BajaNomad - GPS app or device

GPS app or device

volcano3 - 11-16-2023 at 11:20 AM

What affordable app or devices are best for navigating obscure roads in Baja? We are in our 70’s, so not doing serious off-roading, but more poking around on dirt roads in the Sierra de La Laguna, and the Sierra La Trinidad. No phone signal, older 4 -Runner, adventure enthusiasts

Jack Swords - 11-16-2023 at 12:16 PM

Been all over Baja on dirt roads, Know Sierra de la Laguna well and nearby areas. We use Google Earth offline, by previously visiting intended areas on Google Earth and caching (saving) it. Then you can access the saved areas offline. Scan in and out on areas so you have saved close and distant views. GE will know where you are offline.
Save the images you want when offline. Google using Earth offline for more info.

chippy - 11-16-2023 at 12:44 PM

Get a benchmark Baja Ca. atlas (paper) and back it up with the app from avenza. E32 app is also good.

David K - 11-16-2023 at 05:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chippy

Get a benchmark Baja Ca. atlas (paper) and back it up with the app from avenza. E32 app is also good.

The 2023 (2nd Edition) Benchmark Baja Atlas ($26.95): https://www.benchmarkmaps.com/product/baja-california-road-r...

The 2023 Avenza/ Benchmark Baja Atlas App ($19.99): https://store.avenza.com/products/baja-california-atlas-land...

Discounted 2021 (1st Edition, second pressing) Benchmark Baja Atlas ($20.00): https://www.bajabound.com/baja-atlas

PaulW - 11-17-2023 at 08:55 AM

FYI
Got my 2nd edition and it says 2024 not 2023

Benchmark link also says: 2nd edition, 2024. ISBN: 9781734315059
Map Scales: Landscape Maps 1:300,000 Recreation Maps 1:1,000,000 La Paz & Los Cabos Recreation Maps 1:150,000

Of course it was released and printed in 2023.

PaulW - 11-17-2023 at 09:17 AM

Volcano
I second the recommendation for Google maps with preloaded with your choice of maps using its off- line feature. If your vehicle is compatible with Carplay view the off- line maps on your nav screen by way of your iPhone. Your older Toyota probably won’t work with carplay.
For sure Google maps will display on your tablet/ iPhone/Android phone. Anywhere you go.

Just be aware that the back country roads on Google maps are limited compared to the Benchmark maps when displayed on your tablet/phone using Avenza app. Also Benchmark paper map or book form – your choice.

wilderone - 11-18-2023 at 09:28 AM

Do you not have a paper map or have you found paper maps inadequate? Just asking because IMO the abovementioned Baja Atlas is all you'd need. Plenty for the adventure enthusiast. Bring a shovel.

HeyMulegeScott - 11-18-2023 at 12:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wilderone

Do you not have a paper map or have you found paper maps inadequate? Just asking because IMO the abovementioned Baja Atlas is all you'd need. Plenty for the adventure enthusiast. Bring a shovel.

I have the Baja Atlas and National Geographic paper maps they are not detailed enough for off-road and hiking.

I use Gaia GPS app on my phone and can get detailed maps for offline. It is really handy to record your tracks as your going especially handy when you are out hiking and can use it to track back to your vehicle.

I also take my Garmin Inreach for similar purposes and offgrid communication. It's maps aren't that great however.

volcano3 - 11-19-2023 at 12:25 AM

Yes, have always used the Baja Atlas. Getting the Benchmark as suggested. But wanting to try satellite link up, as dirt tracks, arroyos criss crossing do not compute on paper maps. Specifically want todo the complete route from route 1 to Todos Santos on the Los Naranjas rd. this winter. The road choices on the west side of the pass look complex. Paper maps have been no help as well in trying to locate the route to Rancho La Trinidad from the southeast. (East Cape)
Thankyou for all the great suggestions.

[Edited on 11-19-2023 by volcano3]

David K - 11-19-2023 at 07:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by volcano3

Yes, have always used the Baja Atlas. Getting the Benchmark as suggested. But wanting to try satellite link up, as dirt tracks, arroyos criss crossing do not compute on paper maps. Specifically want todo the complete route from route 1 to Todos Santos on the Los Naranjas rd. this winter. The road choices on the west side of the pass look complex. Paper maps have been no help as well in trying to locate the route to Rancho La Trinidad from the southeast. (East Cape)
Thankyou for all the great suggestions.

