will be moving to Mazatlan soon, not permanently but for nice little bursts!

AKgringo - 8-10-2022 at 03:43 PM

I will be moving to Mazatlan soon, not permanently but for nice little bursts!

Here is a tip to help you fit in to your new chosen community......when your local restaurant brings you a platter of fish tacos, do not ask for a bottle of ketchup! :no:

[Edited on 8-10-2022 by AKgringo]

SFandH - 8-10-2022 at 04:45 PM

I will be moving to Mazatlan soon, not permanently but for nice little bursts!

What break are you going to surf?

BajaRat - 8-11-2022 at 09:57 AM

I will be moving to Mazatlan soon, not permanently but for nice little bursts!

What break are you going to surf?

Sounds great Ateo. You have to check out Isla Piedra across the harbor main channel.
SFandH have you surfed there ?
Lionel :cool:

SFandH - 8-11-2022 at 02:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat

I will be moving to Mazatlan soon, not permanently but for nice little bursts!

What break are you going to surf?

Sounds great Ateo. You have to check out Isla Piedra across the harbor main channel.
SFandH have you surfed there ?
Lionel :cool:

No, I just drove through it twice, going south and coming back. Never surfed the mainland, but I did visit here:

[Edited on 8-11-2022 by SFandH]

100_1816.gif - 40kB

SFandH - 8-11-2022 at 02:36 PM

:lol:

you're a swell guy.

chippy - 8-11-2022 at 02:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat

I will be moving to Mazatlan soon, not permanently but for nice little bursts!

What break are you going to surf?

Sounds great Ateo. You have to check out Isla Piedra across the harbor main channel.
SFandH have you surfed there ?
Lionel :cool:

No, I just drove through it twice, going south and coming back. Never surfed the mainland.

There are some great left point breaks north of Maz.

Lee - 8-12-2022 at 09:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by gnukid

We are confronting a manipulation and corruption of language, word definitions and meaning, whose intent is to make truth malleable, confusing and chaotic, leading to broad political infighting.

Evidence of this censorship and corruption of truth exist everywhere in mass media and social media, resulting in some people referring to political "fact check" as a source reference while fact checks merely reference themselves as a source to censor the truth, while they are in fact an opinion.
[Edited on 8-12-2022 by gnukid]

Rantings of a narcissist paranoid. Misinformation for 2 years.

Try to write about Baja, Paul. You demonstrate there are nuts living in La Paz.

No conspiracy in La Paz, is there? Your info comes from what you read and believe and it's apparent you believe everything.

Carry on. :lol:

LancairDriver - 8-12-2022 at 10:14 AM

Amazing to see a simple question directed to Baja part or full time occupants opinion of a Mexican news article about natives opinions of N. Americanos. The subject was steered to abortion, Covid, and of course race etc. etc. resulting in an amazing 4,000+ responses. It has evolved into the normal nasty, sarcastic, childish, posts by the usual suspects attacking each other’s supposed fake internet findings. Never a dull moment on the forum.

mtgoat666 - 8-12-2022 at 11:19 AM