[Edited on 11-19-2023 by volcano3]

The Avenza App for your phone or tablet gives you the brand new Benchmark map with a bulls-eye over your location, using satellites. NO CELL SERVICE NEEDED. You can even create tracks of your trip. But, the best part is seeing where you are compared to what road you are seeking to be on.

See my 2022 Mission Santa María trip report using the Avenza App. I took a screen shot of the track going in and back out from the mission valley...

[Edited on 11-19-2023 by David K]

Is The Los Naranjos road passable?

AKgringo - 11-19-2023 at 08:51 AM

I tried that route last year and found a section on the west slope that was completely collapsed. It was an extremely steep cliff area that would be hazardous to walk a mountain bike across.

It was at about 26 kilometers from hwy 1. I had tried to find the road from the Todos Santos side the day before, and I think I found the right route, but it was not recognizable as a road through the drainage areas.

It has been a year, but unless a major commitment with construction equipment has been undertaken, that section of road is gone!

I had to turn around twice searching for the connection, but I still enjoyed the drive!

David K - 11-19-2023 at 10:13 AM

It may be the worse designed road route on the peninsula!

volcano3 - 11-19-2023 at 01:02 PM

Ak…. Last year I believe in Feb. we did from route 1 to the top of the pass. It looked like the folks that lived up there were using the road from the pass on down the west side, but we turned around there…. It was a long day to return to our homes an hour south of La Ribera.

AKgringo - 11-19-2023 at 03:36 PM

I hope you are right. I posted a question about the road conditions about six months ago, but got no response from anyone who had successfully driven it post "Kay".

Even last October the road from the east side had been opened, and was still in the process of being re-graded. the first half of the drive was 2wd well past the summit.

The road from the west side had been worked on also, but only to the base of the mountain range.

volcano3 - 11-19-2023 at 05:51 PM

We only used the 2wd.. guess we will find out this winter.

AKgringo - 11-19-2023 at 06:33 PM

I need to return to La Paz sometime soon to see a dentist I have been using for the last ten years. I may make a trip down to drive that road again, even if it turns out to be a dead end. My dog and I always find a nice place to hang out and listen to cow bells all night!

If you get there first, let me know what you find. You may want to check out the dirt road that runs east from hwy 1 towards Cabo Pulmo. Nothing special on that route, but I prefer back roads over pavement when I am not in a hurry.

4x4abc - 11-20-2023 at 03:03 PM

in terms of apps on your phone or tablet - nothing neats GaiaGPS with a subscription of Baja government topo maps (INEGI)
I map Baja professionally and have 5 or 6 apps loaded on my phone
GaiaGPS with INEGI topos beats them all hands down.

The topos need to be preloaded when you have wifi - they work flawlessly when offline

none of the tools will tell you anything about current road conditions
on occasion you may have to turn around when the road gets too bad

the latest sat images show Los Naranjos Road in good condition

https://www.facebook.com/groups/651595359982880

chippy - 11-20-2023 at 03:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

in terms of apps on your phone or tablet - nothing neats GaiaGPS with a subscription of Baja government topo maps (INEGI)
I map Baja professionally and have 5 or 6 apps loaded on my phone
GaiaGPS with INEGI topos beats them all hands down.

The topos need to be preloaded when you have wifi - they work flawlessly when offline

none of the tools will tell you anything about current road conditions
on occasion you may have to turn around when the road gets too bad

the latest sat images show Los Naranjos Road in good condition

https://www.facebook.com/groups/651595359982880

When using gaia do you use the inegi maps only or a combo?
Thanks for any reply.

pacificobob - 11-20-2023 at 05:33 PM

Love gaia. Always have paper maps .

4x4abc - 11-20-2023 at 06:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chippy

When using gaia do you use the inegi maps only or a combo?
Thanks for any reply.

I only use only the INEGI maps
they have the best detail of all maps on the market

see the differences of available apps here:
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10161355156347281&se...

GaiaGPS with both Mapbox maps and GaiaGPS topo maps activated. Neither map provides any information. No road, no houses, no names of mountains or Arroyos.

GaiaGPS with INEGI topos activated. Good detail, only limited by your phone's
or tablet's or dash display screen size

Avenza app with Benchmark Maps "Baja California Atlas" downloaded. In print this atlas is pretty helpful for a Baja overview - but it disappoints in detail on your device. You can't even get to the same zoom level as the 2 screen shots above.

4x4abc - 11-20-2023 at 07:02 PM

parallel I run Google Earth and a separate set of INEGI topos on my laptop
mainly for the larger display
http://www.baja101.com/Baja-Topos.html

INEGI full.jpg - 264kB

mtgoat666 - 11-20-2023 at 07:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Quote: Originally posted by chippy

When using gaia do you use the inegi maps only or a combo?
Thanks for any reply.

I only use only the INEGI maps
they have the best detail of all maps on the market

Does gaia use mapbox sat photos?

Does gaia allow you to interface with openstreetmap to save/share road/sites?

4x4abc - 11-20-2023 at 08:10 PM

could not find those features
but GaiaGPS is so loaded now that it is hard to find what's in it.

David K - 11-21-2023 at 09:58 AM

The Avenza App has the advantage of 'following you' as you travel in Baja, without any need for cell service. The zoom level also has an advantage over the Benchmark book as it is lit and gives you a close look without needing a magnifying glass or reading glasses.

The detail or map scale is not as good as Inegi Topos, true. It sure will show you if you are on the right road or which fork to take.

I wish I had it in 2017, traveling south from Mission San Luis Gonzaga! While I did get to the La Pasión/ Dolores-2 mission that day, I didn't use the road I had intended to. I followed the most worn or recent tracks, which is usually a good choice. Perhaps the road I took was better than the maybe shorter route across the big arroyo of La Pasión (San Pedro on this map)?

I took the left fork at El Caporal, and the next fork after, rather than the right... and on this AAA map, showing my driving the two days before arriving at your home, I drew in the the road that made that big northward loop. Arroyos point to the mission sites.

Photos on this page of my trip story: https://vivabaja.com/p817/2/

BeachSeeker - 11-21-2023 at 10:30 AM

To me, offline satellite maps are a game changer for real exploration. Topo maps or the Avenza app are fine when you are just trying to get to towns or fairly known areas. However, there is significant value in satellite maps when going to more remote areas.

I've used GaiaGPS successfully in the past, but downloading offline maps has always been painfully slow. Like leave your phone on all night, on wifi, charging, just to download a few sections of satellite maps. Then recently the app completely stopped downloading offline maps. I've deleted and reinstalled, nothing works. I messaged tech support, but I don't think the app is really supported anymore.

This last trip I switched to OnX Offroad. There are significantly less map options, but all I need is satellite. Downloads are super fast, and easy. Apple CarPlay support is good. I'm a big fan.

4x4abc - 11-21-2023 at 10:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

I wish I had it in 2017, traveling south from Mission San Luis Gonzaga! While I did get to the La Pasión/ Dolores-2 mission that day, I didn't use the road I had intended to. I followed the most worn or recent tracks, which is usually a good choice. Perhaps the road I took was better than the maybe shorter route across the big arroyo of La Pasión (San Pedro on this map)?

I took the left fork at El Caporal, and the next fork after, rather than the right... and on this AAA map, showing my driving the two days before arriving at your home, I drew in the the road that made that big northward loop. Arroyos point to the mission sites.

The road at Rancho El Caporal is a good choice!
It has a much better Baja feel than the new wide government roads.

The "danger" of these new wide dirt highways the government built is that the locals no longer use the extensive historic road network.
By not using them any longer they fall into disrepair and become impassable.
We are losing access to the old Baja.
We are losing access to meeting the wonderful local people as the new roads are all designed to bypass the Ranchos.

That also creates a problem for the very detailed INEGI topos.
Many of the roads shown are impassable by now.

That also means that all map sources fall short of helping you to explore Baja.
I constantly run into dead ends. Thats is in addition to the Rancho created road blocks (the locals are no longer happy to see visitors).

Bottom line - you'll have to improvise and you may not get to where you wanted to go.

David K - 11-21-2023 at 02:34 PM

Excellent advice, Harald! :light:

4x4abc - 11-27-2023 at 08:41 PM

update to Los Narajos road

a friend just came back from driving it
he descrided it as hard core off road
kinda manageable east to west
impossible west to east

HeyMulegeScott - 11-28-2023 at 04:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

Quote: Originally posted by chippy

When using gaia do you use the inegi maps only or a combo?
Thanks for any reply.

I only use only the INEGI maps
they have the best detail of all maps on the market

Does gaia use mapbox sat photos?

Does gaia allow you to interface with openstreetmap to save/share road/sites?

Gaia uses Mapbox and Openstreet Map for sat with labels. It's a premium subscription along with the Mexican Topo layer. You can export any of your saved data and also do a public share like this one from today - https://www.gaiagps.com/public/Pgpd6wNcBLFh9rRaGdAXVmst/?lay...

AKgringo - 11-28-2023 at 05:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc

update to Los Narajos road

a friend just came back from driving it
he descrided it as hard core off road
kinda manageable east to west
impossible west to east

Thanks for the update Harald! Did your friend actually drive the length of the road from the east, or turn around at the impossible area on the west slope?

4x4abc - 11-28-2023 at 07:57 PM

my friend drove from east to west
it was "hairy" in a couple of spots he said
coming from him means it was dangerous

volcano3 - 12-2-2023 at 04:06 PM

Ok, same topic, different question. We are in the process of starting to download several of these apps. So far, Gaia, and google earth offline. Will move on to Avenza next. Took a drive to experiment and start learning the functioning.
It appears that Gaia will not function on an iPad that does not have built in gps. Will this be the case with Avenza as well ? We have an iPhone with the gps ap, but we’re hoping to use our iPad for the larger map capability.

PaulW - 12-2-2023 at 04:30 PM

Yes, your device must have an internal GPS
Get an Ipad with GPS or get a GPS dongle for your old Ipad.

AKgringo - 12-2-2023 at 04:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Yes, your device must have an internal GPS
Get an Ipad with GPS or get a GPS dongle for your old Ipad.

I have a Garmin GPS unit. Would it be possible to plug it into a tablet with the same USB cord that iI use to plug it into my laptop and use the apps?

What is a "dongle"?

I never heard of a Dongle before......

AKgringo - 12-2-2023 at 05:16 PM

But I just went down a Search Engine rabbit hole looking for one! I will have to go back and compare the offerings and conflicting reports. There sure is a wide price range for the devices, and I found that there may be a way to use my Android phone to provide GPS to a Chromebook I was thinking of using.

Even though I specifically searched for Chromebook devices, some of the ones that are presenting themselves clearly state they are for windows applications.

Getting a brief glimpse of what's out there tells mee that trying to use my Garmin would probably be a wasted effort.

[Edited on 12-3-2023 by AKgringo]

volcano3 - 12-2-2023 at 05:16 PM

So the dongle runs in the $90’s ?

AKgringo - 12-2-2023 at 05:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by volcano3

So the dongle runs in the $90’s ?

Some are under $20, and one device was pushing $300, but I have really not even scratched the surface of capabilities or limitations.

mtgoat666 - 12-2-2023 at 05:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

Quote: Originally posted by PaulW

Yes, your device must have an internal GPS
Get an Ipad with GPS or get a GPS dongle for your old Ipad.

I have a Garmin GPS unit. Would it be possible to plug it into a tablet with the same USB cord that iI use to plug it into my laptop and use the apps?

What is a "dongle"?

A gps receiver is what you need.

Dongle is slang for a device that attaches to computer, could apply to gps receiver or a multitude of other types of devices

Almost - 12-2-2023 at 05:49 PM

I use a garmin GPS bluetooth antenna linked to my iPad. Use Gaia currently and have used Avenza in the past. The antenna works quite well and can be placed conveniently most anywhere in the vehicle.

AKgringo - 12-2-2023 at 06:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

A gps receiver is what you need.

Dongle is slang for a device that attaches to computer, could apply to gps receiver or a multitude of other types of devices

Thanks for the clarification! My tech knowledge is at the low end of the spectrum, but I learned a bit today!

For what it is worth, I didn't search for "Dongle", but entered "GPS for Chromebook".

PaulW - 12-3-2023 at 09:11 AM

Sorry, I have been unavailable since I last posted. Here is the Dongle I was referring to
VK-162 USB GPS Dongle
Find it on Amazon for $15.97
Should work if you have a USB port.
Dongles for various applications have been around for devices for more than 30 years.
And if your device does not have an internal GPS maybe you are missing many features that modern ones have?

AKgringo - 12-3-2023 at 10:14 AM

Thanks for the feedback Paul! Does the device you are talking about need a phone signal, or does it work directly off satellites?

PaulW - 12-3-2023 at 10:29 AM

The gps device is powered from your iPad and will feed your position to it. No cellular connection is required. Thus no phone signal is necessary.
My tablet (Android) has no phone connection, and it works great with its internal GPS. Works in the boondocks with no cellular connection. All my various maps I have loaded shows me where I am at and track my travels.